America's poor math skills raise alarms over global competitiveness

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think there are at least two different problems:

1) not enough people going into stem fields. There are at least three reasons for this: a) poor curricula in the k-12 grades makes kids not interested in these fields because they don’t see real world interesting use. Here in America kids have more choice in what they study than in many countries. B) insufficient capacity at higher education. They just don’t have the professors to increase capacity. C) relative compensation. These fields are really hard and the comp is okay but not great. You can make more money more easily in non-tech fields. See, eg, all the engineers that go back for a jD to do patent law. This relative wage disparity is not present in most countries.

2) Americans not in stem fields have poor math skills. I’m a lawyer and it’s shocking how often I have to explain simple algebra to other lawyers. People outside of math fields have little intuitive sense for numbers/math. I think common core is supposed to help with that by requiring kids to think about math in different ways instead of just focusing on the old solve this equation worksheets. I also think it’s a problem that most Americans take no math after 12th grade. It’s like a language or like a physical skill — if you don’t use it, you lose it. I don’t know a solution for that.

Funny...I remember working on a corporate transaction and in order to update the document the associate had to replace two, two digit numbers added together with a new set of numbers (think...previous was 57 +27, and now it is 59+28). The lawyer asked that I update the numbers because he didn't want to "screw it up".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who even ranks high schools? What are you talking about?

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/national-rankings

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The nation needs people who are good at math, employers say, in the same way motion picture mortals need superheroes. They say America’s poor math performance isn’t funny. It’s a threat to the nation’s global economic competitiveness and national security.

“The advances in technology that are going to drive where the world goes in the next 50 years are going to come from other countries, because they have the intellectual capital and we don’t,” said Jim Stigler, a psychology professor at the University of California, Los Angeles, who studies the process of teaching and learning subjects including math.

The Defense Department has called for a major initiative to support education in science, technology, education and math, or STEM. It says there are eight times as many college graduates in these disciplines in China and four times as many engineers in Russia as in the United States.

“This is not an educational question alone,” said Josh Wyner, vice president of The Aspen Institute think tank. In July, the think tank warned that other nations, particularly China, are challenging America’s technological dominance. “Resolving the fundamental challenges facing our time requires math."

Meanwhile, the number of jobs in math occupations — positions that “use arithmetic and apply advanced techniques to make calculations, analyze data and solve problems” — will increase by more than 30,000 per year through the end of this decade, Bureau of Labor Statistics figures show. That’s much faster than most other kinds of jobs.

“Mathematics is becoming more and more a part of almost every career,” said Michael Allen, who chairs the math department at Tennessee Technological University.

But most American students aren't prepared for those jobs. In the most recent Program for International Student Assessment tests in math, or PISA, U.S. students scored lower than their counterparts in 36 other education systems worldwide. Students in China scored the highest. Only one in five college-bound American high school students is prepared for college-level courses in STEM, according to the National Science and Technology Council.

One result: Students from other countries are preparing to lead these fields. Only one in five graduate students in math-intensive subjects including computer science and electrical engineering at U.S. universities are American, the National Foundation for American Policy reports. The rest come from abroad. Most will leave the U.S. when they finish their programs.

In the U.S., poor math skills could mean lower salaries for today's kids. A Stanford economist has estimated that, if U.S. pandemic math declines are not reversed, students now in kindergarten through grade 12 will earn from 2% to 9% less over their careers, depending on what state they live in, than their predecessors educated just before the start of the pandemic.

But it also means the country's productivity and competitiveness could slide.

“Math just underpins everything,” said Megan Schrauben, executive director of the Michigan Department of Labor and Economic Opportunity’s MiSTEM initiative, which tries to get more students into STEM. “It’s extremely important for the future prosperity of our students and communities, but also our entire state.”

In Massachusetts, employers are anticipating a shortage over the next five years of 11,000 workers in the life sciences alone.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/americas-poor-math-skills-raise-041135854.html

Then create more seats at the college level. There are very qualified students applying to engineering and CS programs who can't get in.

That is not true for college overall...there are plenty of schools that accept 90%+ of their students that offer engineering and CS. You are referencing only the selective schools.

I have read articles in the past about how in China and India...like 80%+ of their engineering and STEM graduates essentially graduated from the equivalent of Devry. These countries have hundreds of colleges that give kids the degree, but it is literally worthless.

There must be a typo in the article. It references that jobs requiring stronger Math will increase by 30,000 per year...in an economy that generates millions of jobs per year, that is next to nothing which seems off to me.

I think their post is mostly scare tactic nonsense. Every year the AMC and AIME tests keep getting harder and harder because the top kids are doing better. The US is always among the top countries in the math olympiad these days.

These bulk statistics being used to raise alarms include outsided numbers of recent immigrants who often aren't fluent in English and this has an impact on overall averages. This is to be expected and not indicative of a crisis.

Did youlook at the members on the US teams? Almost all of them are Asian students.

[Anonymous]

In this individualist country, the rich take their kids and put them in expensive private schools. Then the country is surprised that as a nation we fail against countries where life is more of a team effort?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The nation needs people who are good at math, employers say, in the same way motion picture mortals need superheroes. They say America’s poor math performance isn’t funny. It’s a threat to the nation’s global economic competitiveness and national security.

“The advances in technology that are going to drive where the world goes in the next 50 years are going to come from other countries, because they have the intellectual capital and we don’t,” said Jim Stigler, a psychology professor at the University of California, Los Angeles, who studies the process of teaching and learning subjects including math.

