HB Woodlawn provides unfair advantage to students for college since no intensified classes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A bigger problem is that there are not enough AP classes that are offered so it's almost impossible to take as hard a course load as other schools unless you plan to take advanced classes elsewhere, which APS does not always recognize. However, you might need a crystal ball to know which courses may or may not be feasible to take in any given year at HB, not to mention the dearth of fine arts classes restrict you to certain time blocks only. Some AP courses, such as in science and math, traditionally conflict in time block so it may be impossible to fit them in during the 2 or 3 grades you're able to. All AP courses are very limited in number of classes offered per year so supply/demand forces students to wait until senior year to take the easier, more popular ones, thus having to take AP courses out of the traditional sequence. Some AP classes are taught along with the non-AP version of it so I'm guessing class prep for the AP test may be more difficult. Also, the availability of teachers is limited so it's not uncommon to see teachers teaching a particular course for the first time a kid is taking it, or is teaching an AP class that is outside the dept/field that they normally are teaching classes in; the teachers may know the material but since AP tests are standardized, they may have less familiarity with how best to prepare students for the actual test.

And, in general, if there is no true advanced level class for a course offered that has only very high performing students, the fact remains that any APS class, intensified or not, will probably be at a level where, if the kid is struggling, they're probably not looking at a college that actually cares about these lower level classes since APs will weigh more heavily anyhow. So yes, if you're an average student, the OP's argument may hold. But if you're competing with other kids from schools within/outside the county for a finite number of spots at competitive colleges, your transcript may not look as good. Just compare the colleges that HB kids get accepted to vs other high school kids.

Mom of HB student. There was almost no class time devoted to prep for AP exams. I am not sure if this is because HB has less class time or because the AP classes are combined with regular classes in the same period. For whatever reason, my kid had to prep on their own for AP exams. From an informal sample of their friends, HB AP scores were pretty low.

So, OP, you have no idea what you're talking about. HB is wonderful in many ways and I'm glad my kid went there. But it is NOT a better academic experience. It's just not.

As the parent of a HB student who graduated last year, I would agree with this. Overall, I was impressed by the teachers of the AP classes at HB, but I assume they are of similar caliber at Yorktown and W-L. My son was frustrated with the lack of offerings of AP classes as he wanted to take more. He ended up taking an AP class through Virtual Virginia his senior year, as well as Chinese virtually junior and senior year. There are also not as many elective choices as the larger schools, or the variety of clubs. It all worked out for him college-wise, but as an academically motivated student, he was sometimes frustrated with the lack of classes to choose from at HB.

[Anonymous]

I don't think its a good idea for kids to take this many APs, anyhow. If they are really college-level classes, albeit spread over 2 semesters, that's a lot of work. I--like most people--took 4 college level classes per semester in college, and was not juggling 2 or 3 OTHER classes that had homework, papers, tests, etc. I never took higher level math, a lab science, reading and paper-heavy English and social science, and a language in the same semester.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think its a good idea for kids to take this many APs, anyhow. If they are really college-level classes, albeit spread over 2 semesters, that's a lot of work. I--like most people--took 4 college level classes per semester in college, and was not juggling 2 or 3 OTHER classes that had homework, papers, tests, etc. I never took higher level math, a lab science, reading and paper-heavy English and social science, and a language in the same semester.

APs are not really college level classes. At least not at the level of a top college. Maybe they compare with classes at less selective colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fun fact -- HB has eight class periods to allow students who need to leave early to go to sports at their home schools to do so. There is a lot of pressure on top-performing students to squeeze in an eighth class to load up on APs junior and senior year.

Cry harder, OP.

Okay? So WL has 21 AP courses and probably 35 IB courses.

HB has 14 AP courses, 3 of them different languages.

Taking the most rigorous path at HB is like phoning it in at WL.

Seriously? WL students aren't taking 21 AP courses or 35 IB courses. And I don't think HB students are taking 14 AP courses or AP courses in 3 languages. You're trying to compare a school's entire offerings and declare one "easy" because it doesn't have as many offerings.

There are lots of WL students taking multiple AP and IB courses, and I guarantee that numbers is much greater than 14. And 14 isn't even possible at HB unless you take 3 different languages.

So what?! So HB kids have a maximum of 12 v. the 14 WL students take. And so what if a small %age of WL students are taking more than 14? Schools still aren't going to take more than a few applicants from a single Arlington school, which means HB students have a comparable chance of getting into the various schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No pressure to take intensified classes since there aren’t any at HB and therefore kids will always be in the most rigorous classes for purposes of colleges until they take AP their junior or senior year. This does not seem fair.

What is the unfair advantage? Being less challenged before going on to college?

I don't know who the H-B hater is on this board but you need to find a productive hobby. This one is pretty sad.

Don’t be coy. The counselors will mark their transcript “most rigorous” and they are ranked the same as a IB diploma WL grad. Admissions aren’t looking at individual courses for every applicant. On top of the small school size it’s a great advantage.

They are challenged fine, because the on level courses can be taught with more rigor because they don’t have kids who can barely read with checkout parents in their general population (thanks opt in only lottery).

