Word of caution for aspiring CS majors

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:why is DCUM assuming comp sci majors have no writing skills?
why is dcum assuming english majors have math skills?

why is dcum assuming comp sci majors have lesser social skills than english majors?

This. My CS major at an Ivy writes beautiful papers and receives solid A's in writing and other humanities classes which are easy in comparison. I wonder how many Humanities majors could do as well in the CS classes - and I'm not talking intro to CS or CS for nonmajors but the weeder classes. Good luck.

Wow you’re very proud aren’t you?

DP. Maybe, but not wrong. The myth is that folks good in STEM are always poor at reading, writing, history, and whatnot. The reality is that many good STEM students also are good at those other easier things.

That's called wishful thinking.. Along the lines of 'All jocks are idiots'. What is real is that, outside of those 'intentional' LA kids (those with grad school plans such as law) most end up in LA because they couldn't hack the more difficult majors... and 'reading, writing, history and whatnot' knowledge and skills can pretty much be acquired off the internet these days. Not so with coding or engineering.

You really have no clue what you are talking about...

That said, CS is about far far more than "coding"

Of course. If you know that, I certainly do. I specifically did not use those words because some LA idiot will pipe in and say "but, but, Computer Science is a liberal art" and we'll have to go down that pointless rabbit hole again.

You two can’t communicate with each other. Kind of settles the CS majors can read and write debate.

Why do you assume these poster majored in CS? It was a pretty new field when I went to college.

Shorthand. They're team CS, all they want to do is dump on LACs, but they're tearing into each other because, reading comprehension, comical.

One of the problems we have in recruiting is that staff actually needs to be able to communicate with others. When we had a double CS and English major recently, it was cause for celebration, until somewhere else snapped her up.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Just returned from a college reunion, and my friends' kids who majored in CS and graduated last year and this year are all un- or under-employed. It seems pretty obvious to me that low-level CS jobs are the first to be gobbled up by AI. If you go to a top school, it truly does not matter what you major in. Most of those kids who want top jobs in tech, finance, consulting will get them. Majoring in something skill-based is more important if you attend even a slightly lower-ranked school. This is why people work so hard to secure spots in the Ivy-plus schools.

Most low level IT jobs have been offshored for a while. But, yea, most grads from T20 CS schools will be ok. Maybe not the $150K starting salary with $80K bonus, ok, but they will get something decent that pays more than most humanities majors.

CS majors are not applying for low level IT jobs. CS is not IT.

So, what are CS majors doing? What kind of jobs are CS majors getting?

I’d love to know.

One of my brilliant friend's brilliant CS major kid didn't get any offer from any company a CS kid wants to work for. He'll be working at American Airlines. Two years ago, kids of his caliber were trying to decide between several top offers.

The landscape is very different now compared to a few years ago, but CS majors can still get jobs in that industry. They just aren't getting the big paycheck type FAANG jobs with multiple offers. That doesn't mean the CS industry is not hiring. It just means it's no longer the crazy hiring frenzy of years ago. Still better to be a CS major than an English major.

I worked in SV during the boom in the 90s. We went through a dip in the early 2000s, then again in 2008. I was still able to find work, but my rate was lower than it had been in 90s. It's cyclical. But we will always need CS majors, even with AI. Who do you think programs and fixes the AI? And then, we will need software to identify AI generated content. It will be a constant battle to one up.

The people who “program and fix AI” are an elite subgroup of computer scientists. Just look at the computer scientists working at the major AI companies. Your average CS major can’t get that kind of job.

Keep up. AI is a major within CS now.

The elite subgroup is saturated, photo doesn't do justice

People who know how to create AI and use AI are/will be in high demand.

https://www.dice.com/career-advice/ai-jobs-demand-analysis-current-trends-and-future-outlook

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/04/job-postings-mentioning-ai-more-than-doubled-since-2021-linkedin.html

https://www.mckinsey.com/mgi/our-research/generative-ai-and-the-future-of-work-in-america

Oh it’s the boondoggle. Already the number one vector for online disinformation. That’s an actual photo on airplane hanger full of PhDs at the ready. Count fingers if you need to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:why is DCUM assuming comp sci majors have no writing skills?
why is dcum assuming english majors have math skills?

why is dcum assuming comp sci majors have lesser social skills than english majors?

