Replicating ATS success — what are exact differences

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get the book On Purpose: How Great Schools From Strong Character. An entire chapter on ATS.

ATS has a unique culture going back over 40 years. Every teacher and family has chosen to be there. They tell you that at every BTS night. Teachers send their kids there if they can, former ATS students come back and teach there. Former teachers come back and volunteer there.

Other APS schools could do some of what makes ATS unique and some similar things.

Some schools have a model project but ATS has the ABCs which means a focus on academics, behavior and character. Kids learn this from day one and can tell you what the ABCs are and what they mean. They teach and reinforce the 6 pillars of citizenship and all of these messages are everywhere in the school.

Like other APS schools, they have unique parties and traditions. People think it's some test prep school and no one has fun. We already have the schedule of school parties for the year and my kids can't wait to go to the fall festival.

Everyone focuses on the homework and tucked-in shirts. But the school builds teacher relationships and school community from day 1 to set every kid up for academic success.

So does every other elementary school in the system. This is NOT what sets ATS apart.
Every school in Arlington will say they have and set high expectations for all of its students. This is NOT what sets ATS apart.
Each school in APS has its "unique" traditions and parties. This is NOT what sets ATS apart.
Each school my children have attended, regardless of model project, discuss and emphasize character, community, and academic success. This is NOT what sets ATS apart.

I don't know what specific thing it is that does set it apart; my kids didn't attend and I don't have direct experience. But I don't buy the "self-selection" argument. From my conversations with ATS parents I've known over the years, I think the "secret sauce" ingredients include:

1. holding every single student to the SAME HIGH standard - not a standard or goal individualized to each child. They believe and expect every student can and will meet those standards.

2. expecting and extracting each student's best efforts and best work - with those highest expectations and standards as the goal

3. every student taking up a musical instrument (music and brain development....scientific credibility, folks; as well as expanded opportunity or exposure v. schools where it's optional)

4. and apparently instructional methods employed, per AEM and DCUM commentaries (not shifting with the winds, sticking with something when it works)

Here's one example of a significant difference from many years ago, OP:
The summer reading program/goals at our kids' elementary school was 10 books. Summer reading expectations at ATS was (oh shoot, I forget if it was 25 or 50! someone else here surely knows?) Regardless, it was MORE THAN DOUBLE our school's. And the "reward" for the students meeting the goal at our school was a cookie party. At ATS, it was a field trip to the zoo. While it may have been a challenge for some kids to read ten books, it was nothing for most of the kids who actually did it. They were not significantly challenging those kids.

Which brings us to another key difference between ATS and at least many of our other elementary schools:
5. demographics and resources

Yes, yes, I know ATS has many low-income students and a diverse student body. But it is not the low-income levels of our Title I schools and is not the same level of ELL as those schools in particular.

OP, I agree with others that taking this to your principal is a bad idea. This is something that people need to start pushing at Central office.

I am wholeheartedly opposed to merely establishing a second ATS. Every school does not need to be ATS. Every school just needs to be as academically engaging as ATS at least seems to be. The biggest issue I have with the schools my kids have attended is the watering down of expectations, the lower level of intensity (versus what people describe at ATS). Students meeting expectations is "good enough" and they are not necessarily pushed (in general by the school - perhaps by some individual teachers) to push themselves beyond that. Again, I think this is a bigger issue at the highest FRL/ELL schools because the school's primary need is to get every student on grade level and they have far more students who need far more focus to get them there in the same amount of time.

I'll add another one in the what distinguished ATS column:
6. Dress codes. People believe them to be sexist and racist. I don't think shirts have to be tucked in; but why is it sexist to require every student to have their butts and mid-sections covered? I'll be put in the sexist camp, but I don't think young girls need to have a lot of cleavage showing either. Not because it's their fault if some boy gets excited or assaults her; but because it is clearly unnecessary and inappropriate in the school setting. I'm not buying the "individual expression and proud of my body" crap. Teen girls are dressing the way they do specifically for the attention, whether from their friends or from the boys. And boys don't need to have their pants hanging off their asses either.

Regardless of all of that, a real dress code (uniforms in particular) contribute to better focus on the purpose at hand: school. They take away other distracting nonsense and instill a sense of discipline and school pride. Dress codes don't have to be overly restrictive and can still allow for individual expression.

