Mathcounts Chapter scores

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't think they've ever taken 15 kids.

One year before dropping to 12. Most places these were online contests.

Obviously, the logistical issues were different when the contests were online. There's still a limit in how many kids you reasonably can cram into a room for a contest, as well as how easily you can proctor and grade for all of the extra kids. It's kind of like how VA let almost everyone into the state round that year, when it's normally quite difficult to make it to state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn't Longfellow sent only 2 individuals from Chapter to State this year? I don't think their bench is so deep that we'd have to worry about the 13th.

True. No team in the area has such a deep bench that the #13 kid would have a legitimate shot at making state or nationals. I don't know what the numbers are this year, but last year, Longfellow had 8 kids qualify for AIME out of nearly 100 taking the AMC10, and likely at least half of those barely qualified. The majority of the 100 kids who took AMC 10 are the types in AoPS/RSM/Curie/Chinese School math classes who despite all of the training fell short. While I'm sure that #13 and on would have enjoyed competing, it's not like Mathcounts is excluding deeply talented kids.

Wondering how you know this, is this still public info, or is it no longer provided by MAA?

I didn't know that Longfellow gives the AMC 10 to kids; I thought they all have to take it somewhere else outside of their school. I wonder how many other middle schools in FCPS do this; probably very few.

It was published in Longfellow's news you choose feed. They definitely offer it at school and have done so for quite a long time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't think they've ever taken 15 kids.

One year before dropping to 12. Most places these were online contests.

Obviously, the logistical issues were different when the contests were online. There's still a limit in how many kids you reasonably can cram into a room for a contest, as well as how easily you can proctor and grade for all of the extra kids. It's kind of like how VA let almost everyone into the state round that year, when it's normally quite difficult to make it to state.

Not sure about NOVA contests, but the interest is way down in other chapters. Last year Blacksburg had only one other school in its chapter, and somehow got their whole team of 12 to state.

The issue at state is the main room is too crowded for intro/awards/countdown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn't Longfellow sent only 2 individuals from Chapter to State this year? I don't think their bench is so deep that we'd have to worry about the 13th.

Longfellow sent a four person team. They may have had two who competed as individuals.

Correct. That what I was saying. They had 6 students (all of which, btw, placed in the Top 25% at State), but the 2 of the 4 individuals from Chapter were not from Longfellow.
If Longfellow had 30 students that would be better than other NoVA schools they would have sent 8 (4+4), not just 6. That's why I said we don't need to worry about the student who's
ranked 13th at Longfellow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn't Longfellow sent only 2 individuals from Chapter to State this year? I don't think their bench is so deep that we'd have to worry about the 13th.

Longfellow sent a four person team. They may have had two who competed as individuals.

Correct. That what I was saying. They had 6 students (all of which, btw, placed in the Top 25% at State), but the 2 of the 4 individuals from Chapter were not from Longfellow.
If Longfellow had 30 students that would be better than other NoVA schools they would have sent 8 (4+4), not just 6. That's why I said we don't need to worry about the student who's
ranked 13th at Longfellow.

Longfellow doesn't need a monopoly on having the top 30 mathcounters in the chapter. What if Longfellow has 4 of the top 6, 7 of the top 10, 15 of the top 20, etc... does Bobby13 in Longfellow not get the opportunity to compete because s/he is unluckily in a too-good school?

Note that mathcounts is super-low stakes - no one is getting into MIT on their mathcounts accolades. We want Bobby13 to continue to be excited about math, rather than quit contest math because he can't even make his school team.

The logistical issues mentioned in this thread are secondary... We can always get a bigger room. I did math contests (and SATs) in a huge gym with 300+ students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't think they've ever taken 15 kids.

One year before dropping to 12. Most places these were online contests.

Obviously, the logistical issues were different when the contests were online. There's still a limit in how many kids you reasonably can cram into a room for a contest, as well as how easily you can proctor and grade for all of the extra kids. It's kind of like how VA let almost everyone into the state round that year, when it's normally quite difficult to make it to state.

Not sure about NOVA contests, but the interest is way down in other chapters. Last year Blacksburg had only one other school in its chapter, and somehow got their whole team of 12 to state.

