HB Woodlawn provides unfair advantage to students for college since no intensified classes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No pressure to take intensified classes since there aren’t any at HB and therefore kids will always be in the most rigorous classes for purposes of colleges until they take AP their junior or senior year. This does not seem fair.

What is the unfair advantage? Being less challenged before going on to college?

I don't know who the H-B hater is on this board but you need to find a productive hobby. This one is pretty sad.

Don’t be coy. The counselors will mark their transcript “most rigorous” and they are ranked the same as a IB diploma WL grad. Admissions aren’t looking at individual courses for every applicant. On top of the small school size it’s a great advantage.

They are challenged fine, because the on level courses can be taught with more rigor because they don’t have kids who can barely read with checkout parents in their general population (thanks opt in only lottery).

College admissions is not some purely quantitative formula where every input matters down to the fourth decimal point. For one thing, rigor of the high school program is only looked at to evaluate the GPA, which is given less weight than test scores assuming you sent them in. And at most of the top 50-100 schools and at all of the public colleges and universities in Virginia, there are dozens if not hundreds of kids with the exact same stats and profiles. An H-B graduate versus an IB diploma from WL doesn't matter that much in a pool of 56,000 applications to UVA. The advantage at H-B is for the kids themselves--preparing them for college by giving them more independence and responsibility, and giving more individual-level support with the application process. But it's not an advantage in admissions decisions.

For out of state schools that like to advertise gaudy incoming freshman GPAs, the lack of weighted classes hurts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A bigger problem is that there are not enough AP classes that are offered so it's almost impossible to take as hard a course load as other schools unless you plan to take advanced classes elsewhere, which APS does not always recognize. However, you might need a crystal ball to know which courses may or may not be feasible to take in any given year at HB, not to mention the dearth of fine arts classes restrict you to certain time blocks only. Some AP courses, such as in science and math, traditionally conflict in time block so it may be impossible to fit them in during the 2 or 3 grades you're able to. All AP courses are very limited in number of classes offered per year so supply/demand forces students to wait until senior year to take the easier, more popular ones, thus having to take AP courses out of the traditional sequence. Some AP classes are taught along with the non-AP version of it so I'm guessing class prep for the AP test may be more difficult. Also, the availability of teachers is limited so it's not uncommon to see teachers teaching a particular course for the first time a kid is taking it, or is teaching an AP class that is outside the dept/field that they normally are teaching classes in; the teachers may know the material but since AP tests are standardized, they may have less familiarity with how best to prepare students for the actual test.

And, in general, if there is no true advanced level class for a course offered that has only very high performing students, the fact remains that any APS class, intensified or not, will probably be at a level where, if the kid is struggling, they're probably not looking at a college that actually cares about these lower level classes since APs will weigh more heavily anyhow. So yes, if you're an average student, the OP's argument may hold. But if you're competing with other kids from schools within/outside the county for a finite number of spots at competitive colleges, your transcript may not look as good. Just compare the colleges that HB kids get accepted to vs other high school kids.

Offer all the arguments you want, this is a CHOICE program that everyone there CHOOSES. If they don't like the offerings, they can go to their assigned high school. It's an "unfair advantage" AT students get so many DE classes and can graduate high school with an associate's degree; every non - WL student is "disadvantaged" because they can't access any IB classes but WL students can, even without doing the full IB program; etc.

Sorry, OP; but no sympathy or even agreement re an HB disadvantage. HB students are OPTING INto a HIGHLY-sought, HIGHLY-respected, HIGHLY-successful academic program. Graduates go on to attend high quality, selective colleges and universities. Not one single high school "has it all."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fun fact -- HB has eight class periods to allow students who need to leave early to go to sports at their home schools to do so. There is a lot of pressure on top-performing students to squeeze in an eighth class to load up on APs junior and senior year.

Cry harder, OP.

Okay? So WL has 21 AP courses and probably 35 IB courses.

HB has 14 AP courses, 3 of them different languages.

Taking the most rigorous path at HB is like phoning it in at WL.

Seriously? WL students aren't taking 21 AP courses or 35 IB courses. And I don't think HB students are taking 14 AP courses or AP courses in 3 languages. You're trying to compare a school's entire offerings and declare one "easy" because it doesn't have as many offerings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The time and energy that some of you have to devote to the absolute *minutiae* of your kids’ HS, and the minute theoretical impact that this thing or that may have on their college admissions process—and implicitly, their lives and worth as human beings?—is at once astounding, sad, and batsh&t insane.

