Freshman Math Placement

[Anonymous]

Kid just finished Freshman year at Gonzaga. Completed Algebra 1 and Geometry in MCPS. Did not pass Algebra 1 placement test, so took Algebra 1 this year. Very glad- he definitely had gaps.

[Anonymous]

Mine passed school placement test for algebra, but still planning to have them review algebra over the summer and start looking at a bit of geometry in preparation for the school year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kid just finished Freshman year at Gonzaga. Completed Algebra 1 and Geometry in MCPS. Did not pass Algebra 1 placement test, so took Algebra 1 this year. Very glad- he definitely had gaps.

+2 My son re-took Algebra in 9th at Gonzaga as well. For reference, he had an A+ in advanced/honors Algebra in 8th grade. It really improved his math skills and it was the right call (in retrospect). He is going into 11th now and is consistently getting a 95 in honors math.

[Anonymous]

I think that for most kids the school placement is fine and it will give them more time to get a good foundation. There was another poster in a different thread whose child is a math kid and in that situation I would investigate further and see whether it's actually the appropriate placement.

A kid like that poster's child can learn any material in "gaps" very quickly so placement should take ability and motivation into account more.

The placement tests are not rocket science. At DC's Big 3 they are designed to cover a breadth of material rather than to show critical thinking. The placement is more flexible at DC's school than just "pass" or "not pass" as it should be.

[Anonymous]

Not sure if anyone else said this... but honors classes will look better on a college transcript than "regular" non accelerated classes. Chances are if your child was placed in Algebra they will not be placed in honors geometry.

Also private schools may not have the same math program as public. I know the math program at my children's school is very different. That being said talk to the department head and say you are concerned that your child will be bored but you defer to what they think based on the placement test. Then ask how they scored relative to classmates.

[Anonymous]

Also I fought with the school over math placement in 8th grade. The principal was a jerk. I paid a coach to reach him math. He didn't need the coach and actually went ahead in course work and after finishing 4 or 5 units and acing the tests his teacher moved him up to the higher level class without telling the principal or us. My son has now been in accelerated math in 9th and 10th and getting A's. The kids that were placed in accelerated in 8th either were not invited in 9th or dropped it. Despite being right I now have a reputation for being "that mom" among middle school administration. I am also seen to have a big mouth because I talk about the situation to parents whose kids have similar problems. Part of it is he's twice gifted with dysgraphia and his learning plan and test scores were disregarded. They focused on his freaking handwriting. Being viewed as the big mouth has major disadvantages like I'm not invited to be on committees. Just be careful what you say and who you say it to. Just because you pay full tuition and generously donate to the school doesn't automatically mean your opinion matters at many private schools (or at least that is my experience).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not sure if anyone else said this... but honors classes will look better on a college transcript than "regular" non accelerated classes. Chances are if your child was placed in Algebra they will not be placed in honors geometry.

Also private schools may not have the same math program as public. I know the math program at my children's school is very different. That being said talk to the department head and say you are concerned that your child will be bored but you defer to what they think based on the placement test. Then ask how they scored relative to classmates.

PP with kid who didn’t pass Algebra 1 test at Gonzaga. He was placed in Honors Algebra 1. Did well and will continue with Honors in Geometry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also I fought with the school over math placement in 8th grade. The principal was a jerk. I paid a coach to reach him math. He didn't need the coach and actually went ahead in course work and after finishing 4 or 5 units and acing the tests his teacher moved him up to the higher level class without telling the principal or us. My son has now been in accelerated math in 9th and 10th and getting A's. The kids that were placed in accelerated in 8th either were not invited in 9th or dropped it. Despite being right I now have a reputation for being "that mom" among middle school administration. I am also seen to have a big mouth because I talk about the situation to parents whose kids have similar problems. Part of it is he's twice gifted with dysgraphia and his learning plan and test scores were disregarded. They focused on his freaking handwriting. Being viewed as the big mouth has major disadvantages like I'm not invited to be on committees. Just be careful what you say and who you say it to. Just because you pay full tuition and generously donate to the school doesn't automatically mean your opinion matters at many private schools (or at least that is my experience).

Makes sense - you sound annoying.

[Anonymous]

In our case, kid completed Algebra and Geometry in DCPS middle school and the private school placed him in honors Algebra I/Geometry as a freshmen. I'm okay with this, as the grade inflation at DCPS is out of hand, so an "A" can mean anything my mastery to a vague understanding of the material.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In our case, kid completed Algebra and Geometry in DCPS middle school and the private school placed him in honors Algebra I/Geometry as a freshmen. I'm okay with this, as the grade inflation at DCPS is out of hand, so an "A" can mean anything my mastery to a vague understanding of the material.

I’m very curious to see how this class goes. My child only took algebra in 8th and was placed in the honors algebra/geometry for the fall too. Sounds like it will be a mix of people and I’m wondering if she should start learning geometry this summer.

[Anonymous]

If you want to be able to dictate what classes (and levels) your kid can and can't take, you should stick with public. In my experience, the popular DC Catholics don't like to accelerate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you want to be able to dictate what classes (and levels) your kid can and can't take, you should stick with public. In my experience, the popular DC Catholics don't like to accelerate.