The issue at state is the main room is too crowded for intro/awards/countdown.

The rules changed this year. Each chapter got to send 4 individuals, and chapters with high participation sent 2 teams, all other chapters sent only one team. They only combined VSPE chapters into one. This means that overall geographic diversity decreased even though the overall number of students participating (slightly) increased compared to the prior year. I have been told btw that the event used to be held at much larges venues in Richmond in the past.

BTW, the only reason here is the fact that it's an operation run by VSPE volunteers on a shoestring budget. And lets bless them and thank them for their work.

Not to bring politics into this, but in my book that's something that our government should fund and help organize. This may require giving some orders to the democratic holdovers in VDoE and worrying a little bit less about equity, but this what should happen. Certainly the countries with whom we compete have an awareness that it's in the public's interest to promote excellence, which means to have a wide pyramid from the top down (yes, including lots of kids who try for AMC10 but don't make it). And it wouldn't take much. Start with transportation grants to support teacher coaches' traveling expenses, for instance. Have superintendents report participation numbers in their districts. (They have to report all kinds of crab already.) Math is not like Lacrosse or FCA. Our future as a competitive society actually depends on it.

[Anonymous]

They _also_ combined chapters, not _only_.

And supers have to report crap, not crab.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They _also_ combined chapters, not _only_.

And supers have to report crap, not crab.

I agree that we have to be eternally grateful to the vspe volunteers.

A solution to the lack of volunteers is ti require that every chapter provide 2 proctors at State.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn't Longfellow sent only 2 individuals from Chapter to State this year? I don't think their bench is so deep that we'd have to worry about the 13th.

Longfellow sent a four person team. They may have had two who competed as individuals.

Correct. That what I was saying. They had 6 students (all of which, btw, placed in the Top 25% at State), but the 2 of the 4 individuals from Chapter were not from Longfellow.
If Longfellow had 30 students that would be better than other NoVA schools they would have sent 8 (4+4), not just 6. That's why I said we don't need to worry about the student who's
ranked 13th at Longfellow.

Longfellow doesn't need a monopoly on having the top 30 mathcounters in the chapter. What if Longfellow has 4 of the top 6, 7 of the top 10, 15 of the top 20, etc... does Bobby13 in Longfellow not get the opportunity to compete because s/he is unluckily in a too-good school?

Note that mathcounts is super-low stakes - no one is getting into MIT on their mathcounts accolades. We want Bobby13 to continue to be excited about math, rather than quit contest math because he can't even make his school team.

The logistical issues mentioned in this thread are secondary... We can always get a bigger room. I did math contests (and SATs) in a huge gym with 300+ students.

Bobby13 isn't going to quit because she can't get on the Mathcounts team. There are other opportunities (AMC8/10/12) that don't have geographical quotas.
Pretty much any competitive undertaking has geographical "diversity" as its goal (or subgoal), from the US Chess Championships to the Olympics. And they're complemented by other events.
So while event sizes could (and should!) certainly be increased, this is not as big of an issue in my opinion as MAA's refusal to publish honor rolls (which is outrageous and is what really discourages Bobby13 if she makes the honor roll or DHR).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn't Longfellow sent only 2 individuals from Chapter to State this year? I don't think their bench is so deep that we'd have to worry about the 13th.

True. No team in the area has such a deep bench that the #13 kid would have a legitimate shot at making state or nationals. I don't know what the numbers are this year, but last year, Longfellow had 8 kids qualify for AIME out of nearly 100 taking the AMC10, and likely at least half of those barely qualified. The majority of the 100 kids who took AMC 10 are the types in AoPS/RSM/Curie/Chinese School math classes who despite all of the training fell short. While I'm sure that #13 and on would have enjoyed competing, it's not like Mathcounts is excluding deeply talented kids.

Wondering how you know this, is this still public info, or is it no longer provided by MAA?

I didn't know that Longfellow gives the AMC 10 to kids; I thought they all have to take it somewhere else outside of their school. I wonder how many other middle schools in FCPS do this; probably very few.