The Defense Department has called for a major initiative to support education in science, technology, education and math, or STEM. It says there are eight times as many college graduates in these disciplines in China and four times as many engineers in Russia as in the United States.

“This is not an educational question alone,” said Josh Wyner, vice president of The Aspen Institute think tank. In July, the think tank warned that other nations, particularly China, are challenging America’s technological dominance. “Resolving the fundamental challenges facing our time requires math."

Meanwhile, the number of jobs in math occupations — positions that “use arithmetic and apply advanced techniques to make calculations, analyze data and solve problems” — will increase by more than 30,000 per year through the end of this decade, Bureau of Labor Statistics figures show. That’s much faster than most other kinds of jobs.

“Mathematics is becoming more and more a part of almost every career,” said Michael Allen, who chairs the math department at Tennessee Technological University.

But most American students aren't prepared for those jobs. In the most recent Program for International Student Assessment tests in math, or PISA, U.S. students scored lower than their counterparts in 36 other education systems worldwide. Students in China scored the highest. Only one in five college-bound American high school students is prepared for college-level courses in STEM, according to the National Science and Technology Council.

One result: Students from other countries are preparing to lead these fields. Only one in five graduate students in math-intensive subjects including computer science and electrical engineering at U.S. universities are American, the National Foundation for American Policy reports. The rest come from abroad. Most will leave the U.S. when they finish their programs.

In the U.S., poor math skills could mean lower salaries for today's kids. A Stanford economist has estimated that, if U.S. pandemic math declines are not reversed, students now in kindergarten through grade 12 will earn from 2% to 9% less over their careers, depending on what state they live in, than their predecessors educated just before the start of the pandemic.

But it also means the country's productivity and competitiveness could slide.

“Math just underpins everything,” said Megan Schrauben, executive director of the Michigan Department of Labor and Economic Opportunity’s MiSTEM initiative, which tries to get more students into STEM. “It’s extremely important for the future prosperity of our students and communities, but also our entire state.”

In Massachusetts, employers are anticipating a shortage over the next five years of 11,000 workers in the life sciences alone.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/americas-poor-math-skills-raise-041135854.html

Then create more seats at the college level. There are very qualified students applying to engineering and CS programs who can't get in.

That is not true for college overall...there are plenty of schools that accept 90%+ of their students that offer engineering and CS. You are referencing only the selective schools.

I have read articles in the past about how in China and India...like 80%+ of their engineering and STEM graduates essentially graduated from the equivalent of Devry. These countries have hundreds of colleges that give kids the degree, but it is literally worthless.

There must be a typo in the article. It references that jobs requiring stronger Math will increase by 30,000 per year...in an economy that generates millions of jobs per year, that is next to nothing which seems off to me.

I think their post is mostly scare tactic nonsense. Every year the AMC and AIME tests keep getting harder and harder because the top kids are doing better. The US is always among the top countries in the math olympiad these days.

These bulk statistics being used to raise alarms include outsided numbers of recent immigrants who often aren't fluent in English and this has an impact on overall averages. This is to be expected and not indicative of a crisis.

Did youlook at the members on the US teams? Almost all of them are Asian students.

OK...but they are still Americans are they not (I actually don't know if they need to be US citizens or not)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The nation needs people who are good at math, employers say, in the same way motion picture mortals need superheroes. They say America’s poor math performance isn’t funny. It’s a threat to the nation’s global economic competitiveness and national security.

“The advances in technology that are going to drive where the world goes in the next 50 years are going to come from other countries, because they have the intellectual capital and we don’t,” said Jim Stigler, a psychology professor at the University of California, Los Angeles, who studies the process of teaching and learning subjects including math.

The Defense Department has called for a major initiative to support education in science, technology, education and math, or STEM. It says there are eight times as many college graduates in these disciplines in China and four times as many engineers in Russia as in the United States.

“This is not an educational question alone,” said Josh Wyner, vice president of The Aspen Institute think tank. In July, the think tank warned that other nations, particularly China, are challenging America’s technological dominance. “Resolving the fundamental challenges facing our time requires math."

Meanwhile, the number of jobs in math occupations — positions that “use arithmetic and apply advanced techniques to make calculations, analyze data and solve problems” — will increase by more than 30,000 per year through the end of this decade, Bureau of Labor Statistics figures show. That’s much faster than most other kinds of jobs.

“Mathematics is becoming more and more a part of almost every career,” said Michael Allen, who chairs the math department at Tennessee Technological University.

But most American students aren't prepared for those jobs. In the most recent Program for International Student Assessment tests in math, or PISA, U.S. students scored lower than their counterparts in 36 other education systems worldwide. Students in China scored the highest. Only one in five college-bound American high school students is prepared for college-level courses in STEM, according to the National Science and Technology Council.

One result: Students from other countries are preparing to lead these fields. Only one in five graduate students in math-intensive subjects including computer science and electrical engineering at U.S. universities are American, the National Foundation for American Policy reports. The rest come from abroad. Most will leave the U.S. when they finish their programs.

In the U.S., poor math skills could mean lower salaries for today's kids. A Stanford economist has estimated that, if U.S. pandemic math declines are not reversed, students now in kindergarten through grade 12 will earn from 2% to 9% less over their careers, depending on what state they live in, than their predecessors educated just before the start of the pandemic.

But it also means the country's productivity and competitiveness could slide.