You don't get it at all. If the regular courses are taught with the same rigor and the kid gets a B+, it will be a B+ in a regular course. Much better to get a B+ in a course marked Intensified at a regular high school.

You don't get it. a B+ in gen ed is the same in the GPA as a B+ in intensified.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A bigger problem is that there are not enough AP classes that are offered so it's almost impossible to take as hard a course load as other schools unless you plan to take advanced classes elsewhere, which APS does not always recognize. However, you might need a crystal ball to know which courses may or may not be feasible to take in any given year at HB, not to mention the dearth of fine arts classes restrict you to certain time blocks only. Some AP courses, such as in science and math, traditionally conflict in time block so it may be impossible to fit them in during the 2 or 3 grades you're able to. All AP courses are very limited in number of classes offered per year so supply/demand forces students to wait until senior year to take the easier, more popular ones, thus having to take AP courses out of the traditional sequence. Some AP classes are taught along with the non-AP version of it so I'm guessing class prep for the AP test may be more difficult. Also, the availability of teachers is limited so it's not uncommon to see teachers teaching a particular course for the first time a kid is taking it, or is teaching an AP class that is outside the dept/field that they normally are teaching classes in; the teachers may know the material but since AP tests are standardized, they may have less familiarity with how best to prepare students for the actual test.

And, in general, if there is no true advanced level class for a course offered that has only very high performing students, the fact remains that any APS class, intensified or not, will probably be at a level where, if the kid is struggling, they're probably not looking at a college that actually cares about these lower level classes since APs will weigh more heavily anyhow. So yes, if you're an average student, the OP's argument may hold. But if you're competing with other kids from schools within/outside the county for a finite number of spots at competitive colleges, your transcript may not look as good. Just compare the colleges that HB kids get accepted to vs other high school kids.

Mom of HB student. There was almost no class time devoted to prep for AP exams. I am not sure if this is because HB has less class time or because the AP classes are combined with regular classes in the same period. For whatever reason, my kid had to prep on their own for AP exams. From an informal sample of their friends, HB AP scores were pretty low.

So, OP, you have no idea what you're talking about. HB is wonderful in many ways and I'm glad my kid went there. But it is NOT a better academic experience. It's just not.

As the parent of a HB student who graduated last year, I would agree with this. Overall, I was impressed by the teachers of the AP classes at HB, but I assume they are of similar caliber at Yorktown and W-L. My son was frustrated with the lack of offerings of AP classes as he wanted to take more. He ended up taking an AP class through Virtual Virginia his senior year, as well as Chinese virtually junior and senior year. There are also not as many elective choices as the larger schools, or the variety of clubs. It all worked out for him college-wise, but as an academically motivated student, he was sometimes frustrated with the lack of classes to choose from at HB.

There is another high school in Arlington, people! Wakefield has excellent AP teachers, too! But yes, I know....only the prime choice programs and north Arlington schools matter.
If student is frustrated by the offerings at HB, they can always leave and go to their neighborhood school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think its a good idea for kids to take this many APs, anyhow. If they are really college-level classes, albeit spread over 2 semesters, that's a lot of work. I--like most people--took 4 college level classes per semester in college, and was not juggling 2 or 3 OTHER classes that had homework, papers, tests, etc. I never took higher level math, a lab science, reading and paper-heavy English and social science, and a language in the same semester.

APs are not really college level classes. At least not at the level of a top college. Maybe they compare with classes at less selective colleges.

Then what's all the fuss about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fun fact -- HB has eight class periods to allow students who need to leave early to go to sports at their home schools to do so. There is a lot of pressure on top-performing students to squeeze in an eighth class to load up on APs junior and senior year.

Cry harder, OP.

Okay? So WL has 21 AP courses and probably 35 IB courses.

HB has 14 AP courses, 3 of them different languages.

Taking the most rigorous path at HB is like phoning it in at WL.

That's just downright silly. Are there kids at WL who either take or are expected to take all 21 AP classes in order to be viewed as "most rigorous?" If not, we're just talking about how many classes the kids can choose from. There are only so many periods in the day, and that number is not changed by the number of different AP choices there are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think its a good idea for kids to take this many APs, anyhow. If they are really college-level classes, albeit spread over 2 semesters, that's a lot of work. I--like most people--took 4 college level classes per semester in college, and was not juggling 2 or 3 OTHER classes that had homework, papers, tests, etc. I never took higher level math, a lab science, reading and paper-heavy English and social science, and a language in the same semester.

This is LITERALLY OP’s point.

The arms race for most AP and IB courses is exhausting, but if you don’t compete with your peers, you are no longer “most rigorous path”.

Meanwhile over at HB, kids don’t have to kill themselves because their peers simply can’t load up and escalate the AP course load.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The time and energy that some of you have to devote to the absolute *minutiae* of your kids’ HS, and the minute theoretical impact that this thing or that may have on their college admissions process—and implicitly, their lives and worth as human beings?—is at once astounding, sad, and batsh&t insane.

Tell your kid you work hard, try new stuff, be kind. Eat dinner with them sometimes. The rest will take care of itself.