Ok, so they raise expectations and standards at all elementary schools. What happens when kids don’t meet them? You know, the kids who don’t have parents in their corner pushing them in the right direction?

Again, it comes down to parental involvement. A school can ask kids to read 100 books over the summer, but unless parents are checking in on them to make sure they’re doing it…

It is actually possible for kids to be great and successful students without parent involvement. Sometimes even without parent support.
What happens to the kids that don't meet the standards is the same thing that happens to the kids who don't meet the standards now. But I would bet my life these schools would help more kids and more kids would excel even more. Meanwhile, you continue to do what you do for those who need more help. Just like you do now. ATS is able to do that for most of the 'needy' students they have because they don't have nearly the intensity of needs as the schools everyone else is trying to avoid. If they aren't getting what they need, families leave. I agree with another poster who noted that there are better supports at neighborhood schools for some kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get the book On Purpose: How Great Schools From Strong Character. An entire chapter on ATS.

ATS has a unique culture going back over 40 years. Every teacher and family has chosen to be there. They tell you that at every BTS night. Teachers send their kids there if they can, former ATS students come back and teach there. Former teachers come back and volunteer there.

Other APS schools could do some of what makes ATS unique and some similar things.

Some schools have a model project but ATS has the ABCs which means a focus on academics, behavior and character. Kids learn this from day one and can tell you what the ABCs are and what they mean. They teach and reinforce the 6 pillars of citizenship and all of these messages are everywhere in the school.

Like other APS schools, they have unique parties and traditions. People think it's some test prep school and no one has fun. We already have the schedule of school parties for the year and my kids can't wait to go to the fall festival.

Everyone focuses on the homework and tucked-in shirts. But the school builds teacher relationships and school community from day 1 to set every kid up for academic success.

So does every other elementary school in the system. This is NOT what sets ATS apart.
Every school in Arlington will say they have and set high expectations for all of its students. This is NOT what sets ATS apart.
Each school in APS has its "unique" traditions and parties. This is NOT what sets ATS apart.
Each school my children have attended, regardless of model project, discuss and emphasize character, community, and academic success. This is NOT what sets ATS apart.

I don't know what specific thing it is that does set it apart; my kids didn't attend and I don't have direct experience. But I don't buy the "self-selection" argument. From my conversations with ATS parents I've known over the years, I think the "secret sauce" ingredients include:

1. holding every single student to the SAME HIGH standard - not a standard or goal individualized to each child. They believe and expect every student can and will meet those standards.

2. expecting and extracting each student's best efforts and best work - with those highest expectations and standards as the goal

3. every student taking up a musical instrument (music and brain development....scientific credibility, folks; as well as expanded opportunity or exposure v. schools where it's optional)

4. and apparently instructional methods employed, per AEM and DCUM commentaries (not shifting with the winds, sticking with something when it works)

Here's one example of a significant difference from many years ago, OP:
The summer reading program/goals at our kids' elementary school was 10 books. Summer reading expectations at ATS was (oh shoot, I forget if it was 25 or 50! someone else here surely knows?) Regardless, it was MORE THAN DOUBLE our school's. And the "reward" for the students meeting the goal at our school was a cookie party. At ATS, it was a field trip to the zoo. While it may have been a challenge for some kids to read ten books, it was nothing for most of the kids who actually did it. They were not significantly challenging those kids.

Which brings us to another key difference between ATS and at least many of our other elementary schools:
5. demographics and resources

Yes, yes, I know ATS has many low-income students and a diverse student body. But it is not the low-income levels of our Title I schools and is not the same level of ELL as those schools in particular.

OP, I agree with others that taking this to your principal is a bad idea. This is something that people need to start pushing at Central office.

I am wholeheartedly opposed to merely establishing a second ATS. Every school does not need to be ATS. Every school just needs to be as academically engaging as ATS at least seems to be. The biggest issue I have with the schools my kids have attended is the watering down of expectations, the lower level of intensity (versus what people describe at ATS). Students meeting expectations is "good enough" and they are not necessarily pushed (in general by the school - perhaps by some individual teachers) to push themselves beyond that. Again, I think this is a bigger issue at the highest FRL/ELL schools because the school's primary need is to get every student on grade level and they have far more students who need far more focus to get them there in the same amount of time.