Tell your kid you work hard, try new stuff, be kind. Eat dinner with them sometimes. The rest will take care of itself.

Yours is a white privilege argument. Not everyone has the accumulated generational wealth and extended family where a degree less of "success" or "wealth" can be mitigated. Not everyone can putz along in high school and college and gain easy entree in the professional fields that their parent, grandparent, or family friend are entrenched in. Not everyone has the comfort in knowing that they qualify for closer to 100% of the available seats at a given school/firm but other less desirables are gatekept by history or quotas and must fight with each other over a number of seats that is much fewer than 100%. White kids are allowed to mess up many times and call it growth through experience; others may not even get a second chance. How easy it is to gaslight others when you think you're punching down.

If you're speaking as a non-wealthy POC, fine. If you're not ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No pressure to take intensified classes since there aren’t any at HB and therefore kids will always be in the most rigorous classes for purposes of colleges until they take AP their junior or senior year. This does not seem fair.

What is the unfair advantage? Being less challenged before going on to college?

I don't know who the H-B hater is on this board but you need to find a productive hobby. This one is pretty sad.

Don’t be coy. The counselors will mark their transcript “most rigorous” and they are ranked the same as a IB diploma WL grad. Admissions aren’t looking at individual courses for every applicant. On top of the small school size it’s a great advantage.

They are challenged fine, because the on level courses can be taught with more rigor because they don’t have kids who can barely read with checkout parents in their general population (thanks opt in only lottery).

College admissions is not some purely quantitative formula where every input matters down to the fourth decimal point. For one thing, rigor of the high school program is only looked at to evaluate the GPA, which is given less weight than test scores assuming you sent them in. And at most of the top 50-100 schools and at all of the public colleges and universities in Virginia, there are dozens if not hundreds of kids with the exact same stats and profiles. An H-B graduate versus an IB diploma from WL doesn't matter that much in a pool of 56,000 applications to UVA. The advantage at H-B is for the kids themselves--preparing them for college by giving them more independence and responsibility, and giving more individual-level support with the application process. But it's not an advantage in admissions decisions.

"Who Gets In and Why" clearly showed they don't look at individual transcripts that closely, they mostly look at GPA combined with the flag as "most rigorous" course selection from the counselor. Which is way way easier to get with fewer tough courses at HB.

I guess you can say it doesn't matter because "numbers" but in the end its still an edge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fun fact -- HB has eight class periods to allow students who need to leave early to go to sports at their home schools to do so. There is a lot of pressure on top-performing students to squeeze in an eighth class to load up on APs junior and senior year.

Cry harder, OP.

Okay? So WL has 21 AP courses and probably 35 IB courses.

HB has 14 AP courses, 3 of them different languages.

Taking the most rigorous path at HB is like phoning it in at WL.

Seriously? WL students aren't taking 21 AP courses or 35 IB courses. And I don't think HB students are taking 14 AP courses or AP courses in 3 languages. You're trying to compare a school's entire offerings and declare one "easy" because it doesn't have as many offerings.

There are lots of WL students taking multiple AP and IB courses, and I guarantee that numbers is much greater than 14. And 14 isn't even possible at HB unless you take 3 different languages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No pressure to take intensified classes since there aren’t any at HB and therefore kids will always be in the most rigorous classes for purposes of colleges until they take AP their junior or senior year. This does not seem fair.

What is the unfair advantage? Being less challenged before going on to college?

I don't know who the H-B hater is on this board but you need to find a productive hobby. This one is pretty sad.

Don’t be coy. The counselors will mark their transcript “most rigorous” and they are ranked the same as a IB diploma WL grad. Admissions aren’t looking at individual courses for every applicant. On top of the small school size it’s a great advantage.

They are challenged fine, because the on level courses can be taught with more rigor because they don’t have kids who can barely read with checkout parents in their general population (thanks opt in only lottery).

College admissions is not some purely quantitative formula where every input matters down to the fourth decimal point. For one thing, rigor of the high school program is only looked at to evaluate the GPA, which is given less weight than test scores assuming you sent them in. And at most of the top 50-100 schools and at all of the public colleges and universities in Virginia, there are dozens if not hundreds of kids with the exact same stats and profiles. An H-B graduate versus an IB diploma from WL doesn't matter that much in a pool of 56,000 applications to UVA. The advantage at H-B is for the kids themselves--preparing them for college by giving them more independence and responsibility, and giving more individual-level support with the application process. But it's not an advantage in admissions decisions.