Yours is a white privilege argument. Not everyone has the accumulated generational wealth and extended family where a degree less of "success" or "wealth" can be mitigated. Not everyone can putz along in high school and college and gain easy entree in the professional fields that their parent, grandparent, or family friend are entrenched in. Not everyone has the comfort in knowing that they qualify for closer to 100% of the available seats at a given school/firm but other less desirables are gatekept by history or quotas and must fight with each other over a number of seats that is much fewer than 100%. White kids are allowed to mess up many times and call it growth through experience; others may not even get a second chance. How easy it is to gaslight others when you think you're punching down.

Surprised you manage the strength to get out of bed every morning with this much self pity weighing you down.

I’m not white. My spouse isn’t white. My kids aren’t white. So what? If you have the time to undertake a comparative analysis of course offerings at various local HSs, then take to the internet to debate strangers over your pet theories, then yeah you’re more “privileged” than the vast, vast majority of families—for example the dirt poor non-white alcoholic one I grew up in. So give us all a break. You’re just another deranged hyper controlling parent hellbent on maximizing the financial value and social clout YOU derive from your child. It’s sad.

And regarding the portion in bold: quotas work the other way now. Everyone in any competitive professional or educational environment knows this. Stop deluding yourself into thinking it’s the 1940s. You sound like a loon when you make this assertion in 2024.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think its a good idea for kids to take this many APs, anyhow. If they are really college-level classes, albeit spread over 2 semesters, that's a lot of work. I--like most people--took 4 college level classes per semester in college, and was not juggling 2 or 3 OTHER classes that had homework, papers, tests, etc. I never took higher level math, a lab science, reading and paper-heavy English and social science, and a language in the same semester.

This is LITERALLY OP’s point.

The arms race for most AP and IB courses is exhausting, but if you don’t compete with your peers, you are no longer “most rigorous path”.

Meanwhile over at HB, kids don’t have to kill themselves because their peers simply can’t load up and escalate the AP course load.

My HB senior has taken 11 APs, as have several of his friends (1 freshman, 1 sophomore, 5 Junior, 4 senior).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think its a good idea for kids to take this many APs, anyhow. If they are really college-level classes, albeit spread over 2 semesters, that's a lot of work. I--like most people--took 4 college level classes per semester in college, and was not juggling 2 or 3 OTHER classes that had homework, papers, tests, etc. I never took higher level math, a lab science, reading and paper-heavy English and social science, and a language in the same semester.

This is LITERALLY OP’s point.

The arms race for most AP and IB courses is exhausting, but if you don’t compete with your peers, you are no longer “most rigorous path”.

Meanwhile over at HB, kids don’t have to kill themselves because their peers simply can’t load up and escalate the AP course load.

My HB senior has taken 11 APs, as have several of his friends (1 freshman, 1 sophomore, 5 Junior, 4 senior).

Same with my son who graduated from HB last year. By my count, he could have taken 2 more if he did AP Bio and AP Chemistry, but he's not a science kid. That's pretty comparable to what I know friends' kids are taking at other APS schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fun fact -- HB has eight class periods to allow students who need to leave early to go to sports at their home schools to do so. There is a lot of pressure on top-performing students to squeeze in an eighth class to load up on APs junior and senior year.

Cry harder, OP.

Okay? So WL has 21 AP courses and probably 35 IB courses.

HB has 14 AP courses, 3 of them different languages.

Taking the most rigorous path at HB is like phoning it in at WL.

That's just downright silly. Are there kids at WL who either take or are expected to take all 21 AP classes in order to be viewed as "most rigorous?" If not, we're just talking about how many classes the kids can choose from. There are only so many periods in the day, and that number is not changed by the number of different AP choices there are.

+1 Offering 21 AP classes does not mean a student is expected to take all of them. Even if a student took 7 APs both junior and senior year, that would mean 7 more split between 9th and 10th grade which doesn't happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think its a good idea for kids to take this many APs, anyhow. If they are really college-level classes, albeit spread over 2 semesters, that's a lot of work. I--like most people--took 4 college level classes per semester in college, and was not juggling 2 or 3 OTHER classes that had homework, papers, tests, etc. I never took higher level math, a lab science, reading and paper-heavy English and social science, and a language in the same semester.

This is LITERALLY OP’s point.

The arms race for most AP and IB courses is exhausting, but if you don’t compete with your peers, you are no longer “most rigorous path”.

Meanwhile over at HB, kids don’t have to kill themselves because their peers simply can’t load up and escalate the AP course load.

No I'm saying I never took higher level math + a lab science + reading and paper-heavy English + a social science + a language in the same semester in college and I think it's kind of crazy that kids would do AP-level classes for all of those plus 2 or 3 other classes. For what? Read the college boards on Reddit, many of the kids doing this are miserable and the chances of getting in a top college are basically a crapshoot anyhow. Let them do a couple AP classes a year if they need/want the challenge but this loading up just to get their GPA up another tenth of a point or to go from "more rigorous" to "most rigorous" is crazy.

--mom of an H-b 11th grader and a current college student

[Anonymous]

I always wondered who were the students who dropped out from prestigious, high demand STEM majors in college.