HB Woodlawn provides unfair advantage to students for college since no intensified classes

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't think its a good idea for kids to take this many APs, anyhow. If they are really college-level classes, albeit spread over 2 semesters, that's a lot of work. I--like most people--took 4 college level classes per semester in college, and was not juggling 2 or 3 OTHER classes that had homework, papers, tests, etc. I never took higher level math, a lab science, reading and paper-heavy English and social science, and a language in the same semester.

This is LITERALLY OP’s point.

The arms race for most AP and IB courses is exhausting, but if you don’t compete with your peers, you are no longer “most rigorous path”.

Meanwhile over at HB, kids don’t have to kill themselves because their peers simply can’t load up and escalate the AP course load.

No I'm saying I never took hhigher level math + a lab science + reading and paper-heavy English + a social science + a language in the same semester in college and I think it's kind of crazy that kids would do AP-level classes for all of those plus 2 or 3 other classes. For what? Read the college boards on Reddit, many of the kids doing this are miserable and the chances of getting in a top college are basically a crapshoot anyhow. Let them do a couple AP classes a year if they need/want the challenge but this loading up just to get their GPA up another tenth of a point or to go from "more rigorous" to "most rigorous" is crazy.

--mom of an H-b 11th grader and a current college student

That was my freshman year engineering major workload. I think it’s pretty typical.

Oh no language so that’s true.

Yes, we all took calc and chem and English comp and econ our freshman year college, whether or not we were engineering majors. We didn't take FIVE classes.

Yes engineers at my school take 5 classes per semester, and one of them is a lab class (I think I actually had two labs because my high school didn’t have AP).

Just looked it up. Freshman year:

Physics (lab)
advanced chem (lab)
Multivar calc
European lit
Constitutional interpretation intro

OK well I still don't think a high school junior shouldn't be under pressure to do that kind of work to be get into college, and if a kid is taking more than 14 APs in high school (which is the assertion made that started this discussion) then something somewhere is broken

I don't know what to tell you, PP. The world has changed. The state flagships that kids used to be able to get into with 3.5s, 1100 SATs and an AP class or two are now only accepting kids with 4.0s, 1500 SATs and 10+ APs. The 3.5 GPA, 1100 SAT kids can still go to college, but it will be a 2nd or 3rd tier state school or less selective private. And that's fine. THOSE KIDS WILL BE FINE.

OP somehow thinks that HB kids are slacking and still getting into t-20s, and this is not the case.

I know there is a difference between 3.5s, 1100 SATs and an AP class or two and 4.0s, 1500 SATs and 10+ APs. I'm saying there isn't a difference between 4.0s, 1500 SATs and 10+ APs and 4.0s, 1500 SATs and 4 APs, especially if you are an upper middle class kid with college educated parents coming from Arlington Virginia, and the parents and kids that stress themselves out taking that heavy a courseload junior and senior year are doing themselves a disservice, at the end of the day T20 admission is pretty much a lottery.

Its a lot of pressure during the school year, its a lot of pressure at exam time, and its a lot of pressure at application time--kids feel like they a) failed or b) wasted their high school years if/when they don't get into the top schools, which most won't just due to numbers. Why set up your kid for that, when they could have a more balanced experience, more realistic expectations (genuinely treat T-20 schools as a reach and not something they are entitled to because of their grades/scores), and better mental health?

PP, kids today know that t-20 is a lottery, where the cost of the ticket is high grades, high test scores, and lots of APs. This is how it is. You've got to pay to play. You seem to want a "more balanced experience" that has the same rewards, and that is not how it works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think its a good idea for kids to take this many APs, anyhow. If they are really college-level classes, albeit spread over 2 semesters, that's a lot of work. I--like most people--took 4 college level classes per semester in college, and was not juggling 2 or 3 OTHER classes that had homework, papers, tests, etc. I never took higher level math, a lab science, reading and paper-heavy English and social science, and a language in the same semester.

This is LITERALLY OP’s point.

The arms race for most AP and IB courses is exhausting, but if you don’t compete with your peers, you are no longer “most rigorous path”.

Meanwhile over at HB, kids don’t have to kill themselves because their peers simply can’t load up and escalate the AP course load.