This. My CS major at an Ivy writes beautiful papers and receives solid A's in writing and other humanities classes which are easy in comparison. I wonder how many Humanities majors could do as well in the CS classes - and I'm not talking intro to CS or CS for nonmajors but the weeder classes. Good luck.

Wow you’re very proud aren’t you?

DP. Maybe, but not wrong. The myth is that folks good in STEM are always poor at reading, writing, history, and whatnot. The reality is that many good STEM students also are good at those other easier things.

That's called wishful thinking.. Along the lines of 'All jocks are idiots'. What is real is that, outside of those 'intentional' LA kids (those with grad school plans such as law) most end up in LA because they couldn't hack the more difficult majors... and 'reading, writing, history and whatnot' knowledge and skills can pretty much be acquired off the internet these days. Not so with coding or engineering.

You really have no clue what you are talking about...

That said, CS is about far far more than "coding"

Of course. If you know that, I certainly do. I specifically did not use those words because some LA idiot will pipe in and say "but, but, Computer Science is a liberal art" and we'll have to go down that pointless rabbit hole again.

You two can’t communicate with each other. Kind of settles the CS majors can read and write debate.

Why do you assume these poster majored in CS? It was a pretty new field when I went to college.

Shorthand. They're team CS, all they want to do is dump on LACs, but they're tearing into each other because, reading comprehension, comical.

One of the problems we have in recruiting is that staff actually needs to be able to communicate with others. When we had a double CS and English major recently, it was cause for celebration, until somewhere else snapped her up.

The issue is real. Hyper focusing on STEM ever younger has made it worse not better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just returned from a college reunion, and my friends' kids who majored in CS and graduated last year and this year are all un- or under-employed. It seems pretty obvious to me that low-level CS jobs are the first to be gobbled up by AI. If you go to a top school, it truly does not matter what you major in. Most of those kids who want top jobs in tech, finance, consulting will get them. Majoring in something skill-based is more important if you attend even a slightly lower-ranked school. This is why people work so hard to secure spots in the Ivy-plus schools.

Most low level IT jobs have been offshored for a while. But, yea, most grads from T20 CS schools will be ok. Maybe not the $150K starting salary with $80K bonus, ok, but they will get something decent that pays more than most humanities majors.

CS majors are not applying for low level IT jobs. CS is not IT.

So, what are CS majors doing? What kind of jobs are CS majors getting?

I’d love to know.

One of my brilliant friend's brilliant CS major kid didn't get any offer from any company a CS kid wants to work for. He'll be working at American Airlines. Two years ago, kids of his caliber were trying to decide between several top offers.

The landscape is very different now compared to a few years ago, but CS majors can still get jobs in that industry. They just aren't getting the big paycheck type FAANG jobs with multiple offers. That doesn't mean the CS industry is not hiring. It just means it's no longer the crazy hiring frenzy of years ago. Still better to be a CS major than an English major.

I worked in SV during the boom in the 90s. We went through a dip in the early 2000s, then again in 2008. I was still able to find work, but my rate was lower than it had been in 90s. It's cyclical. But we will always need CS majors, even with AI. Who do you think programs and fixes the AI? And then, we will need software to identify AI generated content. It will be a constant battle to one up.

The people who “program and fix AI” are an elite subgroup of computer scientists. Just look at the computer scientists working at the major AI companies. Your average CS major can’t get that kind of job.

Keep up. AI is a major within CS now.

The elite subgroup is saturated, photo doesn't do justice

People who know how to create AI and use AI are/will be in high demand.

https://www.dice.com/career-advice/ai-jobs-demand-analysis-current-trends-and-future-outlook

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/04/job-postings-mentioning-ai-more-than-doubled-since-2021-linkedin.html

https://www.mckinsey.com/mgi/our-research/generative-ai-and-the-future-of-work-in-america

Oh it’s the boondoggle. Already the number one vector for online disinformation. That’s an actual photo on airplane hanger full of PhDs at the ready. Count fingers if you need to.

wut

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:why is DCUM assuming comp sci majors have no writing skills?
why is dcum assuming english majors have math skills?

why is dcum assuming comp sci majors have lesser social skills than english majors?