I think there are only a few schools that offer the AMC exams, whether they by 8, 10, or 12. I would guess that most of the kids are taking them at private locations. I know that is what we did but we have a 6th grader.

8 kids out of 100 is pretty close to what you would expect statistically, isn’t the AIME qualification just under the top 10% of kids taking the AMC 10? And the test is designed for kids in 10th grade so 8 kids in MS earning their way into the AIME is pretty good. I know that a lot of those kids are ahead in math classes but I don’t think the AMC 10 is written for kids who have completed Geometry at this point. Not to mention, the kids scoring high on the AMC 10 are probably all kids who have been taking math competition classes, to include the 9th and 10th graders, who will have had additional time to prepare. So no, I wouldn’t expect a large number of 8th graders to be taking the AIME.

The people who post on this forum have a warped sense of what kids strong in math look like. DS is planning on taking the AMC 10 next year as a 7th grader, he made the regular honor roll on the AMC8 this year and wants to test himself. We care that he is interested in challenging himself and would be pretty thrilled if he lands close to the AIME cut off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn't Longfellow sent only 2 individuals from Chapter to State this year? I don't think their bench is so deep that we'd have to worry about the 13th.

True. No team in the area has such a deep bench that the #13 kid would have a legitimate shot at making state or nationals. I don't know what the numbers are this year, but last year, Longfellow had 8 kids qualify for AIME out of nearly 100 taking the AMC10, and likely at least half of those barely qualified. The majority of the 100 kids who took AMC 10 are the types in AoPS/RSM/Curie/Chinese School math classes who despite all of the training fell short. While I'm sure that #13 and on would have enjoyed competing, it's not like Mathcounts is excluding deeply talented kids.

Wondering how you know this, is this still public info, or is it no longer provided by MAA?

I didn't know that Longfellow gives the AMC 10 to kids; I thought they all have to take it somewhere else outside of their school. I wonder how many other middle schools in FCPS do this; probably very few.

I think there are only a few schools that offer the AMC exams, whether they by 8, 10, or 12. I would guess that most of the kids are taking them at private locations. I know that is what we did but we have a 6th grader.

8 kids out of 100 is pretty close to what you would expect statistically, isn’t the AIME qualification just under the top 10% of kids taking the AMC 10? And the test is designed for kids in 10th grade so 8 kids in MS earning their way into the AIME is pretty good. I know that a lot of those kids are ahead in math classes but I don’t think the AMC 10 is written for kids who have completed Geometry at this point. Not to mention, the kids scoring high on the AMC 10 are probably all kids who have been taking math competition classes, to include the 9th and 10th graders, who will have had additional time to prepare. So no, I wouldn’t expect a large number of 8th graders to be taking the AIME.

The people who post on this forum have a warped sense of what kids strong in math look like. DS is planning on taking the AMC 10 next year as a 7th grader, he made the regular honor roll on the AMC8 this year and wants to test himself. We care that he is interested in challenging himself and would be pretty thrilled if he lands close to the AIME cut off.

Most of the 5-8% of AMC10 takers who qualify for AIME are 10th graders. The qualifying 6-8th graders is much lower, so 8/100 is a very high percentage. On top of that, AIME is on a different, much higher, level than mathcounts. Having 8 AIME qualifiers means Longfellow probably has many more great mathcounters. Bobby13 might possibly be the best mathcounter in 95% of the middle schools in the US.

There's also a DMV bubble here, in terms of outside enrichment. Most AIME qualifiers are not taking competition classes (except for a mathcounts club at their public school). AoPS only has campuses in 6-8ish metropolitan areas. DMV kids, especially Fairfax county kids, and especially Longfellow kids, are more likely to be in a competition class than most any kid in the country outside of Boston, Seattle, California, and Austin Metro areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn't Longfellow sent only 2 individuals from Chapter to State this year? I don't think their bench is so deep that we'd have to worry about the 13th.

True. No team in the area has such a deep bench that the #13 kid would have a legitimate shot at making state or nationals. I don't know what the numbers are this year, but last year, Longfellow had 8 kids qualify for AIME out of nearly 100 taking the AMC10, and likely at least half of those barely qualified. The majority of the 100 kids who took AMC 10 are the types in AoPS/RSM/Curie/Chinese School math classes who despite all of the training fell short. While I'm sure that #13 and on would have enjoyed competing, it's not like Mathcounts is excluding deeply talented kids.