No I'm saying I never took hhigher level math + a lab science + reading and paper-heavy English + a social science + a language in the same semester in college and I think it's kind of crazy that kids would do AP-level classes for all of those plus 2 or 3 other classes. For what? Read the college boards on Reddit, many of the kids doing this are miserable and the chances of getting in a top college are basically a crapshoot anyhow. Let them do a couple AP classes a year if they need/want the challenge but this loading up just to get their GPA up another tenth of a point or to go from "more rigorous" to "most rigorous" is crazy.

--mom of an H-b 11th grader and a current college student

That was my freshman year engineering major workload. I think it’s pretty typical.

Oh no language so that’s true.

Yes, we all took calc and chem and English comp and econ our freshman year college, whether or not we were engineering majors. We didn't take FIVE classes.

Yes engineers at my school take 5 classes per semester, and one of them is a lab class (I think I actually had two labs because my high school didn’t have AP).

Just looked it up. Freshman year:

Physics (lab)
advanced chem (lab)
Multivar calc
European lit
Constitutional interpretation intro

OK well I still don't think a high school junior shouldn't be under pressure to do that kind of work to be get into college, and if a kid is taking more than 14 APs in high school (which is the assertion made that started this discussion) then something somewhere is broken

I don't know what to tell you, PP. The world has changed. The state flagships that kids used to be able to get into with 3.5s, 1100 SATs and an AP class or two are now only accepting kids with 4.0s, 1500 SATs and 10+ APs. The 3.5 GPA, 1100 SAT kids can still go to college, but it will be a 2nd or 3rd tier state school or less selective private. And that's fine. THOSE KIDS WILL BE FINE.

OP somehow thinks that HB kids are slacking and still getting into t-20s, and this is not the case.

I know there is a difference between 3.5s, 1100 SATs and an AP class or two and 4.0s, 1500 SATs and 10+ APs. I'm saying there isn't a difference between 4.0s, 1500 SATs and 10+ APs and 4.0s, 1500 SATs and 4 APs, especially if you are an upper middle class kid with college educated parents coming from Arlington Virginia, and the parents and kids that stress themselves out taking that heavy a courseload junior and senior year are doing themselves a disservice, at the end of the day T20 admission is pretty much a lottery.

Its a lot of pressure during the school year, its a lot of pressure at exam time, and its a lot of pressure at application time--kids feel like they a) failed or b) wasted their high school years if/when they don't get into the top schools, which most won't just due to numbers. Why set up your kid for that, when they could have a more balanced experience, more realistic expectations (genuinely treat T-20 schools as a reach and not something they are entitled to because of their grades/scores), and better mental health?

If you are OP, that's an entirely different subject than you posted originally. The original premise was that kids at HB have an unfair advantage and don't have to take as many AP classes as others for their schedules to be considered of highest rigor. That statement is false. (If you're not OP, then my comment doesn't pertain to you. I happen to agree that the arms race is ridiculous and too much pressure. I just don't want anyone to think that kids at HB aren't experiencing the very same things that kids at other high schools are. They just have fewer options. That's the only difference.)

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think its a good idea for kids to take this many APs, anyhow. If they are really college-level classes, albeit spread over 2 semesters, that's a lot of work. I--like most people--took 4 college level classes per semester in college, and was not juggling 2 or 3 OTHER classes that had homework, papers, tests, etc. I never took higher level math, a lab science, reading and paper-heavy English and social science, and a language in the same semester.

This is LITERALLY OP’s point.

The arms race for most AP and IB courses is exhausting, but if you don’t compete with your peers, you are no longer “most rigorous path”.

Meanwhile over at HB, kids don’t have to kill themselves because their peers simply can’t load up and escalate the AP course load.

No I'm saying I never took hhigher level math + a lab science + reading and paper-heavy English + a social science + a language in the same semester in college and I think it's kind of crazy that kids would do AP-level classes for all of those plus 2 or 3 other classes. For what? Read the college boards on Reddit, many of the kids doing this are miserable and the chances of getting in a top college are basically a crapshoot anyhow. Let them do a couple AP classes a year if they need/want the challenge but this loading up just to get their GPA up another tenth of a point or to go from "more rigorous" to "most rigorous" is crazy.

