Word of caution for aspiring CS majors

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:why is DCUM assuming comp sci majors have no writing skills?
why is dcum assuming english majors have math skills?

why is dcum assuming comp sci majors have lesser social skills than english majors?

This. My CS major at an Ivy writes beautiful papers and receives solid A's in writing and other humanities classes which are easy in comparison. I wonder how many Humanities majors could do as well in the CS classes - and I'm not talking intro to CS or CS for nonmajors but the weeder classes. Good luck.

Wow you’re very proud aren’t you?

DP. Maybe, but not wrong. The myth is that folks good in STEM are always poor at reading, writing, history, and whatnot. The reality is that many good STEM students also are good at those other easier things.

That's called wishful thinking.. Along the lines of 'All jocks are idiots'. What is real is that, outside of those 'intentional' LA kids (those with grad school plans such as law) most end up in LA because they couldn't hack the more difficult majors... and 'reading, writing, history and whatnot' knowledge and skills can pretty much be acquired off the internet these days. Not so with coding or engineering.

You really have no clue what you are talking about...

That said, CS is about far far more than "coding"

Of course. If you know that, I certainly do. I specifically did not use those words because some LA idiot will pipe in and say "but, but, Computer Science is a liberal art" and we'll have to go down that pointless rabbit hole again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:why is DCUM assuming comp sci majors have no writing skills?
why is dcum assuming english majors have math skills?

why is dcum assuming comp sci majors have lesser social skills than english majors?

This. My CS major at an Ivy writes beautiful papers and receives solid A's in writing and other humanities classes which are easy in comparison. I wonder how many Humanities majors could do as well in the CS classes - and I'm not talking intro to CS or CS for nonmajors but the weeder classes. Good luck.

Wow you’re very proud aren’t you?

DP. Maybe, but not wrong. The myth is that folks good in STEM are always poor at reading, writing, history, and whatnot. The reality is that many good STEM students also are good at those other easier things.

That's called wishful thinking.. Along the lines of 'All jocks are idiots'. What is real is that, outside of those 'intentional' LA kids (those with grad school plans such as law) most end up in LA because they couldn't hack the more difficult majors... and 'reading, writing, history and whatnot' knowledge and skills can pretty much be acquired off the internet these days. Not so with coding or engineering.

You really have no clue what you are talking about...

That said, CS is about far far more than "coding"

Of course. If you know that, I certainly do. I specifically did not use those words because some LA idiot will pipe in and say "but, but, Computer Science is a liberal art" and we'll have to go down that pointless rabbit hole again.

You two can’t communicate with each other. Kind of settles the CS majors can read and write debate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid just graduated from William and Mary with a double major in CS and Math. He has a job lined up with the Federal Gov't paying about 80K. He feels very fortunate, as most of his CS friends are still looking for jobs. I agree with many of the above posters that the current problems are likely just cyclical, but its a problem right now for new CS grads. Also, the ability to show personality is a huge advantage, one which my son and his friends don't really have.

Congrats to your kid. Mine just graduated from UVA with a CS degree with 3.8 GPA and he is still looking for a job. It is very tough out there.

Thanks. Congrats to your kid as well. Mine got invited to do an internship after doing well in a competition sponsored by the gov't agency that he is now going to work for (that he wouldn't have done had it not been for the encouragement of one of CS professors). It really was very fortunate. He sent out tons of resumes (and had a GPA of 3.98), but didn't really get any other bites. But he's not the most outgoing person.

Congrats to both kids! Amazing achievers with 3.8 and 3.98 GPA! My son just completed his first year at VT, majoring in EE. It is so difficult to get As. He managed to get on the dean's list but not "dean's list with distinction".
I hope the 3.8 GPA kid will land a great job soon! He deserves it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:why is DCUM assuming comp sci majors have no writing skills?
why is dcum assuming english majors have math skills?

why is dcum assuming comp sci majors have lesser social skills than english majors?

