HB Woodlawn provides unfair advantage to students for college since no intensified classes

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't think its a good idea for kids to take this many APs, anyhow. If they are really college-level classes, albeit spread over 2 semesters, that's a lot of work. I--like most people--took 4 college level classes per semester in college, and was not juggling 2 or 3 OTHER classes that had homework, papers, tests, etc. I never took higher level math, a lab science, reading and paper-heavy English and social science, and a language in the same semester.

This is LITERALLY OP’s point.

The arms race for most AP and IB courses is exhausting, but if you don’t compete with your peers, you are no longer “most rigorous path”.

Meanwhile over at HB, kids don’t have to kill themselves because their peers simply can’t load up and escalate the AP course load.

No I'm saying I never took higher level math + a lab science + reading and paper-heavy English + a social science + a language in the same semester in college and I think it's kind of crazy that kids would do AP-level classes for all of those plus 2 or 3 other classes. For what? Read the college boards on Reddit, many of the kids doing this are miserable and the chances of getting in a top college are basically a crapshoot anyhow. Let them do a couple AP classes a year if they need/want the challenge but this loading up just to get their GPA up another tenth of a point or to go from "more rigorous" to "most rigorous" is crazy.

--mom of an H-b 11th grader and a current college student

Look, if you expect a kid who takes 2-3 APs to be compared equally to a kid that has taken 10-12, you are delusional. The kid taking the 10-12 APs either has higher aptitude or stronger work ethic (likely both) than the other kid. If you want to get into a t-20 school, you're going to have to suck it up and play the game. If t-20 isn't your goal, then you can relax a bit and not take such a demanding course load. It is all about choices. Don't be mad at the ambitious kids. FYI - the ambitious kids at ANY of the APS high schools do just fine. I don't really believe that any APS individual school gives a measurable advantage as far as I've seen.

The point is the ambitious kids at HB don’t have take the boatload of AP because they don’t have peers trying to. So not an advantage for admission per se, but they get same opportunities with less effort.

Who are you talking to at HB? I have a senior there now and there is plenty of pressure for kids to take a boatload of AP classes. Most of my child's friends and academic peers will have taken 11-14 AP classes by the time they graduate. Is that not a big enough boatload for you to consider them peers to kids at other schools?

This person isn't talking to anyone. They just have a beef about HB.

OP has a point though. The pressure to be a “top” student at WL is a lot higher than at HB, simply by the fact there are far fewer AP (and no IB) classes which means there is no advanced class arms race. Look at the PP, there are HB kids taking 6 APs, out of 14; you don’t think there are WL kids doing 6 AP/IB for much longer since they have like 40 advanced classes to mix and match.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:No pressure to take intensified classes since there aren’t any at HB and therefore kids will always be in the most rigorous classes for purposes of colleges until they take AP their junior or senior year. This does not seem fair.

What is the unfair advantage? Being less challenged before going on to college?

I don't know who the H-B hater is on this board but you need to find a productive hobby. This one is pretty sad.

Don’t be coy. The counselors will mark their transcript “most rigorous” and they are ranked the same as a IB diploma WL grad. Admissions aren’t looking at individual courses for every applicant. On top of the small school size it’s a great advantage.

They are challenged fine, because the on level courses can be taught with more rigor because they don’t have kids who can barely read with checkout parents in their general population (thanks opt in only lottery).

You don't get it at all. If the regular courses are taught with the same rigor and the kid gets a B+, it will be a B+ in a regular course. Much better to get a B+ in a course marked Intensified at a regular high school.

You don't get it. a B+ in gen ed is the same in the GPA as a B+ in intensified.

Oh boy, you really don't get it do you? Colleges don't give a hoot about the weighted GPA that each school sends to them. They look at the grades a student received in the rigor of classes. So yes, a B+ in a regular but just as intense as "intensified" class is going to look worse than a B+ in an "intensified" class.