“Math just underpins everything,” said Megan Schrauben, executive director of the Michigan Department of Labor and Economic Opportunity’s MiSTEM initiative, which tries to get more students into STEM. “It’s extremely important for the future prosperity of our students and communities, but also our entire state.”

In Massachusetts, employers are anticipating a shortage over the next five years of 11,000 workers in the life sciences alone.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/americas-poor-math-skills-raise-041135854.html

Then create more seats at the college level. There are very qualified students applying to engineering and CS programs who can't get in.

That is not true for college overall...there are plenty of schools that accept 90%+ of their students that offer engineering and CS. You are referencing only the selective schools.

I have read articles in the past about how in China and India...like 80%+ of their engineering and STEM graduates essentially graduated from the equivalent of Devry. These countries have hundreds of colleges that give kids the degree, but it is literally worthless.

There must be a typo in the article. It references that jobs requiring stronger Math will increase by 30,000 per year...in an economy that generates millions of jobs per year, that is next to nothing which seems off to me.

I think their post is mostly scare tactic nonsense. Every year the AMC and AIME tests keep getting harder and harder because the top kids are doing better. The US is always among the top countries in the math olympiad these days.

These bulk statistics being used to raise alarms include outsided numbers of recent immigrants who often aren't fluent in English and this has an impact on overall averages. This is to be expected and not indicative of a crisis.

Did youlook at the members on the US teams? Almost all of them are Asian students.

OK...but they are still Americans are they not (I actually don't know if they need to be US citizens or not)?

I think some of the USA team members attend top privates as international students and almost all of them are Asians as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The nation needs people who are good at math, employers say, in the same way motion picture mortals need superheroes. They say America’s poor math performance isn’t funny. It’s a threat to the nation’s global economic competitiveness and national security.

“The advances in technology that are going to drive where the world goes in the next 50 years are going to come from other countries, because they have the intellectual capital and we don’t,” said Jim Stigler, a psychology professor at the University of California, Los Angeles, who studies the process of teaching and learning subjects including math.

The Defense Department has called for a major initiative to support education in science, technology, education and math, or STEM. It says there are eight times as many college graduates in these disciplines in China and four times as many engineers in Russia as in the United States.

“This is not an educational question alone,” said Josh Wyner, vice president of The Aspen Institute think tank. In July, the think tank warned that other nations, particularly China, are challenging America’s technological dominance. “Resolving the fundamental challenges facing our time requires math."

Meanwhile, the number of jobs in math occupations — positions that “use arithmetic and apply advanced techniques to make calculations, analyze data and solve problems” — will increase by more than 30,000 per year through the end of this decade, Bureau of Labor Statistics figures show. That’s much faster than most other kinds of jobs.

“Mathematics is becoming more and more a part of almost every career,” said Michael Allen, who chairs the math department at Tennessee Technological University.

But most American students aren't prepared for those jobs. In the most recent Program for International Student Assessment tests in math, or PISA, U.S. students scored lower than their counterparts in 36 other education systems worldwide. Students in China scored the highest. Only one in five college-bound American high school students is prepared for college-level courses in STEM, according to the National Science and Technology Council.

One result: Students from other countries are preparing to lead these fields. Only one in five graduate students in math-intensive subjects including computer science and electrical engineering at U.S. universities are American, the National Foundation for American Policy reports. The rest come from abroad. Most will leave the U.S. when they finish their programs.

In the U.S., poor math skills could mean lower salaries for today's kids. A Stanford economist has estimated that, if U.S. pandemic math declines are not reversed, students now in kindergarten through grade 12 will earn from 2% to 9% less over their careers, depending on what state they live in, than their predecessors educated just before the start of the pandemic.

But it also means the country's productivity and competitiveness could slide.

“Math just underpins everything,” said Megan Schrauben, executive director of the Michigan Department of Labor and Economic Opportunity’s MiSTEM initiative, which tries to get more students into STEM. “It’s extremely important for the future prosperity of our students and communities, but also our entire state.”

In Massachusetts, employers are anticipating a shortage over the next five years of 11,000 workers in the life sciences alone.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/americas-poor-math-skills-raise-041135854.html

Then create more seats at the college level. There are very qualified students applying to engineering and CS programs who can't get in.

That is not true for college overall...there are plenty of schools that accept 90%+ of their students that offer engineering and CS. You are referencing only the selective schools.

I have read articles in the past about how in China and India...like 80%+ of their engineering and STEM graduates essentially graduated from the equivalent of Devry. These countries have hundreds of colleges that give kids the degree, but it is literally worthless.

There must be a typo in the article. It references that jobs requiring stronger Math will increase by 30,000 per year...in an economy that generates millions of jobs per year, that is next to nothing which seems off to me.

I think their post is mostly scare tactic nonsense. Every year the AMC and AIME tests keep getting harder and harder because the top kids are doing better. The US is always among the top countries in the math olympiad these days.

These bulk statistics being used to raise alarms include outsided numbers of recent immigrants who often aren't fluent in English and this has an impact on overall averages. This is to be expected and not indicative of a crisis.

Did youlook at the members on the US teams? Almost all of them are Asian students.

OK...but they are still Americans are they not (I actually don't know if they need to be US citizens or not)?

I think some of the USA team members attend top privates as international students and almost all of them are Asians as well.

And the American students on the team coming from public high schools are all from magnet schools such as TJ etc. not from regular high schools. Sad situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The nation needs people who are good at math, employers say, in the same way motion picture mortals need superheroes. They say America’s poor math performance isn’t funny. It’s a threat to the nation’s global economic competitiveness and national security.

