America's poor math skills raise alarms over global competitiveness

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there are at least two different problems:

1) not enough people going into stem fields. There are at least three reasons for this: a) poor curricula in the k-12 grades makes kids not interested in these fields because they don’t see real world interesting use. Here in America kids have more choice in what they study than in many countries. B) insufficient capacity at higher education. They just don’t have the professors to increase capacity. C) relative compensation. These fields are really hard and the comp is okay but not great. You can make more money more easily in non-tech fields. See, eg, all the engineers that go back for a jD to do patent law. This relative wage disparity is not present in most countries.

2) Americans not in stem fields have poor math skills. I’m a lawyer and it’s shocking how often I have to explain simple algebra to other lawyers. People outside of math fields have little intuitive sense for numbers/math. I think common core is supposed to help with that by requiring kids to think about math in different ways instead of just focusing on the old solve this equation worksheets. I also think it’s a problem that most Americans take no math after 12th grade. It’s like a language or like a physical skill — if you don’t use it, you lose it. I don’t know a solution for that.

Funny...I remember working on a corporate transaction and in order to update the document the associate had to replace two, two digit numbers added together with a new set of numbers (think...previous was 57 +27, and now it is 59+28). The lawyer asked that I update the numbers because he didn't want to "screw it up".

I work in stem with PhDs (life sciences) and its amazing how many people are bad at basic math. I'm always needing to calculate drug concentrations for other people.

My DC is a math whiz.. like DC can finish a DiffEq math test in 15min that most students take an hour for and get a 100. But, DC is bad at basic calculation. I think Dc's brain is just beyond basic math. LOL. I'm great at basic math, but not great at really advanced math. I got lost after Calc 2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The nation needs people who are good at math, employers say, in the same way motion picture mortals need superheroes. They say America’s poor math performance isn’t funny. It’s a threat to the nation’s global economic competitiveness and national security.

“The advances in technology that are going to drive where the world goes in the next 50 years are going to come from other countries, because they have the intellectual capital and we don’t,” said Jim Stigler, a psychology professor at the University of California, Los Angeles, who studies the process of teaching and learning subjects including math.

The Defense Department has called for a major initiative to support education in science, technology, education and math, or STEM. It says there are eight times as many college graduates in these disciplines in China and four times as many engineers in Russia as in the United States.

“This is not an educational question alone,” said Josh Wyner, vice president of The Aspen Institute think tank. In July, the think tank warned that other nations, particularly China, are challenging America’s technological dominance. “Resolving the fundamental challenges facing our time requires math."

Meanwhile, the number of jobs in math occupations — positions that “use arithmetic and apply advanced techniques to make calculations, analyze data and solve problems” — will increase by more than 30,000 per year through the end of this decade, Bureau of Labor Statistics figures show. That’s much faster than most other kinds of jobs.

“Mathematics is becoming more and more a part of almost every career,” said Michael Allen, who chairs the math department at Tennessee Technological University.

But most American students aren't prepared for those jobs. In the most recent Program for International Student Assessment tests in math, or PISA, U.S. students scored lower than their counterparts in 36 other education systems worldwide. Students in China scored the highest. Only one in five college-bound American high school students is prepared for college-level courses in STEM, according to the National Science and Technology Council.

One result: Students from other countries are preparing to lead these fields. Only one in five graduate students in math-intensive subjects including computer science and electrical engineering at U.S. universities are American, the National Foundation for American Policy reports. The rest come from abroad. Most will leave the U.S. when they finish their programs.

In the U.S., poor math skills could mean lower salaries for today's kids. A Stanford economist has estimated that, if U.S. pandemic math declines are not reversed, students now in kindergarten through grade 12 will earn from 2% to 9% less over their careers, depending on what state they live in, than their predecessors educated just before the start of the pandemic.

But it also means the country's productivity and competitiveness could slide.

“Math just underpins everything,” said Megan Schrauben, executive director of the Michigan Department of Labor and Economic Opportunity’s MiSTEM initiative, which tries to get more students into STEM. “It’s extremely important for the future prosperity of our students and communities, but also our entire state.”

