Word of caution for aspiring CS majors

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get a liberal arts degree (economics and something soft) from the highest ranked school you can.

Recruiting for finance, consulting, and corporate /strategy roles are much much easier if you are in English and economics major coming from Rice or Vanderbilt or Emory compared to CS at Purdue…..

Ask around people!!!

Unless you have good connections/networking, that will not help.

DS will graduate from an Ivy, commencement is today, and he is still looking for for a job, as most of his friends who don't have connections. Those with connections have good jobs.

Not entirely true, connected people do have it easy but good students do get jobs through college career fairs or sending lots of applications.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's good that they're not expanding the seats. My English major found a good high-paying job quite easily out of school, but I know there are not clearly established paths for those majors as there are (or at least used to be) for CS majors.

Please share firm and $.

I won't name the firm but it's a large consulting firm with quantitative focus. Salary is around $90k. I agree with the advice to go to the best school you can get into, do as well as you can in that school, and don't accept the notion that you are limited by your major. My English major also took math, econ, government, etc, so firms knew she could do the work.

Great advice.
And hustle. Wherever you are.
I’ve already help DS research the clubs/teams to join at Ivy - will be freshman in fall.

The parenting job doesn’t end once they get in to a top college or program. It shifts and changes. Now they need life & career advice. Show them where to look, questions to ask, clubs to join, people to meet.

I know this is much harder with introverts….

Helicopter parenting never ends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why we need entrepreneurs to create more of the jobs your kids want.

Being an entrepreneur is too hard for most people. I say this as an owner with 50 employees and $26M in sales last year. People want the success without the risk and pain. Honestly, most people are basic and want a steady paycheck for minimal effort.

Entrepreneurship isn't for straight shooters.

[Anonymous]

Just returned from a college reunion, and my friends' kids who majored in CS and graduated last year and this year are all un- or under-employed. It seems pretty obvious to me that low-level CS jobs are the first to be gobbled up by AI. If you go to a top school, it truly does not matter what you major in. Most of those kids who want top jobs in tech, finance, consulting will get them. Majoring in something skill-based is more important if you attend even a slightly lower-ranked school. This is why people work so hard to secure spots in the Ivy-plus schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just returned from a college reunion, and my friends' kids who majored in CS and graduated last year and this year are all un- or under-employed. It seems pretty obvious to me that low-level CS jobs are the first to be gobbled up by AI. If you go to a top school, it truly does not matter what you major in. Most of those kids who want top jobs in tech, finance, consulting will get them. Majoring in something skill-based is more important if you attend even a slightly lower-ranked school. This is why people work so hard to secure spots in the Ivy-plus schools.

Most low level IT jobs have been offshored for a while. But, yea, most grads from T20 CS schools will be ok. Maybe not the $150K starting salary with $80K bonus, ok, but they will get something decent that pays more than most humanities majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are English majors in high demand?

Actually, yes. The future is bright for humanities majors.

For low paying jobs.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/14/here-are-college-majors-with-the-highest-and-lowest-rate-of-return.html


College majors with the highest and lowest return

A recent study published in the American Educational Research Journal found that engineering and computer science majors provide the highest returns in lifetime earnings, followed by business, health, and math and science majors. Education and humanities majors and arts majors had the lowest returns of the 10 fields of study considered.

STEM, health and business majors are among the highest-paying, leading to average annual wages that are higher at the entry level and significantly greater over the course of a career compared with liberal arts and humanities majors.

Adjusted for college rank?

Anthro majors at Dartmouth do not equal anthro majors at UMD

sure, but even so, an anthro major at Dartmouth, is not going to have an easy time finding a job compared to a CS or business major from a T50.

I almost minored in anthro; I think it's a very interesting field, but hard to find a good paying job.

I think one of the most popular majors at Dartmouth is anthropology and a lot of kids get jobs at investment banks. It’s a known thing there….

Outcome for English major at Dartmouth is not good at all
https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?182670-Dartmouth-College&fos_code=2301&fos_credential=3
$55730

Lower than the median for the Catholic University of America at $76452.
Yikes.

I suspect the anthropology story is false or it's a rare weird tradition developed at Dartmouth for that particular major.

I'd like to see the ^PP's Anthro stats from Dartmouth.

https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/dartmouth-college/academic-life/academic-majors/social-sciences/anthropology/

How Much Do Anthropology Graduates from Dartmouth Make?
$44,153 Bachelor's Median Salary

https://www.collegefactual.com/majors/social-sciences/anthropology/rankings/most-focused/bachelors-degrees/new-england/new-hampshire/

Across New Hampshire, there were 143 anthropology graduates with average earnings and debt of $34,339 and $21,176 respectively. At the bachelor’s degree level specifically, there were 143 anthropology graduates with average earnings and debt of $40,795 and $24,203 respectively.