I'll add another one in the what distinguished ATS column:
6. Dress codes. People believe them to be sexist and racist. I don't think shirts have to be tucked in; but why is it sexist to require every student to have their butts and mid-sections covered? I'll be put in the sexist camp, but I don't think young girls need to have a lot of cleavage showing either. Not because it's their fault if some boy gets excited or assaults her; but because it is clearly unnecessary and inappropriate in the school setting. I'm not buying the "individual expression and proud of my body" crap. Teen girls are dressing the way they do specifically for the attention, whether from their friends or from the boys. And boys don't need to have their pants hanging off their asses either.

Regardless of all of that, a real dress code (uniforms in particular) contribute to better focus on the purpose at hand: school. They take away other distracting nonsense and instill a sense of discipline and school pride. Dress codes don't have to be overly restrictive and can still allow for individual expression.

Ok, so they raise expectations and standards at all elementary schools. What happens when kids don’t meet them? You know, the kids who don’t have parents in their corner pushing them in the right direction?

Again, it comes down to parental involvement. A school can ask kids to read 100 books over the summer, but unless parents are checking in on them to make sure they’re doing it…

It is actually possible for kids to be great and successful students without parent involvement. Sometimes even without parent support.
What happens to the kids that don't meet the standards is the same thing that happens to the kids who don't meet the standards now. But I would bet my life these schools would help more kids and more kids would excel even more. Meanwhile, you continue to do what you do for those who need more help. Just like you do now. ATS is able to do that for most of the 'needy' students they have because they don't have nearly the intensity of needs as the schools everyone else is trying to avoid. If they aren't getting what they need, families leave. I agree with another poster who noted that there are better supports at neighborhood schools for some kids.

I'm not sure it's possible for kids to be successful without parent involvement. Or at least it's nearly impossible. It's no coincidence there are 2 parents at Back To School night for the honors kids and no parents in some other classrooms. I saw that all the time when I was teaching. That said, APS dropping standards across the board like they're doing now is a huge mistale. People will look back at this educational trend someday and wonder what they were thinking.

[Anonymous]

It’s not impossible for kids to succeed without parental support, but it’s really, really, really hard.

And let’s be real. There’s lack of parental support, and then there’s parental influence in the wrong direction (bad attitude toward school). If the general attitude toward school is one of contempt, kids feel that.

No child is going to succeed if they show up thinking it’s okay to ignore/be combative to the teacher.

Want to turn things around? YES, raise standards and expectations. But look around at your communities and create a cultural shift. School is important. Decorum is important. Does your child like to back-talk adults just for the fun of it? No school can fix that problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get the book On Purpose: How Great Schools From Strong Character. An entire chapter on ATS.

ATS has a unique culture going back over 40 years. Every teacher and family has chosen to be there. They tell you that at every BTS night. Teachers send their kids there if they can, former ATS students come back and teach there. Former teachers come back and volunteer there.

Other APS schools could do some of what makes ATS unique and some similar things.

Some schools have a model project but ATS has the ABCs which means a focus on academics, behavior and character. Kids learn this from day one and can tell you what the ABCs are and what they mean. They teach and reinforce the 6 pillars of citizenship and all of these messages are everywhere in the school.

Like other APS schools, they have unique parties and traditions. People think it's some test prep school and no one has fun. We already have the schedule of school parties for the year and my kids can't wait to go to the fall festival.

Everyone focuses on the homework and tucked-in shirts. But the school builds teacher relationships and school community from day 1 to set every kid up for academic success.

So does every other elementary school in the system. This is NOT what sets ATS apart.
Every school in Arlington will say they have and set high expectations for all of its students. This is NOT what sets ATS apart.
Each school in APS has its "unique" traditions and parties. This is NOT what sets ATS apart.
Each school my children have attended, regardless of model project, discuss and emphasize character, community, and academic success. This is NOT what sets ATS apart.

I don't know what specific thing it is that does set it apart; my kids didn't attend and I don't have direct experience. But I don't buy the "self-selection" argument. From my conversations with ATS parents I've known over the years, I think the "secret sauce" ingredients include:

1. holding every single student to the SAME HIGH standard - not a standard or goal individualized to each child. They believe and expect every student can and will meet those standards.

