Woman charged with felony for having a stillbirth

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn’t “don’t flush a corpse” common knowledge? I mean it’s not a goldfish it’s a human.

My “common knowledge “ doesn’t cover miscarriages or stillbirths outside of a hospital setting.
Since yours apparently does, please describe, in as detailed a way as you can manage, what exactly “common knowledge “ would have someone do in this situation.

I would probably call 911 and ask for help, and follow their instructions. But I get that after going through something traumatic and being turned away from from the hospital, the poor woman was in shock, and didn’t know what to do.

Really, common sense doesn’t tell you not to add a dead baby to the public water supply? It was apparently large enough that she tried plunging it and it didn’t go down so we’re not talking about just a large glob of cells…

Everyone flushes their miscarriage if it happens at home.

Do you think there is a clear toilet bowl so you can see what came out? You’re talking about a bowl of blood with something under it invisible to the eye.

Why didn’t a doctor extract the non viable fetus to avoid a catastrophic episode in this persons life like a normal stillborn/miscarriage?

Um, a 22-week fetus is a baby. It looks exactly like a baby. I held my 20-week old babies in my arms for an hour while they lived and breathed. You people who think they are a "glob of cells" are complete idiots.

I miscarried a 14 week fetus into a toilet and can tell you that fishing those remnants out of the water to put into a bag and bring to the doctor was about the most traumatizing thing I’ve ever experienced.

Sounds like you experienced your loss in a clean hospital setting where you gave birth in a bed and someone cleaned off your babies before putting them into your arms.

I’m sorry for your loss and experience and I’m sorry for this other woman’s loss and experience.

Please understand that your experience is not universal.

Big big difference between 14 weeks and 22 weeks. Learn biology.

And have you ever passed a 2nd trimester fetus into a toilet, sac and all, and had to reach in to dig it out the bloody remains to put into a container, all by yourself while writhing in pain and bleeding all over the place?

That's not what happened. It was the indifference to the corpse that is the crime: "“The issue isn’t how the child died, when the child died — it’s the fact that the baby was put into a toilet, large enough to clog up a toilet, left in that toilet and she went on [with] her day,” said Warren assistance prosecutor Lewis Guarnieri."

You are a coward to be quoting the prosecutor instead of speaking your own voice. Why the heck should anyone believe anything a prosecutor says - it's their job to prosecute. And the judge is a coward for sending this to a grand jury instead of throwing it out himself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PS, since we are talking weights and sizes:

That infant I know of who delivered at 23 weeks was a pound almost exactly, which is the average size for that gestational age. or the weight of an average papaya. The infant fit well into the palm of my hand.

An average 20 week fetus is about 2/3 of a pound.

That’s for fetus that is viable. Do you know the size of non-viable fetuses? Do you know the difference between a fetus that has no brain and one that does? Do you know the difference of size and weight of a fetus that doesn’t have all its organs?

Power down. I'm not arguing against you.

And yes, I do, because I am a doctor that deals with miscarriages, stillbirths, and fetal defects at many different ages of gestation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That poor woman. She was probably in shock.

So shocked she went on about her day and later tried to plunge the clogged toilet? They told her twice her baby wasn't viable at the hospital.

[Anonymous]

Warren police arrived Sept. 22 at Watts’ Tod Avenue NW home for a death investigation that led to the discovery of Watts’ dead newborn baby.

The child was identified only as Baby Watts on a police report with no gender identification and a date of birth that was listed as the same day of the police investigation of the home.

The report states the child’s corpse showed signs of injury.

Detectives and a Trumbull County coroner’s office investigator were called to collect evidence from the home.

A coroner’s office spokesperson said the investigation into the newborn’s injuries has not yet been completed.

https://www.tribtoday.com/news/local-news/2023/10/elm-road-home-burglarized-video-shows-dog-beating/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn’t “don’t flush a corpse” common knowledge? I mean it’s not a goldfish it’s a human.

My “common knowledge “ doesn’t cover miscarriages or stillbirths outside of a hospital setting.
Since yours apparently does, please describe, in as detailed a way as you can manage, what exactly “common knowledge “ would have someone do in this situation.