$24K in debt with a salary lower than the median income of the US, which includes not college educated? That's a really bad ROI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just returned from a college reunion, and my friends' kids who majored in CS and graduated last year and this year are all un- or under-employed. It seems pretty obvious to me that low-level CS jobs are the first to be gobbled up by AI. If you go to a top school, it truly does not matter what you major in. Most of those kids who want top jobs in tech, finance, consulting will get them. Majoring in something skill-based is more important if you attend even a slightly lower-ranked school. This is why people work so hard to secure spots in the Ivy-plus schools.

Again the data doesn't agree with your imagination.

Harvard english major 4 year out median salary = $49,675
https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?166027-Harvard-University&fos_code=2301&fos_credential=3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are English majors in high demand?

Actually, yes. The future is bright for humanities majors.

For low paying jobs.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/14/here-are-college-majors-with-the-highest-and-lowest-rate-of-return.html


College majors with the highest and lowest return

A recent study published in the American Educational Research Journal found that engineering and computer science majors provide the highest returns in lifetime earnings, followed by business, health, and math and science majors. Education and humanities majors and arts majors had the lowest returns of the 10 fields of study considered.

STEM, health and business majors are among the highest-paying, leading to average annual wages that are higher at the entry level and significantly greater over the course of a career compared with liberal arts and humanities majors.

Adjusted for college rank?

Anthro majors at Dartmouth do not equal anthro majors at UMD

sure, but even so, an anthro major at Dartmouth, is not going to have an easy time finding a job compared to a CS or business major from a T50.

I almost minored in anthro; I think it's a very interesting field, but hard to find a good paying job.

I think one of the most popular majors at Dartmouth is anthropology and a lot of kids get jobs at investment banks. It’s a known thing there….

Outcome for English major at Dartmouth is not good at all
https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?182670-Dartmouth-College&fos_code=2301&fos_credential=3
$55730

Lower than the median for the Catholic University of America at $76452.
Yikes.

I suspect the anthropology story is false or it's a rare weird tradition developed at Dartmouth for that particular major.

I'd like to see the ^PP's Anthro stats from Dartmouth.

https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/dartmouth-college/academic-life/academic-majors/social-sciences/anthropology/

How Much Do Anthropology Graduates from Dartmouth Make?
$44,153 Bachelor's Median Salary

https://www.collegefactual.com/majors/social-sciences/anthropology/rankings/most-focused/bachelors-degrees/new-england/new-hampshire/

Across New Hampshire, there were 143 anthropology graduates with average earnings and debt of $34,339 and $21,176 respectively. At the bachelor’s degree level specifically, there were 143 anthropology graduates with average earnings and debt of $40,795 and $24,203 respectively.

$24K in debt with a salary lower than the median income of the US, which includes not college educated? That's a really bad ROI.

Who's spreading the fake news?
I suspect the prestige whores.

I don't know about others, but I would definitely go with the data and information.

[Anonymous]

I dont know where all the CS grads are. DoD contractors are hiring and cant get enough good candidates. All the good ones are making bank at amazon etc but we need citizens who are ok with under $90k for first job but can also actually do things and didnt sleep through their CS and math classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just returned from a college reunion, and my friends' kids who majored in CS and graduated last year and this year are all un- or under-employed. It seems pretty obvious to me that low-level CS jobs are the first to be gobbled up by AI. If you go to a top school, it truly does not matter what you major in. Most of those kids who want top jobs in tech, finance, consulting will get them. Majoring in something skill-based is more important if you attend even a slightly lower-ranked school. This is why people work so hard to secure spots in the Ivy-plus schools.

Again the data doesn't agree with your imagination.

Harvard english major 4 year out median salary = $49,675
https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?166027-Harvard-University&fos_code=2301&fos_credential=3

^PP was probably an English major who doesn't understand statistics, and that anecdata <> statistical data.

This is from 2023, but you get the idea: even some MBA grads from Harvard and Stanford are having a hard time finding a job. Probably worse now in 2024.

https://poetsandquants.com/2024/01/17/many-2023-mba-grads-still-struggling-to-find-jobs/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why we need entrepreneurs to create more of the jobs your kids want.