This. My CS major at an Ivy writes beautiful papers and receives solid A's in writing and other humanities classes which are easy in comparison. I wonder how many Humanities majors could do as well in the CS classes - and I'm not talking intro to CS or CS for nonmajors but the weeder classes. Good luck.

Wow you’re very proud aren’t you?

DP. Maybe, but not wrong. The myth is that folks good in STEM are always poor at reading, writing, history, and whatnot. The reality is that many good STEM students also are good at those other easier things.

That's called wishful thinking.. Along the lines of 'All jocks are idiots'. What is real is that, outside of those 'intentional' LA kids (those with grad school plans such as law) most end up in LA because they couldn't hack the more difficult majors... and 'reading, writing, history and whatnot' knowledge and skills can pretty much be acquired off the internet these days. Not so with coding or engineering.

You really have no clue what you are talking about...

That said, CS is about far far more than "coding"

Of course. If you know that, I certainly do. I specifically did not use those words because some LA idiot will pipe in and say "but, but, Computer Science is a liberal art" and we'll have to go down that pointless rabbit hole again.

You two can’t communicate with each other. Kind of settles the CS majors can read and write debate.

The fact that you can make such an inference shows how dumb you are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just returned from a college reunion, and my friends' kids who majored in CS and graduated last year and this year are all un- or under-employed. It seems pretty obvious to me that low-level CS jobs are the first to be gobbled up by AI. If you go to a top school, it truly does not matter what you major in. Most of those kids who want top jobs in tech, finance, consulting will get them. Majoring in something skill-based is more important if you attend even a slightly lower-ranked school. This is why people work so hard to secure spots in the Ivy-plus schools.

Most low level IT jobs have been offshored for a while. But, yea, most grads from T20 CS schools will be ok. Maybe not the $150K starting salary with $80K bonus, ok, but they will get something decent that pays more than most humanities majors.

CS majors are not applying for low level IT jobs. CS is not IT.

So, what are CS majors doing? What kind of jobs are CS majors getting?

I’d love to know.

One of my brilliant friend's brilliant CS major kid didn't get any offer from any company a CS kid wants to work for. He'll be working at American Airlines. Two years ago, kids of his caliber were trying to decide between several top offers.

The landscape is very different now compared to a few years ago, but CS majors can still get jobs in that industry. They just aren't getting the big paycheck type FAANG jobs with multiple offers. That doesn't mean the CS industry is not hiring. It just means it's no longer the crazy hiring frenzy of years ago. Still better to be a CS major than an English major.

I worked in SV during the boom in the 90s. We went through a dip in the early 2000s, then again in 2008. I was still able to find work, but my rate was lower than it had been in 90s. It's cyclical. But we will always need CS majors, even with AI. Who do you think programs and fixes the AI? And then, we will need software to identify AI generated content. It will be a constant battle to one up.

The people who “program and fix AI” are an elite subgroup of computer scientists. Just look at the computer scientists working at the major AI companies. Your average CS major can’t get that kind of job.

[Anonymous]

My kid is majoring in EE. He wants to minor Math but after reading the thread, maybe minoring CS would be more useful

[Anonymous]

A few weeks ago I read in another forum that EE is getting popular now. Many parents were discussing transferring from CS to engineering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just returned from a college reunion, and my friends' kids who majored in CS and graduated last year and this year are all un- or under-employed. It seems pretty obvious to me that low-level CS jobs are the first to be gobbled up by AI. If you go to a top school, it truly does not matter what you major in. Most of those kids who want top jobs in tech, finance, consulting will get them. Majoring in something skill-based is more important if you attend even a slightly lower-ranked school. This is why people work so hard to secure spots in the Ivy-plus schools.

Most low level IT jobs have been offshored for a while. But, yea, most grads from T20 CS schools will be ok. Maybe not the $150K starting salary with $80K bonus, ok, but they will get something decent that pays more than most humanities majors.

CS majors are not applying for low level IT jobs. CS is not IT.

So, what are CS majors doing? What kind of jobs are CS majors getting?

I’d love to know.

One of my brilliant friend's brilliant CS major kid didn't get any offer from any company a CS kid wants to work for. He'll be working at American Airlines. Two years ago, kids of his caliber were trying to decide between several top offers.

