CES Lottery

[Anonymous]

Question for parents who have kids who didn’t make the lottery but are bright and above grade level in reading. Scores above 89th percentile. Are you worried about not getting elc next year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
IEP 504 FARMS and ESOL are all positive factors for consideration when applying to these special programs

Please provide a source for this. I really think you are incorrect.

If you have the IEP 504 FARMS and ESOL factor, you are not "Locally Normed". With 85%, you are in the lottery.
If you don't have the above factor, depends, but in a low moderate FARM school, 96% will NOT be in the lottery.
They will adjust points to make it locally normed, and you are not in the lottery anymore. 96 - 12 = 84% percentile

I was on the MCPS website a while ago, where they listed admission factors to the application special programs. You'll have to find it yourself since I didn't save the link. It's also been discussed on this board numerous times. Again you'll need to search yourself to find those threads but it really isn't that hard.

PP is correct. Look under FAQs
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jmQmo4UZDowNzddfXA56UtyB0KJPSfwiGi9oqqVT1OI/mobilebasic

I am very familiar with the FAQs. Nowhere in it does it say you are not “locally normed” if you have a 504 or receive FARMS, etc. You assumed/inferred that. I understand how local norming works. I promise you the MCCPTA gifted Ed committee has tried very very hard to get AEI to clarify how these student services are incorporated into the process and has asked if there is a separate lottery for those students or if they have different thresholds. AEI has not answered this question.

I don’t think you are reading the criteria very thoroughly. It says SpEd, ELD, 504, etc, are some of the measures that are used to evaluate students for the program. While it doesn’t say these students will not be locally normed, these are factors that are taken into account.

I assure you I’m reading it thoroughly. As I said, I am aware those are some of the criteria they are using in the process. I just take issue with the assumption a PP is making that being a student with one of those identifications confers some type of advantage or thumb on the scale in the process. It does not. Or perhaps it does. But it is not explained. If you look down to number 10 on the FAQ, it essentially says even if your kid is identified and wins the lottery, if you are a member if one of these special populations, your team can recommend that you not go forward with the CES placement. I truly think they norm everybody’s scores and then for students who have IEPs or ESOL or whatever else, they take a second look at their data and supports/accommodations needed to see if they can provide it within the CES program. If they can, kid gets the offer. If not, kid does not. Vast majority of kids with IEPs, ESOL, etc are not in the top 15 percent to begin with. Of course some are, but it’s not thousands of kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pine Crest--kid was in the lottery but not selected, will get ELC next year. Honestly we (including kid) had been going back and forth about wanting a spot. Kid wanted more in-depth, interesting work but was not excited about the longer bus ride and super late dismissal, which would've messed with their long-held after school activity. Staying at the same school with pull-outs for ELC and compacted math seems to be the best option, to be honest.

We can relate. DS got ELC/waitlisted also, and though a little disappointed, we’re also relieved because he has a large group of good friends and our current schedule works for us given all our after school activities.

I had an older child go through the CES a while ago, and my younger one was also waitlisted because of the lottery in 2021. I know it may not feel like it, but it isn't the end of the world. The CES is a great program, but there's a lot you can do to ensure your child gets similar exposure regardless of the school's ELC program. I liked the CES mainly because of the cohort, but the academics aren't unique.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
IEP 504 FARMS and ESOL are all positive factors for consideration when applying to these special programs

Please provide a source for this. I really think you are incorrect.

If you have the IEP 504 FARMS and ESOL factor, you are not "Locally Normed". With 85%, you are in the lottery.
If you don't have the above factor, depends, but in a low moderate FARM school, 96% will NOT be in the lottery.
They will adjust points to make it locally normed, and you are not in the lottery anymore. 96 - 12 = 84% percentile

I was on the MCPS website a while ago, where they listed admission factors to the application special programs. You'll have to find it yourself since I didn't save the link. It's also been discussed on this board numerous times. Again you'll need to search yourself to find those threads but it really isn't that hard.

PP is correct. Look under FAQs
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jmQmo4UZDowNzddfXA56UtyB0KJPSfwiGi9oqqVT1OI/mobilebasic

I am very familiar with the FAQs. Nowhere in it does it say you are not “locally normed” if you have a 504 or receive FARMS, etc. You assumed/inferred that. I understand how local norming works. I promise you the MCCPTA gifted Ed committee has tried very very hard to get AEI to clarify how these student services are incorporated into the process and has asked if there is a separate lottery for those students or if they have different thresholds. AEI has not answered this question.

I don’t think you are reading the criteria very thoroughly. It says SpEd, ELD, 504, etc, are some of the measures that are used to evaluate students for the program. While it doesn’t say these students will not be locally normed, these are factors that are taken into account.

