Arguments in favor of giving kids passing grades even when they don't know the material?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the arguments against it is that kids will be bullied & socially excluded by their classmates if they repeat a grade.

I just had dinner with a friend who had to repeat 2nd grade. He turned out okay.

We have a family member who had to repeat 11th grade. He is a 1%er now.

I fail to see where holding students to standards negatively affects them.

I know 1 person who was held back in 5th grade, and he's in jail now. I know another, and he died of an overdose about 20 years. What's your point? Anecdotal evidence is not good evidence for a reason. Sounds like maybe you needed to repeat a grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No one is making these kids come to school. Read the post above from the teacher in Baltimore City. Hold these kids back and they still won’t come to school. Some kids miss two or three days a week without blinking an eye. No one at home prioritizes them attending school. So if you hold them back they still won’t learn because they don’t come to school.

Unless we could actually hold parents/families accountable for their children attending school (which I’m actually all for as a teacher), holding kids back won’t solve any problems.

Baltimore teacher again. When you read about Baltimore students in the news who are in 9th grade but read on a third grade level, the vast majority of them have had serious chronic absentee issues since pre-k or kindergarten. I have a meeting for a student this afternoon who has missed 60+ days of kindergarten and has been late (hours late) over 70 times. Parent claims her child doesn’t like waking up early. Most of my parent teacher conferences end up as parenting sessions. Parents don’t want to make their kids do anything (go to bed, go to school, do homework, brush their teeth, etc) because it creates tension and it’s just easier to let them do what they want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is making these kids come to school. Read the post above from the teacher in Baltimore City. Hold these kids back and they still won’t come to school. Some kids miss two or three days a week without blinking an eye. No one at home prioritizes them attending school. So if you hold them back they still won’t learn because they don’t come to school.

Unless we could actually hold parents/families accountable for their children attending school (which I’m actually all for as a teacher), holding kids back won’t solve any problems.

Baltimore teacher again. When you read about Baltimore students in the news who are in 9th grade but read on a third grade level, the vast majority of them have had serious chronic absentee issues since pre-k or kindergarten. I have a meeting for a student this afternoon who has missed 60+ days of kindergarten and has been late (hours late) over 70 times. Parent claims her child doesn’t like waking up early. Most of my parent teacher conferences end up as parenting sessions. Parents don’t want to make their kids do anything (go to bed, go to school, do homework, brush their teeth, etc) because it creates tension and it’s just easier to let them do what they want.

Why the heck isn’t CPS involved in those cases? How can the kids remain with the parent? I don’t get it. Meanwhile us normal people need to fear taking our kids to the damn ER if siblings were roughhousing and someone breaks a bone because we’ve all heard horror stories about CPS doing investigations to rule out neglect in cases where kids get hurt as part of normal childhood. It’s so frustrating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is making these kids come to school. Read the post above from the teacher in Baltimore City. Hold these kids back and they still won’t come to school. Some kids miss two or three days a week without blinking an eye. No one at home prioritizes them attending school. So if you hold them back they still won’t learn because they don’t come to school.

Unless we could actually hold parents/families accountable for their children attending school (which I’m actually all for as a teacher), holding kids back won’t solve any problems.

Baltimore teacher again. When you read about Baltimore students in the news who are in 9th grade but read on a third grade level, the vast majority of them have had serious chronic absentee issues since pre-k or kindergarten. I have a meeting for a student this afternoon who has missed 60+ days of kindergarten and has been late (hours late) over 70 times. Parent claims her child doesn’t like waking up early. Most of my parent teacher conferences end up as parenting sessions. Parents don’t want to make their kids do anything (go to bed, go to school, do homework, brush their teeth, etc) because it creates tension and it’s just easier to let them do what they want.

I’m going to guess that the average age of a kindergarten parent in Baltimore City Public Schools is about 23 years old, and that nearly all those parents went to the same schools their kids go to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is making these kids come to school. Read the post above from the teacher in Baltimore City. Hold these kids back and they still won’t come to school. Some kids miss two or three days a week without blinking an eye. No one at home prioritizes them attending school. So if you hold them back they still won’t learn because they don’t come to school.

Unless we could actually hold parents/families accountable for their children attending school (which I’m actually all for as a teacher), holding kids back won’t solve any problems.