Not if your school doesn't offer "intensified." and the reputation of your school is already well known by the colleges and universities - and it's a strong, respected program. This whole conversation is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:A bigger problem is that there are not enough AP classes that are offered so it's almost impossible to take as hard a course load as other schools unless you plan to take advanced classes elsewhere, which APS does not always recognize. However, you might need a crystal ball to know which courses may or may not be feasible to take in any given year at HB, not to mention the dearth of fine arts classes restrict you to certain time blocks only. Some AP courses, such as in science and math, traditionally conflict in time block so it may be impossible to fit them in during the 2 or 3 grades you're able to. All AP courses are very limited in number of classes offered per year so supply/demand forces students to wait until senior year to take the easier, more popular ones, thus having to take AP courses out of the traditional sequence. Some AP classes are taught along with the non-AP version of it so I'm guessing class prep for the AP test may be more difficult. Also, the availability of teachers is limited so it's not uncommon to see teachers teaching a particular course for the first time a kid is taking it, or is teaching an AP class that is outside the dept/field that they normally are teaching classes in; the teachers may know the material but since AP tests are standardized, they may have less familiarity with how best to prepare students for the actual test.

And, in general, if there is no true advanced level class for a course offered that has only very high performing students, the fact remains that any APS class, intensified or not, will probably be at a level where, if the kid is struggling, they're probably not looking at a college that actually cares about these lower level classes since APs will weigh more heavily anyhow. So yes, if you're an average student, the OP's argument may hold. But if you're competing with other kids from schools within/outside the county for a finite number of spots at competitive colleges, your transcript may not look as good. Just compare the colleges that HB kids get accepted to vs other high school kids.

Mom of HB student. There was almost no class time devoted to prep for AP exams. I am not sure if this is because HB has less class time or because the AP classes are combined with regular classes in the same period. For whatever reason, my kid had to prep on their own for AP exams. From an informal sample of their friends, HB AP scores were pretty low.

So, OP, you have no idea what you're talking about. HB is wonderful in many ways and I'm glad my kid went there. But it is NOT a better academic experience. It's just not.

As the parent of a HB student who graduated last year, I would agree with this. Overall, I was impressed by the teachers of the AP classes at HB, but I assume they are of similar caliber at Yorktown and W-L. My son was frustrated with the lack of offerings of AP classes as he wanted to take more. He ended up taking an AP class through Virtual Virginia his senior year, as well as Chinese virtually junior and senior year. There are also not as many elective choices as the larger schools, or the variety of clubs. It all worked out for him college-wise, but as an academically motivated student, he was sometimes frustrated with the lack of classes to choose from at HB.

There is another high school in Arlington, people! Wakefield has excellent AP teachers, too! But yes, I know....only the prime choice programs and north Arlington schools matter.
If student is frustrated by the offerings at HB, they can always leave and go to their neighborhood school.

HB parent here. Yes we are aware, we are just responding to the delusional poster who thinks HB kids have an advantage by having fewer classes available to then. That's not a thing.

Yes, but responders mention YHS and WL, never WHS.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't think its a good idea for kids to take this many APs, anyhow. If they are really college-level classes, albeit spread over 2 semesters, that's a lot of work. I--like most people--took 4 college level classes per semester in college, and was not juggling 2 or 3 OTHER classes that had homework, papers, tests, etc. I never took higher level math, a lab science, reading and paper-heavy English and social science, and a language in the same semester.

This is LITERALLY OP’s point.

The arms race for most AP and IB courses is exhausting, but if you don’t compete with your peers, you are no longer “most rigorous path”.

Meanwhile over at HB, kids don’t have to kill themselves because their peers simply can’t load up and escalate the AP course load.

No I'm saying I never took hhigher level math + a lab science + reading and paper-heavy English + a social science + a language in the same semester in college and I think it's kind of crazy that kids would do AP-level classes for all of those plus 2 or 3 other classes. For what? Read the college boards on Reddit, many of the kids doing this are miserable and the chances of getting in a top college are basically a crapshoot anyhow. Let them do a couple AP classes a year if they need/want the challenge but this loading up just to get their GPA up another tenth of a point or to go from "more rigorous" to "most rigorous" is crazy.