In Massachusetts, employers are anticipating a shortage over the next five years of 11,000 workers in the life sciences alone.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/americas-poor-math-skills-raise-041135854.html

Then create more seats at the college level. There are very qualified students applying to engineering and CS programs who can't get in.

That is not true for college overall...there are plenty of schools that accept 90%+ of their students that offer engineering and CS. You are referencing only the selective schools.

I have read articles in the past about how in China and India...like 80%+ of their engineering and STEM graduates essentially graduated from the equivalent of Devry. These countries have hundreds of colleges that give kids the degree, but it is literally worthless.

There must be a typo in the article. It references that jobs requiring stronger Math will increase by 30,000 per year...in an economy that generates millions of jobs per year, that is next to nothing which seems off to me.

I think their post is mostly scare tactic nonsense. Every year the AMC and AIME tests keep getting harder and harder because the top kids are doing better. The US is always among the top countries in the math olympiad these days.

These bulk statistics being used to raise alarms include outsided numbers of recent immigrants who often aren't fluent in English and this has an impact on overall averages. This is to be expected and not indicative of a crisis.

Did youlook at the members on the US teams? Almost all of them are Asian students.

OK...but they are still Americans are they not (I actually don't know if they need to be US citizens or not)?

True. They are still Americans but their knowledge and skills are not being gained from the schools. Their parents are teaching them and they also are going to tutors in US and abroad (online). No one is following US curricullum. Also, the private schools are worse than public schools so Asian-Americans (despite high median income) do not send their kids there. They go through public schools to get a better understanding of networking and opportunities but get educated at home.

Also, lack of women in STEM is an American phenomenon. Asian girls are in STEM fields in high numbers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there are at least two different problems:

1) not enough people going into stem fields. There are at least three reasons for this: a) poor curricula in the k-12 grades makes kids not interested in these fields because they don’t see real world interesting use. Here in America kids have more choice in what they study than in many countries. B) insufficient capacity at higher education. They just don’t have the professors to increase capacity. C) relative compensation. These fields are really hard and the comp is okay but not great. You can make more money more easily in non-tech fields. See, eg, all the engineers that go back for a jD to do patent law. This relative wage disparity is not present in most countries.

2) Americans not in stem fields have poor math skills. I’m a lawyer and it’s shocking how often I have to explain simple algebra to other lawyers. People outside of math fields have little intuitive sense for numbers/math. I think common core is supposed to help with that by requiring kids to think about math in different ways instead of just focusing on the old solve this equation worksheets. I also think it’s a problem that most Americans take no math after 12th grade. It’s like a language or like a physical skill — if you don’t use it, you lose it. I don’t know a solution for that.

Funny...I remember working on a corporate transaction and in order to update the document the associate had to replace two, two digit numbers added together with a new set of numbers (think...previous was 57 +27, and now it is 59+28). The lawyer asked that I update the numbers because he didn't want to "screw it up".

I work in stem with PhDs (life sciences) and its amazing how many people are bad at basic math. I'm always needing to calculate drug concentrations for other people.

My DC is a math whiz.. like DC can finish a DiffEq math test in 15min that most students take an hour for and get a 100. But, DC is bad at basic calculation. I think Dc's brain is just beyond basic math. LOL. I'm great at basic math, but not great at really advanced math. I got lost after Calc 2.

I have a DC like that--and it was apparent from the beginning. As a preschooler he couldn't count accurately but he intuitively grasped the concept of negative numbers and could work out problems with them. It just continued on that way throughout school. Eventually a math major, but if he doesn't have a calculator, he makes a ton of mistakes in calculation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This same article has been written in one form or another for the last 40 years.

First it was Japan that was going to eat our lunch...until Japan imploded.

Then China was going to eat our lunch...and now China is imploding (at least economically).

Russia was/is always a threat, but folks forget the vast majority of Russia is poor and the country is killing itself.

I guess now it is India's time.

India has been in a state of implosion and chaos for centuries now, but still somehow things are still progressing. I'd be worried.