Wondering how you know this, is this still public info, or is it no longer provided by MAA?

I didn't know that Longfellow gives the AMC 10 to kids; I thought they all have to take it somewhere else outside of their school. I wonder how many other middle schools in FCPS do this; probably very few.

I think there are only a few schools that offer the AMC exams, whether they by 8, 10, or 12. I would guess that most of the kids are taking them at private locations. I know that is what we did but we have a 6th grader.

8 kids out of 100 is pretty close to what you would expect statistically, isn’t the AIME qualification just under the top 10% of kids taking the AMC 10? And the test is designed for kids in 10th grade so 8 kids in MS earning their way into the AIME is pretty good. I know that a lot of those kids are ahead in math classes but I don’t think the AMC 10 is written for kids who have completed Geometry at this point. Not to mention, the kids scoring high on the AMC 10 are probably all kids who have been taking math competition classes, to include the 9th and 10th graders, who will have had additional time to prepare. So no, I wouldn’t expect a large number of 8th graders to be taking the AIME.

The people who post on this forum have a warped sense of what kids strong in math look like. DS is planning on taking the AMC 10 next year as a 7th grader, he made the regular honor roll on the AMC8 this year and wants to test himself. We care that he is interested in challenging himself and would be pretty thrilled if he lands close to the AIME cut off.

Most of the 5-8% of AMC10 takers who qualify for AIME are 10th graders. The qualifying 6-8th graders is much lower, so 8/100 is a very high percentage. On top of that, AIME is on a different, much higher, level than mathcounts. Having 8 AIME qualifiers means Longfellow probably has many more great mathcounters. Bobby13 might possibly be the best mathcounter in 95% of the middle schools in the US.

There's also a DMV bubble here, in terms of outside enrichment. Most AIME qualifiers are not taking competition classes (except for a mathcounts club at their public school). AoPS only has campuses in 6-8ish metropolitan areas. DMV kids, especially Fairfax county kids, and especially Longfellow kids, are more likely to be in a competition class than most any kid in the country outside of Boston, Seattle, California, and Austin Metro areas.

Couple of things: first, of all it's only the top 2.5% of those taking the AMC 10 qualify for AIME (and top 5% of those taking the AMC 12). This, along with the fact that most qualifiers are 9-10th graders, means Longfellow's stats are pretty outstanding. However, The AoPS campuses are just a small sample of all the math contest preparation avenues. A much larger number of kids take AoPS classes via their online text based classes (which are btw cheaper and more flexible, since they are online). Additionally, there are other ways to study for math contests, including just self study with the AoPS books + Alcumus + a wealth of free forum threads on their site. So I would say that almost all AIME qualifiers (especially the ones that qualify via AMC 10) definitely study fairly intensely via some avenue. The AMC 10 is much harder than the AMC 8, and has only increased in difficulty over the last few years. It is no small feat to make it to the AIME without some significant amount of preparation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Longfellow doesn't need a monopoly on having the top 30 mathcounters in the chapter. What if Longfellow has 4 of the top 6, 7 of the top 10, 15 of the top 20, etc... does Bobby13 in Longfellow not get the opportunity to compete because s/he is unluckily in a too-good school?

Bobby13 is actually quite lucky to be in a too-good school. Sure, they didn't make the cut for Mathcounts, but thanks to being at a highly competitive school, they got to do AMC8, AMC10, TJIMO, mathleague, and probably half a dozen other contests. Thanks to the excellent program and coaching at their highly competitive school, they had the tools to do well at these other contests. If you're going to fret about anyone, worry about the top kids in the schools with weak programs, who aren't being given the coaching to succeed and who might not even know about the many other contests out there.

All teams and competitions have to draw a line somewhere. 12 kids per school is the line that the Mathcounts organization thought made the most sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn't Longfellow sent only 2 individuals from Chapter to State this year? I don't think their bench is so deep that we'd have to worry about the 13th.