I would probably call 911 and ask for help, and follow their instructions. But I get that after going through something traumatic and being turned away from from the hospital, the poor woman was in shock, and didn’t know what to do.

Really, common sense doesn’t tell you not to add a dead baby to the public water supply? It was apparently large enough that she tried plunging it and it didn’t go down so we’re not talking about just a large glob of cells…

Everyone flushes their miscarriage if it happens at home.

Do you think there is a clear toilet bowl so you can see what came out? You’re talking about a bowl of blood with something under it invisible to the eye.

Why didn’t a doctor extract the non viable fetus to avoid a catastrophic episode in this persons life like a normal stillborn/miscarriage?

Are you really arguing that it makes sense to flush a 22 week old fetus down the toilet? C’mon.

This wasn’t a miscarriage. It was a stillbirth.

I agree:
How big is my baby at 22 weeks?
Guess what? Now that you're 22 weeks pregnant, your baby, who’s about the size of a small doll, has finally broken the 1-pound mark.

How heavy is that? Hold a 1-pound bag of sugar in your arms the next time you're in the grocery store — and expect people to ask you why you're grinning from ear to ear.

Is the bag 11 inches long? That's about the length your baby is too!How big is my baby at 22 weeks?
Guess what? Now that you're 22 weeks pregnant, your baby, who’s about the size of a small doll, has finally broken the 1-pound mark.

How heavy is that? Hold a 1-pound bag of sugar in your arms the next time you're in the grocery store — and expect people to ask you why you're grinning from ear to ear.

Is the bag 11 inches long? That's about the length your baby is too!

Source: https://www.whattoexpect.com/pregnancy/week-by-week/week-22.aspx

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is not being charged with having a stillborn. She is being charged for abuse of a corpse for leaving the dead baby in the toilet.

Still stupid. She had a miscarriage. The "baby" was never alive. She was probably not feeling great, confused, panicked, etc. There was likely blood, she didn't know what to do. Hell, maybe it was too slippery to pick up. Maybe she felt faint. Why the hell should someone be subjected to criminal prosecution for this?

Did you even bother to read the story? She went about her day. Then came home to plunged the clogged toilet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is not being charged with having a stillborn. She is being charged for abuse of a corpse for leaving the dead baby in the toilet.

Still stupid. She had a miscarriage. The "baby" was never alive. She was probably not feeling great, confused, panicked, etc. There was likely blood, she didn't know what to do. Hell, maybe it was too slippery to pick up. Maybe she felt faint. Why the hell should someone be subjected to criminal prosecution for this?

How do you know. Were you there?

I know because I’ve seen these situations in my work, they generally follow the same pattern. People do not have normal logical reasoning when they are forced to carry dead babies in their body months and months and months and months and months, and then denied healthcare and forced to deliver in a toilet.

That's total bs.

This did not happen here.

There are too many people jumping in to comment who didn't even bother to read the news story posted or watch the video.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That poor woman. She was probably in shock.

So shocked she went on about her day and later tried to plunge the clogged toilet? They told her twice her baby wasn't viable at the hospital.

Unless they told her something else to do with the body, what else was she supposed to do? Fish it out of the toilet and bury it in her back yard? Call a funeral home? She probably didn’t even know how big it was or want to look.

There’s a reason that women in her position used to be offered therepeutic abortions - to spare them the trauma of having to deal with delivering a stillbirth. But Ohio outlawed this, so this is what happened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a woman who delivered two babies at 20 weeks and I can promise you, that woman did not sit on the toilet and just pop that dead baby out into the toilet and surprisingly hear a splash. Delivering a baby at that term, dead or alive, is every bit as painful as a full-term delivery--I know this, as I have done both, multiple times. You don't just go, oh, I have to pee, and then, hey what was that splash, oh, a baby! Then flush. This wasn't shock. This was foul play. She tried to flush a dead baby down the toilet. And everyone here knows why but won't say. She was very likely covering up a dead baby who had drugs in its system.