Indians like some type of chaos. It is our natural state of being and it is comforting to us, because opportunities come from chaos and order leads to decay and stagnation. Western model of order does not apply to us anymore. This is the new India. And we are very cognizant that this is going to be our century.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fake GPAs, grade inflation.

Not teaching a strong foundation in math basics and pushing acceleration w/out mastery.

We pulled my kids off the crazy acceleration path in middle school. They had As but it was clear the algebra in middle school was inadequate.

Now kids don’t even have to show math proficiency on the SATs to get into college. Test optional.

Nowhere else in the world can you get into university without exams.

They now want to remove AP exam results, results from ACT/SATs and things like SOLs as a criteria for ranking US high schools.

This country is absolutely ridiculous. In the name of equity and holistics we are removing every legitimate standard. How exactly are we screening math skills? Of course it’s getting worse while we falsely declare kids math accelerated and proficient and slap a pass or an A on their report card.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The nation needs people who are good at math, employers say, in the same way motion picture mortals need superheroes. They say America’s poor math performance isn’t funny. It’s a threat to the nation’s global economic competitiveness and national security.

“The advances in technology that are going to drive where the world goes in the next 50 years are going to come from other countries, because they have the intellectual capital and we don’t,” said Jim Stigler, a psychology professor at the University of California, Los Angeles, who studies the process of teaching and learning subjects including math.

The Defense Department has called for a major initiative to support education in science, technology, education and math, or STEM. It says there are eight times as many college graduates in these disciplines in China and four times as many engineers in Russia as in the United States.

“This is not an educational question alone,” said Josh Wyner, vice president of The Aspen Institute think tank. In July, the think tank warned that other nations, particularly China, are challenging America’s technological dominance. “Resolving the fundamental challenges facing our time requires math."

Meanwhile, the number of jobs in math occupations — positions that “use arithmetic and apply advanced techniques to make calculations, analyze data and solve problems” — will increase by more than 30,000 per year through the end of this decade, Bureau of Labor Statistics figures show. That’s much faster than most other kinds of jobs.

“Mathematics is becoming more and more a part of almost every career,” said Michael Allen, who chairs the math department at Tennessee Technological University.

But most American students aren't prepared for those jobs. In the most recent Program for International Student Assessment tests in math, or PISA, U.S. students scored lower than their counterparts in 36 other education systems worldwide. Students in China scored the highest. Only one in five college-bound American high school students is prepared for college-level courses in STEM, according to the National Science and Technology Council.

One result: Students from other countries are preparing to lead these fields. Only one in five graduate students in math-intensive subjects including computer science and electrical engineering at U.S. universities are American, the National Foundation for American Policy reports. The rest come from abroad. Most will leave the U.S. when they finish their programs.

In the U.S., poor math skills could mean lower salaries for today's kids. A Stanford economist has estimated that, if U.S. pandemic math declines are not reversed, students now in kindergarten through grade 12 will earn from 2% to 9% less over their careers, depending on what state they live in, than their predecessors educated just before the start of the pandemic.

But it also means the country's productivity and competitiveness could slide.

“Math just underpins everything,” said Megan Schrauben, executive director of the Michigan Department of Labor and Economic Opportunity’s MiSTEM initiative, which tries to get more students into STEM. “It’s extremely important for the future prosperity of our students and communities, but also our entire state.”

In Massachusetts, employers are anticipating a shortage over the next five years of 11,000 workers in the life sciences alone.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/americas-poor-math-skills-raise-041135854.html

Then create more seats at the college level. There are very qualified students applying to engineering and CS programs who can't get in.

That is not true for college overall...there are plenty of schools that accept 90%+ of their students that offer engineering and CS. You are referencing only the selective schools.

I have read articles in the past about how in China and India...like 80%+ of their engineering and STEM graduates essentially graduated from the equivalent of Devry. These countries have hundreds of colleges that give kids the degree, but it is literally worthless.

There must be a typo in the article. It references that jobs requiring stronger Math will increase by 30,000 per year...in an economy that generates millions of jobs per year, that is next to nothing which seems off to me.