Baltimore teacher again. When you read about Baltimore students in the news who are in 9th grade but read on a third grade level, the vast majority of them have had serious chronic absentee issues since pre-k or kindergarten. I have a meeting for a student this afternoon who has missed 60+ days of kindergarten and has been late (hours late) over 70 times. Parent claims her child doesn’t like waking up early. Most of my parent teacher conferences end up as parenting sessions. Parents don’t want to make their kids do anything (go to bed, go to school, do homework, brush their teeth, etc) because it creates tension and it’s just easier to let them do what they want.

Why the heck isn’t CPS involved in those cases? How can the kids remain with the parent? I don’t get it. Meanwhile us normal people need to fear taking our kids to the damn ER if siblings were roughhousing and someone breaks a bone because we’ve all heard horror stories about CPS doing investigations to rule out neglect in cases where kids get hurt as part of normal childhood. It’s so frustrating.

CPS has its hands full dealing with families who abuse and truly neglect their children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is making these kids come to school. Read the post above from the teacher in Baltimore City. Hold these kids back and they still won’t come to school. Some kids miss two or three days a week without blinking an eye. No one at home prioritizes them attending school. So if you hold them back they still won’t learn because they don’t come to school.

Unless we could actually hold parents/families accountable for their children attending school (which I’m actually all for as a teacher), holding kids back won’t solve any problems.

Baltimore teacher again. When you read about Baltimore students in the news who are in 9th grade but read on a third grade level, the vast majority of them have had serious chronic absentee issues since pre-k or kindergarten. I have a meeting for a student this afternoon who has missed 60+ days of kindergarten and has been late (hours late) over 70 times. Parent claims her child doesn’t like waking up early. Most of my parent teacher conferences end up as parenting sessions. Parents don’t want to make their kids do anything (go to bed, go to school, do homework, brush their teeth, etc) because it creates tension and it’s just easier to let them do what they want.

Why the heck isn’t CPS involved in those cases? How can the kids remain with the parent? I don’t get it. Meanwhile us normal people need to fear taking our kids to the damn ER if siblings were roughhousing and someone breaks a bone because we’ve all heard horror stories about CPS doing investigations to rule out neglect in cases where kids get hurt as part of normal childhood. It’s so frustrating.

CPS has its hands full dealing with families who abuse and truly neglect their children.

Not in the rest of the country they don’t. Perhaps we should move all the CPS workers up to Baltimore. Seems like they’re actually needed there.

[Anonymous]

Baltimore teacher again. No, CPS doesn’t deal with truancy. It takes many, many years before a truancy case ever goes to court and most of the time, nothing happens anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is making these kids come to school. Read the post above from the teacher in Baltimore City. Hold these kids back and they still won’t come to school. Some kids miss two or three days a week without blinking an eye. No one at home prioritizes them attending school. So if you hold them back they still won’t learn because they don’t come to school.

Unless we could actually hold parents/families accountable for their children attending school (which I’m actually all for as a teacher), holding kids back won’t solve any problems.

Baltimore teacher again. When you read about Baltimore students in the news who are in 9th grade but read on a third grade level, the vast majority of them have had serious chronic absentee issues since pre-k or kindergarten. I have a meeting for a student this afternoon who has missed 60+ days of kindergarten and has been late (hours late) over 70 times. Parent claims her child doesn’t like waking up early. Most of my parent teacher conferences end up as parenting sessions. Parents don’t want to make their kids do anything (go to bed, go to school, do homework, brush their teeth, etc) because it creates tension and it’s just easier to let them do what they want.

Did covid make things worse or was it the same pre-covid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is making these kids come to school. Read the post above from the teacher in Baltimore City. Hold these kids back and they still won’t come to school. Some kids miss two or three days a week without blinking an eye. No one at home prioritizes them attending school. So if you hold them back they still won’t learn because they don’t come to school.

Unless we could actually hold parents/families accountable for their children attending school (which I’m actually all for as a teacher), holding kids back won’t solve any problems.

Baltimore teacher again. When you read about Baltimore students in the news who are in 9th grade but read on a third grade level, the vast majority of them have had serious chronic absentee issues since pre-k or kindergarten. I have a meeting for a student this afternoon who has missed 60+ days of kindergarten and has been late (hours late) over 70 times. Parent claims her child doesn’t like waking up early. Most of my parent teacher conferences end up as parenting sessions. Parents don’t want to make their kids do anything (go to bed, go to school, do homework, brush their teeth, etc) because it creates tension and it’s just easier to let them do what they want.