Being an entrepreneur is too hard for most people. I say this as an owner with 50 employees and $26M in sales last year. People want the success without the risk and pain. Honestly, most people are basic and want a steady paycheck for minimal effort.

Sounds like those basic folks are doing something for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are English majors in high demand?

Actually, yes. The future is bright for humanities majors.

For low paying jobs.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/14/here-are-college-majors-with-the-highest-and-lowest-rate-of-return.html


College majors with the highest and lowest return

A recent study published in the American Educational Research Journal found that engineering and computer science majors provide the highest returns in lifetime earnings, followed by business, health, and math and science majors. Education and humanities majors and arts majors had the lowest returns of the 10 fields of study considered.

STEM, health and business majors are among the highest-paying, leading to average annual wages that are higher at the entry level and significantly greater over the course of a career compared with liberal arts and humanities majors.

Adjusted for college rank?

Anthro majors at Dartmouth do not equal anthro majors at UMD

sure, but even so, an anthro major at Dartmouth, is not going to have an easy time finding a job compared to a CS or business major from a T50.

I almost minored in anthro; I think it's a very interesting field, but hard to find a good paying job.

I think one of the most popular majors at Dartmouth is anthropology and a lot of kids get jobs at investment banks. It’s a known thing there….

Outcome for English major at Dartmouth is not good at all
https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?182670-Dartmouth-College&fos_code=2301&fos_credential=3
$55730

Lower than the median for the Catholic University of America at $76452.
Yikes.

I suspect the anthropology story is false or it's a rare weird tradition developed at Dartmouth for that particular major.

I'd like to see the ^PP's Anthro stats from Dartmouth.

https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/dartmouth-college/academic-life/academic-majors/social-sciences/anthropology/

How Much Do Anthropology Graduates from Dartmouth Make?
$44,153 Bachelor's Median Salary

https://www.collegefactual.com/majors/social-sciences/anthropology/rankings/most-focused/bachelors-degrees/new-england/new-hampshire/

Across New Hampshire, there were 143 anthropology graduates with average earnings and debt of $34,339 and $21,176 respectively. At the bachelor’s degree level specifically, there were 143 anthropology graduates with average earnings and debt of $40,795 and $24,203 respectively.

$24K in debt with a salary lower than the median income of the US, which includes not college educated? That's a really bad ROI.

Who's spreading the fake news?
I suspect the prestige whores.

I don't know about others, but I would definitely go with the data and information.

On another college website, the most prolific spreaders of fake news are college professors and college admissions folks. Tey are trying to protect themselves and their jobs. Unethical to say the least.

That website has resorted to making up fake situations and fake posters in order to generate discussion. It's rules prohibit anyone from asserting that a post or poster is fake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I dont know where all the CS grads are. DoD contractors are hiring and cant get enough good candidates. All the good ones are making bank at amazon etc but we need citizens who are ok with under $90k for first job but can also actually do things and didnt sleep through their CS and math classes.

Are they willing to hire recent grads with no experience?

I think part of the problem is that a lot of the CS grads, especially from T20, have expectations like it's 2020 to 2022 rather than 2024. So, if they can't find that $120K starting salary with $80K signing bonus, they think that's a failure.

I know for my own kid, CS/math major at UMD (straight As so far) would take that $90K salary rather than hold out for the unicorn. But, then, they are practical like their mom. They did some interesting projects, and won an award for said project. I think CS majors cannot sit on their laurels and expect a good paying job. Like with most grads, they need to hustle, get interships, work on projects (though most majors don't require this; DC was saying how business majors were luckier in that they don't have to work on projects in the summer along with internships).

The job market is bad for most grads, not just CS majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just returned from a college reunion, and my friends' kids who majored in CS and graduated last year and this year are all un- or under-employed. It seems pretty obvious to me that low-level CS jobs are the first to be gobbled up by AI. If you go to a top school, it truly does not matter what you major in. Most of those kids who want top jobs in tech, finance, consulting will get them. Majoring in something skill-based is more important if you attend even a slightly lower-ranked school. This is why people work so hard to secure spots in the Ivy-plus schools.

Again the data doesn't agree with your imagination.

Harvard english major 4 year out median salary = $49,675
https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?166027-Harvard-University&fos_code=2301&fos_credential=3

I have no doubt the average pay is lower. Many English majors want to go into lower paying fields like journalism, teaching, etc. But I guarantee you that English majors from Harvard who want to do into finance, tech, or consulting can do so pretty easily. I know plenty of kids from T20 schools who did.

[Anonymous]

I do think the job market is pretty bad for most graduates though.