I think their post is mostly scare tactic nonsense. Every year the AMC and AIME tests keep getting harder and harder because the top kids are doing better. The US is always among the top countries in the math olympiad these days.

These bulk statistics being used to raise alarms include outsided numbers of recent immigrants who often aren't fluent in English and this has an impact on overall averages. This is to be expected and not indicative of a crisis.

Did you look at the members on the US teams? Almost all of them are Asian students.

OK...but they are still Americans are they not (I actually don't know if they need to be US citizens or not)?

I think some of the USA team members attend top privates as international students and almost all of them are Asians as well.

You have to be a citizen or long-term resident of the country. But the point is that these are still (all USA(J)MO qualifiers) only 500. Add in a couple of thousand more AIME qualifiers and still it is a small pool and focusing on these is irrelevant. However the larger point of less-than-rigorous math education is probably correct. In DC, the number of 5s in various math PARCCs even in Upper NW schools is lower than what would be expected, given the demographics. This is also reflected in the vanishingly low numbers of AIME/JMO/AMO qualifiers from DCPS or Charter schools in the last 5-10 years.

In fairness, my DCPS kid scored a 5 on the AP BC calc exam and had an 800 in the math on the SAT...but did not sit for any AIME/JMO/AMO qualifiers, nor do I think my kid even knew how to do so. Did take the Canada Euclid test (same?) because was interested in Toronto and scored very high.

DCPS does offer them (I know JR does and so does Walls). Don't know about Banneker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fake GPAs, grade inflation.

Not teaching a strong foundation in math basics and pushing acceleration w/out mastery.

We pulled my kids off the crazy acceleration path in middle school. They had As but it was clear the algebra in middle school was inadequate.

Now kids don’t even have to show math proficiency on the SATs to get into college. Test optional.

Nowhere else in the world can you get into university without exams.

They now want to remove AP exam results, results from ACT/SATs and things like SOLs as a criteria for ranking US high schools.

This country is absolutely ridiculous. In the name of equity and holistics we are removing every legitimate standard. How exactly are we screening math skills? Of course it’s getting worse while we falsely declare kids math accelerated and proficient and slap a pass or an A on their report card.

+1

agree. Every country except the US uses some form of nationalized standards tests for college admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This same article has been written in one form or another for the last 40 years.

First it was Japan that was going to eat our lunch...until Japan imploded.

Then China was going to eat our lunch...and now China is imploding (at least economically).

Russia was/is always a threat, but folks forget the vast majority of Russia is poor and the country is killing itself.

I guess now it is India's time.

India has been in a state of implosion and chaos for centuries now, but still somehow things are still progressing. I'd be worried.

Indians like some type of chaos. It is our natural state of being and it is comforting to us, because opportunities come from chaos and order leads to decay and stagnation. Western model of order does not apply to us anymore. This is the new India. And we are very cognizant that this is going to be our century.

I'm 60 and I'm laughing about all the times I've heard the "new India." Maybe one time it will be true. (I'm Indian).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fake GPAs, grade inflation.

Not teaching a strong foundation in math basics and pushing acceleration w/out mastery.

We pulled my kids off the crazy acceleration path in middle school. They had As but it was clear the algebra in middle school was inadequate.

Now kids don’t even have to show math proficiency on the SATs to get into college. Test optional.

Nowhere else in the world can you get into university without exams.

They now want to remove AP exam results, results from ACT/SATs and things like SOLs as a criteria for ranking US high schools.

This country is absolutely ridiculous. In the name of equity and holistics we are removing every legitimate standard. How exactly are we screening math skills? Of course it’s getting worse while we falsely declare kids math accelerated and proficient and slap a pass or an A on their report card.

+1

Who's the they? USNWR? Nobody associated with the school system cares about ranking high schools. Individual colleges decide how they will admit students. I guarantee you they still have ways of assessing students' skills/knowledge--they just want flexibility. At most good schools the majority of students are still submitting SAT scores, AP/IB exam scores and all selective schools rank the rigor of high school courses (and compare students' GPAs to each other within high school to account for grade inflation).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The nation needs people who are good at math, employers say, in the same way motion picture mortals need superheroes. They say America’s poor math performance isn’t funny. It’s a threat to the nation’s global economic competitiveness and national security.