The landscape is very different now compared to a few years ago, but CS majors can still get jobs in that industry. They just aren't getting the big paycheck type FAANG jobs with multiple offers. That doesn't mean the CS industry is not hiring. It just means it's no longer the crazy hiring frenzy of years ago. Still better to be a CS major than an English major.

I worked in SV during the boom in the 90s. We went through a dip in the early 2000s, then again in 2008. I was still able to find work, but my rate was lower than it had been in 90s. It's cyclical. But we will always need CS majors, even with AI. Who do you think programs and fixes the AI? And then, we will need software to identify AI generated content. It will be a constant battle to one up.

The people who “program and fix AI” are an elite subgroup of computer scientists. Just look at the computer scientists working at the major AI companies. Your average CS major can’t get that kind of job.

NP. It depends on what is meant by “program and fix AI.” AI generated code will still need to be reviewed, tested, and modified by a human for serious commercial projects in the foreseeable future. That is not such an elite skill, though the number of jobs might be different than if there were no AI: the number of jobs probably still grows but at a different rate than otherwise. Modifying the algorithms themselves is a different matter: that’s far more theoretical and tends to require advanced education/training and math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid is majoring in EE. He wants to minor Math but after reading the thread, maybe minoring CS would be more useful

A BSEE includes so much math that a Math minor might not be many additional courses. If a BSEE major and thinking about a CS minor, why not change degree to BS Computer Engineering ? Computer Engineering is maybe 2/3rds ECE courses and 1/3rd CS courses (split % varies by university, of. course) anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:why is DCUM assuming comp sci majors have no writing skills?
why is dcum assuming english majors have math skills?

why is dcum assuming comp sci majors have lesser social skills than english majors?

This. My CS major at an Ivy writes beautiful papers and receives solid A's in writing and other humanities classes which are easy in comparison. I wonder how many Humanities majors could do as well in the CS classes - and I'm not talking intro to CS or CS for nonmajors but the weeder classes. Good luck.

Wow you’re very proud aren’t you?

DP. Maybe, but not wrong. The myth is that folks good in STEM are always poor at reading, writing, history, and whatnot. The reality is that many good STEM students also are good at those other easier things.

That's called wishful thinking.. Along the lines of 'All jocks are idiots'. What is real is that, outside of those 'intentional' LA kids (those with grad school plans such as law) most end up in LA because they couldn't hack the more difficult majors... and 'reading, writing, history and whatnot' knowledge and skills can pretty much be acquired off the internet these days. Not so with coding or engineering.

You really have no clue what you are talking about...

That said, CS is about far far more than "coding"

Of course. If you know that, I certainly do. I specifically did not use those words because some LA idiot will pipe in and say "but, but, Computer Science is a liberal art" and we'll have to go down that pointless rabbit hole again.

You two can’t communicate with each other. Kind of settles the CS majors can read and write debate.

Why do you assume these poster majored in CS? It was a pretty new field when I went to college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just returned from a college reunion, and my friends' kids who majored in CS and graduated last year and this year are all un- or under-employed. It seems pretty obvious to me that low-level CS jobs are the first to be gobbled up by AI. If you go to a top school, it truly does not matter what you major in. Most of those kids who want top jobs in tech, finance, consulting will get them. Majoring in something skill-based is more important if you attend even a slightly lower-ranked school. This is why people work so hard to secure spots in the Ivy-plus schools.

Most low level IT jobs have been offshored for a while. But, yea, most grads from T20 CS schools will be ok. Maybe not the $150K starting salary with $80K bonus, ok, but they will get something decent that pays more than most humanities majors.

CS majors are not applying for low level IT jobs. CS is not IT.

So, what are CS majors doing? What kind of jobs are CS majors getting?

I’d love to know.

One of my brilliant friend's brilliant CS major kid didn't get any offer from any company a CS kid wants to work for. He'll be working at American Airlines. Two years ago, kids of his caliber were trying to decide between several top offers.