“The advances in technology that are going to drive where the world goes in the next 50 years are going to come from other countries, because they have the intellectual capital and we don’t,” said Jim Stigler, a psychology professor at the University of California, Los Angeles, who studies the process of teaching and learning subjects including math.

The Defense Department has called for a major initiative to support education in science, technology, education and math, or STEM. It says there are eight times as many college graduates in these disciplines in China and four times as many engineers in Russia as in the United States.

“This is not an educational question alone,” said Josh Wyner, vice president of The Aspen Institute think tank. In July, the think tank warned that other nations, particularly China, are challenging America’s technological dominance. “Resolving the fundamental challenges facing our time requires math."

Meanwhile, the number of jobs in math occupations — positions that “use arithmetic and apply advanced techniques to make calculations, analyze data and solve problems” — will increase by more than 30,000 per year through the end of this decade, Bureau of Labor Statistics figures show. That’s much faster than most other kinds of jobs.

“Mathematics is becoming more and more a part of almost every career,” said Michael Allen, who chairs the math department at Tennessee Technological University.

But most American students aren't prepared for those jobs. In the most recent Program for International Student Assessment tests in math, or PISA, U.S. students scored lower than their counterparts in 36 other education systems worldwide. Students in China scored the highest. Only one in five college-bound American high school students is prepared for college-level courses in STEM, according to the National Science and Technology Council.

One result: Students from other countries are preparing to lead these fields. Only one in five graduate students in math-intensive subjects including computer science and electrical engineering at U.S. universities are American, the National Foundation for American Policy reports. The rest come from abroad. Most will leave the U.S. when they finish their programs.

In the U.S., poor math skills could mean lower salaries for today's kids. A Stanford economist has estimated that, if U.S. pandemic math declines are not reversed, students now in kindergarten through grade 12 will earn from 2% to 9% less over their careers, depending on what state they live in, than their predecessors educated just before the start of the pandemic.

But it also means the country's productivity and competitiveness could slide.

“Math just underpins everything,” said Megan Schrauben, executive director of the Michigan Department of Labor and Economic Opportunity’s MiSTEM initiative, which tries to get more students into STEM. “It’s extremely important for the future prosperity of our students and communities, but also our entire state.”

In Massachusetts, employers are anticipating a shortage over the next five years of 11,000 workers in the life sciences alone.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/americas-poor-math-skills-raise-041135854.html

Then create more seats at the college level. There are very qualified students applying to engineering and CS programs who can't get in.

That is not true for college overall...there are plenty of schools that accept 90%+ of their students that offer engineering and CS. You are referencing only the selective schools.

I have read articles in the past about how in China and India...like 80%+ of their engineering and STEM graduates essentially graduated from the equivalent of Devry. These countries have hundreds of colleges that give kids the degree, but it is literally worthless.

There must be a typo in the article. It references that jobs requiring stronger Math will increase by 30,000 per year...in an economy that generates millions of jobs per year, that is next to nothing which seems off to me.

I think their post is mostly scare tactic nonsense. Every year the AMC and AIME tests keep getting harder and harder because the top kids are doing better. The US is always among the top countries in the math olympiad these days.

These bulk statistics being used to raise alarms include outsided numbers of recent immigrants who often aren't fluent in English and this has an impact on overall averages. This is to be expected and not indicative of a crisis.

Did youlook at the members on the US teams? Almost all of them are Asian students.

OK...but they are still Americans are they not (I actually don't know if they need to be US citizens or not)?

I think some of the USA team members attend top privates as international students and almost all of them are Asians as well.

And the American students on the team coming from public high schools are all from magnet schools such as TJ etc. not from regular high schools. Sad situation.

Why is that sad? Are the non-us teams filled with kids attending average high schools in their home countries?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The nation needs people who are good at math, employers say, in the same way motion picture mortals need superheroes. They say America’s poor math performance isn’t funny. It’s a threat to the nation’s global economic competitiveness and national security.

“The advances in technology that are going to drive where the world goes in the next 50 years are going to come from other countries, because they have the intellectual capital and we don’t,” said Jim Stigler, a psychology professor at the University of California, Los Angeles, who studies the process of teaching and learning subjects including math.

The Defense Department has called for a major initiative to support education in science, technology, education and math, or STEM. It says there are eight times as many college graduates in these disciplines in China and four times as many engineers in Russia as in the United States.

“This is not an educational question alone,” said Josh Wyner, vice president of The Aspen Institute think tank. In July, the think tank warned that other nations, particularly China, are challenging America’s technological dominance. “Resolving the fundamental challenges facing our time requires math."

Meanwhile, the number of jobs in math occupations — positions that “use arithmetic and apply advanced techniques to make calculations, analyze data and solve problems” — will increase by more than 30,000 per year through the end of this decade, Bureau of Labor Statistics figures show. That’s much faster than most other kinds of jobs.

“Mathematics is becoming more and more a part of almost every career,” said Michael Allen, who chairs the math department at Tennessee Technological University.

But most American students aren't prepared for those jobs. In the most recent Program for International Student Assessment tests in math, or PISA, U.S. students scored lower than their counterparts in 36 other education systems worldwide. Students in China scored the highest. Only one in five college-bound American high school students is prepared for college-level courses in STEM, according to the National Science and Technology Council.

One result: Students from other countries are preparing to lead these fields. Only one in five graduate students in math-intensive subjects including computer science and electrical engineering at U.S. universities are American, the National Foundation for American Policy reports. The rest come from abroad. Most will leave the U.S. when they finish their programs.