Did covid make things worse or was it the same pre-covid?

It made it worse but it was already bad. The least number of days missed in this year’s class is 12. Pre-Covid that was maybe 8 days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is not coming to school a problem in elementary school as well or is it more of a middle and high school issue?

PP and this is an issue at all grade levels. Don’t forget an adult needs to assist a young elementary school kid with getting to school. If the adult isn’t home or awake or doesn’t care then the kid doesn’t go to school.

In upper elementary I guess a kid could get themselves to school but by that point they are woefully behind and it’s more fun to stay home. Or they have to watch a younger sibling. This doesn’t even touch on the kids with learning disabilities and the uphill battle for this kids. It’s all around sad but stems from home life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is not coming to school a problem in elementary school as well or is it more of a middle and high school issue?

PP and this is an issue at all grade levels. Don’t forget an adult needs to assist a young elementary school kid with getting to school. If the adult isn’t home or awake or doesn’t care then the kid doesn’t go to school.

In upper elementary I guess a kid could get themselves to school but by that point they are woefully behind and it’s more fun to stay home. Or they have to watch a younger sibling. This doesn’t even touch on the kids with learning disabilities and the uphill battle for this kids. It’s all around sad but stems from home life.

Thanks. I wondered if in elementary, parents would have an incentive to take the kids to school while they were working. But it sounds like that's not the case. Maybe parents just leave them home instead, maybe they work hours outside of the school day and sleep-in during the morning, or maybe they are home themselves if on unemployment or disability. Very sad for these kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nobody wants to pay the taxes it costs to retain kids.

Or deal with 17 year olds in the same classes as 12 year olds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is not coming to school a problem in elementary school as well or is it more of a middle and high school issue?

PP and this is an issue at all grade levels. Don’t forget an adult needs to assist a young elementary school kid with getting to school. If the adult isn’t home or awake or doesn’t care then the kid doesn’t go to school.

In upper elementary I guess a kid could get themselves to school but by that point they are woefully behind and it’s more fun to stay home. Or they have to watch a younger sibling. This doesn’t even touch on the kids with learning disabilities and the uphill battle for this kids. It’s all around sad but stems from home life.

Thanks. I wondered if in elementary, parents would have an incentive to take the kids to school while they were working. But it sounds like that's not the case. Maybe parents just leave them home instead, maybe they work hours outside of the school day and sleep-in during the morning, or maybe they are home themselves if on unemployment or disability. Very sad for these kids.

I can see why that makes sense but honestly many of the parents don’t work. Or the kid stays home with another family member. We’re often talking about a parent in their early to mid twenties who had a kid/s young.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is not coming to school a problem in elementary school as well or is it more of a middle and high school issue?

PP and this is an issue at all grade levels. Don’t forget an adult needs to assist a young elementary school kid with getting to school. If the adult isn’t home or awake or doesn’t care then the kid doesn’t go to school.

In upper elementary I guess a kid could get themselves to school but by that point they are woefully behind and it’s more fun to stay home. Or they have to watch a younger sibling. This doesn’t even touch on the kids with learning disabilities and the uphill battle for this kids. It’s all around sad but stems from home life.

Thanks. I wondered if in elementary, parents would have an incentive to take the kids to school while they were working. But it sounds like that's not the case. Maybe parents just leave them home instead, maybe they work hours outside of the school day and sleep-in during the morning, or maybe they are home themselves if on unemployment or disability. Very sad for these kids.

I can see why that makes sense but honestly many of the parents don’t work. Or the kid stays home with another family member. We’re often talking about a parent in their early to mid twenties who had a kid/s young.

Understood. Thanks to the teachers who are trying to help these kids despite the huge challenges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Handing everyone a HS diploma helps the higher education economy in that the HS diploma is no longer a useful gauge for a candidate's mental skillsets. One now has to pay for and rely on the college degree to assess basic competency.

Yes, and this makes college more expensive for everyone.

The best thing we could do to lower college costs in this country is to go back to high standards for high school graduation. Needing to get a college degree to work at Starbucks to prove that you’re literate and can count change is bad for all of us.

Yup. I agree with this 100%.

We need to strike a better balance than what we're currently doing. Passing failing kids along at the rate that we are is just diluting the value of a high school education and that's make the high school diploma worthless, which forces more people to higher ed. If a good public high school diploma was worth the paper it was printed on, we would all be better off as a society.