I assure you I’m reading it thoroughly. As I said, I am aware those are some of the criteria they are using in the process. I just take issue with the assumption a PP is making that being a student with one of those identifications confers some type of advantage or thumb on the scale in the process. It does not. Or perhaps it does. But it is not explained. If you look down to number 10 on the FAQ, it essentially says even if your kid is identified and wins the lottery, if you are a member if one of these special populations, your team can recommend that you not go forward with the CES placement. I truly think they norm everybody’s scores and then for students who have IEPs or ESOL or whatever else, they take a second look at their data and supports/accommodations needed to see if they can provide it within the CES program. If they can, kid gets the offer. If not, kid does not. Vast majority of kids with IEPs, ESOL, etc are not in the top 15 percent to begin with. Of course some are, but it’s not thousands of kids.

Their site makes it clear it does but the earlier poster here seemed to think it counted against a kid which is not only false but illegal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Question for parents who have kids who didn’t make the lottery but are bright and above grade level in reading. Scores above 89th percentile. Are you worried about not getting elc next year?

A little bit for our situation. My DC will be attending a new school that is opening for its first year in the fall. I'm not sure if the principal is only focused on getting the school up and running.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Question for parents who have kids who didn’t make the lottery but are bright and above grade level in reading. Scores above 89th percentile. Are you worried about not getting elc next year?

To all the parents of kids who didn't make the lottery, if central office didn't say your student will receive literacy enrichment in that letter, it's still possible to receive ELC if there's space available and the school thinks your child would be an appropriate fit. You should contact the person in charge of the GT program at your school though because this process will probably not be automatic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCPS should stop wasting money on surveys and contractors and start focusing on properly educating all the kids who meet the parameters for CES/enrichment/magnet schools. Or perhaps MCPS needs to also ask why so many kids qualify for these enhancement programs? Maybe educational standards need to go up. These lotteries are ridiculous.

Agreed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
IEP 504 FARMS and ESOL are all positive factors for consideration when applying to these special programs

Please provide a source for this. I really think you are incorrect.

If you have the IEP 504 FARMS and ESOL factor, you are not "Locally Normed". With 85%, you are in the lottery.
If you don't have the above factor, depends, but in a low moderate FARM school, 96% will NOT be in the lottery.
They will adjust points to make it locally normed, and you are not in the lottery anymore. 96 - 12 = 84% percentile

I was on the MCPS website a while ago, where they listed admission factors to the application special programs. You'll have to find it yourself since I didn't save the link. It's also been discussed on this board numerous times. Again you'll need to search yourself to find those threads but it really isn't that hard.

PP is correct. Look under FAQs
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jmQmo4UZDowNzddfXA56UtyB0KJPSfwiGi9oqqVT1OI/mobilebasic

I am very familiar with the FAQs. Nowhere in it does it say you are not “locally normed” if you have a 504 or receive FARMS, etc. You assumed/inferred that. I understand how local norming works. I promise you the MCCPTA gifted Ed committee has tried very very hard to get AEI to clarify how these student services are incorporated into the process and has asked if there is a separate lottery for those students or if they have different thresholds. AEI has not answered this question.

I don’t think you are reading the criteria very thoroughly. It says SpEd, ELD, 504, etc, are some of the measures that are used to evaluate students for the program. While it doesn’t say these students will not be locally normed, these are factors that are taken into account.

I assure you I’m reading it thoroughly. As I said, I am aware those are some of the criteria they are using in the process. I just take issue with the assumption a PP is making that being a student with one of those identifications confers some type of advantage or thumb on the scale in the process. It does not. Or perhaps it does. But it is not explained. If you look down to number 10 on the FAQ, it essentially says even if your kid is identified and wins the lottery, if you are a member if one of these special populations, your team can recommend that you not go forward with the CES placement. I truly think they norm everybody’s scores and then for students who have IEPs or ESOL or whatever else, they take a second look at their data and supports/accommodations needed to see if they can provide it within the CES program. If they can, kid gets the offer. If not, kid does not. Vast majority of kids with IEPs, ESOL, etc are not in the top 15 percent to begin with. Of course some are, but it’s not thousands of kids.

Their site makes it clear it does but the earlier poster here seemed to think it counted against a kid which is not only false but illegal.

+1 So the question is whether SpEd, ELD, etc, counts for or against the student. If being SpEd, for example, counts against the student, that is illegal. So the fact that SpEd, ELD, etc, are factors, and they are not negative factors -- the only remaining choice is that they are positive factors. If they were "neutral" factors, then they would not be factors at all and why would they even mention these in FAQs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pine Crest--kid was in the lottery but not selected, will get ELC next year. Honestly we (including kid) had been going back and forth about wanting a spot. Kid wanted more in-depth, interesting work but was not excited about the longer bus ride and super late dismissal, which would've messed with their long-held after school activity. Staying at the same school with pull-outs for ELC and compacted math seems to be the best option, to be honest.

We can relate. DS got ELC/waitlisted also, and though a little disappointed, we’re also relieved because he has a large group of good friends and our current schedule works for us given all our after school activities.

I had an older child go through the CES a while ago, and my younger one was also waitlisted because of the lottery in 2021. I know it may not feel like it, but it isn't the end of the world. The CES is a great program, but there's a lot you can do to ensure your child gets similar exposure regardless of the school's ELC program. I liked the CES mainly because of the cohort, but the academics aren't unique.