2. expecting and extracting each student's best efforts and best work - with those highest expectations and standards as the goal

3. every student taking up a musical instrument (music and brain development....scientific credibility, folks; as well as expanded opportunity or exposure v. schools where it's optional)

4. and apparently instructional methods employed, per AEM and DCUM commentaries (not shifting with the winds, sticking with something when it works)

Here's one example of a significant difference from many years ago, OP:
The summer reading program/goals at our kids' elementary school was 10 books. Summer reading expectations at ATS was (oh shoot, I forget if it was 25 or 50! someone else here surely knows?) Regardless, it was MORE THAN DOUBLE our school's. And the "reward" for the students meeting the goal at our school was a cookie party. At ATS, it was a field trip to the zoo. While it may have been a challenge for some kids to read ten books, it was nothing for most of the kids who actually did it. They were not significantly challenging those kids.

Which brings us to another key difference between ATS and at least many of our other elementary schools:
5. demographics and resources

Yes, yes, I know ATS has many low-income students and a diverse student body. But it is not the low-income levels of our Title I schools and is not the same level of ELL as those schools in particular.

OP, I agree with others that taking this to your principal is a bad idea. This is something that people need to start pushing at Central office.

I am wholeheartedly opposed to merely establishing a second ATS. Every school does not need to be ATS. Every school just needs to be as academically engaging as ATS at least seems to be. The biggest issue I have with the schools my kids have attended is the watering down of expectations, the lower level of intensity (versus what people describe at ATS). Students meeting expectations is "good enough" and they are not necessarily pushed (in general by the school - perhaps by some individual teachers) to push themselves beyond that. Again, I think this is a bigger issue at the highest FRL/ELL schools because the school's primary need is to get every student on grade level and they have far more students who need far more focus to get them there in the same amount of time.

I'll add another one in the what distinguished ATS column:
6. Dress codes. People believe them to be sexist and racist. I don't think shirts have to be tucked in; but why is it sexist to require every student to have their butts and mid-sections covered? I'll be put in the sexist camp, but I don't think young girls need to have a lot of cleavage showing either. Not because it's their fault if some boy gets excited or assaults her; but because it is clearly unnecessary and inappropriate in the school setting. I'm not buying the "individual expression and proud of my body" crap. Teen girls are dressing the way they do specifically for the attention, whether from their friends or from the boys. And boys don't need to have their pants hanging off their asses either.

Regardless of all of that, a real dress code (uniforms in particular) contribute to better focus on the purpose at hand: school. They take away other distracting nonsense and instill a sense of discipline and school pride. Dress codes don't have to be overly restrictive and can still allow for individual expression.

Ok, so they raise expectations and standards at all elementary schools. What happens when kids don’t meet them? You know, the kids who don’t have parents in their corner pushing them in the right direction?

Again, it comes down to parental involvement. A school can ask kids to read 100 books over the summer, but unless parents are checking in on them to make sure they’re doing it…

It is actually possible for kids to be great and successful students without parent involvement. Sometimes even without parent support.
What happens to the kids that don't meet the standards is the same thing that happens to the kids who don't meet the standards now. But I would bet my life these schools would help more kids and more kids would excel even more. Meanwhile, you continue to do what you do for those who need more help. Just like you do now. ATS is able to do that for most of the 'needy' students they have because they don't have nearly the intensity of needs as the schools everyone else is trying to avoid. If they aren't getting what they need, families leave. I agree with another poster who noted that there are better supports at neighborhood schools for some kids.

I'm not sure it's possible for kids to be successful without parent involvement. Or at least it's nearly impossible. It's no coincidence there are 2 parents at Back To School night for the honors kids and no parents in some other classrooms. I saw that all the time when I was teaching. That said, APS dropping standards across the board like they're doing now is a huge mistale. People will look back at this educational trend someday and wonder what they were thinking.

Will they though? I feel like the more standards drop, the more problems we see in the school system, the more people think that there is nothing we can do about it. I feel like it’s just gonna keep getting worse and we are digging ourselves in a hole that we will never be able to get out of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our neighbors left ATS because they said it was not a good school for their kid who had special needs.

Neighborhood schools ( not all, but many) do a better job with that.