--mom of an H-b 11th grader and a current college student

That was my freshman year engineering major workload. I think it’s pretty typical.

Oh no language so that’s true.

Yes, we all took calc and chem and English comp and econ our freshman year college, whether or not we were engineering majors. We didn't take FIVE classes.

Yes engineers at my school take 5 classes per semester, and one of them is a lab class (I think I actually had two labs because my high school didn’t have AP).

Just looked it up. Freshman year:

Physics (lab)
advanced chem (lab)
Multivar calc
European lit
Constitutional interpretation intro

OK well I still don't think a high school junior shouldn't be under pressure to do that kind of work to be get into college, and if a kid is taking more than 14 APs in high school (which is the assertion made that started this discussion) then something somewhere is broken

I don't know what to tell you, PP. The world has changed. The state flagships that kids used to be able to get into with 3.5s, 1100 SATs and an AP class or two are now only accepting kids with 4.0s, 1500 SATs and 10+ APs. The 3.5 GPA, 1100 SAT kids can still go to college, but it will be a 2nd or 3rd tier state school or less selective private. And that's fine. THOSE KIDS WILL BE FINE.

OP somehow thinks that HB kids are slacking and still getting into t-20s, and this is not the case.

I know there is a difference between 3.5s, 1100 SATs and an AP class or two and 4.0s, 1500 SATs and 10+ APs. I'm saying there isn't a difference between 4.0s, 1500 SATs and 10+ APs and 4.0s, 1500 SATs and 4 APs, especially if you are an upper middle class kid with college educated parents coming from Arlington Virginia, and the parents and kids that stress themselves out taking that heavy a courseload junior and senior year are doing themselves a disservice, at the end of the day T20 admission is pretty much a lottery.

Its a lot of pressure during the school year, its a lot of pressure at exam time, and its a lot of pressure at application time--kids feel like they a) failed or b) wasted their high school years if/when they don't get into the top schools, which most won't just due to numbers. Why set up your kid for that, when they could have a more balanced experience, more realistic expectations (genuinely treat T-20 schools as a reach and not something they are entitled to because of their grades/scores), and better mental health?

If you are OP, that's an entirely different subject than you posted originally. The original premise was that kids at HB have an unfair advantage and don't have to take as many AP classes as others for their schedules to be considered of highest rigor. That statement is false. (If you're not OP, then my comment doesn't pertain to you. I happen to agree that the arms race is ridiculous and too much pressure. I just don't want anyone to think that kids at HB aren't experiencing the very same things that kids at other high schools are. They just have fewer options. That's the only difference.)

+1 from another HB parent. Same pressure. If anyone thinks HB kids are a bunch of low-key slackers, think again. My HB senior took 9 AP classes, and many kids took even more. I know of one student who took SIX AP classes at one time.

My non-HB kid is will have taken 8 AP classes by graduation, 5 of them as a senior - despite the 20-whatever AP classes offered. I think OP is off their rocker and ignorant of what the majority of students are taking. Yes, there is what is probably a relatively small % of students taking egads of AP level courses. But I don't see how any student can even fit 20 AP classes into their 4 years. If HB only offered 2 or 3 AP classes, I could start to see a disadvantage relative to other Arlington high schools. But they don't. They offer more than most students at any high school end up taking.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't think its a good idea for kids to take this many APs, anyhow. If they are really college-level classes, albeit spread over 2 semesters, that's a lot of work. I--like most people--took 4 college level classes per semester in college, and was not juggling 2 or 3 OTHER classes that had homework, papers, tests, etc. I never took higher level math, a lab science, reading and paper-heavy English and social science, and a language in the same semester.

This is LITERALLY OP’s point.

The arms race for most AP and IB courses is exhausting, but if you don’t compete with your peers, you are no longer “most rigorous path”.

