interesting discussion regarding abysmal decline of MoCo schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To PP, some of that comparison with other countries is unfair because other countries provide social services through other agencies that the US provides through its school so the cost of schooling looks higher.

I agree that central office needs to stop coming up with dumb initiatives for teachers and let the teachers teach.

But there is a bit National problem of teacher shortages. A good friend runs a small private school in another state. He had two young teachers quit mid year leaving him totally in the lurch, basically because they just weren’t feeling it. I have a relative who got a teaching masters but has never taught because decided she only wants remote work with a flexible schedule. It’s making life impossible for the senior teachers who have to have fill gaps with the inadequate staffing. I don’t really know what the solution is for this.

Schools in all school districts in this country are not social service agencies. That was a choice Montgomery County made.

And other school districts that decided it was better for the schools to provide the social services than for nobody to provide the social services.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/29/magazine/rural-homeless-students.html

The county has tons of social services.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just clicked on the link. Thanks for posting. Most people make really good points. Unfortunately, our BOE and MCPS leadership don’t care.

Smaller class sizes and better discipline sounds like common requests that I think, everyone could get behind. Why can’t MCPS start there?

Except that costs money and a tax hike needed to pay for this will mostly go to create more central office jobs.

The bottom line is MCPS is about the same or even better than years past, the demographics of the county are what has changed. That has an impact on standardized test scores but doesn't mean you can't get a great education. People just need to accept and adapt instead of focusing on a past that never really existed.

Blaming it on “changing demographics” is just an excuse to lay the decline of MCPS at the feet of the black and brown students and not the incompetent administration.

DP here. I don't think anyone is blaming the changing demographics. Or at least they shouldn't. The issue is that MCPS has been using the wrong strategies for addressing the needs of the changing demographics

Are you saying that the demographics of Montgomery County are the same in 2022 as they were in 2002? That is simply not true. The demographics HAVE changed. And that matters, because the schools system has to spend more money to meet the needs of the new students. That means less money for other things.

Of course the changing demographics have had an effect on the schools system. It’s naive or disingenuous to say otherwise.

I'm the PP you're responding to. I never said that. I said the cause of the decline was not because of the changing demographics but the result of the ineffective solutions that MCPS has put in place in it's attempt to address the needs of the changing demographics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most of what is in the Reddit is true. Morale abysmal (students, parents, teachers, paras, etc.), administration is severely bloated, special ed is a disaster that will cost the system for years to come (for all the education the special ed kids are entitled to and are not receiving), and there is no longer any discipline anywhere, or consequences for anything for students (for behaviors, for abuses, for not doing work).

So many reasons, but I'll put the blame squarely at the top: the GOP would like to dismantle public education and use tax dollars for private catholic education. They have been playing the long game, and have been helped along by the oandemic

Honey the schools in Moco get over 3 BILLION a year and have been run by DEMS the entire time. Nah this disaster is squarely on the libs…

This. And as a Republican myself, Montgomery County leaves me to question my belief that all education should be handled at the state level. I shudder to think what the state of Maryland would do to further the decline were they given the opportunity. And this is not on liberals, liberals are not the progressive Democrats who rule the Democrat Party and Montgomery County. Democrats just borrowed that name when being a Democrat became a dirty word. Democrats are not liberals, not in any sense.

[Anonymous]

Let’s not forget Curriculum 2.0 and all that nonsense.

MCPS used to focus on gifted and talented instruction but that has fallen out of favor.

So many reasons for the decline in some, but not all, schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To PP, some of that comparison with other countries is unfair because other countries provide social services through other agencies that the US provides through its school so the cost of schooling looks higher.

I agree that central office needs to stop coming up with dumb initiatives for teachers and let the teachers teach.

But there is a bit National problem of teacher shortages. A good friend runs a small private school in another state. He had two young teachers quit mid year leaving him totally in the lurch, basically because they just weren’t feeling it. I have a relative who got a teaching masters but has never taught because decided she only wants remote work with a flexible schedule. It’s making life impossible for the senior teachers who have to have fill gaps with the inadequate staffing. I don’t really know what the solution is for this.

Schools in all school districts in this country are not social service agencies. That was a choice Montgomery County made.

And other school districts that decided it was better for the schools to provide the social services than for nobody to provide the social services.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/29/magazine/rural-homeless-students.html

The county has tons of social services.

Yes, the county does provide some social services. And other social services are provided by MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most of what is in the Reddit is true. Morale abysmal (students, parents, teachers, paras, etc.), administration is severely bloated, special ed is a disaster that will cost the system for years to come (for all the education the special ed kids are entitled to and are not receiving), and there is no longer any discipline anywhere, or consequences for anything for students (for behaviors, for abuses, for not doing work).