"Who Gets In and Why" clearly showed they don't look at individual transcripts that closely, they mostly look at GPA combined with the flag as "most rigorous" course selection from the counselor. Which is way way easier to get with fewer tough courses at HB.

I guess you can say it doesn't matter because "numbers" but in the end its still an edge.

I can't believe you think admissions counselors see these kids as anything other than "another UMC kid from northern VA with a 4.X and 15XX on the SAT and a bunch of ECs" and almost randomly pick some percentage of them to attend. They are all pretty much the same after a certain point, it just doesn't matter. Unclench.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fun fact -- HB has eight class periods to allow students who need to leave early to go to sports at their home schools to do so. There is a lot of pressure on top-performing students to squeeze in an eighth class to load up on APs junior and senior year.

Cry harder, OP.

Okay? So WL has 21 AP courses and probably 35 IB courses.

HB has 14 AP courses, 3 of them different languages.

Taking the most rigorous path at HB is like phoning it in at WL.

Seriously? WL students aren't taking 21 AP courses or 35 IB courses. And I don't think HB students are taking 14 AP courses or AP courses in 3 languages. You're trying to compare a school's entire offerings and declare one "easy" because it doesn't have as many offerings.

There are lots of WL students taking multiple AP and IB courses, and I guarantee that numbers is much greater than 14. And 14 isn't even possible at HB unless you take 3 different languages.

NP. But you think that a bunch of kids are taking many more than 14 AP classes? How? When? My kid will have multiple APs in 10th & almost nothing but APs in 11th & 12th and will still only end up with around 12 total.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fun fact -- HB has eight class periods to allow students who need to leave early to go to sports at their home schools to do so. There is a lot of pressure on top-performing students to squeeze in an eighth class to load up on APs junior and senior year.

Cry harder, OP.

Okay? So WL has 21 AP courses and probably 35 IB courses.

HB has 14 AP courses, 3 of them different languages.

Taking the most rigorous path at HB is like phoning it in at WL.

Seriously? WL students aren't taking 21 AP courses or 35 IB courses. And I don't think HB students are taking 14 AP courses or AP courses in 3 languages. You're trying to compare a school's entire offerings and declare one "easy" because it doesn't have as many offerings.

There are lots of WL students taking multiple AP and IB courses, and I guarantee that numbers is much greater than 14. And 14 isn't even possible at HB unless you take 3 different languages.

You would need 1 freshman year, 3 sophomore year, 5 junior year, and 5 senior year to get to 14. That is insane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No pressure to take intensified classes since there aren’t any at HB and therefore kids will always be in the most rigorous classes for purposes of colleges until they take AP their junior or senior year. This does not seem fair.

What is the unfair advantage? Being less challenged before going on to college?

I don't know who the H-B hater is on this board but you need to find a productive hobby. This one is pretty sad.

Don’t be coy. The counselors will mark their transcript “most rigorous” and they are ranked the same as a IB diploma WL grad. Admissions aren’t looking at individual courses for every applicant. On top of the small school size it’s a great advantage.

They are challenged fine, because the on level courses can be taught with more rigor because they don’t have kids who can barely read with checkout parents in their general population (thanks opt in only lottery).

College admissions is not some purely quantitative formula where every input matters down to the fourth decimal point. For one thing, rigor of the high school program is only looked at to evaluate the GPA, which is given less weight than test scores assuming you sent them in. And at most of the top 50-100 schools and at all of the public colleges and universities in Virginia, there are dozens if not hundreds of kids with the exact same stats and profiles. An H-B graduate versus an IB diploma from WL doesn't matter that much in a pool of 56,000 applications to UVA. The advantage at H-B is for the kids themselves--preparing them for college by giving them more independence and responsibility, and giving more individual-level support with the application process. But it's not an advantage in admissions decisions.

"Who Gets In and Why" clearly showed they don't look at individual transcripts that closely, they mostly look at GPA combined with the flag as "most rigorous" course selection from the counselor. Which is way way easier to get with fewer tough courses at HB.

I guess you can say it doesn't matter because "numbers" but in the end its still an edge.

I can't believe you think admissions counselors see these kids as anything other than "another UMC kid from northern VA with a 4.X and 15XX on the SAT and a bunch of ECs" and almost randomly pick some percentage of them to attend. They are all pretty much the same after a certain point, it just doesn't matter. Unclench.

Yes - based on admissions results as being relayed to me by my HB senior, this is the case. Having the stats will get you into the "maybe" pile, but what gets you in to the "yes" pile is 100% random, unless there is an actual hook.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No pressure to take intensified classes since there aren’t any at HB and therefore kids will always be in the most rigorous classes for purposes of colleges until they take AP their junior or senior year. This does not seem fair.