In the U.S., poor math skills could mean lower salaries for today's kids. A Stanford economist has estimated that, if U.S. pandemic math declines are not reversed, students now in kindergarten through grade 12 will earn from 2% to 9% less over their careers, depending on what state they live in, than their predecessors educated just before the start of the pandemic.

But it also means the country's productivity and competitiveness could slide.

“Math just underpins everything,” said Megan Schrauben, executive director of the Michigan Department of Labor and Economic Opportunity’s MiSTEM initiative, which tries to get more students into STEM. “It’s extremely important for the future prosperity of our students and communities, but also our entire state.”

In Massachusetts, employers are anticipating a shortage over the next five years of 11,000 workers in the life sciences alone.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/americas-poor-math-skills-raise-041135854.html

Then create more seats at the college level. There are very qualified students applying to engineering and CS programs who can't get in.

That is not true for college overall...there are plenty of schools that accept 90%+ of their students that offer engineering and CS. You are referencing only the selective schools.

I have read articles in the past about how in China and India...like 80%+ of their engineering and STEM graduates essentially graduated from the equivalent of Devry. These countries have hundreds of colleges that give kids the degree, but it is literally worthless.

There must be a typo in the article. It references that jobs requiring stronger Math will increase by 30,000 per year...in an economy that generates millions of jobs per year, that is next to nothing which seems off to me.

I think their post is mostly scare tactic nonsense. Every year the AMC and AIME tests keep getting harder and harder because the top kids are doing better. The US is always among the top countries in the math olympiad these days.

These bulk statistics being used to raise alarms include outsided numbers of recent immigrants who often aren't fluent in English and this has an impact on overall averages. This is to be expected and not indicative of a crisis.

Did youlook at the members on the US teams? Almost all of them are Asian students.

Asians are Americans …

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The nation needs people who are good at math, employers say, in the same way motion picture mortals need superheroes. They say America’s poor math performance isn’t funny. It’s a threat to the nation’s global economic competitiveness and national security.

“The advances in technology that are going to drive where the world goes in the next 50 years are going to come from other countries, because they have the intellectual capital and we don’t,” said Jim Stigler, a psychology professor at the University of California, Los Angeles, who studies the process of teaching and learning subjects including math.

The Defense Department has called for a major initiative to support education in science, technology, education and math, or STEM. It says there are eight times as many college graduates in these disciplines in China and four times as many engineers in Russia as in the United States.

“This is not an educational question alone,” said Josh Wyner, vice president of The Aspen Institute think tank. In July, the think tank warned that other nations, particularly China, are challenging America’s technological dominance. “Resolving the fundamental challenges facing our time requires math."

Meanwhile, the number of jobs in math occupations — positions that “use arithmetic and apply advanced techniques to make calculations, analyze data and solve problems” — will increase by more than 30,000 per year through the end of this decade, Bureau of Labor Statistics figures show. That’s much faster than most other kinds of jobs.

“Mathematics is becoming more and more a part of almost every career,” said Michael Allen, who chairs the math department at Tennessee Technological University.

But most American students aren't prepared for those jobs. In the most recent Program for International Student Assessment tests in math, or PISA, U.S. students scored lower than their counterparts in 36 other education systems worldwide. Students in China scored the highest. Only one in five college-bound American high school students is prepared for college-level courses in STEM, according to the National Science and Technology Council.

One result: Students from other countries are preparing to lead these fields. Only one in five graduate students in math-intensive subjects including computer science and electrical engineering at U.S. universities are American, the National Foundation for American Policy reports. The rest come from abroad. Most will leave the U.S. when they finish their programs.

In the U.S., poor math skills could mean lower salaries for today's kids. A Stanford economist has estimated that, if U.S. pandemic math declines are not reversed, students now in kindergarten through grade 12 will earn from 2% to 9% less over their careers, depending on what state they live in, than their predecessors educated just before the start of the pandemic.

But it also means the country's productivity and competitiveness could slide.

“Math just underpins everything,” said Megan Schrauben, executive director of the Michigan Department of Labor and Economic Opportunity’s MiSTEM initiative, which tries to get more students into STEM. “It’s extremely important for the future prosperity of our students and communities, but also our entire state.”

In Massachusetts, employers are anticipating a shortage over the next five years of 11,000 workers in the life sciences alone.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/americas-poor-math-skills-raise-041135854.html

Then create more seats at the college level. There are very qualified students applying to engineering and CS programs who can't get in.

That is not true for college overall...there are plenty of schools that accept 90%+ of their students that offer engineering and CS. You are referencing only the selective schools.

I have read articles in the past about how in China and India...like 80%+ of their engineering and STEM graduates essentially graduated from the equivalent of Devry. These countries have hundreds of colleges that give kids the degree, but it is literally worthless.

There must be a typo in the article. It references that jobs requiring stronger Math will increase by 30,000 per year...in an economy that generates millions of jobs per year, that is next to nothing which seems off to me.

I think their post is mostly scare tactic nonsense. Every year the AMC and AIME tests keep getting harder and harder because the top kids are doing better. The US is always among the top countries in the math olympiad these days.

These bulk statistics being used to raise alarms include outsided numbers of recent immigrants who often aren't fluent in English and this has an impact on overall averages. This is to be expected and not indicative of a crisis.

Did you look at the members on the US teams? Almost all of them are Asian students.

