Can a friend group be toxic for some people but not for others?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My understanding is that Kelly became very depressed after these rumors spread, and especially when she started being excluded or treated coldly/rudely by others in the group. She chose to quit the hobby (which was a big deal -- it's an expensive hobby she'd spent years getting good at, but it's a small community and it's pretty much impossible to do without running into people from this friend group) and she ultimately severed her friendships with everyone in the group. While she didn't tell me this directly, one of the people close to her told me that she was in therapy, on anti-depressants, and experiencing suicidal ideation, which was why she chose to make a clean break. It was also when Covid started, so it was an easy excuse to just cut everyone out.

But the people who participated in the gossip/shunning her view it differently -- they think she was being dramatic, that she expected the group to chase after her and apologize, and they think it's kind of funny no one did. The people who think this have mellowed a bit on it, and aren't as nasty when her name comes up. But it's still an attitude "oh yeah, Kelly was weird, she didn't really fit in with us."

I'm struggling because I see both sides of this.

You’re struggling because you want these people’s approval more than you want to pay the price associated with living your values. It’s unfortunate.

+1. you're "struggling" because deep down you feel some guilt and shame -- both for how kelly was treated and for the cowardice that keeps you around these people.

[Anonymous]

The only dressage lady I've known was a jewel of a person and way above any nonsense like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The only dressage lady I've known was a jewel of a person and way above any nonsense like this.

It really doesn’t matter. Could be any niche interest that people pour a huge amount of time/identity into. See the articles about mean clique writer groups and the conference scene that came out of Bad Art Friend, the articles that came out about the off-road gravel biking scene after that jealous girlfriend murder and the douche player boyfriend, etc.
The hobby doesn’t matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ meant to say "a friend would NOT say something hurtful to you, refuse to apologize once it was clear it hurt you, and then call you a drama llama for being hurt."

oh but we know the drama llamas that ganged up against Kelly were not going to let it go after Kelly apologized. The apology wouldn’t be good enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ meant to say "a friend would NOT say something hurtful to you, refuse to apologize once it was clear it hurt you, and then call you a drama llama for being hurt."

oh but we know the drama llamas that ganged up against Kelly were not going to let it go after Kelly apologized. The apology wouldn’t be good enough.

Yes but according to OP, Kelly was the one who deserved an apology (for the false rumors and getting shunned for what turned out to be no reason) and then was accused of being dramatic when she chose to distance herself instead.

It doesn't sound like Kelly had anything to apologize for, at least not based on OP's description, and I think if Kelly had done something awful to earn her shunning, OP wouldn't be struggling with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ meant to say "a friend would NOT say something hurtful to you, refuse to apologize once it was clear it hurt you, and then call you a drama llama for being hurt."

oh but we know the drama llamas that ganged up against Kelly were not going to let it go after Kelly apologized. The apology wouldn’t be good enough.

+1 The apology would be used against her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My understanding is that Kelly became very depressed after these rumors spread, and especially when she started being excluded or treated coldly/rudely by others in the group. She chose to quit the hobby (which was a big deal -- it's an expensive hobby she'd spent years getting good at, but it's a small community and it's pretty much impossible to do without running into people from this friend group) and she ultimately severed her friendships with everyone in the group. While she didn't tell me this directly, one of the people close to her told me that she was in therapy, on anti-depressants, and experiencing suicidal ideation, which was why she chose to make a clean break. It was also when Covid started, so it was an easy excuse to just cut everyone out.

But the people who participated in the gossip/shunning her view it differently -- they think she was being dramatic, that she expected the group to chase after her and apologize, and they think it's kind of funny no one did. The people who think this have mellowed a bit on it, and aren't as nasty when her name comes up. But it's still an attitude "oh yeah, Kelly was weird, she didn't really fit in with us."

I'm struggling because I see both sides of this.

You’re struggling because you want these people’s approval more than you want to pay the price associated with living your values. It’s unfortunate.

+1. you're "struggling" because deep down you feel some guilt and shame -- both for how kelly was treated and for the cowardice that keeps you around these people.

+2

[Anonymous]

Me personally, I think how the group treated Kelly & the way they went about it was very wrong…..regardless of whether Kelly had any pre-existing mental/emotional issues prior.