Like what? I've got a very bright, very bored 3rd grader who made the lottery but wasn't selected, and getting his home school to provide enrichment is like trying to push jello up a hill.

[Anonymous]

You could all call AEI and get your own answer. The thing is, it's a lottery with a complicated process and nobody knows if a 99% or a 85% will get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pine Crest--kid was in the lottery but not selected, will get ELC next year. Honestly we (including kid) had been going back and forth about wanting a spot. Kid wanted more in-depth, interesting work but was not excited about the longer bus ride and super late dismissal, which would've messed with their long-held after school activity. Staying at the same school with pull-outs for ELC and compacted math seems to be the best option, to be honest.

We can relate. DS got ELC/waitlisted also, and though a little disappointed, we’re also relieved because he has a large group of good friends and our current schedule works for us given all our after school activities.

I had an older child go through the CES a while ago, and my younger one was also waitlisted because of the lottery in 2021. I know it may not feel like it, but it isn't the end of the world. The CES is a great program, but there's a lot you can do to ensure your child gets similar exposure regardless of the school's ELC program. I liked the CES mainly because of the cohort, but the academics aren't unique.

Like what? I've got a very bright, very bored 3rd grader who made the lottery but wasn't selected, and getting his home school to provide enrichment is like trying to push jello up a hill.

I've had this experience, but at least next year they should be getting ELC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pine Crest--kid was in the lottery but not selected, will get ELC next year. Honestly we (including kid) had been going back and forth about wanting a spot. Kid wanted more in-depth, interesting work but was not excited about the longer bus ride and super late dismissal, which would've messed with their long-held after school activity. Staying at the same school with pull-outs for ELC and compacted math seems to be the best option, to be honest.

We can relate. DS got ELC/waitlisted also, and though a little disappointed, we’re also relieved because he has a large group of good friends and our current schedule works for us given all our after school activities.

I had an older child go through the CES a while ago, and my younger one was also waitlisted because of the lottery in 2021. I know it may not feel like it, but it isn't the end of the world. The CES is a great program, but there's a lot you can do to ensure your child gets similar exposure regardless of the school's ELC program. I liked the CES mainly because of the cohort, but the academics aren't unique.

Like what? I've got a very bright, very bored 3rd grader who made the lottery but wasn't selected, and getting his home school to provide enrichment is like trying to push jello up a hill.

I've had this experience, but at least next year they should be getting ELC.

Honestly, they were supposed to be getting enrichment this year too. Not at all overflowing with confidence in my home school's ability or motivation to provide it.

Is there a list of GT specialists by school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS should stop wasting money on surveys and contractors and start focusing on properly educating all the kids who meet the parameters for CES/enrichment/magnet schools. Or perhaps MCPS needs to also ask why so many kids qualify for these enhancement programs? Maybe educational standards need to go up. These lotteries are ridiculous.

Agreed.

+1 Maybe raise the bar to top 2 percent, the way CTY does, to enter the lottery, and moderate or high FARMs can be locally normed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS should stop wasting money on surveys and contractors and start focusing on properly educating all the kids who meet the parameters for CES/enrichment/magnet schools. Or perhaps MCPS needs to also ask why so many kids qualify for these enhancement programs? Maybe educational standards need to go up. These lotteries are ridiculous.

Agreed.

+1 Maybe raise the bar to top 2 percent, the way CTY does, to enter the lottery, and moderate or high FARMs can be locally normed.

Maybe we could actually dedicate money and resources to expanding the enriched studies program so that every kid who qualifies can access that instruction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pine Crest--kid was in the lottery but not selected, will get ELC next year. Honestly we (including kid) had been going back and forth about wanting a spot. Kid wanted more in-depth, interesting work but was not excited about the longer bus ride and super late dismissal, which would've messed with their long-held after school activity. Staying at the same school with pull-outs for ELC and compacted math seems to be the best option, to be honest.

We can relate. DS got ELC/waitlisted also, and though a little disappointed, we’re also relieved because he has a large group of good friends and our current schedule works for us given all our after school activities.

I had an older child go through the CES a while ago, and my younger one was also waitlisted because of the lottery in 2021. I know it may not feel like it, but it isn't the end of the world. The CES is a great program, but there's a lot you can do to ensure your child gets similar exposure regardless of the school's ELC program. I liked the CES mainly because of the cohort, but the academics aren't unique.

Like what? I've got a very bright, very bored 3rd grader who made the lottery but wasn't selected, and getting his home school to provide enrichment is like trying to push jello up a hill.

I've had this experience, but at least next year they should be getting ELC.

Honestly, they were supposed to be getting enrichment this year too. Not at all overflowing with confidence in my home school's ability or motivation to provide it.

Is there a list of GT specialists by school?

Indeed. I've been frustrated since kindergarten about the remedial kind of learning they do. Anyways, who the GT person is should be in the directory or newsletter. If not, just ask the front office.