“The advances in technology that are going to drive where the world goes in the next 50 years are going to come from other countries, because they have the intellectual capital and we don’t,” said Jim Stigler, a psychology professor at the University of California, Los Angeles, who studies the process of teaching and learning subjects including math.

The Defense Department has called for a major initiative to support education in science, technology, education and math, or STEM. It says there are eight times as many college graduates in these disciplines in China and four times as many engineers in Russia as in the United States.

“This is not an educational question alone,” said Josh Wyner, vice president of The Aspen Institute think tank. In July, the think tank warned that other nations, particularly China, are challenging America’s technological dominance. “Resolving the fundamental challenges facing our time requires math."

Meanwhile, the number of jobs in math occupations — positions that “use arithmetic and apply advanced techniques to make calculations, analyze data and solve problems” — will increase by more than 30,000 per year through the end of this decade, Bureau of Labor Statistics figures show. That’s much faster than most other kinds of jobs.

“Mathematics is becoming more and more a part of almost every career,” said Michael Allen, who chairs the math department at Tennessee Technological University.

But most American students aren't prepared for those jobs. In the most recent Program for International Student Assessment tests in math, or PISA, U.S. students scored lower than their counterparts in 36 other education systems worldwide. Students in China scored the highest. Only one in five college-bound American high school students is prepared for college-level courses in STEM, according to the National Science and Technology Council.

One result: Students from other countries are preparing to lead these fields. Only one in five graduate students in math-intensive subjects including computer science and electrical engineering at U.S. universities are American, the National Foundation for American Policy reports. The rest come from abroad. Most will leave the U.S. when they finish their programs.

In the U.S., poor math skills could mean lower salaries for today's kids. A Stanford economist has estimated that, if U.S. pandemic math declines are not reversed, students now in kindergarten through grade 12 will earn from 2% to 9% less over their careers, depending on what state they live in, than their predecessors educated just before the start of the pandemic.

But it also means the country's productivity and competitiveness could slide.

“Math just underpins everything,” said Megan Schrauben, executive director of the Michigan Department of Labor and Economic Opportunity’s MiSTEM initiative, which tries to get more students into STEM. “It’s extremely important for the future prosperity of our students and communities, but also our entire state.”

In Massachusetts, employers are anticipating a shortage over the next five years of 11,000 workers in the life sciences alone.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/americas-poor-math-skills-raise-041135854.html

Then create more seats at the college level. There are very qualified students applying to engineering and CS programs who can't get in.

That is not true for college overall...there are plenty of schools that accept 90%+ of their students that offer engineering and CS. You are referencing only the selective schools.

I have read articles in the past about how in China and India...like 80%+ of their engineering and STEM graduates essentially graduated from the equivalent of Devry. These countries have hundreds of colleges that give kids the degree, but it is literally worthless.

There must be a typo in the article. It references that jobs requiring stronger Math will increase by 30,000 per year...in an economy that generates millions of jobs per year, that is next to nothing which seems off to me.

I think their post is mostly scare tactic nonsense. Every year the AMC and AIME tests keep getting harder and harder because the top kids are doing better. The US is always among the top countries in the math olympiad these days.

These bulk statistics being used to raise alarms include outsided numbers of recent immigrants who often aren't fluent in English and this has an impact on overall averages. This is to be expected and not indicative of a crisis.

Did you look at the members on the US teams? Almost all of them are Asian students.

OK...but they are still Americans are they not (I actually don't know if they need to be US citizens or not)?

I think some of the USA team members attend top privates as international students and almost all of them are Asians as well.

You have to be a citizen or long-term resident of the country. But the point is that these are still (all USA(J)MO qualifiers) only 500. Add in a couple of thousand more AIME qualifiers and still it is a small pool and focusing on these is irrelevant. However the larger point of less-than-rigorous math education is probably correct. In DC, the number of 5s in various math PARCCs even in Upper NW schools is lower than what would be expected, given the demographics. This is also reflected in the vanishingly low numbers of AIME/JMO/AMO qualifiers from DCPS or Charter schools in the last 5-10 years.