AND didn't want to have to pay for cremation or a burial either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn’t “don’t flush a corpse” common knowledge? I mean it’s not a goldfish it’s a human.

My “common knowledge “ doesn’t cover miscarriages or stillbirths outside of a hospital setting.
Since yours apparently does, please describe, in as detailed a way as you can manage, what exactly “common knowledge “ would have someone do in this situation.

I would probably call 911 and ask for help, and follow their instructions. But I get that after going through something traumatic and being turned away from from the hospital, the poor woman was in shock, and didn’t know what to do.

Really, common sense doesn’t tell you not to add a dead baby to the public water supply? It was apparently large enough that she tried plunging it and it didn’t go down so we’re not talking about just a large glob of cells…

Everyone flushes their miscarriage if it happens at home.

Do you think there is a clear toilet bowl so you can see what came out? You’re talking about a bowl of blood with something under it invisible to the eye.

Why didn’t a doctor extract the non viable fetus to avoid a catastrophic episode in this persons life like a normal stillborn/miscarriage?

Um, a 22-week fetus is a baby. It looks exactly like a baby. I held my 20-week old babies in my arms for an hour while they lived and breathed. You people who think they are a "glob of cells" are complete idiots.

I miscarried a 14 week fetus into a toilet and can tell you that fishing those remnants out of the water to put into a bag and bring to the doctor was about the most traumatizing thing I’ve ever experienced.

Sounds like you experienced your loss in a clean hospital setting where you gave birth in a bed and someone cleaned off your babies before putting them into your arms.

I’m sorry for your loss and experience and I’m sorry for this other woman’s loss and experience.

Please understand that your experience is not universal.

Big big difference between 14 weeks and 22 weeks. Learn biology.

And have you ever passed a 2nd trimester fetus into a toilet, sac and all, and had to reach in to dig it out the bloody remains to put into a container, all by yourself while writhing in pain and bleeding all over the place?

That's not what happened. It was the indifference to the corpse that is the crime: "“The issue isn’t how the child died, when the child died — it’s the fact that the baby was put into a toilet, large enough to clog up a toilet, left in that toilet and she went on [with] her day,” said Warren assistance prosecutor Lewis Guarnieri."

jfc. we really ARE at the point of prosecuting women for miscarriages and stillbirths. be careful having your period in Ohio ladies - you could be engaging in a felony by flushing the tampon.

Yes, we are. Thankfully there are people with morals who think flushing a dead baby down a toilet is wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is not being charged with having a stillborn. She is being charged for abuse of a corpse for leaving the dead baby in the toilet.

Still stupid. She had a miscarriage. The "baby" was never alive. She was probably not feeling great, confused, panicked, etc. There was likely blood, she didn't know what to do. Hell, maybe it was too slippery to pick up. Maybe she felt faint. Why the hell should someone be subjected to criminal prosecution for this?

How do you know. Were you there?

I know because I’ve seen these situations in my work, they generally follow the same pattern. People do not have normal logical reasoning when they are forced to carry dead babies in their body months and months and months and months and months, and then denied healthcare and forced to deliver in a toilet.

That's total bs.

This did not happen here.

There are too many people jumping in to comment who didn't even bother to read the news story posted or watch the video.

we read the story. what do you think happened? are you denying that she was told the fetus was non-viable?

[Anonymous]

Don't we all keep a toilet colander and silk lined tiny coffin at hand when doctors refuse us treatment and we're too poor to travel for better health care access? More than one woman had a similar experience in this thread, how many countless white women will have this experience and be treated with compassion versus this poor woman becoming a prosecution scape goat?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn’t “don’t flush a corpse” common knowledge? I mean it’s not a goldfish it’s a human.

My “common knowledge “ doesn’t cover miscarriages or stillbirths outside of a hospital setting.
Since yours apparently does, please describe, in as detailed a way as you can manage, what exactly “common knowledge “ would have someone do in this situation.

I would probably call 911 and ask for help, and follow their instructions. But I get that after going through something traumatic and being turned away from from the hospital, the poor woman was in shock, and didn’t know what to do.