Meanwhile over at HB, kids don’t have to kill themselves because their peers simply can’t load up and escalate the AP course load.

No I'm saying I never took hhigher level math + a lab science + reading and paper-heavy English + a social science + a language in the same semester in college and I think it's kind of crazy that kids would do AP-level classes for all of those plus 2 or 3 other classes. For what? Read the college boards on Reddit, many of the kids doing this are miserable and the chances of getting in a top college are basically a crapshoot anyhow. Let them do a couple AP classes a year if they need/want the challenge but this loading up just to get their GPA up another tenth of a point or to go from "more rigorous" to "most rigorous" is crazy.

--mom of an H-b 11th grader and a current college student

That was my freshman year engineering major workload. I think it’s pretty typical.

Oh no language so that’s true.

Yes, we all took calc and chem and English comp and econ our freshman year college, whether or not we were engineering majors. We didn't take FIVE classes.

Um, that's not true. I tested out of the English requirement and I never took calculus. My first college semester (and every semester) was 5 classes or more. First semester included an easy elective in place of the English class, beginning a new language (Russian), Russian literature, physiology, and psychology. Least # credit hours in any semester was 16. (I happen to have my transcript out, therefore I can confirm I took 16 - 18 credit hours every semester for 8 semesters)

I guess the PP that said that APs are not really at the level of a top college but maybe compare with classes at less selective colleges was right then. T-10 universities and SLACs don't award full credit for most APs and have 4 classes per semester.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think its a good idea for kids to take this many APs, anyhow. If they are really college-level classes, albeit spread over 2 semesters, that's a lot of work. I--like most people--took 4 college level classes per semester in college, and was not juggling 2 or 3 OTHER classes that had homework, papers, tests, etc. I never took higher level math, a lab science, reading and paper-heavy English and social science, and a language in the same semester.

This is LITERALLY OP’s point.

The arms race for most AP and IB courses is exhausting, but if you don’t compete with your peers, you are no longer “most rigorous path”.

Meanwhile over at HB, kids don’t have to kill themselves because their peers simply can’t load up and escalate the AP course load.

No I'm saying I never took higher level math + a lab science + reading and paper-heavy English + a social science + a language in the same semester in college and I think it's kind of crazy that kids would do AP-level classes for all of those plus 2 or 3 other classes. For what? Read the college boards on Reddit, many of the kids doing this are miserable and the chances of getting in a top college are basically a crapshoot anyhow. Let them do a couple AP classes a year if they need/want the challenge but this loading up just to get their GPA up another tenth of a point or to go from "more rigorous" to "most rigorous" is crazy.

--mom of an H-b 11th grader and a current college student

Look, if you expect a kid who takes 2-3 APs to be compared equally to a kid that has taken 10-12, you are delusional. The kid taking the 10-12 APs either has higher aptitude or stronger work ethic (likely both) than the other kid. If you want to get into a t-20 school, you're going to have to suck it up and play the game. If t-20 isn't your goal, then you can relax a bit and not take such a demanding course load. It is all about choices. Don't be mad at the ambitious kids. FYI - the ambitious kids at ANY of the APS high schools do just fine. I don't really believe that any APS individual school gives a measurable advantage as far as I've seen.

The point is the ambitious kids at HB don’t have take the boatload of AP because they don’t have peers trying to. So not an advantage for admission per se, but they get same opportunities with less effort.

Who are you talking to at HB? I have a senior there now and there is plenty of pressure for kids to take a boatload of AP classes. Most of my child's friends and academic peers will have taken 11-14 AP classes by the time they graduate. Is that not a big enough boatload for you to consider them peers to kids at other schools?

This person isn't talking to anyone. They just have a beef about HB.