This. My CS major at an Ivy writes beautiful papers and receives solid A's in writing and other humanities classes which are easy in comparison. I wonder how many Humanities majors could do as well in the CS classes - and I'm not talking intro to CS or CS for nonmajors but the weeder classes. Good luck.

Wow you’re very proud aren’t you?

DP. Maybe, but not wrong. The myth is that folks good in STEM are always poor at reading, writing, history, and whatnot. The reality is that many good STEM students also are good at those other easier things.

That's called wishful thinking.. Along the lines of 'All jocks are idiots'. What is real is that, outside of those 'intentional' LA kids (those with grad school plans such as law) most end up in LA because they couldn't hack the more difficult majors... and 'reading, writing, history and whatnot' knowledge and skills can pretty much be acquired off the internet these days. Not so with coding or engineering.

You really have no clue what you are talking about...

That said, CS is about far far more than "coding"

Of course. If you know that, I certainly do. I specifically did not use those words because some LA idiot will pipe in and say "but, but, Computer Science is a liberal art" and we'll have to go down that pointless rabbit hole again.

If you are the person I was responding to, you said that 'reading, writing, history and whatnot' can be acquired off the internet these days but not coding. Which is such a bunch of nonsense. Most people get started on coding by playing around on the internet. You may not learn great habits, but its really the only way to learn to code.

If you really want to study computer science, coding is only a small part of it. Mostly its just math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get a liberal arts degree (economics and something soft) from the highest ranked school you can.

Recruiting for finance, consulting, and corporate /strategy roles are much much easier if you are in English and economics major coming from Rice or Vanderbilt or Emory compared to CS at Purdue…..

Ask around people!!!

lol at this bs

+1 I think some people on DCUM just enjoy posting absolute garbage. Purdue's employment at graduation rate is 100%. At Rice it's 82%.Vanderbilt is 88%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get a liberal arts degree (economics and something soft) from the highest ranked school you can.

Recruiting for finance, consulting, and corporate /strategy roles are much much easier if you are in English and economics major coming from Rice or Vanderbilt or Emory compared to CS at Purdue…..

Ask around people!!!

Unless you have good connections/networking, that will not help.

DS will graduate from an Ivy, commencement is today, and he is still looking for for a job, as most of his friends who don't have connections. Those with connections have good jobs.

Those unconnected kids must have been doing it wrong. How on earth do you graduate from an Ivy league institution and not have connections. That’s the WHOLE entire point of attending that type of school. What the hell were they doing the past 4 years??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get a liberal arts degree (economics and something soft) from the highest ranked school you can.

Recruiting for finance, consulting, and corporate /strategy roles are much much easier if you are in English and economics major coming from Rice or Vanderbilt or Emory compared to CS at Purdue…..

Ask around people!!!

Unless you have good connections/networking, that will not help.

DS will graduate from an Ivy, commencement is today, and he is still looking for for a job, as most of his friends who don't have connections. Those with connections have good jobs.

Did your kid and his friends all graduate with low GPAs at the bottom of their class? No internships? Blacklisted by the campus career center?? You’re leaving something out…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why we need entrepreneurs to create more of the jobs your kids want.

Being an entrepreneur is too hard for most people. I say this as an owner with 50 employees and $26M in sales last year. People want the success without the risk and pain. Honestly, most people are basic and want a steady paycheck for minimal effort.

^^That’s me in a nutshell. I feel seen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get a liberal arts degree (economics and something soft) from the highest ranked school you can.

Recruiting for finance, consulting, and corporate /strategy roles are much much easier if you are in English and economics major coming from Rice or Vanderbilt or Emory compared to CS at Purdue…..

Ask around people!!!

Unless you have good connections/networking, that will not help.

DS will graduate from an Ivy, commencement is today, and he is still looking for for a job, as most of his friends who don't have connections. Those with connections have good jobs.

