America's poor math skills raise alarms over global competitiveness

[Anonymous]

Hard to get kids excited about math majors when they get dumbed down math for 13 years and are blocked from AAP. Kids excited about math were long ago bored to tears.

[Anonymous]

This same article has been written in one form or another for the last 40 years.

First it was Japan that was going to eat our lunch...until Japan imploded.

Then China was going to eat our lunch...and now China is imploding (at least economically).

Russia was/is always a threat, but folks forget the vast majority of Russia is poor and the country is killing itself.

I guess now it is India's time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Stop using calculators in K-12 and before college.

Use textbooks to teach the subject, have a text book at home and one in classroom, have online lessons so that parents can watch it and reteach at home. American parents are so bad in Math that they cannot tutor their kids in Math.

Teach multiplication tables from 0 - 15 in grade 2. Rote learning has its place.

Teach STEM in the language that students know - English, Spanish etc. You are making immigrant kids from poorly educated and illiterate families dumb in Math because you are focussed on them learning the English language first.

I don't really think this is an issue for math. My kid's math instruction was in Spanish starting in second grade when he knew zero Spanish, and it was one of his easier classes. By high school, he was completely bilingual and still good at math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of kids may be bad at math, but we do not have a dearth of CS majors. And you have to pass those math classes as part of your CS major.

China and Russia have 3x and 1.5x respectively the population as the US, so of course they will be graduating more students in STEM. Russia's economy is also crap, so even if they are graduating a lot of STEM majors, it sure isn't helping their country.

Russia's population is approximately 144M which is less than half of US population (340M) and yet they produce many many more engineers.

Good for them and the great products those engineers are producing. If there is one thing I look for when making a purchasing decision, it's the Made in Russia stamp of quality

Xax!

[Anonymous]

AI will make math irrelevant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Americans have an unwarranted math phobia. Everyone thinks it is hard when in reality students all over the world learn higher level math at a much earlier age because they teach it in an integrated manner rather than topic based (Algebra, Geometry, Trigonometry, Calculus).

Fortunately, the push to lower math education for the sake of equity has fallen off or America would really be in trouble.

Wake up America before it is too late.

we've always taught math that way (I'm in my 50s), but numeracy and math abilities are getting worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AI will make math irrelevant.

The people developing the AI tend to be math/computer science majors.

That said, I am so glad my son majored in data science and applied math. He has some serious job security.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AI will make math irrelevant.

The people developing the AI tend to be math/computer science majors.

That said, I am so glad my son majored in data science and applied math. He has some serious job security.

Curious why you think that? AI is excellent at brute force solving complex math problems and for data science.

Is applied math somehow different?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This same article has been written in one form or another for the last 40 years.

First it was Japan that was going to eat our lunch...until Japan imploded.

Then China was going to eat our lunch...and now China is imploding (at least economically).

Russia was/is always a threat, but folks forget the vast majority of Russia is poor and the country is killing itself.

I guess now it is India's time.

India has been in a state of implosion and chaos for centuries now, but still somehow things are still progressing. I'd be worried.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like a lack of widespread access to knowledge about critical race theory and queer studies? Just spitballing root causes here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AI will make math irrelevant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The nation needs people who are good at math, employers say, in the same way motion picture mortals need superheroes. They say America’s poor math performance isn’t funny. It’s a threat to the nation’s global economic competitiveness and national security.

“The advances in technology that are going to drive where the world goes in the next 50 years are going to come from other countries, because they have the intellectual capital and we don’t,” said Jim Stigler, a psychology professor at the University of California, Los Angeles, who studies the process of teaching and learning subjects including math.

The Defense Department has called for a major initiative to support education in science, technology, education and math, or STEM. It says there are eight times as many college graduates in these disciplines in China and four times as many engineers in Russia as in the United States.

“This is not an educational question alone,” said Josh Wyner, vice president of The Aspen Institute think tank. In July, the think tank warned that other nations, particularly China, are challenging America’s technological dominance. “Resolving the fundamental challenges facing our time requires math."

Meanwhile, the number of jobs in math occupations — positions that “use arithmetic and apply advanced techniques to make calculations, analyze data and solve problems” — will increase by more than 30,000 per year through the end of this decade, Bureau of Labor Statistics figures show. That’s much faster than most other kinds of jobs.

“Mathematics is becoming more and more a part of almost every career,” said Michael Allen, who chairs the math department at Tennessee Technological University.

But most American students aren't prepared for those jobs. In the most recent Program for International Student Assessment tests in math, or PISA, U.S. students scored lower than their counterparts in 36 other education systems worldwide. Students in China scored the highest. Only one in five college-bound American high school students is prepared for college-level courses in STEM, according to the National Science and Technology Council.

One result: Students from other countries are preparing to lead these fields. Only one in five graduate students in math-intensive subjects including computer science and electrical engineering at U.S. universities are American, the National Foundation for American Policy reports. The rest come from abroad. Most will leave the U.S. when they finish their programs.

