VA in-state: Anyone get in at Michigan but not UVA?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:UVA needs to figure out how to expand so our top students can stay in state. No, my high stats kid doesn’t want to go to W&M or VT. Virginia is failing the taxpayers.

if your kid doesn't want to go to W&M or Tech, or any of the other great state schools we have here, how is that VA failing us? That's your kids choice.

We are fortunate that Virginia offers lots of great choices; it doesn't mean "top students" (however that may be defined) are entitled to admission to the in-state school of their choice.

It should mean that though.. Even Virginia Tech favors OOS students. Admit rates for OOS is far higher than for in-state students.

Because OOS yield is so low. The actual student body is 2/3 Virginia students, a little higher % than UVA has. If you want them to be more VA-dominated, you'd need to lobby the state to impose limits. Like in CA the top UCs are 75% CA residents.

The top UC's are more than 80% in state residents.

Just looked at their data and it's actually exactly 80% at Berkeley & Santa Barbara, 79% at UCLA, Davis, San Diego. Lowest in-state % is Irvine, 76%, and that goes along with a high % international not US OOS students. The less-desirable UCs are all higher in-state % (90%+) https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/about-us/information-center/freshman-admissions-summary

Regardless, if you want VA to be California then you need to lobby the state legislature to better fund VA universities and set caps on OOS admissions. Right now, the universities have figured out the % they need to be majority VA students but also have the funding they need since VA doesn't fund state Us very well. And, any VA student can go to a public college it just may not be their first choice.

False. It's 90% Californians at UCLA. California residents. From UCLA's website
"Close to 90 percent of UC undergraduates are California residents. They are a vibrant and diverse group, encompassing the cultural, racial, socioeconomic and geographic richness of our state".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:UVA needs to figure out how to expand so our top students can stay in state. No, my high stats kid doesn’t want to go to W&M or VT. Virginia is failing the taxpayers.

if your kid doesn't want to go to W&M or Tech, or any of the other great state schools we have here, how is that VA failing us? That's your kids choice.

We are fortunate that Virginia offers lots of great choices; it doesn't mean "top students" (however that may be defined) are entitled to admission to the in-state school of their choice.

It should mean that though.. Even Virginia Tech favors OOS students. Admit rates for OOS is far higher than for in-state students.

Because OOS yield is so low. The actual student body is 2/3 Virginia students, a little higher % than UVA has. If you want them to be more VA-dominated, you'd need to lobby the state to impose limits. Like in CA the top UCs are 75% CA residents.

The top UC's are more than 80% in state residents.

Just looked at their data and it's actually exactly 80% at Berkeley & Santa Barbara, 79% at UCLA, Davis, San Diego. Lowest in-state % is Irvine, 76%, and that goes along with a high % international not US OOS students. The less-desirable UCs are all higher in-state % (90%+) https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/about-us/information-center/freshman-admissions-summary

Regardless, if you want VA to be California then you need to lobby the state legislature to better fund VA universities and set caps on OOS admissions. Right now, the universities have figured out the % they need to be majority VA students but also have the funding they need since VA doesn't fund state Us very well. And, any VA student can go to a public college it just may not be their first choice.

False. It's 90% Californians at UCLA. California residents. From UCLA's website
"Close to 90 percent of UC undergraduates are California residents. They are a vibrant and diverse group, encompassing the cultural, racial, socioeconomic and geographic richness of our state".

+1. And Berkeley is 86% Californian. "Overall, UC enrolled 194,571 California resident undergraduates — or 4,145 more than fall 2022, a 2.2% jump. That accounted for 83.4% of UC's total undergraduate enrollment. Enrollment of out-of-state students declined, thanks to a drop in the number of returning international students.Jan 19, 2024"


Californians got upset that they couldn't access their own universities so the Regents had to pay attention and change things up. Virginia schools should take note.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA needs to figure out how to expand so our top students can stay in state. No, my high stats kid doesn’t want to go to W&M or VT. Virginia is failing the taxpayers.

if your kid doesn't want to go to W&M or Tech, or any of the other great state schools we have here, how is that VA failing us? That's your kids choice.

We are fortunate that Virginia offers lots of great choices; it doesn't mean "top students" (however that may be defined) are entitled to admission to the in-state school of their choice.