--mom of an H-b 11th grader and a current college student

That was my freshman year engineering major workload. I think it’s pretty typical.

Oh no language so that’s true.

Yes, we all took calc and chem and English comp and econ our freshman year college, whether or not we were engineering majors. We didn't take FIVE classes.

Yes engineers at my school take 5 classes per semester, and one of them is a lab class (I think I actually had two labs because my high school didn’t have AP).

Just looked it up. Freshman year:

Physics (lab)
advanced chem (lab)
Multivar calc
European lit
Constitutional interpretation intro

OK well I still don't think a high school junior shouldn't be under pressure to do that kind of work to be get into college, and if a kid is taking more than 14 APs in high school (which is the assertion made that started this discussion) then something somewhere is broken

I don't know what to tell you, PP. The world has changed. The state flagships that kids used to be able to get into with 3.5s, 1100 SATs and an AP class or two are now only accepting kids with 4.0s, 1500 SATs and 10+ APs. The 3.5 GPA, 1100 SAT kids can still go to college, but it will be a 2nd or 3rd tier state school or less selective private. And that's fine. THOSE KIDS WILL BE FINE.

OP somehow thinks that HB kids are slacking and still getting into t-20s, and this is not the case.

I know there is a difference between 3.5s, 1100 SATs and an AP class or two and 4.0s, 1500 SATs and 10+ APs. I'm saying there isn't a difference between 4.0s, 1500 SATs and 10+ APs and 4.0s, 1500 SATs and 4 APs, especially if you are an upper middle class kid with college educated parents coming from Arlington Virginia, and the parents and kids that stress themselves out taking that heavy a courseload junior and senior year are doing themselves a disservice, at the end of the day T20 admission is pretty much a lottery.

Its a lot of pressure during the school year, its a lot of pressure at exam time, and its a lot of pressure at application time--kids feel like they a) failed or b) wasted their high school years if/when they don't get into the top schools, which most won't just due to numbers. Why set up your kid for that, when they could have a more balanced experience, more realistic expectations (genuinely treat T-20 schools as a reach and not something they are entitled to because of their grades/scores), and better mental health?

PP, kids today know that t-20 is a lottery, where the cost of the ticket is high grades, high test scores, and lots of APs. This is how it is. You've got to pay to play. You seem to want a "more balanced experience" that has the same rewards, and that is not how it works.

There are no rewards for 90% of kids if we are talking about a group of schools that have 6-10% admit rates. Where do kids get the idea that they want to “buy a ticket” to this lottery? Crazy parents like OP, for starters, who fret about their child’s college admissions chances to the point that they raise concern about differences in how counselors rate course rigor among the various schools within the same system.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:No pressure to take intensified classes since there aren’t any at HB and therefore kids will always be in the most rigorous classes for purposes of colleges until they take AP their junior or senior year. This does not seem fair.

What is the unfair advantage? Being less challenged before going on to college?

I don't know who the H-B hater is on this board but you need to find a productive hobby. This one is pretty sad.

Don’t be coy. The counselors will mark their transcript “most rigorous” and they are ranked the same as a IB diploma WL grad. Admissions aren’t looking at individual courses for every applicant. On top of the small school size it’s a great advantage.

They are challenged fine, because the on level courses can be taught with more rigor because they don’t have kids who can barely read with checkout parents in their general population (thanks opt in only lottery).

You don't get it at all. If the regular courses are taught with the same rigor and the kid gets a B+, it will be a B+ in a regular course. Much better to get a B+ in a course marked Intensified at a regular high school.

You don't get it. a B+ in gen ed is the same in the GPA as a B+ in intensified.

Oh boy, you really don't get it do you? Colleges don't give a hoot about the weighted GPA that each school sends to them. They look at the grades a student received in the rigor of classes. So yes, a B+ in a regular but just as intense as "intensified" class is going to look worse than a B+ in an "intensified" class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No pressure to take intensified classes since there aren’t any at HB and therefore kids will always be in the most rigorous classes for purposes of colleges until they take AP their junior or senior year. This does not seem fair.