Did your kid and his friends all graduate with low GPAs at the bottom of their class? No internships? Blacklisted by the campus career center?? You’re leaving something out…

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:why is DCUM assuming comp sci majors have no writing skills?
why is dcum assuming english majors have math skills?

why is dcum assuming comp sci majors have lesser social skills than english majors?

This. My CS major at an Ivy writes beautiful papers and receives solid A's in writing and other humanities classes which are easy in comparison. I wonder how many Humanities majors could do as well in the CS classes - and I'm not talking intro to CS or CS for nonmajors but the weeder classes. Good luck.

Wow you’re very proud aren’t you?

DP. Maybe, but not wrong. The myth is that folks good in STEM are always poor at reading, writing, history, and whatnot. The reality is that many good STEM students also are good at those other easier things.

That's called wishful thinking.. Along the lines of 'All jocks are idiots'. What is real is that, outside of those 'intentional' LA kids (those with grad school plans such as law) most end up in LA because they couldn't hack the more difficult majors... and 'reading, writing, history and whatnot' knowledge and skills can pretty much be acquired off the internet these days. Not so with coding or engineering.

You really have no clue what you are talking about...

That said, CS is about far far more than "coding"

Of course. If you know that, I certainly do. I specifically did not use those words because some LA idiot will pipe in and say "but, but, Computer Science is a liberal art" and we'll have to go down that pointless rabbit hole again.

You two can’t communicate with each other. Kind of settles the CS majors can read and write debate.

Why do you assume these poster majored in CS? It was a pretty new field when I went to college.

Shorthand. They're team CS, all they want to do is dump on LACs, but they're tearing into each other because, reading comprehension, comical.

One of the problems we have in recruiting is that staff actually needs to be able to communicate with others. When we had a double CS and English major recently, it was cause for celebration, until somewhere else snapped her up.

This is me. CS and English with excellent oral and written skills.

I bring writing samples and tech savvy and get snapped up in a heartbeat. I demand top dollar and get it. I am technical but can also break it down for senior management. I have excellent presentation skills, better than my technical skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:What market isn't saturated?

Also, this is why it is so hard to get admitted to a CS program -- they aren't expanding the seats to meet student demand unless there is market demand.

UMD CP actually halved the CS class, but I think that was due to too many students who are not ready for it being interested in it, and wanting to keep the classes more intimate. UMD is also developing its AI/ML programs.

Job market is cyclical, but low level IT jobs have all been offshored. The big thing now is AI and ML, both of which are related to CS degrees. Some colleges are now starting to offer AI majors. That's the next big thing.

UMD may limit seats to increase demand for their program, but they are not adjusting to match the job market. Schools could care less about that.

I know UMD CS grad this cycle who does not have a job, including from previous internships. Planning a gap year abroad teaching English.

CS departments limit seats because the field is so lucrative they can't get people to teach for a professor's measly wage.

Yep. Same issue has occurred in the Nursing field for years. Shortage of nursing professors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:why is DCUM assuming comp sci majors have no writing skills?
why is dcum assuming english majors have math skills?

why is dcum assuming comp sci majors have lesser social skills than english majors?

This. My CS major at an Ivy writes beautiful papers and receives solid A's in writing and other humanities classes which are easy in comparison. I wonder how many Humanities majors could do as well in the CS classes - and I'm not talking intro to CS or CS for nonmajors but the weeder classes. Good luck.

Wow you’re very proud aren’t you?

DP. Maybe, but not wrong. The myth is that folks good in STEM are always poor at reading, writing, history, and whatnot. The reality is that many good STEM students also are good at those other easier things.

Exactly. My STEM student excels in history and loves playing the violin, truly appreciates the fine arts. The smartest STEM people I know are actually very well rounded people.

[Anonymous]

At Fortune's Future of Finance conference in New York City, BlackRock Chief Operating Officer Robert Goldstein says firm wants to hire more graduates who majored in "things that have nothing to do with finance or technology."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:why is DCUM assuming comp sci majors have no writing skills?
why is dcum assuming english majors have math skills?

why is dcum assuming comp sci majors have lesser social skills than english majors?

Because they've met them? Even the CEOs of these companies have no social skills.