In fairness, my DCPS kid scored a 5 on the AP BC calc exam and had an 800 in the math on the SAT...but did not sit for any AIME/JMO/AMO qualifiers, nor do I think my kid even knew how to do so. Did take the Canada Euclid test (same?) because was interested in Toronto and scored very high.

DCPS does offer them (I know JR does and so does Walls). Don't know about Banneker.

They probably do offer them...but they do not really advertise them. My kid was into the engineering/CS clubs (robotics, Hackathon, etc.), not the Math Club. Maybe those kids sat for the tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The nation needs people who are good at math, employers say, in the same way motion picture mortals need superheroes. They say America’s poor math performance isn’t funny. It’s a threat to the nation’s global economic competitiveness and national security.

“The advances in technology that are going to drive where the world goes in the next 50 years are going to come from other countries, because they have the intellectual capital and we don’t,” said Jim Stigler, a psychology professor at the University of California, Los Angeles, who studies the process of teaching and learning subjects including math.

The Defense Department has called for a major initiative to support education in science, technology, education and math, or STEM. It says there are eight times as many college graduates in these disciplines in China and four times as many engineers in Russia as in the United States.

“This is not an educational question alone,” said Josh Wyner, vice president of The Aspen Institute think tank. In July, the think tank warned that other nations, particularly China, are challenging America’s technological dominance. “Resolving the fundamental challenges facing our time requires math."

Meanwhile, the number of jobs in math occupations — positions that “use arithmetic and apply advanced techniques to make calculations, analyze data and solve problems” — will increase by more than 30,000 per year through the end of this decade, Bureau of Labor Statistics figures show. That’s much faster than most other kinds of jobs.

“Mathematics is becoming more and more a part of almost every career,” said Michael Allen, who chairs the math department at Tennessee Technological University.

But most American students aren't prepared for those jobs. In the most recent Program for International Student Assessment tests in math, or PISA, U.S. students scored lower than their counterparts in 36 other education systems worldwide. Students in China scored the highest. Only one in five college-bound American high school students is prepared for college-level courses in STEM, according to the National Science and Technology Council.

One result: Students from other countries are preparing to lead these fields. Only one in five graduate students in math-intensive subjects including computer science and electrical engineering at U.S. universities are American, the National Foundation for American Policy reports. The rest come from abroad. Most will leave the U.S. when they finish their programs.

In the U.S., poor math skills could mean lower salaries for today's kids. A Stanford economist has estimated that, if U.S. pandemic math declines are not reversed, students now in kindergarten through grade 12 will earn from 2% to 9% less over their careers, depending on what state they live in, than their predecessors educated just before the start of the pandemic.

But it also means the country's productivity and competitiveness could slide.

“Math just underpins everything,” said Megan Schrauben, executive director of the Michigan Department of Labor and Economic Opportunity’s MiSTEM initiative, which tries to get more students into STEM. “It’s extremely important for the future prosperity of our students and communities, but also our entire state.”

In Massachusetts, employers are anticipating a shortage over the next five years of 11,000 workers in the life sciences alone.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/americas-poor-math-skills-raise-041135854.html

Then create more seats at the college level. There are very qualified students applying to engineering and CS programs who can't get in.

That is not true for college overall...there are plenty of schools that accept 90%+ of their students that offer engineering and CS. You are referencing only the selective schools.

I have read articles in the past about how in China and India...like 80%+ of their engineering and STEM graduates essentially graduated from the equivalent of Devry. These countries have hundreds of colleges that give kids the degree, but it is literally worthless.

There must be a typo in the article. It references that jobs requiring stronger Math will increase by 30,000 per year...in an economy that generates millions of jobs per year, that is next to nothing which seems off to me.

I think their post is mostly scare tactic nonsense. Every year the AMC and AIME tests keep getting harder and harder because the top kids are doing better. The US is always among the top countries in the math olympiad these days.