OK...but they are still Americans are they not (I actually don't know if they need to be US citizens or not)?

I think some of the USA team members attend top privates as international students and almost all of them are Asians as well.

You have to be a citizen or long-term resident of the country. But the point is that these are still (all USA(J)MO qualifiers) only 500. Add in a couple of thousand more AIME qualifiers and still it is a small pool and focusing on these is irrelevant. However the larger point of less-than-rigorous math education is probably correct. In DC, the number of 5s in various math PARCCs even in Upper NW schools is lower than what would be expected, given the demographics. This is also reflected in the vanishingly low numbers of AIME/JMO/AMO qualifiers from DCPS or Charter schools in the last 5-10 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The nation needs people who are good at math, employers say, in the same way motion picture mortals need superheroes. They say America’s poor math performance isn’t funny. It’s a threat to the nation’s global economic competitiveness and national security.

“The advances in technology that are going to drive where the world goes in the next 50 years are going to come from other countries, because they have the intellectual capital and we don’t,” said Jim Stigler, a psychology professor at the University of California, Los Angeles, who studies the process of teaching and learning subjects including math.

The Defense Department has called for a major initiative to support education in science, technology, education and math, or STEM. It says there are eight times as many college graduates in these disciplines in China and four times as many engineers in Russia as in the United States.

“This is not an educational question alone,” said Josh Wyner, vice president of The Aspen Institute think tank. In July, the think tank warned that other nations, particularly China, are challenging America’s technological dominance. “Resolving the fundamental challenges facing our time requires math."

Meanwhile, the number of jobs in math occupations — positions that “use arithmetic and apply advanced techniques to make calculations, analyze data and solve problems” — will increase by more than 30,000 per year through the end of this decade, Bureau of Labor Statistics figures show. That’s much faster than most other kinds of jobs.

“Mathematics is becoming more and more a part of almost every career,” said Michael Allen, who chairs the math department at Tennessee Technological University.

But most American students aren't prepared for those jobs. In the most recent Program for International Student Assessment tests in math, or PISA, U.S. students scored lower than their counterparts in 36 other education systems worldwide. Students in China scored the highest. Only one in five college-bound American high school students is prepared for college-level courses in STEM, according to the National Science and Technology Council.

One result: Students from other countries are preparing to lead these fields. Only one in five graduate students in math-intensive subjects including computer science and electrical engineering at U.S. universities are American, the National Foundation for American Policy reports. The rest come from abroad. Most will leave the U.S. when they finish their programs.

In the U.S., poor math skills could mean lower salaries for today's kids. A Stanford economist has estimated that, if U.S. pandemic math declines are not reversed, students now in kindergarten through grade 12 will earn from 2% to 9% less over their careers, depending on what state they live in, than their predecessors educated just before the start of the pandemic.

But it also means the country's productivity and competitiveness could slide.

“Math just underpins everything,” said Megan Schrauben, executive director of the Michigan Department of Labor and Economic Opportunity’s MiSTEM initiative, which tries to get more students into STEM. “It’s extremely important for the future prosperity of our students and communities, but also our entire state.”

In Massachusetts, employers are anticipating a shortage over the next five years of 11,000 workers in the life sciences alone.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/americas-poor-math-skills-raise-041135854.html

Then create more seats at the college level. There are very qualified students applying to engineering and CS programs who can't get in.

That is not true for college overall...there are plenty of schools that accept 90%+ of their students that offer engineering and CS. You are referencing only the selective schools.

I have read articles in the past about how in China and India...like 80%+ of their engineering and STEM graduates essentially graduated from the equivalent of Devry. These countries have hundreds of colleges that give kids the degree, but it is literally worthless.

There must be a typo in the article. It references that jobs requiring stronger Math will increase by 30,000 per year...in an economy that generates millions of jobs per year, that is next to nothing which seems off to me.

I think their post is mostly scare tactic nonsense. Every year the AMC and AIME tests keep getting harder and harder because the top kids are doing better. The US is always among the top countries in the math olympiad these days.

These bulk statistics being used to raise alarms include outsided numbers of recent immigrants who often aren't fluent in English and this has an impact on overall averages. This is to be expected and not indicative of a crisis.

Did youlook at the members on the US teams? Almost all of them are Asian students.

OK...but they are still Americans are they not (I actually don't know if they need to be US citizens or not)?

I think some of the USA team members attend top privates as international students and almost all of them are Asians as well.

And the American students on the team coming from public high schools are all from magnet schools such as TJ etc. not from regular high schools. Sad situation.

Why is that sad? Are the non-us teams filled with kids attending average high schools in their home countries?

I doubt it. The Chinese team is all kids from elite HSs in Beijing or Shanghai. The reason China's PISA numbers are so high is because those are the only kids that take the test as well.

A NYT reporter spent time in all the other parts of China and said their general education system is appalling. 120 kids in one class of different ages in a rundown building all taught by the same teacher...many kids basically illiterate. Again, 80% of China has a terrible formal education. Of course, the country is so large that you still have 200MM people in other 20%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The nation needs people who are good at math, employers say, in the same way motion picture mortals need superheroes. They say America’s poor math performance isn’t funny. It’s a threat to the nation’s global economic competitiveness and national security.

“The advances in technology that are going to drive where the world goes in the next 50 years are going to come from other countries, because they have the intellectual capital and we don’t,” said Jim Stigler, a psychology professor at the University of California, Los Angeles, who studies the process of teaching and learning subjects including math.