I call BS as a parent with kids with special needs who went to neighborhood schools and ATS. ATS does what it needs to do to get kids to learn. There have been a couple of parents at ATS who expect magic who I know left but the parents themselves were...outliers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our neighbors left ATS because they said it was not a good school for their kid who had special needs.

Neighborhood schools ( not all, but many) do a better job with that.

Right. Because ATS is a choice school.

Because it's a self selecting group, that's about 75% of the success right there.

More than 75% I think. Probably 90%. There are some things that can be replicated, but you aren’t going to be able to fix the main ingredient for ATS’s success in narrowing the achievement gap.

If self-selection is the achievement gap fixer, why don't the other choice programs have the same effect?

Here's a dirty little secret. Lazy parents have kids at ATS and we are so glad because we know the teachers and admin will fill in the gaps we have. It's fantastic. I"m not alone. I know who my people are. I'm so lucky too that my kid hands out with some kids with much better parents than I am. I'm just lazy, not a bad parent in other ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So I’m looking for a concrete plan to take to our principal.

1) direct instruction. Where is the inquiry instruction policy set by APS?

2) homework

3) tucked in shirts

4) high academic expectations? So I ask them why they currently have low expectations?

5) disciple expectations? See above?

Any more?

LOL that you want to bring tucked in shirts to other schools. I would revolt if you tried to force that on my kids. Where do you get off?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I’m looking for a concrete plan to take to our principal.

1) direct instruction. Where is the inquiry instruction policy set by APS?

2) homework

3) tucked in shirts

4) high academic expectations? So I ask them why they currently have low expectations?

5) disciple expectations? See above?

Any more?

LOL that you want to bring tucked in shirts to other schools. I would revolt if you tried to force that on my kids. Where do you get off?

OP, this is why you need to go private. Parents like this are in your school. You didn’t get into ATS. You would be so happy at private (like I am), where dress code and manners are a big deal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our neighbors left ATS because they said it was not a good school for their kid who had special needs.

Neighborhood schools ( not all, but many) do a better job with that.

Right. Because ATS is a choice school.

Because it's a self selecting group, that's about 75% of the success right there.

More than 75% I think. Probably 90%. There are some things that can be replicated, but you aren’t going to be able to fix the main ingredient for ATS’s success in narrowing the achievement gap.

If self-selection is the achievement gap fixer, why don't the other choice programs have the same effect?

Here's a dirty little secret. Lazy parents have kids at ATS and we are so glad because we know the teachers and admin will fill in the gaps we have. It's fantastic. I"m not alone. I know who my people are. I'm so lucky too that my kid hands out with some kids with much better parents than I am. I'm just lazy, not a bad parent in other ways.

Lazy how? As in you never read to your kids?

I mean, you weren’t lazy enough to not do the lottery lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One big difference is parents who are involved and motivated enough to seek a slot at ATS. Your principal can’t do anything about that one.

Sure but that can’t be only factor?

It’s the largest contributing factor. Like 90% of the pie.

OK. Clearly the ATS parents want the credit for their kids' and their school's success. So, yes, absolutely, it is entirely due to the parents who put in for the lottery and accept the slots. Entirely. Not 90%. Because without these specific fabulous parents being involved, the administration might implement instructional changes that they make the other neighborhood schools do. So, KUDOS to you parents!!!

That’s not how I read those claims.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I’m looking for a concrete plan to take to our principal.

1) direct instruction. Where is the inquiry instruction policy set by APS?

2) homework

3) tucked in shirts

4) high academic expectations? So I ask them why they currently have low expectations?

5) disciple expectations? See above?

Any more?

LOL that you want to bring tucked in shirts to other schools. I would revolt if you tried to force that on my kids. Where do you get off?

OP, this is why you need to go private. Parents like this are in your school. You didn’t get into ATS. You would be so happy at private (like I am), where dress code and manners are a big deal

I'm the parent who doesn't want tucked in shirts in my kids' public elementary school. For the record, I'm a very involved parent both with my kids and in their school. My kids are well behaved, successful students and we have high expectations. They have excellent manner.

I think it's ridiculous to force kids to tuck in their shirts as if that does something. What does that have to do with manners or behavior? Nothing.