OP has a point though. The pressure to be a “top” student at WL is a lot higher than at HB, simply by the fact there are far fewer AP (and no IB) classes which means there is no advanced class arms race. Look at the PP, there are HB kids taking 6 APs, out of 14; you don’t think there are WL kids doing 6 AP/IB for much longer since they have like 40 advanced classes to mix and match.

no because the kids aren't mental this is all about parental anxiety

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think its a good idea for kids to take this many APs, anyhow. If they are really college-level classes, albeit spread over 2 semesters, that's a lot of work. I--like most people--took 4 college level classes per semester in college, and was not juggling 2 or 3 OTHER classes that had homework, papers, tests, etc. I never took higher level math, a lab science, reading and paper-heavy English and social science, and a language in the same semester.

This is LITERALLY OP’s point.

The arms race for most AP and IB courses is exhausting, but if you don’t compete with your peers, you are no longer “most rigorous path”.

Meanwhile over at HB, kids don’t have to kill themselves because their peers simply can’t load up and escalate the AP course load.

No I'm saying I never took higher level math + a lab science + reading and paper-heavy English + a social science + a language in the same semester in college and I think it's kind of crazy that kids would do AP-level classes for all of those plus 2 or 3 other classes. For what? Read the college boards on Reddit, many of the kids doing this are miserable and the chances of getting in a top college are basically a crapshoot anyhow. Let them do a couple AP classes a year if they need/want the challenge but this loading up just to get their GPA up another tenth of a point or to go from "more rigorous" to "most rigorous" is crazy.

--mom of an H-b 11th grader and a current college student

Look, if you expect a kid who takes 2-3 APs to be compared equally to a kid that has taken 10-12, you are delusional. The kid taking the 10-12 APs either has higher aptitude or stronger work ethic (likely both) than the other kid. If you want to get into a t-20 school, you're going to have to suck it up and play the game. If t-20 isn't your goal, then you can relax a bit and not take such a demanding course load. It is all about choices. Don't be mad at the ambitious kids. FYI - the ambitious kids at ANY of the APS high schools do just fine. I don't really believe that any APS individual school gives a measurable advantage as far as I've seen.

The point is the ambitious kids at HB don’t have take the boatload of AP because they don’t have peers trying to. So not an advantage for admission per se, but they get same opportunities with less effort.

Who are you talking to at HB? I have a senior there now and there is plenty of pressure for kids to take a boatload of AP classes. Most of my child's friends and academic peers will have taken 11-14 AP classes by the time they graduate. Is that not a big enough boatload for you to consider them peers to kids at other schools?

This person isn't talking to anyone. They just have a beef about HB.

OP has a point though. The pressure to be a “top” student at WL is a lot higher than at HB, simply by the fact there are far fewer AP (and no IB) classes which means there is no advanced class arms race. Look at the PP, there are HB kids taking 6 APs, out of 14; you don’t think there are WL kids doing 6 AP/IB for much longer since they have like 40 advanced classes to mix and match.

I've been to WL. This is not why it's a greater pressure cooker. It's just in the air there. You feel it when you walk in the door. Those kids are stressed and it's not all coming from the school. The kids do it to themselves, their parents contribute. The presence of IB there does add to it when you compare to the other schools; but it's a MUCH MUCH larger school - which makes it harder to be at the top right off the bat - with a community constantly touting how incredibly great and top-notch and successful the school is yadda yadda.

Part of the lure of HBW program is precisely the "freedom" students have - the atmosphere is much more casual and relaxed. That doesn't mean students aren't taking a substantial courseload, or a workload less than high achieving students at YHS or WHS. The only difference is WL because of IB, making it the school with the most rigorous offerings. However, I would argue AT is a very demanding program and gets shafted in this whole debate.

Nevertheless, I'd say the problem is WL. It's the one with higher expectations and greater pressure on its students. Eliminate the ability of any WL student to access individual IB classes and see what impact that has. Make IB a truly separate program. OP is wrong. Non-full IB WL students are the ones with the advantages, if anyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think its a good idea for kids to take this many APs, anyhow. If they are really college-level classes, albeit spread over 2 semesters, that's a lot of work. I--like most people--took 4 college level classes per semester in college, and was not juggling 2 or 3 OTHER classes that had homework, papers, tests, etc. I never took higher level math, a lab science, reading and paper-heavy English and social science, and a language in the same semester.

