Equality vs Equity

[Anonymous]

Equity is supposed to be everyone getting what they need - but kids already doing well in school are NOT getting what they need. They are bored out of their minds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Equality means everyone has the same opportunity but outcomes are different.

Equity means outcomes are the same. It will never be, and it sets everyone up for failure .

I’ve reconciled myself to the fact that we are a capitalist society and the educational opportunities presented to higher SES children are often better than the educational opportunities presented to lower SES children, and that the parents either directly (through private tuition) or indirectly (by self-selecting in to higher-achieving schools in higher-priced neighborhoods) pay for the educational opportunities their children receive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread proves exactly how Youngkin was able to win. Scare a bunch of gullible women with fake scenarios and you'll have em beleiveing anything.

Ummm... are you a teacher or do you have an academically advanced child in a public school? People who see what is going on with their own eyes know these aren't fake scenarios.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Either is fine with me but the way I’d like it implemented is that women have as many bathrooms as needed at concert and stadiums.

I don’t know if it as many stalls as men have stalls and urinals (equality) or women need more (equity) to have smaller lines.

We know there are not more women at football games but the lines are longer for the bathroom.

I think that's a good example. Having the same number of stalls for men and as there are stalls for women, plus additional urinals for men is unequal and inequitable. Equal numbers of facilities for both genders are generally inequitable for women because women take more time to go to the bathroom because they use stalls. Designing facilities so women don't spend more time waiting in line than men requires unequal facilities to produce a more equitable result.

Equity recognizes differences in groups so that adjustments can be made to give fair access. Equal bathroom facilities are not fair to women, because women have to spend more time waiting in line. Equitable solutions acknowledge inherent differences that allow women to have similar access to events as men.

Thank you for validating my need for shorter lines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Perfect image.

Yes, this is neither equality nor equity. This is ENTITLEMENT. The three people can pay for the game like everyone else and watch the game sitting in a proper seat in the stadium. Instead they are indulging in dishonest practices and watching from outside the fence without paying. They could watch it for free on a TV, but they feel entitled to breaking rules/laws.

( In 1...2...3, someone will talk about how having married law-abiding parents is a massive privilege. Oh, so sorry. How do we prevent men from sticking their dicks in random women? )

+1000.

Also notice how it's just about giving a hand-out and confining people to become passive spectators. If this were about giving people true opportunity, maybe the tallest person would actually be a player on the field, the girl would be a paying customer in the front row thanks to her high paying job, and the kid in the wheelchair would now be working as the sportscaster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Perfect image.

Yes, this is neither equality nor equity. This is ENTITLEMENT. The three people can pay for the game like everyone else and watch the game sitting in a proper seat in the stadium. Instead they are indulging in dishonest practices and watching from outside the fence without paying. They could watch it for free on a TV, but they feel entitled to breaking rules/laws.

( In 1...2...3, someone will talk about how having married law-abiding parents is a massive privilege. Oh, so sorry. How do we prevent men from sticking their dicks in random women? )

+1000.

Also notice how it's just about giving a hand-out and confining people to become passive spectators. If this were about giving people true opportunity, maybe the tallest person would actually be a player on the field, the girl would be a paying customer in the front row thanks to her high paying job, and the kid in the wheelchair would now be working as the sportscaster.

I never thought about this picture in this way before but you may be right - this is not a good picture. You’re right there must be other better examples of equity versus equality. If someone finds one please post it. I looked and could not find one. I recall seeing one in the presentation for a board meeting and explained it better.

[Anonymous]

Equality is when you are laid off to give your job to POC.

Equity is when whole family laid off to give all your jobs to POC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Except this isn’t how equity plays out in real life. The person on the left would be standing in a hole so he couldn’t see just like the others. When we can’t figure out how to bring others up, we hold people back to close the gap, particularly in public education.

Just stop. You keep trying to push this false narrative. No, the person on the left does not and is not really in a hole. This is just your paranoid narrative of “Those people are taking something from me so they can get a decent life.”

Yeah, no.

When a wealthy black person with strong family ties and community support is given a specific material advantage over a poor white person from a broken home and without any community support then how else would you describe it? Why is skin color more worthy of “equity” than economic class, education level or family circumstances?

Does the poor white person get frightened that they might be murdered when they’re pulled over on the side of the road by the police? Yeah, I didn’t think so. That wealthy black person does. Doesn’t matter how much money or community support they have. They’re still followed in the store, still live in fear for being brutalized by the police, and still looked at as being lesser than by many.