The landscape is very different now compared to a few years ago, but CS majors can still get jobs in that industry. They just aren't getting the big paycheck type FAANG jobs with multiple offers. That doesn't mean the CS industry is not hiring. It just means it's no longer the crazy hiring frenzy of years ago. Still better to be a CS major than an English major.

I worked in SV during the boom in the 90s. We went through a dip in the early 2000s, then again in 2008. I was still able to find work, but my rate was lower than it had been in 90s. It's cyclical. But we will always need CS majors, even with AI. Who do you think programs and fixes the AI? And then, we will need software to identify AI generated content. It will be a constant battle to one up.

The people who “program and fix AI” are an elite subgroup of computer scientists. Just look at the computer scientists working at the major AI companies. Your average CS major can’t get that kind of job.

Keep up. AI is a major within CS now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:why is DCUM assuming comp sci majors have no writing skills?
why is dcum assuming english majors have math skills?

why is dcum assuming comp sci majors have lesser social skills than english majors?

This. My CS major at an Ivy writes beautiful papers and receives solid A's in writing and other humanities classes which are easy in comparison. I wonder how many Humanities majors could do as well in the CS classes - and I'm not talking intro to CS or CS for nonmajors but the weeder classes. Good luck.

Wow you’re very proud aren’t you?

DP. Maybe, but not wrong. The myth is that folks good in STEM are always poor at reading, writing, history, and whatnot. The reality is that many good STEM students also are good at those other easier things.

That's called wishful thinking.. Along the lines of 'All jocks are idiots'. What is real is that, outside of those 'intentional' LA kids (those with grad school plans such as law) most end up in LA because they couldn't hack the more difficult majors... and 'reading, writing, history and whatnot' knowledge and skills can pretty much be acquired off the internet these days. Not so with coding or engineering.

You really have no clue what you are talking about...

That said, CS is about far far more than "coding"

Of course. If you know that, I certainly do. I specifically did not use those words because some LA idiot will pipe in and say "but, but, Computer Science is a liberal art" and we'll have to go down that pointless rabbit hole again.

You two can’t communicate with each other. Kind of settles the CS majors can read and write debate.

Why do you assume these poster majored in CS? It was a pretty new field when I went to college.

Shorthand. They're team CS, all they want to do is dump on LACs, but they're tearing into each other because, reading comprehension, comical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just returned from a college reunion, and my friends' kids who majored in CS and graduated last year and this year are all un- or under-employed. It seems pretty obvious to me that low-level CS jobs are the first to be gobbled up by AI. If you go to a top school, it truly does not matter what you major in. Most of those kids who want top jobs in tech, finance, consulting will get them. Majoring in something skill-based is more important if you attend even a slightly lower-ranked school. This is why people work so hard to secure spots in the Ivy-plus schools.

Most low level IT jobs have been offshored for a while. But, yea, most grads from T20 CS schools will be ok. Maybe not the $150K starting salary with $80K bonus, ok, but they will get something decent that pays more than most humanities majors.

CS majors are not applying for low level IT jobs. CS is not IT.

So, what are CS majors doing? What kind of jobs are CS majors getting?

I’d love to know.

One of my brilliant friend's brilliant CS major kid didn't get any offer from any company a CS kid wants to work for. He'll be working at American Airlines. Two years ago, kids of his caliber were trying to decide between several top offers.

The landscape is very different now compared to a few years ago, but CS majors can still get jobs in that industry. They just aren't getting the big paycheck type FAANG jobs with multiple offers. That doesn't mean the CS industry is not hiring. It just means it's no longer the crazy hiring frenzy of years ago. Still better to be a CS major than an English major.

I worked in SV during the boom in the 90s. We went through a dip in the early 2000s, then again in 2008. I was still able to find work, but my rate was lower than it had been in 90s. It's cyclical. But we will always need CS majors, even with AI. Who do you think programs and fixes the AI? And then, we will need software to identify AI generated content. It will be a constant battle to one up.