This is LITERALLY OP’s point.

The arms race for most AP and IB courses is exhausting, but if you don’t compete with your peers, you are no longer “most rigorous path”.

Meanwhile over at HB, kids don’t have to kill themselves because their peers simply can’t load up and escalate the AP course load.

No I'm saying I never took higher level math + a lab science + reading and paper-heavy English + a social science + a language in the same semester in college and I think it's kind of crazy that kids would do AP-level classes for all of those plus 2 or 3 other classes. For what? Read the college boards on Reddit, many of the kids doing this are miserable and the chances of getting in a top college are basically a crapshoot anyhow. Let them do a couple AP classes a year if they need/want the challenge but this loading up just to get their GPA up another tenth of a point or to go from "more rigorous" to "most rigorous" is crazy.

--mom of an H-b 11th grader and a current college student

Look, if you expect a kid who takes 2-3 APs to be compared equally to a kid that has taken 10-12, you are delusional. The kid taking the 10-12 APs either has higher aptitude or stronger work ethic (likely both) than the other kid. If you want to get into a t-20 school, you're going to have to suck it up and play the game. If t-20 isn't your goal, then you can relax a bit and not take such a demanding course load. It is all about choices. Don't be mad at the ambitious kids. FYI - the ambitious kids at ANY of the APS high schools do just fine. I don't really believe that any APS individual school gives a measurable advantage as far as I've seen.

The point is the ambitious kids at HB don’t have take the boatload of AP because they don’t have peers trying to. So not an advantage for admission per se, but they get same opportunities with less effort.

Who are you talking to at HB? I have a senior there now and there is plenty of pressure for kids to take a boatload of AP classes. Most of my child's friends and academic peers will have taken 11-14 AP classes by the time they graduate. Is that not a big enough boatload for you to consider them peers to kids at other schools?

This person isn't talking to anyone. They just have a beef about HB.

OP has a point though. The pressure to be a “top” student at WL is a lot higher than at HB, simply by the fact there are far fewer AP (and no IB) classes which means there is no advanced class arms race. Look at the PP, there are HB kids taking 6 APs, out of 14; you don’t think there are WL kids doing 6 AP/IB for much longer since they have like 40 advanced classes to mix and match.

This makes no sense. You don't think there are students at WL who "only" take 6 AP/IB courses? Just because there are 40 advanced classes offered doesn't mean the majority take as many as possible. WL (and Yorktown and Wakefield) are also much larger schools than HB so numbers wise, yes there are probably more students taking more advanced classes at those schools. But percentage wise? I doubt it. How many AP classes do you think students should be taking to be competitive?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think its a good idea for kids to take this many APs, anyhow. If they are really college-level classes, albeit spread over 2 semesters, that's a lot of work. I--like most people--took 4 college level classes per semester in college, and was not juggling 2 or 3 OTHER classes that had homework, papers, tests, etc. I never took higher level math, a lab science, reading and paper-heavy English and social science, and a language in the same semester.

This is LITERALLY OP’s point.

The arms race for most AP and IB courses is exhausting, but if you don’t compete with your peers, you are no longer “most rigorous path”.

Meanwhile over at HB, kids don’t have to kill themselves because their peers simply can’t load up and escalate the AP course load.

No I'm saying I never took higher level math + a lab science + reading and paper-heavy English + a social science + a language in the same semester in college and I think it's kind of crazy that kids would do AP-level classes for all of those plus 2 or 3 other classes. For what? Read the college boards on Reddit, many of the kids doing this are miserable and the chances of getting in a top college are basically a crapshoot anyhow. Let them do a couple AP classes a year if they need/want the challenge but this loading up just to get their GPA up another tenth of a point or to go from "more rigorous" to "most rigorous" is crazy.