What is the unfair advantage? Being less challenged before going on to college?

I don't know who the H-B hater is on this board but you need to find a productive hobby. This one is pretty sad.

Don’t be coy. The counselors will mark their transcript “most rigorous” and they are ranked the same as a IB diploma WL grad. Admissions aren’t looking at individual courses for every applicant. On top of the small school size it’s a great advantage.

They are challenged fine, because the on level courses can be taught with more rigor because they don’t have kids who can barely read with checkout parents in their general population (thanks opt in only lottery).

College admissions is not some purely quantitative formula where every input matters down to the fourth decimal point. For one thing, rigor of the high school program is only looked at to evaluate the GPA, which is given less weight than test scores assuming you sent them in. And at most of the top 50-100 schools and at all of the public colleges and universities in Virginia, there are dozens if not hundreds of kids with the exact same stats and profiles. An H-B graduate versus an IB diploma from WL doesn't matter that much in a pool of 56,000 applications to UVA. The advantage at H-B is for the kids themselves--preparing them for college by giving them more independence and responsibility, and giving more individual-level support with the application process. But it's not an advantage in admissions decisions.

"Who Gets In and Why" clearly showed they don't look at individual transcripts that closely, they mostly look at GPA combined with the flag as "most rigorous" course selection from the counselor. Which is way way easier to get with fewer tough courses at HB.

I guess you can say it doesn't matter because "numbers" but in the end its still an edge.

lol, you read one book and think you know it all about college admissions. Get back to us after your kid actually goes through it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:A bigger problem is that there are not enough AP classes that are offered so it's almost impossible to take as hard a course load as other schools unless you plan to take advanced classes elsewhere, which APS does not always recognize. However, you might need a crystal ball to know which courses may or may not be feasible to take in any given year at HB, not to mention the dearth of fine arts classes restrict you to certain time blocks only. Some AP courses, such as in science and math, traditionally conflict in time block so it may be impossible to fit them in during the 2 or 3 grades you're able to. All AP courses are very limited in number of classes offered per year so supply/demand forces students to wait until senior year to take the easier, more popular ones, thus having to take AP courses out of the traditional sequence. Some AP classes are taught along with the non-AP version of it so I'm guessing class prep for the AP test may be more difficult. Also, the availability of teachers is limited so it's not uncommon to see teachers teaching a particular course for the first time a kid is taking it, or is teaching an AP class that is outside the dept/field that they normally are teaching classes in; the teachers may know the material but since AP tests are standardized, they may have less familiarity with how best to prepare students for the actual test.

And, in general, if there is no true advanced level class for a course offered that has only very high performing students, the fact remains that any APS class, intensified or not, will probably be at a level where, if the kid is struggling, they're probably not looking at a college that actually cares about these lower level classes since APs will weigh more heavily anyhow. So yes, if you're an average student, the OP's argument may hold. But if you're competing with other kids from schools within/outside the county for a finite number of spots at competitive colleges, your transcript may not look as good. Just compare the colleges that HB kids get accepted to vs other high school kids.

Mom of HB student. There was almost no class time devoted to prep for AP exams. I am not sure if this is because HB has less class time or because the AP classes are combined with regular classes in the same period. For whatever reason, my kid had to prep on their own for AP exams. From an informal sample of their friends, HB AP scores were pretty low.

So, OP, you have no idea what you're talking about. HB is wonderful in many ways and I'm glad my kid went there. But it is NOT a better academic experience. It's just not.

As the parent of a HB student who graduated last year, I would agree with this. Overall, I was impressed by the teachers of the AP classes at HB, but I assume they are of similar caliber at Yorktown and W-L. My son was frustrated with the lack of offerings of AP classes as he wanted to take more. He ended up taking an AP class through Virtual Virginia his senior year, as well as Chinese virtually junior and senior year. There are also not as many elective choices as the larger schools, or the variety of clubs. It all worked out for him college-wise, but as an academically motivated student, he was sometimes frustrated with the lack of classes to choose from at HB.