So many reasons, but I'll put the blame squarely at the top: the GOP would like to dismantle public education and use tax dollars for private catholic education. They have been playing the long game, and have been helped along by the oandemic

Honey the schools in Moco get over 3 BILLION a year and have been run by DEMS the entire time. Nah this disaster is squarely on the libs…

This. And as a Republican myself, Montgomery County leaves me to question my belief that all education should be handled at the state level. I shudder to think what the state of Maryland would do to further the decline were they given the opportunity. And this is not on liberals, liberals are not the progressive Democrats who rule the Democrat Party and Montgomery County. Democrats just borrowed that name when being a Democrat became a dirty word. Democrats are not liberals, not in any sense.

Everyone who holds elective office in Montgomery County is there because they won the majority of the votes. Also, they are all affiliated with the Democratic Party. Also, they are all Democrats. Also, some of them are liberals, some of them are progressives, and some of them would have been Republicans 20-30 years ago, before the Republican Party headed off in the direction it's now headed off into.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let’s not forget Curriculum 2.0 and all that nonsense.

MCPS used to focus on gifted and talented instruction but that has fallen out of favor.

So many reasons for the decline in some, but not all, schools.

Focusing on gifted and talented instruction seems problematic. What about the other 95% of students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most of what is in the Reddit is true. Morale abysmal (students, parents, teachers, paras, etc.), administration is severely bloated, special ed is a disaster that will cost the system for years to come (for all the education the special ed kids are entitled to and are not receiving), and there is no longer any discipline anywhere, or consequences for anything for students (for behaviors, for abuses, for not doing work).

So many reasons, but I'll put the blame squarely at the top: the GOP would like to dismantle public education and use tax dollars for private catholic education. They have been playing the long game, and have been helped along by the oandemic

Honey the schools in Moco get over 3 BILLION a year and have been run by DEMS the entire time. Nah this disaster is squarely on the libs…

“Honey?” “Libs?”

Sorry you’re dumb.

[Anonymous]

Put discipline back in schools, give freedom back to teachers to teach their students accordingly, put SROs back in the High Schools, and eliminate any programs or initiatives that falsely close the achievement gap.
I do like the rising number of college and career programs that they've instituted over the past few years. They should keep expanding that. And they should absolutely pay excellent teachers a TON of money. They need to incentivize young and talented people to go into the teaching profession. Hard to do that when the salaries are low compared to other careers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s not forget Curriculum 2.0 and all that nonsense.

MCPS used to focus on gifted and talented instruction but that has fallen out of favor.

So many reasons for the decline in some, but not all, schools.

Focusing on gifted and talented instruction seems problematic. What about the other 95% of students?

It’s more than 5% GT in MCPS. Because at some schools, 75% are testing gifted and talented, so their teachers are going to naturally accelerate. But there are always some GT at every school. Those kids deserve the same opportunities for accelerated instruction. It’s possible to provide these type of opportunities AND provide a decent education to everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To PP, some of that comparison with other countries is unfair because other countries provide social services through other agencies that the US provides through its school so the cost of schooling looks higher.

I agree that central office needs to stop coming up with dumb initiatives for teachers and let the teachers teach.

But there is a bit National problem of teacher shortages. A good friend runs a small private school in another state. He had two young teachers quit mid year leaving him totally in the lurch, basically because they just weren’t feeling it. I have a relative who got a teaching masters but has never taught because decided she only wants remote work with a flexible schedule. It’s making life impossible for the senior teachers who have to have fill gaps with the inadequate staffing. I don’t really know what the solution is for this.

Schools in all school districts in this country are not social service agencies. That was a choice Montgomery County made.

And other school districts that decided it was better for the schools to provide the social services than for nobody to provide the social services.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/29/magazine/rural-homeless-students.html

The county has tons of social services.

Yes, the county does provide some social services. And other social services are provided by MCPS.

And that is ridiculous. MCPS should focus on education.

There are plenty of other entities that provide social services in Montgomery County. Non-profits, government agencies, religious institutions. There are plenty of options.

MCPS needs to focus on one mission - education. My kid’s classroom teacher left the classroom and now organizes food pantries for MCPS. She is still an MCPS employee, but she doesn’t actually teach kids in a classroom anymore. With the shortage of classroom teachers, it would make sense to keep her teaching kids in the classroom, instead of using her teaching degree to provide social services.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s not forget Curriculum 2.0 and all that nonsense.

MCPS used to focus on gifted and talented instruction but that has fallen out of favor.

So many reasons for the decline in some, but not all, schools.

Focusing on gifted and talented instruction seems problematic. What about the other 95% of students?