They should be, though. It's like that in other states.

Tell me, other than University of Texas at Austin, which states guarantee that "top students" will be admitted to their in-state school of choice?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:“ Not at all! UMich is the 'back up alternative' for kids that get rejected from UVA. I see it over and over again. There are too many kids applying to UVA from each HS so even top candidates that seemingly have 'everything' get rejected or waitlisted. When that happens--many end up at U Mich.”


You’re imagining things that don’t exist. Michigan is about 50/50 IS/OOS. Single digit OOS acceptances. It’s not a backup to UVA since OOS admittance is so low. It is interesting how Michigan’s OOS yield is higher than UVA, even without ED manipulation

Michigan is absolutely a backup for a small group of students rejected from UVa. High stats NoVa STEM students who are full pay. True for over a decade.

This is very true, not just STEM. It was true at my Fairfax Co HS back in the late 80s/90. High performance kids chose Ann Arbor as a back-up to UVA.

Thirty to forty years ago? You seriously expect anyone to care what happened last century?

It's always been this way. Period. Point: this isn't new. UMich was always a UVA backup for high-performing in-state VA students who can afford it.

Always? I think you’re living in the past. In the meantime in Michigan, UVA was never used as a backup. No need to when the local product was superior.

It's used as backup because UVA is half the size of Michigan and every kid in VA essentially applies to UVA. Where do the Michigan kids that don't get into Ann Arbor go?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA needs to figure out how to expand so our top students can stay in state. No, my high stats kid doesn’t want to go to W&M or VT. Virginia is failing the taxpayers.

if your kid doesn't want to go to W&M or Tech, or any of the other great state schools we have here, how is that VA failing us? That's your kids choice.

We are fortunate that Virginia offers lots of great choices; it doesn't mean "top students" (however that may be defined) are entitled to admission to the in-state school of their choice.

They should be, though. It's like that in other states.

Tell me, other than University of Texas at Austin, which states guarantee that "top students" will be admitted to their in-state school of choice?

Texas is actually the only one. Their system is that the top 10% of high schoolers get to go. It's not a perfect system and some abuse it but at least you know what you are dealing with. California, Michigan and UVA (the other top states) are not like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA needs to figure out how to expand so our top students can stay in state. No, my high stats kid doesn’t want to go to W&M or VT. Virginia is failing the taxpayers.

if your kid doesn't want to go to W&M or Tech, or any of the other great state schools we have here, how is that VA failing us? That's your kids choice.

We are fortunate that Virginia offers lots of great choices; it doesn't mean "top students" (however that may be defined) are entitled to admission to the in-state school of their choice.

They should be, though. It's like that in other states.

Tell me, other than University of Texas at Austin, which states guarantee that "top students" will be admitted to their in-state school of choice?

Texas is actually the only one. Their system is that the top 10% of high schoolers get to go. It's not a perfect system and some abuse it but at least you know what you are dealing with. California, Michigan and UVA (the other top states) are not like that.

I believe there is proposed legislation in Wisconsin and Maryland

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ Not at all! UMich is the 'back up alternative' for kids that get rejected from UVA. I see it over and over again. There are too many kids applying to UVA from each HS so even top candidates that seemingly have 'everything' get rejected or waitlisted. When that happens--many end up at U Mich.”


You’re imagining things that don’t exist. Michigan is about 50/50 IS/OOS. Single digit OOS acceptances. It’s not a backup to UVA since OOS admittance is so low. It is interesting how Michigan’s OOS yield is higher than UVA, even without ED manipulation

Michigan is absolutely a backup for a small group of students rejected from UVa. High stats NoVa STEM students who are full pay. True for over a decade.

This is very true, not just STEM. It was true at my Fairfax Co HS back in the late 80s/90. High performance kids chose Ann Arbor as a back-up to UVA.

Thirty to forty years ago? You seriously expect anyone to care what happened last century?

It's always been this way. Period. Point: this isn't new. UMich was always a UVA backup for high-performing in-state VA students who can afford it.

Always? I think you’re living in the past. In the meantime in Michigan, UVA was never used as a backup. No need to when the local product was superior.

It's used as backup because UVA is half the size of Michigan and every kid in VA essentially applies to UVA. Where do the Michigan kids that don't get into Ann Arbor go?