The Defense Department has called for a major initiative to support education in science, technology, education and math, or STEM. It says there are eight times as many college graduates in these disciplines in China and four times as many engineers in Russia as in the United States.

“This is not an educational question alone,” said Josh Wyner, vice president of The Aspen Institute think tank. In July, the think tank warned that other nations, particularly China, are challenging America’s technological dominance. “Resolving the fundamental challenges facing our time requires math."

Meanwhile, the number of jobs in math occupations — positions that “use arithmetic and apply advanced techniques to make calculations, analyze data and solve problems” — will increase by more than 30,000 per year through the end of this decade, Bureau of Labor Statistics figures show. That’s much faster than most other kinds of jobs.

“Mathematics is becoming more and more a part of almost every career,” said Michael Allen, who chairs the math department at Tennessee Technological University.

But most American students aren't prepared for those jobs. In the most recent Program for International Student Assessment tests in math, or PISA, U.S. students scored lower than their counterparts in 36 other education systems worldwide. Students in China scored the highest. Only one in five college-bound American high school students is prepared for college-level courses in STEM, according to the National Science and Technology Council.

One result: Students from other countries are preparing to lead these fields. Only one in five graduate students in math-intensive subjects including computer science and electrical engineering at U.S. universities are American, the National Foundation for American Policy reports. The rest come from abroad. Most will leave the U.S. when they finish their programs.

In the U.S., poor math skills could mean lower salaries for today's kids. A Stanford economist has estimated that, if U.S. pandemic math declines are not reversed, students now in kindergarten through grade 12 will earn from 2% to 9% less over their careers, depending on what state they live in, than their predecessors educated just before the start of the pandemic.

But it also means the country's productivity and competitiveness could slide.

“Math just underpins everything,” said Megan Schrauben, executive director of the Michigan Department of Labor and Economic Opportunity’s MiSTEM initiative, which tries to get more students into STEM. “It’s extremely important for the future prosperity of our students and communities, but also our entire state.”

In Massachusetts, employers are anticipating a shortage over the next five years of 11,000 workers in the life sciences alone.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/americas-poor-math-skills-raise-041135854.html

Then create more seats at the college level. There are very qualified students applying to engineering and CS programs who can't get in.

That is not true for college overall...there are plenty of schools that accept 90%+ of their students that offer engineering and CS. You are referencing only the selective schools.

I have read articles in the past about how in China and India...like 80%+ of their engineering and STEM graduates essentially graduated from the equivalent of Devry. These countries have hundreds of colleges that give kids the degree, but it is literally worthless.

There must be a typo in the article. It references that jobs requiring stronger Math will increase by 30,000 per year...in an economy that generates millions of jobs per year, that is next to nothing which seems off to me.

I think their post is mostly scare tactic nonsense. Every year the AMC and AIME tests keep getting harder and harder because the top kids are doing better. The US is always among the top countries in the math olympiad these days.

These bulk statistics being used to raise alarms include outsided numbers of recent immigrants who often aren't fluent in English and this has an impact on overall averages. This is to be expected and not indicative of a crisis.

Did you look at the members on the US teams? Almost all of them are Asian students.

OK...but they are still Americans are they not (I actually don't know if they need to be US citizens or not)?

I think some of the USA team members attend top privates as international students and almost all of them are Asians as well.

You have to be a citizen or long-term resident of the country. But the point is that these are still (all USA(J)MO qualifiers) only 500. Add in a couple of thousand more AIME qualifiers and still it is a small pool and focusing on these is irrelevant. However the larger point of less-than-rigorous math education is probably correct. In DC, the number of 5s in various math PARCCs even in Upper NW schools is lower than what would be expected, given the demographics. This is also reflected in the vanishingly low numbers of AIME/JMO/AMO qualifiers from DCPS or Charter schools in the last 5-10 years.

In fairness, my DCPS kid scored a 5 on the AP BC calc exam and had an 800 in the math on the SAT...but did not sit for any AIME/JMO/AMO qualifiers, nor do I think my kid even knew how to do so. Did take the Canada Euclid test (same?) because was interested in Toronto and scored very high.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there are at least two different problems:

1) not enough people going into stem fields. There are at least three reasons for this: a) poor curricula in the k-12 grades makes kids not interested in these fields because they don’t see real world interesting use. Here in America kids have more choice in what they study than in many countries. B) insufficient capacity at higher education. They just don’t have the professors to increase capacity. C) relative compensation. These fields are really hard and the comp is okay but not great. You can make more money more easily in non-tech fields. See, eg, all the engineers that go back for a jD to do patent law. This relative wage disparity is not present in most countries.

2) Americans not in stem fields have poor math skills. I’m a lawyer and it’s shocking how often I have to explain simple algebra to other lawyers. People outside of math fields have little intuitive sense for numbers/math. I think common core is supposed to help with that by requiring kids to think about math in different ways instead of just focusing on the old solve this equation worksheets. I also think it’s a problem that most Americans take no math after 12th grade. It’s like a language or like a physical skill — if you don’t use it, you lose it. I don’t know a solution for that.

Funny...I remember working on a corporate transaction and in order to update the document the associate had to replace two, two digit numbers added together with a new set of numbers (think...previous was 57 +27, and now it is 59+28). The lawyer asked that I update the numbers because he didn't want to "screw it up".