Good lord. The HB haters will find a way to spin anything. So it's somehow now an advantage NOT to have intensified classes when the other high schools have them. Ok......

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No pressure to take intensified classes since there aren’t any at HB and therefore kids will always be in the most rigorous classes for purposes of colleges until they take AP their junior or senior year. This does not seem fair.

What is the unfair advantage? Being less challenged before going on to college?

I don't know who the H-B hater is on this board but you need to find a productive hobby. This one is pretty sad.

Don’t be coy. The counselors will mark their transcript “most rigorous” and they are ranked the same as a IB diploma WL grad. Admissions aren’t looking at individual courses for every applicant. On top of the small school size it’s a great advantage.

They are challenged fine, because the on level courses can be taught with more rigor because they don’t have kids who can barely read with checkout parents in their general population (thanks opt in only lottery).

You don't get it at all. If the regular courses are taught with the same rigor and the kid gets a B+, it will be a B+ in a regular course. Much better to get a B+ in a course marked Intensified at a regular high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A bigger problem is that there are not enough AP classes that are offered so it's almost impossible to take as hard a course load as other schools unless you plan to take advanced classes elsewhere, which APS does not always recognize. However, you might need a crystal ball to know which courses may or may not be feasible to take in any given year at HB, not to mention the dearth of fine arts classes restrict you to certain time blocks only. Some AP courses, such as in science and math, traditionally conflict in time block so it may be impossible to fit them in during the 2 or 3 grades you're able to. All AP courses are very limited in number of classes offered per year so supply/demand forces students to wait until senior year to take the easier, more popular ones, thus having to take AP courses out of the traditional sequence. Some AP classes are taught along with the non-AP version of it so I'm guessing class prep for the AP test may be more difficult. Also, the availability of teachers is limited so it's not uncommon to see teachers teaching a particular course for the first time a kid is taking it, or is teaching an AP class that is outside the dept/field that they normally are teaching classes in; the teachers may know the material but since AP tests are standardized, they may have less familiarity with how best to prepare students for the actual test.

And, in general, if there is no true advanced level class for a course offered that has only very high performing students, the fact remains that any APS class, intensified or not, will probably be at a level where, if the kid is struggling, they're probably not looking at a college that actually cares about these lower level classes since APs will weigh more heavily anyhow. So yes, if you're an average student, the OP's argument may hold. But if you're competing with other kids from schools within/outside the county for a finite number of spots at competitive colleges, your transcript may not look as good. Just compare the colleges that HB kids get accepted to vs other high school kids.

Mom of HB student. There was almost no class time devoted to prep for AP exams. I am not sure if this is because HB has less class time or because the AP classes are combined with regular classes in the same period. For whatever reason, my kid had to prep on their own for AP exams. From an informal sample of their friends, HB AP scores were pretty low.

So, OP, you have no idea what you're talking about. HB is wonderful in many ways and I'm glad my kid went there. But it is NOT a better academic experience. It's just not.

[Anonymous]

Would love to understand what this post is about. Yes HB students have fewer options academically and that makes sense due to the size of the school. If anything, of all the programs at APS, kids at W-L have the leg up in the admissions process above all other schools since ONLY W-L kids are able to take AP and IB classes. And I’m sure that there are IB parents who would say that they are unfairly disadvantaged against the APS kids who get to attend the Thomas Jefferson science and tech high school. What does any of this matter though? As a parent, don’t split hairs and worry about things that don’t even impact your kid. Put that energy into your kid and focus on how to get the best education at the school they will be attending.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Would love to understand what this post is about. Yes HB students have fewer options academically and that makes sense due to the size of the school. If anything, of all the programs at APS, kids at W-L have the leg up in the admissions process above all other schools since ONLY W-L kids are able to take AP and IB classes. And I’m sure that there are IB parents who would say that they are unfairly disadvantaged against the APS kids who get to attend the Thomas Jefferson science and tech high school. What does any of this matter though? As a parent, don’t split hairs and worry about things that don’t even impact your kid. Put that energy into your kid and focus on how to get the best education at the school they will be attending.

Don't worry, there's nothing to understand. It's a ridiculous post. HB has far fewer class options than the other high schools. Kids who go there select the school in spite of this. It's a clear disadvantage. The OP has a ridiculous theory that HB kids are somehow advantaged by this. They are not.