Many go to Michigan State.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA needs to figure out how to expand so our top students can stay in state. No, my high stats kid doesn’t want to go to W&M or VT. Virginia is failing the taxpayers.

if your kid doesn't want to go to W&M or Tech, or any of the other great state schools we have here, how is that VA failing us? That's your kids choice.

We are fortunate that Virginia offers lots of great choices; it doesn't mean "top students" (however that may be defined) are entitled to admission to the in-state school of their choice.

It should mean that though.. Even Virginia Tech favors OOS students. Admit rates for OOS is far higher than for in-state students.

Because OOS yield is so low. The actual student body is 2/3 Virginia students, a little higher % than UVA has. If you want them to be more VA-dominated, you'd need to lobby the state to impose limits. Like in CA the top UCs are 75% CA residents.

The top UC's are more than 80% in state residents.

Just looked at their data and it's actually exactly 80% at Berkeley & Santa Barbara, 79% at UCLA, Davis, San Diego. Lowest in-state % is Irvine, 76%, and that goes along with a high % international not US OOS students. The less-desirable UCs are all higher in-state % (90%+) https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/about-us/information-center/freshman-admissions-summary

Regardless, if you want VA to be California then you need to lobby the state legislature to better fund VA universities and set caps on OOS admissions. Right now, the universities have figured out the % they need to be majority VA students but also have the funding they need since VA doesn't fund state Us very well. And, any VA student can go to a public college it just may not be their first choice.

False. It's 90% Californians at UCLA. California residents. From UCLA's website
"Close to 90 percent of UC undergraduates are California residents. They are a vibrant and diverse group, encompassing the cultural, racial, socioeconomic and geographic richness of our state".

Key phrase "close to". UCs own data portal, updated Feb 2024, shows the 80% stat quoted above. I'm sure in press the colleges want to spin it as even higher.
https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/about-us/information-center/freshman-admissions-summary

It's funny to me that a lot of people who will espouse here that it's so provincial to go to an in-state school with all those kids from VA/MD at the same time aspire for their kids to go to UCLA/Berkeley with 80%+ Californians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ Not at all! UMich is the 'back up alternative' for kids that get rejected from UVA. I see it over and over again. There are too many kids applying to UVA from each HS so even top candidates that seemingly have 'everything' get rejected or waitlisted. When that happens--many end up at U Mich.”


You’re imagining things that don’t exist. Michigan is about 50/50 IS/OOS. Single digit OOS acceptances. It’s not a backup to UVA since OOS admittance is so low. It is interesting how Michigan’s OOS yield is higher than UVA, even without ED manipulation

Michigan is absolutely a backup for a small group of students rejected from UVa. High stats NoVa STEM students who are full pay. True for over a decade.

This is very true, not just STEM. It was true at my Fairfax Co HS back in the late 80s/90. High performance kids chose Ann Arbor as a back-up to UVA.

Thirty to forty years ago? You seriously expect anyone to care what happened last century?

It's always been this way. Period. Point: this isn't new. UMich was always a UVA backup for high-performing in-state VA students who can afford it.

Always? I think you’re living in the past. In the meantime in Michigan, UVA was never used as a backup. No need to when the local product was superior.

It's used as backup because UVA is half the size of Michigan and every kid in VA essentially applies to UVA. Where do the Michigan kids that don't get into Ann Arbor go?

They don’t even apply to UVA, so that’s out. MSU is the biggest backup by far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA needs to figure out how to expand so our top students can stay in state. No, my high stats kid doesn’t want to go to W&M or VT. Virginia is failing the taxpayers.

if your kid doesn't want to go to W&M or Tech, or any of the other great state schools we have here, how is that VA failing us? That's your kids choice.

We are fortunate that Virginia offers lots of great choices; it doesn't mean "top students" (however that may be defined) are entitled to admission to the in-state school of their choice.

It should mean that though.. Even Virginia Tech favors OOS students. Admit rates for OOS is far higher than for in-state students.

Because OOS yield is so low. The actual student body is 2/3 Virginia students, a little higher % than UVA has. If you want them to be more VA-dominated, you'd need to lobby the state to impose limits. Like in CA the top UCs are 75% CA residents.

The top UC's are more than 80% in state residents.