I don't think I'm in the minority here, I think you types that want this are. And yes, go private or try again for ATS. Don't push this nonsense on the rest of us.

I bet the principal silently laughs at you if you ask them to enforce shirts tucked in. I know I would.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One big difference is parents who are involved and motivated enough to seek a slot at ATS. Your principal can’t do anything about that one.

Sure but that can’t be only factor?

It’s the largest contributing factor. Like 90% of the pie.

OK. Clearly the ATS parents want the credit for their kids' and their school's success. So, yes, absolutely, it is entirely due to the parents who put in for the lottery and accept the slots. Entirely. Not 90%. Because without these specific fabulous parents being involved, the administration might implement instructional changes that they make the other neighborhood schools do. So, KUDOS to you parents!!!

Are you reading the same thread? ATS parents are saying other schools could do more of what ATS is doing. Parental involvement matters but parents are choosing ATS because what they are doing works. ATS deserves the credit and I don't blame parents for lining up to go to ATS. PP is right that parents put in what the school expects of them. It harder than ever in APS to know how your kid is doing. Schoolwork rarely sent home, homework packets depend on the school, grading is usually a cut and paste affair and you're not sure if the comments about "johnny" apply to your "Jenny". At least APS is finally figuring out how to teach kids to read but ATS was doing that for decades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get the book On Purpose: How Great Schools From Strong Character. An entire chapter on ATS.

ATS has a unique culture going back over 40 years. Every teacher and family has chosen to be there. They tell you that at every BTS night. Teachers send their kids there if they can, former ATS students come back and teach there. Former teachers come back and volunteer there.

Other APS schools could do some of what makes ATS unique and some similar things.

Some schools have a model project but ATS has the ABCs which means a focus on academics, behavior and character. Kids learn this from day one and can tell you what the ABCs are and what they mean. They teach and reinforce the 6 pillars of citizenship and all of these messages are everywhere in the school.

Like other APS schools, they have unique parties and traditions. People think it's some test prep school and no one has fun. We already have the schedule of school parties for the year and my kids can't wait to go to the fall festival.

Everyone focuses on the homework and tucked-in shirts. But the school builds teacher relationships and school community from day 1 to set every kid up for academic success.

So does every other elementary school in the system. This is NOT what sets ATS apart.
Every school in Arlington will say they have and set high expectations for all of its students. This is NOT what sets ATS apart.
Each school in APS has its "unique" traditions and parties. This is NOT what sets ATS apart.
Each school my children have attended, regardless of model project, discuss and emphasize character, community, and academic success. This is NOT what sets ATS apart.

I don't know what specific thing it is that does set it apart; my kids didn't attend and I don't have direct experience. But I don't buy the "self-selection" argument. From my conversations with ATS parents I've known over the years, I think the "secret sauce" ingredients include:

1. holding every single student to the SAME HIGH standard - not a standard or goal individualized to each child. They believe and expect every student can and will meet those standards.

2. expecting and extracting each student's best efforts and best work - with those highest expectations and standards as the goal

3. every student taking up a musical instrument (music and brain development....scientific credibility, folks; as well as expanded opportunity or exposure v. schools where it's optional)

4. and apparently instructional methods employed, per AEM and DCUM commentaries (not shifting with the winds, sticking with something when it works)

Here's one example of a significant difference from many years ago, OP:
The summer reading program/goals at our kids' elementary school was 10 books. Summer reading expectations at ATS was (oh shoot, I forget if it was 25 or 50! someone else here surely knows?) Regardless, it was MORE THAN DOUBLE our school's. And the "reward" for the students meeting the goal at our school was a cookie party. At ATS, it was a field trip to the zoo. While it may have been a challenge for some kids to read ten books, it was nothing for most of the kids who actually did it. They were not significantly challenging those kids.

Which brings us to another key difference between ATS and at least many of our other elementary schools:
5. demographics and resources

Yes, yes, I know ATS has many low-income students and a diverse student body. But it is not the low-income levels of our Title I schools and is not the same level of ELL as those schools in particular.

OP, I agree with others that taking this to your principal is a bad idea. This is something that people need to start pushing at Central office.