In the U.S., poor math skills could mean lower salaries for today's kids. A Stanford economist has estimated that, if U.S. pandemic math declines are not reversed, students now in kindergarten through grade 12 will earn from 2% to 9% less over their careers, depending on what state they live in, than their predecessors educated just before the start of the pandemic.

But it also means the country's productivity and competitiveness could slide.

“Math just underpins everything,” said Megan Schrauben, executive director of the Michigan Department of Labor and Economic Opportunity’s MiSTEM initiative, which tries to get more students into STEM. “It’s extremely important for the future prosperity of our students and communities, but also our entire state.”

In Massachusetts, employers are anticipating a shortage over the next five years of 11,000 workers in the life sciences alone.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/americas-poor-math-skills-raise-041135854.html

Then create more seats at the college level. There are very qualified students applying to engineering and CS programs who can't get in.

Yep! It’s an easy answer. Currently schools are the chokehold. Make it easier for kids to get into STEMe majors. They will come. My kiddos are strong in math, have dabbled in CS and liked it, but aren’t natural coding whizzes and have tons of non coding interestests so aren’t event taking AP. Comp Sci. And would not apply to a school comp sci or engineering bc they wouldn’t have the right profit to get in. But, if there were more seats they’d be interested. Similarly to pre med -
There is a need for general prwctiokners but the bar for LEF school is so high.

It’s not the high school curriculum or intellect. It’s the crazy higher Ed system that is the limiting factor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

“This is not an educational question alone,” said Josh Wyner, vice president of The Aspen Institute think tank. In July, the think tank warned that other nations, particularly China, are challenging America’s technological dominance. “Resolving the fundamental challenges facing our time requires math."

Guess what degrees Josh Wyner has - JD and MPA. Not one person in the “Executive Team” of the Aspen Institute has an advanced degree requiring lots of math.

I don’t know what the Aspen Institute does, but it’s not “Resolving the fundamental challenges facing our time” because according to themselves that “requires math” and they don’t have that education. They want others to do that.

It’s so ridiculous. If you want more math - reward math with career opportunities for jobs at the top and make sure it’s a much better foundation than a JD, MBA or MPA. I don’t think that’s what they want, they don’t want to prioritize math.

For a smart and ambitious person, what’s the best path - what’s your advice? The answer to that question will tell you if math, which is hard, is worth it for most people. Right now it’s not. Elevated positions are filled with others. And if you think “lower your expectations and study math to secure a low level job with decent pay” is gonna do it - think again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The nation needs people who are good at math, employers say, in the same way motion picture mortals need superheroes. They say America’s poor math performance isn’t funny. It’s a threat to the nation’s global economic competitiveness and national security.

“The advances in technology that are going to drive where the world goes in the next 50 years are going to come from other countries, because they have the intellectual capital and we don’t,” said Jim Stigler, a psychology professor at the University of California, Los Angeles, who studies the process of teaching and learning subjects including math.

The Defense Department has called for a major initiative to support education in science, technology, education and math, or STEM. It says there are eight times as many college graduates in these disciplines in China and four times as many engineers in Russia as in the United States.

“This is not an educational question alone,” said Josh Wyner, vice president of The Aspen Institute think tank. In July, the think tank warned that other nations, particularly China, are challenging America’s technological dominance. “Resolving the fundamental challenges facing our time requires math."

Meanwhile, the number of jobs in math occupations — positions that “use arithmetic and apply advanced techniques to make calculations, analyze data and solve problems” — will increase by more than 30,000 per year through the end of this decade, Bureau of Labor Statistics figures show. That’s much faster than most other kinds of jobs.

“Mathematics is becoming more and more a part of almost every career,” said Michael Allen, who chairs the math department at Tennessee Technological University.

But most American students aren't prepared for those jobs. In the most recent Program for International Student Assessment tests in math, or PISA, U.S. students scored lower than their counterparts in 36 other education systems worldwide. Students in China scored the highest. Only one in five college-bound American high school students is prepared for college-level courses in STEM, according to the National Science and Technology Council.

One result: Students from other countries are preparing to lead these fields. Only one in five graduate students in math-intensive subjects including computer science and electrical engineering at U.S. universities are American, the National Foundation for American Policy reports. The rest come from abroad. Most will leave the U.S. when they finish their programs.

In the U.S., poor math skills could mean lower salaries for today's kids. A Stanford economist has estimated that, if U.S. pandemic math declines are not reversed, students now in kindergarten through grade 12 will earn from 2% to 9% less over their careers, depending on what state they live in, than their predecessors educated just before the start of the pandemic.

But it also means the country's productivity and competitiveness could slide.

“Math just underpins everything,” said Megan Schrauben, executive director of the Michigan Department of Labor and Economic Opportunity’s MiSTEM initiative, which tries to get more students into STEM. “It’s extremely important for the future prosperity of our students and communities, but also our entire state.”