The people who “program and fix AI” are an elite subgroup of computer scientists. Just look at the computer scientists working at the major AI companies. Your average CS major can’t get that kind of job.

Keep up. AI is a major within CS now.

The elite subgroup is saturated, photo doesn't do justice

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:why is DCUM assuming comp sci majors have no writing skills?
why is dcum assuming english majors have math skills?

why is dcum assuming comp sci majors have lesser social skills than english majors?

This. My CS major at an Ivy writes beautiful papers and receives solid A's in writing and other humanities classes which are easy in comparison. I wonder how many Humanities majors could do as well in the CS classes - and I'm not talking intro to CS or CS for nonmajors but the weeder classes. Good luck.

Wow you’re very proud aren’t you?

DP. Maybe, but not wrong. The myth is that folks good in STEM are always poor at reading, writing, history, and whatnot. The reality is that many good STEM students also are good at those other easier things.

That's called wishful thinking.. Along the lines of 'All jocks are idiots'. What is real is that, outside of those 'intentional' LA kids (those with grad school plans such as law) most end up in LA because they couldn't hack the more difficult majors... and 'reading, writing, history and whatnot' knowledge and skills can pretty much be acquired off the internet these days. Not so with coding or engineering.

You really have no clue what you are talking about...

That said, CS is about far far more than "coding"

Of course. If you know that, I certainly do. I specifically did not use those words because some LA idiot will pipe in and say "but, but, Computer Science is a liberal art" and we'll have to go down that pointless rabbit hole again.

You two can’t communicate with each other. Kind of settles the CS majors can read and write debate.

Why do you assume these poster majored in CS? It was a pretty new field when I went to college.

Shorthand. They're team CS, all they want to do is dump on LACs, but they're tearing into each other because, reading comprehension, comical.

Based on your sentence structure, I'm assuming you didn't attend a LAC nor were a humanities major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just returned from a college reunion, and my friends' kids who majored in CS and graduated last year and this year are all un- or under-employed. It seems pretty obvious to me that low-level CS jobs are the first to be gobbled up by AI. If you go to a top school, it truly does not matter what you major in. Most of those kids who want top jobs in tech, finance, consulting will get them. Majoring in something skill-based is more important if you attend even a slightly lower-ranked school. This is why people work so hard to secure spots in the Ivy-plus schools.

Most low level IT jobs have been offshored for a while. But, yea, most grads from T20 CS schools will be ok. Maybe not the $150K starting salary with $80K bonus, ok, but they will get something decent that pays more than most humanities majors.

CS majors are not applying for low level IT jobs. CS is not IT.

So, what are CS majors doing? What kind of jobs are CS majors getting?

I’d love to know.

One of my brilliant friend's brilliant CS major kid didn't get any offer from any company a CS kid wants to work for. He'll be working at American Airlines. Two years ago, kids of his caliber were trying to decide between several top offers.

The landscape is very different now compared to a few years ago, but CS majors can still get jobs in that industry. They just aren't getting the big paycheck type FAANG jobs with multiple offers. That doesn't mean the CS industry is not hiring. It just means it's no longer the crazy hiring frenzy of years ago. Still better to be a CS major than an English major.

I worked in SV during the boom in the 90s. We went through a dip in the early 2000s, then again in 2008. I was still able to find work, but my rate was lower than it had been in 90s. It's cyclical. But we will always need CS majors, even with AI. Who do you think programs and fixes the AI? And then, we will need software to identify AI generated content. It will be a constant battle to one up.

The people who “program and fix AI” are an elite subgroup of computer scientists. Just look at the computer scientists working at the major AI companies. Your average CS major can’t get that kind of job.

Keep up. AI is a major within CS now.

The elite subgroup is saturated, photo doesn't do justice

People who know how to create AI and use AI are/will be in high demand.

https://www.dice.com/career-advice/ai-jobs-demand-analysis-current-trends-and-future-outlook

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/04/job-postings-mentioning-ai-more-than-doubled-since-2021-linkedin.html

https://www.mckinsey.com/mgi/our-research/generative-ai-and-the-future-of-work-in-america