--mom of an H-b 11th grader and a current college student

Look, if you expect a kid who takes 2-3 APs to be compared equally to a kid that has taken 10-12, you are delusional. The kid taking the 10-12 APs either has higher aptitude or stronger work ethic (likely both) than the other kid. If you want to get into a t-20 school, you're going to have to suck it up and play the game. If t-20 isn't your goal, then you can relax a bit and not take such a demanding course load. It is all about choices. Don't be mad at the ambitious kids. FYI - the ambitious kids at ANY of the APS high schools do just fine. I don't really believe that any APS individual school gives a measurable advantage as far as I've seen.

The point is the ambitious kids at HB don’t have take the boatload of AP because they don’t have peers trying to. So not an advantage for admission per se, but they get same opportunities with less effort.

Who are you talking to at HB? I have a senior there now and there is plenty of pressure for kids to take a boatload of AP classes. Most of my child's friends and academic peers will have taken 11-14 AP classes by the time they graduate. Is that not a big enough boatload for you to consider them peers to kids at other schools?

This person isn't talking to anyone. They just have a beef about HB.

OP has a point though. The pressure to be a “top” student at WL is a lot higher than at HB, simply by the fact there are far fewer AP (and no IB) classes which means there is no advanced class arms race. Look at the PP, there are HB kids taking 6 APs, out of 14; you don’t think there are WL kids doing 6 AP/IB for much longer since they have like 40 advanced classes to mix and match.

I've been to WL. This is not why it's a greater pressure cooker. It's just in the air there. You feel it when you walk in the door. Those kids are stressed and it's not all coming from the school. The kids do it to themselves, their parents contribute. The presence of IB there does add to it when you compare to the other schools; but it's a MUCH MUCH larger school - which makes it harder to be at the top right off the bat - with a community constantly touting how incredibly great and top-notch and successful the school is yadda yadda.

Part of the lure of HBW program is precisely the "freedom" students have - the atmosphere is much more casual and relaxed. That doesn't mean students aren't taking a substantial courseload, or a workload less than high achieving students at YHS or WHS. The only difference is WL because of IB, making it the school with the most rigorous offerings. However, I would argue AT is a very demanding program and gets shafted in this whole debate.

Nevertheless, I'd say the problem is WL. It's the one with higher expectations and greater pressure on its students. Eliminate the ability of any WL student to access individual IB classes and see what impact that has. Make IB a truly separate program. OP is wrong. Non-full IB WL students are the ones with the advantages, if anyone.

I don't think this would really make much difference. WL already offers AP versions of most of the IB classes. There are just a few that are only IB and if it became IB-only-for-diploma students, there would be pressure for those teachers to just do another section as AP. Both my kids only took 1 IB class + the rest AP. Those were IBs that didn't have an AP alternative offered -- Economics, and Environmental Science. But AP alternatives do exist and WL could choose to offer those if there was enough demand.

I do think the pressure mostly comes from more high-achieving kids transferring in for the IB program, which ratchets things up for everyone. Even if the IB students took all their classes together in 11-12th, not with other WL students, they are all mixed together in 9-10th. I insisted my kids limit to 3 APs in junior year (they have ADHD) and they thought that was seen as a really light schedule, which is ridiculous. We also did not focus on talking about college, pushing for prestigious schools, etc. but DD still absorbed that from her peers. I realized in 10th grade we need to start being a lot more explicit about how there are many colleges where she could get a great education for her interests while still taking a healthy-for-her schedule.

[Anonymous]

Let’s not forget HB that there are no intensified classes offered. You keep talking about AP classes but fail to mention that your students are taking all basic classes with those. The students at Yorktown, Wakefield, and W&L are having to take these AP classes along with intensified classes to be competitive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let’s not forget HB that there are no intensified classes offered. You keep talking about AP classes but fail to mention that your students are taking all basic classes with those. The students at Yorktown, Wakefield, and W&L are having to take these AP classes along with intensified classes to be competitive.