True. No team in the area has such a deep bench that the #13 kid would have a legitimate shot at making state or nationals. I don't know what the numbers are this year, but last year, Longfellow had 8 kids qualify for AIME out of nearly 100 taking the AMC10, and likely at least half of those barely qualified. The majority of the 100 kids who took AMC 10 are the types in AoPS/RSM/Curie/Chinese School math classes who despite all of the training fell short. While I'm sure that #13 and on would have enjoyed competing, it's not like Mathcounts is excluding deeply talented kids.

Wondering how you know this, is this still public info, or is it no longer provided by MAA?

I didn't know that Longfellow gives the AMC 10 to kids; I thought they all have to take it somewhere else outside of their school. I wonder how many other middle schools in FCPS do this; probably very few.

I think there are only a few schools that offer the AMC exams, whether they by 8, 10, or 12. I would guess that most of the kids are taking them at private locations. I know that is what we did but we have a 6th grader.

8 kids out of 100 is pretty close to what you would expect statistically, isn’t the AIME qualification just under the top 10% of kids taking the AMC 10? And the test is designed for kids in 10th grade so 8 kids in MS earning their way into the AIME is pretty good. I know that a lot of those kids are ahead in math classes but I don’t think the AMC 10 is written for kids who have completed Geometry at this point. Not to mention, the kids scoring high on the AMC 10 are probably all kids who have been taking math competition classes, to include the 9th and 10th graders, who will have had additional time to prepare. So no, I wouldn’t expect a large number of 8th graders to be taking the AIME.

The people who post on this forum have a warped sense of what kids strong in math look like. DS is planning on taking the AMC 10 next year as a 7th grader, he made the regular honor roll on the AMC8 this year and wants to test himself. We care that he is interested in challenging himself and would be pretty thrilled if he lands close to the AIME cut off.

Most of the 5-8% of AMC10 takers who qualify for AIME are 10th graders. The qualifying 6-8th graders is much lower, so 8/100 is a very high percentage. On top of that, AIME is on a different, much higher, level than mathcounts. Having 8 AIME qualifiers means Longfellow probably has many more great mathcounters. Bobby13 might possibly be the best mathcounter in 95% of the middle schools in the US.

There's also a DMV bubble here, in terms of outside enrichment. Most AIME qualifiers are not taking competition classes (except for a mathcounts club at their public school). AoPS only has campuses in 6-8ish metropolitan areas. DMV kids, especially Fairfax county kids, and especially Longfellow kids, are more likely to be in a competition class than most any kid in the country outside of Boston, Seattle, California, and Austin Metro areas.

Couple of things: first, of all it's only the top 2.5% of those taking the AMC 10 qualify for AIME (and top 5% of those taking the AMC 12). This, along with the fact that most qualifiers are 9-10th graders, means Longfellow's stats are pretty outstanding. However, The AoPS campuses are just a small sample of all the math contest preparation avenues. A much larger number of kids take AoPS classes via their online text based classes (which are btw cheaper and more flexible, since they are online). Additionally, there are other ways to study for math contests, including just self study with the AoPS books + Alcumus + a wealth of free forum threads on their site. So I would say that almost all AIME qualifiers (especially the ones that qualify via AMC 10) definitely study fairly intensely via some avenue. The AMC 10 is much harder than the AMC 8, and has only increased in difficulty over the last few years. It is no small feat to make it to the AIME without some significant amount of preparation.

In recent years, AIME is top 7% of AMC10 and top 15% of AMC12.

https://artofproblemsolving.com/wiki/index.php/AMC_historical_results#AMC_10A_2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Sure, they didn't make the cut for Mathcounts, but thanks to being at a highly competitive school, they got to do AMC8, AMC10, TJIMO, mathleague, and probably half a dozen other contests. Thanks to the excellent program and coaching at their highly competitive school, they had the tools to do well at these other contests. If you're going to fret about anyone, worry about the top kids in the schools with weak programs, who aren't being given the coaching to succeed and who might not even know about the many other contests out there.

.

TJIMO takes 7 kids, though the top kids are unlikely to participate.