I am wholeheartedly opposed to merely establishing a second ATS. Every school does not need to be ATS. Every school just needs to be as academically engaging as ATS at least seems to be. The biggest issue I have with the schools my kids have attended is the watering down of expectations, the lower level of intensity (versus what people describe at ATS). Students meeting expectations is "good enough" and they are not necessarily pushed (in general by the school - perhaps by some individual teachers) to push themselves beyond that. Again, I think this is a bigger issue at the highest FRL/ELL schools because the school's primary need is to get every student on grade level and they have far more students who need far more focus to get them there in the same amount of time.

I'll add another one in the what distinguished ATS column:
6. Dress codes. People believe them to be sexist and racist. I don't think shirts have to be tucked in; but why is it sexist to require every student to have their butts and mid-sections covered? I'll be put in the sexist camp, but I don't think young girls need to have a lot of cleavage showing either. Not because it's their fault if some boy gets excited or assaults her; but because it is clearly unnecessary and inappropriate in the school setting. I'm not buying the "individual expression and proud of my body" crap. Teen girls are dressing the way they do specifically for the attention, whether from their friends or from the boys. And boys don't need to have their pants hanging off their asses either.

Regardless of all of that, a real dress code (uniforms in particular) contribute to better focus on the purpose at hand: school. They take away other distracting nonsense and instill a sense of discipline and school pride. Dress codes don't have to be overly restrictive and can still allow for individual expression.

Ok, so they raise expectations and standards at all elementary schools. What happens when kids don’t meet them? You know, the kids who don’t have parents in their corner pushing them in the right direction?

Again, it comes down to parental involvement. A school can ask kids to read 100 books over the summer, but unless parents are checking in on them to make sure they’re doing it…

It's hilarious that everyone keeps acting like only ATS is the only school in APS that has involved parents. Immersion parent here who wished we had done ATS. We have plenty of involved parents of all income levels. Look at any of the assessments on the student dashboard, why do we have a worse achievement gap including for our EL kids? https://analytics.apsva.us/public/progress/aps_mi.html
https://analytics.apsva.us/public/progress/aps_dibels.html

Immersion is supposed to be better for EL kids, so why isn't it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of these differences only work with home support.

Summer reading...home support.

The instrument...home support.

The dress code...home support.

The homework...home support. Let's be real any homework before about 3rd or 4th grade is a group project with you and your kid.

People discounting what a difference it makes to have a student body filled 100 percent with parents who were motivated and interested enough to get the kids there are just naive.

Sure. A lot but not all of our elementary schools have some of these things. Summer reading, homework, band take some level of parent buy in. I also think more but not all parents would ask their kids do these things if it was expected of them.

And why not weekly progress reports sent home to parents? That doesn’t require parent participation but more parents would know how their kid was doing. It opens the door to regular communication.

Teachers are not going to have time for this because they deal with a higher load of discipline and SN kids than ATS (since SN kids who struggle leave ATS for a school without homework)

There are a TON of SN kids at ATS, it was in this thread, too, around 12%. Do you think ATS has less issues than other lottery schools? Less behavioral struggles than neighborhood schools like, say, Jamestown, Tuckahoe, or Nottingham? I don't think so. Probably has more. There are a lot of ELL students who are new to the US or the parents are brand new to the US, there is a large SN population, and there is a very large poor population. Jamestown, Tuckahoe, Nottingham, etc. so not deal with these challenges, especially not in large numbers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get the book On Purpose: How Great Schools From Strong Character. An entire chapter on ATS.

ATS has a unique culture going back over 40 years. Every teacher and family has chosen to be there. They tell you that at every BTS night. Teachers send their kids there if they can, former ATS students come back and teach there. Former teachers come back and volunteer there.

Other APS schools could do some of what makes ATS unique and some similar things.

Some schools have a model project but ATS has the ABCs which means a focus on academics, behavior and character. Kids learn this from day one and can tell you what the ABCs are and what they mean. They teach and reinforce the 6 pillars of citizenship and all of these messages are everywhere in the school.

Like other APS schools, they have unique parties and traditions. People think it's some test prep school and no one has fun. We already have the schedule of school parties for the year and my kids can't wait to go to the fall festival.

Everyone focuses on the homework and tucked-in shirts. But the school builds teacher relationships and school community from day 1 to set every kid up for academic success.