You are very fixated on a small number of students at one school and how, you perceive, they have a leg up on your student. And really, given that not all students at HBW are aiming to compete for top schools, it’s really even a small cohort you are obsessing about.

My guess is that you wanted your high achieving student to attend HBW but did not get a spot. If that is the case, I am very sorry about that. Personally, I wish that HBW would get rid of the middle school and expand the high school seats so that more students can see if HBW is the right school for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let’s not forget HB that there are no intensified classes offered. You keep talking about AP classes but fail to mention that your students are taking all basic classes with those. The students at Yorktown, Wakefield, and W&L are having to take these AP classes along with intensified classes to be competitive.

In the end it didn't matter whether my kid got into H-B or went to their home school because in tenth grade they were diagnosed with schizophrenia and our expectation that they would go to a top college or university (which started diminishing in middle school) completely evaporated. Those of you who have kids with the capacity to handle multiple intensive or AP classes at any school and all of the other capabilities needed to get into and succeed in college should count your blessings and stop complaining about what you don't have. We had to learn how to convert a 529 into an ABLE account and now we worry about things like homelessness, not roommate issues. Take the W.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s not forget HB that there are no intensified classes offered. You keep talking about AP classes but fail to mention that your students are taking all basic classes with those. The students at Yorktown, Wakefield, and W&L are having to take these AP classes along with intensified classes to be competitive.

In the end it didn't matter whether my kid got into H-B or went to their home school because in tenth grade they were diagnosed with schizophrenia and our expectation that they would go to a top college or university (which started diminishing in middle school) completely evaporated. Those of you who have kids with the capacity to handle multiple intensive or AP classes at any school and all of the other capabilities needed to get into and succeed in college should count your blessings and stop complaining about what you don't have. We had to learn how to convert a 529 into an ABLE account and now we worry about things like homelessness, not roommate issues. Take the W.

I am so sorry to hear this. Sending you virtual hugs and hope that your kid is getting the help they need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I don't think its a good idea for kids to take this many APs, anyhow. If they are really college-level classes, albeit spread over 2 semesters, that's a lot of work. I--like most people--took 4 college level classes per semester in college, and was not juggling 2 or 3 OTHER classes that had homework, papers, tests, etc. I never took higher level math, a lab science, reading and paper-heavy English and social science, and a language in the same semester.

This is LITERALLY OP’s point.

The arms race for most AP and IB courses is exhausting, but if you don’t compete with your peers, you are no longer “most rigorous path”.

Meanwhile over at HB, kids don’t have to kill themselves because their peers simply can’t load up and escalate the AP course load.

No I'm saying I never took hhigher level math + a lab science + reading and paper-heavy English + a social science + a language in the same semester in college and I think it's kind of crazy that kids would do AP-level classes for all of those plus 2 or 3 other classes. For what? Read the college boards on Reddit, many of the kids doing this are miserable and the chances of getting in a top college are basically a crapshoot anyhow. Let them do a couple AP classes a year if they need/want the challenge but this loading up just to get their GPA up another tenth of a point or to go from "more rigorous" to "most rigorous" is crazy.

--mom of an H-b 11th grader and a current college student

That was my freshman year engineering major workload. I think it’s pretty typical.

Oh no language so that’s true.

Yes, we all took calc and chem and English comp and econ our freshman year college, whether or not we were engineering majors. We didn't take FIVE classes.

Speak for yourself. I took FIVE classes in college.

Same here. And I was a science major, so some of the classes had labs. Who routinely only takes 4 classes at a time in college?

[Anonymous]

I swear, it is always evident on this board that some people out there are just fixated on complaining about HB. Usually they have their facts wrong, but that doesn't seem to matter.

My guess this time is that OPs child knows someone at HB who got accepted someplace that they didn't. Now OP, despite the facts, has to complain that HB somehow has a leg up on other schools.

This fact-free bashing just gets so old.