In Massachusetts, employers are anticipating a shortage over the next five years of 11,000 workers in the life sciences alone.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/americas-poor-math-skills-raise-041135854.html

Then create more seats at the college level. There are very qualified students applying to engineering and CS programs who can't get in.

Yep! It’s an easy answer. Currently schools are the chokehold. Make it easier for kids to get into STEMe majors. They will come. My kiddos are strong in math, have dabbled in CS and liked it, but aren’t natural coding whizzes and have tons of non coding interestests so aren’t event taking AP. Comp Sci. And would not apply to a school comp sci or engineering bc they wouldn’t have the right profit to get in. But, if there were more seats they’d be interested. Similarly to pre med -
There is a need for general prwctiokners but the bar for LEF school is so high.

It’s not the high school curriculum or intellect. It’s the crazy higher Ed system that is the limiting factor.

It's exactly the opposite of what you state - there are plenty of seats and universities have increased these seats substantially over the past 15-20 years and they are still making more seats. The problem is with K-12 public education. We spend the MOST amount on public education among the developed nations but have the WORST results. Most HS grads can't add or subtract using simple fractions, decimals or percentages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The nation needs people who are good at math, employers say, in the same way motion picture mortals need superheroes. They say America’s poor math performance isn’t funny. It’s a threat to the nation’s global economic competitiveness and national security.

“The advances in technology that are going to drive where the world goes in the next 50 years are going to come from other countries, because they have the intellectual capital and we don’t,” said Jim Stigler, a psychology professor at the University of California, Los Angeles, who studies the process of teaching and learning subjects including math.

The Defense Department has called for a major initiative to support education in science, technology, education and math, or STEM. It says there are eight times as many college graduates in these disciplines in China and four times as many engineers in Russia as in the United States.

“This is not an educational question alone,” said Josh Wyner, vice president of The Aspen Institute think tank. In July, the think tank warned that other nations, particularly China, are challenging America’s technological dominance. “Resolving the fundamental challenges facing our time requires math."

Meanwhile, the number of jobs in math occupations — positions that “use arithmetic and apply advanced techniques to make calculations, analyze data and solve problems” — will increase by more than 30,000 per year through the end of this decade, Bureau of Labor Statistics figures show. That’s much faster than most other kinds of jobs.

“Mathematics is becoming more and more a part of almost every career,” said Michael Allen, who chairs the math department at Tennessee Technological University.

But most American students aren't prepared for those jobs. In the most recent Program for International Student Assessment tests in math, or PISA, U.S. students scored lower than their counterparts in 36 other education systems worldwide. Students in China scored the highest. Only one in five college-bound American high school students is prepared for college-level courses in STEM, according to the National Science and Technology Council.

One result: Students from other countries are preparing to lead these fields. Only one in five graduate students in math-intensive subjects including computer science and electrical engineering at U.S. universities are American, the National Foundation for American Policy reports. The rest come from abroad. Most will leave the U.S. when they finish their programs.

In the U.S., poor math skills could mean lower salaries for today's kids. A Stanford economist has estimated that, if U.S. pandemic math declines are not reversed, students now in kindergarten through grade 12 will earn from 2% to 9% less over their careers, depending on what state they live in, than their predecessors educated just before the start of the pandemic.

But it also means the country's productivity and competitiveness could slide.

“Math just underpins everything,” said Megan Schrauben, executive director of the Michigan Department of Labor and Economic Opportunity’s MiSTEM initiative, which tries to get more students into STEM. “It’s extremely important for the future prosperity of our students and communities, but also our entire state.”

In Massachusetts, employers are anticipating a shortage over the next five years of 11,000 workers in the life sciences alone.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/americas-poor-math-skills-raise-041135854.html

Then create more seats at the college level. There are very qualified students applying to engineering and CS programs who can't get in.

Yep! It’s an easy answer. Currently schools are the chokehold. Make it easier for kids to get into STEMe majors. They will come. My kiddos are strong in math, have dabbled in CS and liked it, but aren’t natural coding whizzes and have tons of non coding interestests so aren’t event taking AP. Comp Sci. And would not apply to a school comp sci or engineering bc they wouldn’t have the right profit to get in. But, if there were more seats they’d be interested. Similarly to pre med -
There is a need for general prwctiokners but the bar for LEF school is so high.

It’s not the high school curriculum or intellect. It’s the crazy higher Ed system that is the limiting factor.

It's exactly the opposite of what you state - there are plenty of seats and universities have increased these seats substantially over the past 15-20 years and they are still making more seats. The problem is with K-12 public education. We spend the MOST amount on public education among the developed nations but have the WORST results. Most HS grads can't add or subtract using simple fractions, decimals or percentages.

Because we don’t want them to be able to. If we taught those kids could do the math, we couldn’t use math exams to keep them out of our high schools and colleges.

We can’t have it both ways. In America, math is the social gatekeeper. So, we don’t teach math to the Americans we want to keep out.

But as the PP says, there’s a pernicious trickle-up effect. At just the moment when more doctors and engineers are needed, all our schools are designed to weed out the marginal student, not to support and strengthen him.