So does every other elementary school in the system. This is NOT what sets ATS apart.
Every school in Arlington will say they have and set high expectations for all of its students. This is NOT what sets ATS apart.
Each school in APS has its "unique" traditions and parties. This is NOT what sets ATS apart.
Each school my children have attended, regardless of model project, discuss and emphasize character, community, and academic success. This is NOT what sets ATS apart.

I don't know what specific thing it is that does set it apart; my kids didn't attend and I don't have direct experience. But I don't buy the "self-selection" argument. From my conversations with ATS parents I've known over the years, I think the "secret sauce" ingredients include:

1. holding every single student to the SAME HIGH standard - not a standard or goal individualized to each child. They believe and expect every student can and will meet those standards.

2. expecting and extracting each student's best efforts and best work - with those highest expectations and standards as the goal

3. every student taking up a musical instrument (music and brain development....scientific credibility, folks; as well as expanded opportunity or exposure v. schools where it's optional)

4. and apparently instructional methods employed, per AEM and DCUM commentaries (not shifting with the winds, sticking with something when it works)

Here's one example of a significant difference from many years ago, OP:
The summer reading program/goals at our kids' elementary school was 10 books. Summer reading expectations at ATS was (oh shoot, I forget if it was 25 or 50! someone else here surely knows?) Regardless, it was MORE THAN DOUBLE our school's. And the "reward" for the students meeting the goal at our school was a cookie party. At ATS, it was a field trip to the zoo. While it may have been a challenge for some kids to read ten books, it was nothing for most of the kids who actually did it. They were not significantly challenging those kids.

Which brings us to another key difference between ATS and at least many of our other elementary schools:
5. demographics and resources

Yes, yes, I know ATS has many low-income students and a diverse student body. But it is not the low-income levels of our Title I schools and is not the same level of ELL as those schools in particular.

OP, I agree with others that taking this to your principal is a bad idea. This is something that people need to start pushing at Central office.

I am wholeheartedly opposed to merely establishing a second ATS. Every school does not need to be ATS. Every school just needs to be as academically engaging as ATS at least seems to be. The biggest issue I have with the schools my kids have attended is the watering down of expectations, the lower level of intensity (versus what people describe at ATS). Students meeting expectations is "good enough" and they are not necessarily pushed (in general by the school - perhaps by some individual teachers) to push themselves beyond that. Again, I think this is a bigger issue at the highest FRL/ELL schools because the school's primary need is to get every student on grade level and they have far more students who need far more focus to get them there in the same amount of time.

I'll add another one in the what distinguished ATS column:
6. Dress codes. People believe them to be sexist and racist. I don't think shirts have to be tucked in; but why is it sexist to require every student to have their butts and mid-sections covered? I'll be put in the sexist camp, but I don't think young girls need to have a lot of cleavage showing either. Not because it's their fault if some boy gets excited or assaults her; but because it is clearly unnecessary and inappropriate in the school setting. I'm not buying the "individual expression and proud of my body" crap. Teen girls are dressing the way they do specifically for the attention, whether from their friends or from the boys. And boys don't need to have their pants hanging off their asses either.

Regardless of all of that, a real dress code (uniforms in particular) contribute to better focus on the purpose at hand: school. They take away other distracting nonsense and instill a sense of discipline and school pride. Dress codes don't have to be overly restrictive and can still allow for individual expression.

Ok, so they raise expectations and standards at all elementary schools. What happens when kids don’t meet them? You know, the kids who don’t have parents in their corner pushing them in the right direction?

Again, it comes down to parental involvement. A school can ask kids to read 100 books over the summer, but unless parents are checking in on them to make sure they’re doing it…

It's hilarious that everyone keeps acting like only ATS is the only school in APS that has involved parents. Immersion parent here who wished we had done ATS. We have plenty of involved parents of all income levels. Look at any of the assessments on the student dashboard, why do we have a worse achievement gap including for our EL kids? https://analytics.apsva.us/public/progress/aps_mi.html
https://analytics.apsva.us/public/progress/aps_dibels.html

Immersion is supposed to be better for EL kids, so why isn't it?

Yes, it isn't. Not sure why, whether it's the program or its execution. But APS needs to seriously look at what is successful as far as achievement gaps, and what isn't. And channel money into resources and methods that work, not the ones they only wished to work.