It depends on the math placement, HSPT and middle school grades. My son was in algebra 1 for 8th grade. He did well on the HSPT and the math placement so Gonzaga placed him Geometry/Pre-Calc for 9th, Calc AB for 10th. He just wrapped up Calc BC for 11th, skipping Alegbra 2 altogother. He didn't get the best test grades in the class but held his own (and not the worst) and was recommended for Linear senior yr. Accerated math tracks are carefully assigned to prevent failure and affect confidence. Accelated programs have many moving parts.

And I agree, anyone parent who *makes strong suggestions* to a school regarding what classes they deem fit for their child won't get very far in some private schools. Stick with public.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In our case, kid completed Algebra and Geometry in DCPS middle school and the private school placed him in honors Algebra I/Geometry as a freshmen. I'm okay with this, as the grade inflation at DCPS is out of hand, so an "A" can mean anything my mastery to a vague understanding of the material.

I’m very curious to see how this class goes. My child only took algebra in 8th and was placed in the honors algebra/geometry for the fall too. Sounds like it will be a mix of people and I’m wondering if she should start learning geometry this summer.

If this is the “principles of algebra and geometry” course at ncs here is the deal:

Kids who are weak in math coming from the MS or kids new to 9th who did poorly on the placement test. It usually is between 9-15 students, so small. This course was implemented as the weaker algebra students were not successful in geometry - either flat out failing it or killing themselves for a low grade (C or B) in the non-accelerated geometry. It covers all the geometry topics, but they do not make the kids do the really challenging problems or do proofs. They are prepared with enough geometry to be successful on ACT/SAT and in future math courses. Since the students have all seen algebra before (a requirement for NCS), this isn’t a full algebra course, but really remediates the basic core topics they need for success in algebra 2 and beyond - factoring, graphing lines, writing equations for lines, solving systems of equations, re-expressing formulas, dissecting word problems etc.

The student complete the course with a decent grade that won’t kill their GPA, didn’t have to overstretch themselves so they can spend adequate time on other things like physics and the intense writing for English and western civ, and then are placed into traditional algebra 2 as a sophomore allowing them to reach calculus senior year. Traditional algebra 2 is a better fit where they can be successful for this cohort compared to geometry for a few reasons:

They are a year older, more adjusted to the expectations of upper school

Geometry in 9th is either traditional geometry (still hard with proofs) or accelerated geometry (top 15-20ish kids). So that means in traditional geometry there are still some very strong students and the pace is fast. For tenth grade the lower kids from geometry and the kids from principles make up the algebra 2 class, the top kids from geometry and the lower kids from accelerated geometry move to accelerated algebra 2, and the top kids from accelerated geo move to honors algebra 2 with the gifted incoming freshmen who are permitted to skip geometry.

[Anonymous]

Very thorough explanation. Thanks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In our case, kid completed Algebra and Geometry in DCPS middle school and the private school placed him in honors Algebra I/Geometry as a freshmen. I'm okay with this, as the grade inflation at DCPS is out of hand, so an "A" can mean anything my mastery to a vague understanding of the material.

I’m very curious to see how this class goes. My child only took algebra in 8th and was placed in the honors algebra/geometry for the fall too. Sounds like it will be a mix of people and I’m wondering if she should start learning geometry this summer.

If this is the “principles of algebra and geometry” course at ncs here is the deal:

Kids who are weak in math coming from the MS or kids new to 9th who did poorly on the placement test. It usually is between 9-15 students, so small. This course was implemented as the weaker algebra students were not successful in geometry - either flat out failing it or killing themselves for a low grade (C or B) in the non-accelerated geometry. It covers all the geometry topics, but they do not make the kids do the really challenging problems or do proofs. They are prepared with enough geometry to be successful on ACT/SAT and in future math courses. Since the students have all seen algebra before (a requirement for NCS), this isn’t a full algebra course, but really remediates the basic core topics they need for success in algebra 2 and beyond - factoring, graphing lines, writing equations for lines, solving systems of equations, re-expressing formulas, dissecting word problems etc.

The student complete the course with a decent grade that won’t kill their GPA, didn’t have to overstretch themselves so they can spend adequate time on other things like physics and the intense writing for English and western civ, and then are placed into traditional algebra 2 as a sophomore allowing them to reach calculus senior year. Traditional algebra 2 is a better fit where they can be successful for this cohort compared to geometry for a few reasons:

They are a year older, more adjusted to the expectations of upper school

Geometry in 9th is either traditional geometry (still hard with proofs) or accelerated geometry (top 15-20ish kids). So that means in traditional geometry there are still some very strong students and the pace is fast. For tenth grade the lower kids from geometry and the kids from principles make up the algebra 2 class, the top kids from geometry and the lower kids from accelerated geometry move to accelerated algebra 2, and the top kids from accelerated geo move to honors algebra 2 with the gifted incoming freshmen who are permitted to skip geometry.

Aren’t most girls at NCS in Algebra II freshmen year? The concepts you are describing from Algebra I and geometry are very basic. Is it even allowed to be called geometry without proofs? Seems like most good students had geometry with proofst in middle school? I wouldn’t describe those type of kids as gifted, just average smart. Is NCS rigor just in other courses and not math?