There is another high school in Arlington, people! Wakefield has excellent AP teachers, too! But yes, I know....only the prime choice programs and north Arlington schools matter.
If student is frustrated by the offerings at HB, they can always leave and go to their neighborhood school.

HB parent here. Yes we are aware, we are just responding to the delusional poster who thinks HB kids have an advantage by having fewer classes available to then. That's not a thing.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't think its a good idea for kids to take this many APs, anyhow. If they are really college-level classes, albeit spread over 2 semesters, that's a lot of work. I--like most people--took 4 college level classes per semester in college, and was not juggling 2 or 3 OTHER classes that had homework, papers, tests, etc. I never took higher level math, a lab science, reading and paper-heavy English and social science, and a language in the same semester.

This is LITERALLY OP’s point.

The arms race for most AP and IB courses is exhausting, but if you don’t compete with your peers, you are no longer “most rigorous path”.

Meanwhile over at HB, kids don’t have to kill themselves because their peers simply can’t load up and escalate the AP course load.

No I'm saying I never took higher level math + a lab science + reading and paper-heavy English + a social science + a language in the same semester in college and I think it's kind of crazy that kids would do AP-level classes for all of those plus 2 or 3 other classes. For what? Read the college boards on Reddit, many of the kids doing this are miserable and the chances of getting in a top college are basically a crapshoot anyhow. Let them do a couple AP classes a year if they need/want the challenge but this loading up just to get their GPA up another tenth of a point or to go from "more rigorous" to "most rigorous" is crazy.

--mom of an H-b 11th grader and a current college student

Look, if you expect a kid who takes 2-3 APs to be compared equally to a kid that has taken 10-12, you are delusional. The kid taking the 10-12 APs either has higher aptitude or stronger work ethic (likely both) than the other kid. If you want to get into a t-20 school, you're going to have to suck it up and play the game. If t-20 isn't your goal, then you can relax a bit and not take such a demanding course load. It is all about choices. Don't be mad at the ambitious kids. FYI - the ambitious kids at ANY of the APS high schools do just fine. I don't really believe that any APS individual school gives a measurable advantage as far as I've seen.

The point is the ambitious kids at HB don’t have take the boatload of AP because they don’t have peers trying to. So not an advantage for admission per se, but they get same opportunities with less effort.

This is clearly written by someone who doesn't know the AP courseload that actual HB students are taking.

I actually think there is more pressure to take APs at HB because it's either AP or regular. There is nothing in between.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think its a good idea for kids to take this many APs, anyhow. If they are really college-level classes, albeit spread over 2 semesters, that's a lot of work. I--like most people--took 4 college level classes per semester in college, and was not juggling 2 or 3 OTHER classes that had homework, papers, tests, etc. I never took higher level math, a lab science, reading and paper-heavy English and social science, and a language in the same semester.

This is LITERALLY OP’s point.

The arms race for most AP and IB courses is exhausting, but if you don’t compete with your peers, you are no longer “most rigorous path”.

Meanwhile over at HB, kids don’t have to kill themselves because their peers simply can’t load up and escalate the AP course load.

No I'm saying I never took hhigher level math + a lab science + reading and paper-heavy English + a social science + a language in the same semester in college and I think it's kind of crazy that kids would do AP-level classes for all of those plus 2 or 3 other classes. For what? Read the college boards on Reddit, many of the kids doing this are miserable and the chances of getting in a top college are basically a crapshoot anyhow. Let them do a couple AP classes a year if they need/want the challenge but this loading up just to get their GPA up another tenth of a point or to go from "more rigorous" to "most rigorous" is crazy.

--mom of an H-b 11th grader and a current college student

That was my freshman year engineering major workload. I think it’s pretty typical.

Oh no language so that’s true.

Yes, we all took calc and chem and English comp and econ our freshman year college, whether or not we were engineering majors. We didn't take FIVE classes.

Speak for yourself. I took FIVE classes in college.