These bulk statistics being used to raise alarms include outsided numbers of recent immigrants who often aren't fluent in English and this has an impact on overall averages. This is to be expected and not indicative of a crisis.

Did youlook at the members on the US teams? Almost all of them are Asian students.

OK...but they are still Americans are they not (I actually don't know if they need to be US citizens or not)?

True. They are still Americans but their knowledge and skills are not being gained from the schools. Their parents are teaching them and they also are going to tutors in US and abroad (online). No one is following US curricullum. Also, the private schools are worse than public schools so Asian-Americans (despite high median income) do not send their kids there. They go through public schools to get a better understanding of networking and opportunities but get educated at home.

Also, lack of women in STEM is an American phenomenon. Asian girls are in STEM fields in high numbers.

Sadly, many parents have to teach math and writing to their kids or hire tutors. Schools are useless for academics at this point especially middle and high schools. Many 6th graders cannot read = they read at 1st grade level. It is not just math but also reading and writing.

[Anonymous]

Forget math careers, acceleration, or specialized STEM work. Majority of public school students can’t even meet grade level math proficiency. Avg proficiency of math in US is terrible: only 12% of 12th graders are proficient and 25% of 8th graders.

I don’t blame the schools though. It is the fault of kids and parents. The material IS being taught. The UMC are learning it. It’s the MC and below that aren’t. In these schools, the parents (and often the kids too) just don’t care and value school. They don’t pay attention in class, they come late, they don’t come at all, they don’t turn in work, they don’t even do they work given in class, parents don’t answer phone calls or emails, lots of behavior problems, parents don’t follow up on homework and what is happening at school.

In other countries, the middle class and below parents still emphasize the importance of academics from an early age. It is THE most important thing. It just isn’t so in the US.

[Anonymous]

Yeah the US utter failure in this area is why the US ia such a laggar in science and technology innovation.

Think about it.. what software and technology do we use that was invented in the US? It's all coming from China and India!

For example, iPhone, Google, Microsoft, Facebook, the internet.... oh wait.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah the US utter failure in this area is why the US ia such a laggar in science and technology innovation.

Think about it.. what software and technology do we use that was invented in the US? It's all coming from China and India!

For example, iPhone, Google, Microsoft, Facebook, the internet.... oh wait.

This has been the subject of tons of articles since the 1980s as well. All these Asian countries where kids score high on these international tests, yet the countries themselves are not conducive to innovation and the population is miserable. China is primarily only an innovator because the government has effectively "banned" western companies, so domestic players have no foreign competition. I would say Tik Tok however is definitely an example of a true worldwide Chinese company.

Of course, now China's economy is stagnating and youth unemployment is horrible (25%+). It is so bad they won't even publish it anymore.

Korea and Japan have abysmal birth rates. Professionals in Japan move to Australia to work as a waiter and double their salaries. Korea is a depressing place where everyone sends their kids to 8 hours of school and then another 8 hours of cram school. Very few start-ups because Hyundai, LG, etc....these conglomerates dominate the economy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This same article has been written in one form or another for the last 40 years.

First it was Japan that was going to eat our lunch...until Japan imploded.

Then China was going to eat our lunch...and now China is imploding (at least economically).

Russia was/is always a threat, but folks forget the vast majority of Russia is poor and the country is killing itself.

I guess now it is India's time.

India has been in a state of implosion and chaos for centuries now, but still somehow things are still progressing. I'd be worried.

Indians like some type of chaos. It is our natural state of being and it is comforting to us, because opportunities come from chaos and order leads to decay and stagnation. Western model of order does not apply to us anymore. This is the new India. And we are very cognizant that this is going to be our century.

I'm 60 and I'm laughing about all the times I've heard the "new India." Maybe one time it will be true. (I'm Indian).

You are 60. You were raised in an India of despair and hopelessness. At your life stage, you are incapable of going back to India and assimilating. The new generation in India is hopeful, more affluent and 1/4 of the world population. 65% of India is below 35. They know education is key to success. Unlike USA, where skin color is the way to success. Big difference.