I work in stem with PhDs (life sciences) and its amazing how many people are bad at basic math. I'm always needing to calculate drug concentrations for other people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The nation needs people who are good at math, employers say, in the same way motion picture mortals need superheroes. They say America’s poor math performance isn’t funny. It’s a threat to the nation’s global economic competitiveness and national security.

“The advances in technology that are going to drive where the world goes in the next 50 years are going to come from other countries, because they have the intellectual capital and we don’t,” said Jim Stigler, a psychology professor at the University of California, Los Angeles, who studies the process of teaching and learning subjects including math.

The Defense Department has called for a major initiative to support education in science, technology, education and math, or STEM. It says there are eight times as many college graduates in these disciplines in China and four times as many engineers in Russia as in the United States.

“This is not an educational question alone,” said Josh Wyner, vice president of The Aspen Institute think tank. In July, the think tank warned that other nations, particularly China, are challenging America’s technological dominance. “Resolving the fundamental challenges facing our time requires math."

Meanwhile, the number of jobs in math occupations — positions that “use arithmetic and apply advanced techniques to make calculations, analyze data and solve problems” — will increase by more than 30,000 per year through the end of this decade, Bureau of Labor Statistics figures show. That’s much faster than most other kinds of jobs.

“Mathematics is becoming more and more a part of almost every career,” said Michael Allen, who chairs the math department at Tennessee Technological University.

But most American students aren't prepared for those jobs. In the most recent Program for International Student Assessment tests in math, or PISA, U.S. students scored lower than their counterparts in 36 other education systems worldwide. Students in China scored the highest. Only one in five college-bound American high school students is prepared for college-level courses in STEM, according to the National Science and Technology Council.

One result: Students from other countries are preparing to lead these fields. Only one in five graduate students in math-intensive subjects including computer science and electrical engineering at U.S. universities are American, the National Foundation for American Policy reports. The rest come from abroad. Most will leave the U.S. when they finish their programs.

In the U.S., poor math skills could mean lower salaries for today's kids. A Stanford economist has estimated that, if U.S. pandemic math declines are not reversed, students now in kindergarten through grade 12 will earn from 2% to 9% less over their careers, depending on what state they live in, than their predecessors educated just before the start of the pandemic.

But it also means the country's productivity and competitiveness could slide.

“Math just underpins everything,” said Megan Schrauben, executive director of the Michigan Department of Labor and Economic Opportunity’s MiSTEM initiative, which tries to get more students into STEM. “It’s extremely important for the future prosperity of our students and communities, but also our entire state.”

In Massachusetts, employers are anticipating a shortage over the next five years of 11,000 workers in the life sciences alone.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/americas-poor-math-skills-raise-041135854.html

Then create more seats at the college level. There are very qualified students applying to engineering and CS programs who can't get in.

That is not true for college overall...there are plenty of schools that accept 90%+ of their students that offer engineering and CS. You are referencing only the selective schools.

I have read articles in the past about how in China and India...like 80%+ of their engineering and STEM graduates essentially graduated from the equivalent of Devry. These countries have hundreds of colleges that give kids the degree, but it is literally worthless.

There must be a typo in the article. It references that jobs requiring stronger Math will increase by 30,000 per year...in an economy that generates millions of jobs per year, that is next to nothing which seems off to me.

I think their post is mostly scare tactic nonsense. Every year the AMC and AIME tests keep getting harder and harder because the top kids are doing better. The US is always among the top countries in the math olympiad these days.

These bulk statistics being used to raise alarms include outsided numbers of recent immigrants who often aren't fluent in English and this has an impact on overall averages. This is to be expected and not indicative of a crisis.

Did youlook at the members on the US teams? Almost all of them are Asian students.

OK...but they are still Americans are they not (I actually don't know if they need to be US citizens or not)?

I think some of the USA team members attend top privates as international students and almost all of them are Asians as well.

And the American students on the team coming from public high schools are all from magnet schools such as TJ etc. not from regular high schools. Sad situation.

Why is that sad? Are the non-us teams filled with kids attending average high schools in their home countries?

They don't have to rely on international students to represent them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there are at least two different problems:

1) not enough people going into stem fields. There are at least three reasons for this: a) poor curricula in the k-12 grades makes kids not interested in these fields because they don’t see real world interesting use. Here in America kids have more choice in what they study than in many countries. B) insufficient capacity at higher education. They just don’t have the professors to increase capacity. C) relative compensation. These fields are really hard and the comp is okay but not great. You can make more money more easily in non-tech fields. See, eg, all the engineers that go back for a jD to do patent law. This relative wage disparity is not present in most countries.

2) Americans not in stem fields have poor math skills. I’m a lawyer and it’s shocking how often I have to explain simple algebra to other lawyers. People outside of math fields have little intuitive sense for numbers/math. I think common core is supposed to help with that by requiring kids to think about math in different ways instead of just focusing on the old solve this equation worksheets. I also think it’s a problem that most Americans take no math after 12th grade. It’s like a language or like a physical skill — if you don’t use it, you lose it. I don’t know a solution for that.

Funny...I remember working on a corporate transaction and in order to update the document the associate had to replace two, two digit numbers added together with a new set of numbers (think...previous was 57 +27, and now it is 59+28). The lawyer asked that I update the numbers because he didn't want to "screw it up".

I'm pretty sure the lawyer did that so you could have responsibility for the data. Anytime a lawyer says they don't want to be the one to "screw it up" just basically means they want to give someone else some responsibility for the accuracy of the data. It's not about the addition, it's about whether the numbers are right ones to use in the first place. Some lawyers will just automatically do this by default.