[Anonymous]

This is my experience having one child HB, and one child at Washington and liberty. Washington and liberty is definitely more of a pressure cooker. My son picks up things quickly and is doing well at Washington and liberty but he definitely is stressed out and has a lot of homework. My daughter tries very hard but it’s not as academically gifted. She is at HB I can tell you she doesn’t have the level of homework that my son does. In addition, she has a free period every day that all HB students get and so she has an opportunity to do homework during that period. I’m not saying one is better than the other and I think for each of my kids are in the right school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think its a good idea for kids to take this many APs, anyhow. If they are really college-level classes, albeit spread over 2 semesters, that's a lot of work. I--like most people--took 4 college level classes per semester in college, and was not juggling 2 or 3 OTHER classes that had homework, papers, tests, etc. I never took higher level math, a lab science, reading and paper-heavy English and social science, and a language in the same semester.

This is LITERALLY OP’s point.

The arms race for most AP and IB courses is exhausting, but if you don’t compete with your peers, you are no longer “most rigorous path”.

Meanwhile over at HB, kids don’t have to kill themselves because their peers simply can’t load up and escalate the AP course load.

No I'm saying I never took hhigher level math + a lab science + reading and paper-heavy English + a social science + a language in the same semester in college and I think it's kind of crazy that kids would do AP-level classes for all of those plus 2 or 3 other classes. For what? Read the college boards on Reddit, many of the kids doing this are miserable and the chances of getting in a top college are basically a crapshoot anyhow. Let them do a couple AP classes a year if they need/want the challenge but this loading up just to get their GPA up another tenth of a point or to go from "more rigorous" to "most rigorous" is crazy.

--mom of an H-b 11th grader and a current college student

That was my freshman year engineering major workload. I think it’s pretty typical.

Oh no language so that’s true.

Yes, we all took calc and chem and English comp and econ our freshman year college, whether or not we were engineering majors. We didn't take FIVE classes.

Yes engineers at my school take 5 classes per semester, and one of them is a lab class (I think I actually had two labs because my high school didn’t have AP).

Just looked it up. Freshman year:

Physics (lab)
advanced chem (lab)
Multivar calc
European lit
Constitutional interpretation intro

OK well I still don't think a high school junior shouldn't be under pressure to do that kind of work to be get into college, and if a kid is taking more than 14 APs in high school (which is the assertion made that started this discussion) then something somewhere is broken

I don't know what to tell you, PP. The world has changed. The state flagships that kids used to be able to get into with 3.5s, 1100 SATs and an AP class or two are now only accepting kids with 4.0s, 1500 SATs and 10+ APs. The 3.5 GPA, 1100 SAT kids can still go to college, but it will be a 2nd or 3rd tier state school or less selective private. And that's fine. THOSE KIDS WILL BE FINE.

OP somehow thinks that HB kids are slacking and still getting into t-20s, and this is not the case.

I know there is a difference between 3.5s, 1100 SATs and an AP class or two and 4.0s, 1500 SATs and 10+ APs. I'm saying there isn't a difference between 4.0s, 1500 SATs and 10+ APs and 4.0s, 1500 SATs and 4 APs, especially if you are an upper middle class kid with college educated parents coming from Arlington Virginia, and the parents and kids that stress themselves out taking that heavy a courseload junior and senior year are doing themselves a disservice, at the end of the day T20 admission is pretty much a lottery.

Its a lot of pressure during the school year, its a lot of pressure at exam time, and its a lot of pressure at application time--kids feel like they a) failed or b) wasted their high school years if/when they don't get into the top schools, which most won't just due to numbers. Why set up your kid for that, when they could have a more balanced experience, more realistic expectations (genuinely treat T-20 schools as a reach and not something they are entitled to because of their grades/scores), and better mental health?

If you are OP, that's an entirely different subject than you posted originally. The original premise was that kids at HB have an unfair advantage and don't have to take as many AP classes as others for their schedules to be considered of highest rigor. That statement is false. (If you're not OP, then my comment doesn't pertain to you. I happen to agree that the arms race is ridiculous and too much pressure. I just don't want anyone to think that kids at HB aren't experiencing the very same things that kids at other high schools are. They just have fewer options. That's the only difference.)