Their behavior speaks volumes on the type of people that they are fundamentally as their actions reflect strongly on their character traits.
……………………….
That being said, while they may be kind to you - I personally would always be wondering if I was being gossiped about.
When would it be my turn on the “chopping block??!”

Even though you did not know Kelly too well > the way she was mistreated by this hobby group should be enough to illustrate for you that these are very toxic people.

Hoping this offers clarity + makes sense OP.
Best of luck! 😃

[Anonymous]

There are always two sides to every story but the fact that no one stood up to defend Kelly’s perspective is what upsets me. It’s not an all or nothing - Kelly didnt have to be “right” and you can be “friends” with both, but the idea that the biggest voices controlled the narrative speaks volumes about the personalities of all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’re missing a critical detail. Why was Kelly kicked out? I agree the targets social awkwardness can precipitate this, but so can jealousy. Is Kelly very pretty? Wealthy?

Why would this matter?

+1

PP. I realize now this looks like I’m trying to blame Kelly. I’m not. I’ve been Kelly twice, once in high school and again in graduate school, so it probably reflects my own ruminations about my personal experiences.

In my case, it was long simmering, deep seated jealousy. (It took me years to admit this, because who wants to be the girl who thinks everyone is jealous of her?!) In both cases, I had something another person wanted (supportive parents and then a strong career + high earning spouse), had a minor misunderstanding or disappointment, and got totally iced out of a group. It hurts, very deeply. I spent years wondering what had happened. It took me a long time accept that those people had disliked me for a very long time and when they finally got a chance to push me out, even over something trivial, they seized it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ meant to say "a friend would NOT say something hurtful to you, refuse to apologize once it was clear it hurt you, and then call you a drama llama for being hurt."

oh but we know the drama llamas that ganged up against Kelly were not going to let it go after Kelly apologized. The apology wouldn’t be good enough.

+1 The apology would be used against her.

What is Kelly supposed to have apologized for? Am I missing something? She sounds blameless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Me personally, I think how the group treated Kelly & the way they went about it was very wrong…..regardless of whether Kelly had any pre-existing mental/emotional issues prior.

Their behavior speaks volumes on the type of people that they are fundamentally as their actions reflect strongly on their character traits.
……………………….
That being said, while they may be kind to you - I personally would always be wondering if I was being gossiped about.
When would it be my turn on the “chopping block??!”

Even though you did not know Kelly too well > the way she was mistreated by this hobby group should be enough to illustrate for you that these are very toxic people.

Hoping this offers clarity + makes sense OP.
Best of luck! 😃

I have to agree with all of this.
This group has showed you what kind of people they are.

It is up to you now to believe them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ meant to say "a friend would NOT say something hurtful to you, refuse to apologize once it was clear it hurt you, and then call you a drama llama for being hurt."

oh but we know the drama llamas that ganged up against Kelly were not going to let it go after Kelly apologized. The apology wouldn’t be good enough.

+1 The apology would be used against her.

What is Kelly supposed to have apologized for? Am I missing something? She sounds blameless.

The whole apology scenario was a spin off of the original OP. Nothing to do with Kelly or the lovely group of people OP still hangs with.

[Anonymous]

NP. By their nature, all toxic social groups are supportive of most members. Otherwise, there wouldn't be a group at all. They all work this way, with only certain members selected for punishment and exile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’re missing a critical detail. Why was Kelly kicked out? I agree the targets social awkwardness can precipitate this, but so can jealousy. Is Kelly very pretty? Wealthy?

Why would this matter?

+1

PP. I realize now this looks like I’m trying to blame Kelly. I’m not. I’ve been Kelly twice, once in high school and again in graduate school, so it probably reflects my own ruminations about my personal experiences.

In my case, it was long simmering, deep seated jealousy. (It took me years to admit this, because who wants to be the girl who thinks everyone is jealous of her?!) In both cases, I had something another person wanted (supportive parents and then a strong career + high earning spouse), had a minor misunderstanding or disappointment, and got totally iced out of a group. It hurts, very deeply. I spent years wondering what had happened. It took me a long time accept that those people had disliked me for a very long time and when they finally got a chance to push me out, even over something trivial, they seized it.

This is fairly common. This is why it's dangerous to socialize with people who have a noticeable gap in socioeconomic standing or anything status based. They will never see you as a sympathetic figure if you have more then them in some area. Been there, done that, learned my lesson.