It’s more than 5% GT in MCPS. Because at some schools, 75% are testing gifted and talented, so their teachers are going to naturally accelerate. But there are always some GT at every school. Those kids deserve the same opportunities for accelerated instruction. It’s possible to provide these type of opportunities AND provide a decent education to everyone.

Because in MCPS, every child is above average?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just clicked on the link. Thanks for posting. Most people make really good points. Unfortunately, our BOE and MCPS leadership don’t care.

Smaller class sizes and better discipline sounds like common requests that I think, everyone could get behind. Why can’t MCPS start there?

Except that costs money and a tax hike needed to pay for this will mostly go to create more central office jobs.

The bottom line is MCPS is about the same or even better than years past, the demographics of the county are what has changed. That has an impact on standardized test scores but doesn't mean you can't get a great education. People just need to accept and adapt instead of focusing on a past that never really existed.

Blaming it on “changing demographics” is just an excuse to lay the decline of MCPS at the feet of the black and brown students and not the incompetent administration.

DP here. I don't think anyone is blaming the changing demographics. Or at least they shouldn't. The issue is that MCPS has been using the wrong strategies for addressing the needs of the changing demographics

Are you saying that the demographics of Montgomery County are the same in 2022 as they were in 2002? That is simply not true. The demographics HAVE changed. And that matters, because the schools system has to spend more money to meet the needs of the new students. That means less money for other things.

Of course the changing demographics have had an effect on the schools system. It’s naive or disingenuous to say otherwise.

I'm the PP you're responding to. I never said that. I said the cause of the decline was not because of the changing demographics but the result of the ineffective solutions that MCPS has put in place in it's attempt to address the needs of the changing demographics.

Okay. So we agree that, for a variety of reasons, the changing demographics have caused a decline in MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To PP, some of that comparison with other countries is unfair because other countries provide social services through other agencies that the US provides through its school so the cost of schooling looks higher.

I agree that central office needs to stop coming up with dumb initiatives for teachers and let the teachers teach.

But there is a bit National problem of teacher shortages. A good friend runs a small private school in another state. He had two young teachers quit mid year leaving him totally in the lurch, basically because they just weren’t feeling it. I have a relative who got a teaching masters but has never taught because decided she only wants remote work with a flexible schedule. It’s making life impossible for the senior teachers who have to have fill gaps with the inadequate staffing. I don’t really know what the solution is for this.

Schools in all school districts in this country are not social service agencies. That was a choice Montgomery County made.

And other school districts that decided it was better for the schools to provide the social services than for nobody to provide the social services.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/29/magazine/rural-homeless-students.html

The county has tons of social services.

Yes, the county does provide some social services. And other social services are provided by MCPS.

And that is ridiculous. MCPS should focus on education.

There are plenty of other entities that provide social services in Montgomery County. Non-profits, government agencies, religious institutions. There are plenty of options.

MCPS needs to focus on one mission - education. My kid’s classroom teacher left the classroom and now organizes food pantries for MCPS. She is still an MCPS employee, but she doesn’t actually teach kids in a classroom anymore. With the shortage of classroom teachers, it would make sense to keep her teaching kids in the classroom, instead of using her teaching degree to provide social services.

There may be plenty of options, but they are evidently not adequate to the need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just clicked on the link. Thanks for posting. Most people make really good points. Unfortunately, our BOE and MCPS leadership don’t care.

Smaller class sizes and better discipline sounds like common requests that I think, everyone could get behind. Why can’t MCPS start there?

Except that costs money and a tax hike needed to pay for this will mostly go to create more central office jobs.

The bottom line is MCPS is about the same or even better than years past, the demographics of the county are what has changed. That has an impact on standardized test scores but doesn't mean you can't get a great education. People just need to accept and adapt instead of focusing on a past that never really existed.

Blaming it on “changing demographics” is just an excuse to lay the decline of MCPS at the feet of the black and brown students and not the incompetent administration.

The blame should be shared.

The dramatic shift in demographics—including socioeconomics—prompted a shift in the curriculum in an effort to help lower-performing students achieve the (admittedly lowered) standards/benchmark. They ditched cursive, grammar, and went all in on reading and math blocks—typically with teachers racing through multiple groups (meaning kids receive very little direct instruction) instead of grouping kids by ability and having them switch classrooms for instruction.

Keep class sizes to 24.

Put desks in rows.

Go back to the basics to ensure kids learn grammar and writing.

Maintain discipline.

Use summer school for kids with learning issues or for those who don’t speak English (and track their test scores separately).

Operate like a private school.

^^^
The reality is mcps loses all sense of order and discipline in middle school. Rein in the behavior issues. Ramp up the academics.