+1 from another HB parent. Same pressure. If anyone thinks HB kids are a bunch of low-key slackers, think again. My HB senior took 9 AP classes, and many kids took even more. I know of one student who took SIX AP classes at one time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is my experience having one child HB, and one child at Washington and liberty. Washington and liberty is definitely more of a pressure cooker. My son picks up things quickly and is doing well at Washington and liberty but he definitely is stressed out and has a lot of homework. My daughter tries very hard but it’s not as academically gifted. She is at HB I can tell you she doesn’t have the level of homework that my son does. In addition, she has a free period every day that all HB students get and so she has an opportunity to do homework during that period. I’m not saying one is better than the other and I think for each of my kids are in the right school.

Is your son taking IB or AP, or a combo? I definitely think students who are doing the full IB diploma are under a lot of stress.

Also, are your son and daughter taking different classes? You say your daughter is not as academically gifted, does that mean she's not taking advanced classes, or not as many as your son? I could see that being a huge difference in stress level.

I do agree that in general HB is a bit more laid back. It's just the culture of the school - they have more whole school activities and fun events during the school day because they are smaller and can do that.

But there are still kids at HB taking a high academic load and they are certainly stressed out - perhaps more due to pressure on themselves vs. pressure from the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is my experience having one child HB, and one child at Washington and liberty. Washington and liberty is definitely more of a pressure cooker. My son picks up things quickly and is doing well at Washington and liberty but he definitely is stressed out and has a lot of homework. My daughter tries very hard but it’s not as academically gifted. She is at HB I can tell you she doesn’t have the level of homework that my son does. In addition, she has a free period every day that all HB students get and so she has an opportunity to do homework during that period. I’m not saying one is better than the other and I think for each of my kids are in the right school.

Is your son taking IB or AP, or a combo? I definitely think students who are doing the full IB diploma are under a lot of stress.

Also, are your son and daughter taking different classes? You say your daughter is not as academically gifted, does that mean she's not taking advanced classes, or not as many as your son? I could see that being a huge difference in stress level.

I do agree that in general HB is a bit more laid back. It's just the culture of the school - they have more whole school activities and fun events during the school day because they are smaller and can do that.

But there are still kids at HB taking a high academic load and they are certainly stressed out - perhaps more due to pressure on themselves vs. pressure from the school.

Or pressure from the parents. We were at BTSN and the Calc BC teacher was talking about all these amazing techniques he uses to help the kids understand and apply the mathematical concepts and there were parents who only wanted to know if the class would cover all the material for the AP exam, they could not have cared less about the kids being interested in math, only whether their kids would be able to get a 5.

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Anonymous wrote:No pressure to take intensified classes since there aren’t any at HB and therefore kids will always be in the most rigorous classes for purposes of colleges until they take AP their junior or senior year. This does not seem fair.

What is the unfair advantage? Being less challenged before going on to college?

I don't know who the H-B hater is on this board but you need to find a productive hobby. This one is pretty sad.

Don’t be coy. The counselors will mark their transcript “most rigorous” and they are ranked the same as a IB diploma WL grad. Admissions aren’t looking at individual courses for every applicant. On top of the small school size it’s a great advantage.

They are challenged fine, because the on level courses can be taught with more rigor because they don’t have kids who can barely read with checkout parents in their general population (thanks opt in only lottery).

College admissions is not some purely quantitative formula where every input matters down to the fourth decimal point. For one thing, rigor of the high school program is only looked at to evaluate the GPA, which is given less weight than test scores assuming you sent them in. And at most of the top 50-100 schools and at all of the public colleges and universities in Virginia, there are dozens if not hundreds of kids with the exact same stats and profiles. An H-B graduate versus an IB diploma from WL doesn't matter that much in a pool of 56,000 applications to UVA. The advantage at H-B is for the kids themselves--preparing them for college by giving them more independence and responsibility, and giving more individual-level support with the application process. But it's not an advantage in admissions decisions.

"Who Gets In and Why" clearly showed they don't look at individual transcripts that closely, they mostly look at GPA combined with the flag as "most rigorous" course selection from the counselor. Which is way way easier to get with fewer tough courses at HB.

I guess you can say it doesn't matter because "numbers" but in the end its still an edge.

lol, you read one book and think you know it all about college admissions. Get back to us after your kid actually goes through it.

That’s pretty myopic. Thinking your experience applying to what a dozen schools is more valuable than a deeply researched and referenced book by a respected author?