Really, common sense doesn’t tell you not to add a dead baby to the public water supply? It was apparently large enough that she tried plunging it and it didn’t go down so we’re not talking about just a large glob of cells…

Everyone flushes their miscarriage if it happens at home.

Do you think there is a clear toilet bowl so you can see what came out? You’re talking about a bowl of blood with something under it invisible to the eye.

Why didn’t a doctor extract the non viable fetus to avoid a catastrophic episode in this persons life like a normal stillborn/miscarriage?

Um, a 22-week fetus is a baby. It looks exactly like a baby. I held my 20-week old babies in my arms for an hour while they lived and breathed. You people who think they are a "glob of cells" are complete idiots.

I miscarried a 14 week fetus into a toilet and can tell you that fishing those remnants out of the water to put into a bag and bring to the doctor was about the most traumatizing thing I’ve ever experienced.

Sounds like you experienced your loss in a clean hospital setting where you gave birth in a bed and someone cleaned off your babies before putting them into your arms.

I’m sorry for your loss and experience and I’m sorry for this other woman’s loss and experience.

Please understand that your experience is not universal.

Big big difference between 14 weeks and 22 weeks. Learn biology.

And have you ever passed a 2nd trimester fetus into a toilet, sac and all, and had to reach in to dig it out the bloody remains to put into a container, all by yourself while writhing in pain and bleeding all over the place?

That's not what happened. It was the indifference to the corpse that is the crime: "“The issue isn’t how the child died, when the child died — it’s the fact that the baby was put into a toilet, large enough to clog up a toilet, left in that toilet and she went on [with] her day,” said Warren assistance prosecutor Lewis Guarnieri."

jfc. we really ARE at the point of prosecuting women for miscarriages and stillbirths. be careful having your period in Ohio ladies - you could be engaging in a felony by flushing the tampon.

Yes, we are. Thankfully there are people with morals who think flushing a dead baby down a toilet is wrong.

honestly stFu. she should have been admitted to the hospital and given a D&C but that is now illegal in Ohio.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn’t “don’t flush a corpse” common knowledge? I mean it’s not a goldfish it’s a human.

My “common knowledge “ doesn’t cover miscarriages or stillbirths outside of a hospital setting.
Since yours apparently does, please describe, in as detailed a way as you can manage, what exactly “common knowledge “ would have someone do in this situation.

I would probably call 911 and ask for help, and follow their instructions. But I get that after going through something traumatic and being turned away from from the hospital, the poor woman was in shock, and didn’t know what to do.

Really, common sense doesn’t tell you not to add a dead baby to the public water supply? It was apparently large enough that she tried plunging it and it didn’t go down so we’re not talking about just a large glob of cells…

Everyone flushes their miscarriage if it happens at home.

Do you think there is a clear toilet bowl so you can see what came out? You’re talking about a bowl of blood with something under it invisible to the eye.

Why didn’t a doctor extract the non viable fetus to avoid a catastrophic episode in this persons life like a normal stillborn/miscarriage?

Are you really arguing that it makes sense to flush a 22 week old fetus down the toilet? C’mon.

This wasn’t a miscarriage. It was a stillbirth.

How big do you think a 22 week fetus is?

NOT PP but sizable:

How big is my baby at 22 weeks?
Guess what? Now that you're 22 weeks pregnant, your baby, who’s about the size of a small doll, has finally broken the 1-pound mark.

How heavy is that? Hold a 1-pound bag of sugar in your arms the next time you're in the grocery store — and expect people to ask you why you're grinning from ear to ear.

Is the bag 11 inches long? That's about the length your baby is too!

https://www.whattoexpect.com/pregnancy/week-by-week/week-22.aspx

[Anonymous]

Full stop, there is no crime here. No one is arguing that she caused the miscarriage intentionally. Most women miscarry into the toilet, this is just a fact. I've also never met a woman that miscarried a half term baby and wasn't completely distraught. I don't know what the state of Ohio is smoking but clearly no one involved in the process has miscarried a baby that late.