Just looked at their data and it's actually exactly 80% at Berkeley & Santa Barbara, 79% at UCLA, Davis, San Diego. Lowest in-state % is Irvine, 76%, and that goes along with a high % international not US OOS students. The less-desirable UCs are all higher in-state % (90%+) https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/about-us/information-center/freshman-admissions-summary

Regardless, if you want VA to be California then you need to lobby the state legislature to better fund VA universities and set caps on OOS admissions. Right now, the universities have figured out the % they need to be majority VA students but also have the funding they need since VA doesn't fund state Us very well. And, any VA student can go to a public college it just may not be their first choice.

False. It's 90% Californians at UCLA. California residents. From UCLA's website
"Close to 90 percent of UC undergraduates are California residents. They are a vibrant and diverse group, encompassing the cultural, racial, socioeconomic and geographic richness of our state".

Key phrase "close to". UCs own data portal, updated Feb 2024, shows the 80% stat quoted above. I'm sure in press the colleges want to spin it as even higher.
https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/about-us/information-center/freshman-admissions-summary

It's funny to me that a lot of people who will espouse here that it's so provincial to go to an in-state school with all those kids from VA/MD at the same time aspire for their kids to go to UCLA/Berkeley with 80%+ Californians.

Except for the fact that CA has three times the population and encompasses a much larger area. It is also much more diverse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA needs to figure out how to expand so our top students can stay in state. No, my high stats kid doesn’t want to go to W&M or VT. Virginia is failing the taxpayers.

if your kid doesn't want to go to W&M or Tech, or any of the other great state schools we have here, how is that VA failing us? That's your kids choice.

We are fortunate that Virginia offers lots of great choices; it doesn't mean "top students" (however that may be defined) are entitled to admission to the in-state school of their choice.

They should be, though. It's like that in other states.

Tell me, other than University of Texas at Austin, which states guarantee that "top students" will be admitted to their in-state school of choice?

Texas is actually the only one. Their system is that the top 10% of high schoolers get to go. It's not a perfect system and some abuse it but at least you know what you are dealing with. California, Michigan and UVA (the other top states) are not like that.

Now, it is top 6% for UT Austin. Much more selective. For CS and business majors, close to top 2%, incredibly fierce competition

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA needs to figure out how to expand so our top students can stay in state. No, my high stats kid doesn’t want to go to W&M or VT. Virginia is failing the taxpayers.

if your kid doesn't want to go to W&M or Tech, or any of the other great state schools we have here, how is that VA failing us? That's your kids choice.

We are fortunate that Virginia offers lots of great choices; it doesn't mean "top students" (however that may be defined) are entitled to admission to the in-state school of their choice.

They should be, though. It's like that in other states.

Tell me, other than University of Texas at Austin, which states guarantee that "top students" will be admitted to their in-state school of choice?

Texas is actually the only one. Their system is that the top 10% of high schoolers get to go. It's not a perfect system and some abuse it but at least you know what you are dealing with. California, Michigan and UVA (the other top states) are not like that.

Now, it is top 6% for UT Austin. Much more selective. For CS and business majors, close to top 2%, incredibly fierce competition

Texas has 3.5x the population of Virginia and UT Austin has 2.4x the undergrauate enrollment of UVA. This is not unique to Virginia.

[Anonymous]

Michigan is a huge state. The top third or so of kids in state can get into Michigan. The rest can go to Michigan State, Eastern Michigan, Western Michigan, Northern (in the upper peninsula), and the tons of other public and private schools all over the state and regionally - Ohio State and Penn State are popular, Catholic kids will try for Notre Dame or Marquette, plenty of kids will venture out to the East Coast, etc.

[Anonymous]

Since at least the early 1980s, Virginia has had an (informal) agreement with W&M, UVa, and VT that approximately 2/3rds of undergraduate freshman students will be Virginia residents.

It varies a little from year to year because colleges only make offers and the acceptance/matriculation rate from applicants will vary a bit from year to year. Over the past decades though, that approximate ratio has nearly always held.

It also is true that both UVa and W&M are smaller public universities than in many other states, or even when compared with other VA public universities.

[Anonymous]

UVA and Charlottesville appear to want to strangle each other at this point. I don't think significant expansion is in the cards.