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Anonymous wrote:I don't think its a good idea for kids to take this many APs, anyhow. If they are really college-level classes, albeit spread over 2 semesters, that's a lot of work. I--like most people--took 4 college level classes per semester in college, and was not juggling 2 or 3 OTHER classes that had homework, papers, tests, etc. I never took higher level math, a lab science, reading and paper-heavy English and social science, and a language in the same semester.

This is LITERALLY OP’s point.

The arms race for most AP and IB courses is exhausting, but if you don’t compete with your peers, you are no longer “most rigorous path”.

Meanwhile over at HB, kids don’t have to kill themselves because their peers simply can’t load up and escalate the AP course load.

No I'm saying I never took hhigher level math + a lab science + reading and paper-heavy English + a social science + a language in the same semester in college and I think it's kind of crazy that kids would do AP-level classes for all of those plus 2 or 3 other classes. For what? Read the college boards on Reddit, many of the kids doing this are miserable and the chances of getting in a top college are basically a crapshoot anyhow. Let them do a couple AP classes a year if they need/want the challenge but this loading up just to get their GPA up another tenth of a point or to go from "more rigorous" to "most rigorous" is crazy.

--mom of an H-b 11th grader and a current college student

That was my freshman year engineering major workload. I think it’s pretty typical.

Oh no language so that’s true.

Yes, we all took calc and chem and English comp and econ our freshman year college, whether or not we were engineering majors. We didn't take FIVE classes.

Um, that's not true. I tested out of the English requirement and I never took calculus. My first college semester (and every semester) was 5 classes or more. First semester included an easy elective in place of the English class, beginning a new language (Russian), Russian literature, physiology, and psychology. Least # credit hours in any semester was 16. (I happen to have my transcript out, therefore I can confirm I took 16 - 18 credit hours every semester for 8 semesters)

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Anonymous wrote:I don't think its a good idea for kids to take this many APs, anyhow. If they are really college-level classes, albeit spread over 2 semesters, that's a lot of work. I--like most people--took 4 college level classes per semester in college, and was not juggling 2 or 3 OTHER classes that had homework, papers, tests, etc. I never took higher level math, a lab science, reading and paper-heavy English and social science, and a language in the same semester.

This is LITERALLY OP’s point.

The arms race for most AP and IB courses is exhausting, but if you don’t compete with your peers, you are no longer “most rigorous path”.

Meanwhile over at HB, kids don’t have to kill themselves because their peers simply can’t load up and escalate the AP course load.

No I'm saying I never took higher level math + a lab science + reading and paper-heavy English + a social science + a language in the same semester in college and I think it's kind of crazy that kids would do AP-level classes for all of those plus 2 or 3 other classes. For what? Read the college boards on Reddit, many of the kids doing this are miserable and the chances of getting in a top college are basically a crapshoot anyhow. Let them do a couple AP classes a year if they need/want the challenge but this loading up just to get their GPA up another tenth of a point or to go from "more rigorous" to "most rigorous" is crazy.

--mom of an H-b 11th grader and a current college student

Look, if you expect a kid who takes 2-3 APs to be compared equally to a kid that has taken 10-12, you are delusional. The kid taking the 10-12 APs either has higher aptitude or stronger work ethic (likely both) than the other kid. If you want to get into a t-20 school, you're going to have to suck it up and play the game. If t-20 isn't your goal, then you can relax a bit and not take such a demanding course load. It is all about choices. Don't be mad at the ambitious kids. FYI - the ambitious kids at ANY of the APS high schools do just fine. I don't really believe that any APS individual school gives a measurable advantage as far as I've seen.

The point is the ambitious kids at HB don’t have take the boatload of AP because they don’t have peers trying to. So not an advantage for admission per se, but they get same opportunities with less effort.

Who are you talking to at HB? I have a senior there now and there is plenty of pressure for kids to take a boatload of AP classes. Most of my child's friends and academic peers will have taken 11-14 AP classes by the time they graduate. Is that not a big enough boatload for you to consider them peers to kids at other schools?

This person isn't talking to anyone. They just have a beef about HB.