Cops kill more whites than blacks.

Not per capita

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Equality is when you are laid off to give your job to POC.

Equity is when whole family laid off to give all your jobs to POC.

Since these things don’t happen, this is a poor explanation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Equity should mean giving everyone the support they need. The problem that cartoon shows is that it actually gives some absolutely nothing. They aren’t allowed equal opportunity to advance beyond where they are.

Because the support given is relative to the goal. It's okay if not everybody "gets something" if they don't need it to try to achieve the goal. If the goal is to see over the fence to watch the baseball game, of course the tall kid on the left doesn't get anything to assist him, because he doesn't need it. He already has everything he needs with his two long legs. When you go to the movies, some people sit in a chair and listen with their ears, some people sit in a chair and listen to audio description because they are visually impaired, and some people sit in their wheelchair in a designated space to watch the movie.

Let's use an educational example. When students attend college, some students need assistance to be successful their first year. Universities offer tutoring, counseling, and career counseling to help students when they need academic and social support. When I taught years ago, there was also a specific program designated to support migrant students who had not had consistent schooling. It provided academic and social support from people who were familiar with the needs of that specific population. That has since been merged with a multicultural assistance program. There are also programs that provide supports to veterans and students with disabilities. There are supports for everyone, and supports for some that need them. It takes nothing from one group to offer assistance to the other.

Except that this cartoon always, always is used in the wrong circumstances.
Should children behind in reading (or math or handwriting, etc.) have extra help? Yes, absolutely. But should children already performing ahead of expectations be left to their own devices? No. They also need help to continue on their path, to the best of their abilities.
And that’s why I dislike this cartoon.

Our society is likely screwed. Victimhood is prevailing.

Even worse, by removing the box for the tall person, the cartoon is actually about taking away opportunities for kids performing ahead of expectations. Basically schools must cancel all AP classes and only focus on remedial assistance.

While I agree that conservatives have really mastered the cult of victimhood — never have I seen so many whining sissies in all my life — I think society is just fine. Eventually they’ll get over it … or die.

[Anonymous]

People who say they want equality of opportunity often don't. Because they are very willing to ignore all kinds of things that make opportunity unequal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Which is better and what's the difference between the two?

Troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Except this isn’t how equity plays out in real life. The person on the left would be standing in a hole so he couldn’t see just like the others. When we can’t figure out how to bring others up, we hold people back to close the gap, particularly in public education.

Just stop. You keep trying to push this false narrative. No, the person on the left does not and is not really in a hole. This is just your paranoid narrative of “Those people are taking something from me so they can get a decent life.”

Yeah, no.

When a wealthy black person with strong family ties and community support is given a specific material advantage over a poor white person from a broken home and without any community support then how else would you describe it? Why is skin color more worthy of “equity” than economic class, education level or family circumstances?

Does the poor white person get frightened that they might be murdered when they’re pulled over on the side of the road by the police? Yeah, I didn’t think so. That wealthy black person does. Doesn’t matter how much money or community support they have. They’re still followed in the store, still live in fear for being brutalized by the police, and still looked at as being lesser than by many.

Cops kill more whites than blacks.

Not per capita

Per capita based on census data is a failed benchmark. No benchmark is 100% accurate, but there are better ones. Here's a great local study that goes through different benchmarks and discusses the benefits and drawbacks of each. This is how to conduct a proper analysis so that people can more accurately see just exactly what police may be doing to contribute to disparate outcomes. The oversimplified analyses in the media do more harm than good.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/10986111221139442

https://wtop.com/fairfax-county/2021/06/study-finds-fairfax-police-use-of-force-higher-than-expected-against-blacks-and-whites/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread proves exactly how Youngkin was able to win. Scare a bunch of gullible women with fake scenarios and you'll have em beleiveing anything.

Ummm... are you a teacher or do you have an academically advanced child in a public school? People who see what is going on with their own eyes know these aren't fake scenarios.

Exactly why we moved to private schools where they don't give an F about equity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People who say they want equality of opportunity often don't. Because they are very willing to ignore all kinds of things that make opportunity unequal.

I actually don’t care how much extra help the behind kids get as long as we stop holding back and eliminating opportunities for the advanced kids. I don’t need extra staff or tutoring or anything. Just stop eliminating classes that would actually challenge my child. Give all the extra help and staff you want to other kids! It’s fine!