interesting discussion regarding abysmal decline of MoCo schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have worked for MCPS for a long time. I don't think MCPS has changed, but our county demographics certainly have changed. We have more newcomers with limited to no English language. We have much higher rates of poverty and trauma. Parents who are struggling to keep roofs over their heads, substance abuse, domestic violence, etc. All of these societal problems are spilling into our school buildings and quite frankly, staff are overwhelmed. It's very, very challenging to try and teach or run a building when you have a few kids in each grade-level who are consistently occupying 95% of your bandwidth. These kids didn't ask to be born into crappy conditions but they're in our schools and are having a really tough time despite the best efforts by staff to support their SEL needs.
We have to be honest with ourselves - until the parents (society) gets in a better place, we're going to continue to see the effects in our buildings. The curriculum standards have become harder with CCSS but we've lowered our expectations. Students know that there aren't any real consequences. We don't suspend students because of the school to prison pipeline. Trust me when I tell you, there are kids I would have advocated for suspension years ago but now knowing what they'd do at home, I'd rather them be safe and fed in our building. Admin are basically spending any free moment covering duties, dealing with behavior issues, etc. This gets in the way of them being able to get into classrooms to observe actual teaching and instruction.
Personally, I'm tired of schools and MCPS being blamed for all of the problems that we've created as a society. We aren't private schools - we take whoever comes to enroll and we do the best that we can with limited staff and training in trauma-informed practices.

DP. This 100%. I'm a parent with kids at a MS and HS with high FARMS rates. The staff at these schools are dealing with problems that aren't even related to academics and it doesn't help that MCPS has taken an approach to discipline that provides little to no consequences. The kids who stay out of trouble, come from stable families who prioritize education, and hang out with similar students are barely affected by this. They get good grades, join clubs and do extracurricular activities, take AP and IB classes, take full advantage of the MCPS college and career programs available to them, and will get into good colleges. Unfortunately, the ones with issues that stem from outside the school (poverty, domestic violence, etc.) are going to have a tough time regardless of the MCPS disciplinary approach. All of this is not some breaking news though. No school system can fix society's problems and while no one wants to hear this, at the end of the day- the most important factor in a child's success is their PARENTS.

The sentence I bolded is so true. If the parents aren't properly raising their kids and providing a poor home-life, there is only so much the schools can do. If your kid comes from a stable home and the parents prioritize education, your kid will do fine in MCPS.

I disagree that my kid will do fine. she attends a high FARMS high school. she is taking advanced classes because they are "easy". There are several kids in her classes that shouldn't be there and as a result, the teachers are slowing down the teaching and skipping important concepts. How do I know this? My kid is getting easy As in her AP classes yet doing poorly on the AP exams claiming a lot of the material on the exam was not covered. Not to mention that she always has the less advanced kids in her group projects and has to carry the weight. she just had to draft a research paper and put together a presentation with no help from her group. I saw their contributions and it was bad. very bad. I wish I could post some examples. My kid had to redo everything because in MCPS, it is a collective group grade and if she went with what her peers submitted she would have received a lot grade. Why they allow.some kids to take advanced classes is beyond me. my kids intentionally signed up for tough classes to avoid the riffraff but they are still there.

I'm curious what school this is. What school allows the barely literate to take AP classes?

DP

Where does the PP say that the students are ‘barely literate’?

I will agree with what she is saying. My kid had that experience in 8th grade Advanced English and it was terrible.

I did - up above, and I am an AP teacher. Many teachers report 4th and 5th grade reading levels in AP English this year.

I'm stunned at how my son's AP English teacher lets my son get away with poor grammar and sloppy writing. It seems like the standards have been relaxed, which I could see for on-level classes, but not AP level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I hear people say that Arlington and MoCo are declining, what I really hear is "a public good is now being consumed by members of the public who aren't as rich and privileged as I would like." Public education is a public good. You don't get to keep the people who need it the most out. Private schools were designed for people just like you.

This is utter nonsense and you know it.

The degradation or dilution of a public good should alarm any and everyone who uses it.

Republicans have wanted this for decades.

So why aren't Democrats stopping it from happening?

Well, if it were up to the GOP, public education would be dead and it would be all vouchers to private mostly religious schools.

Well, the Democrats run this county and we have taxpayer money going to pay for MCPS staff to work at private religious schools.

As it stands, only the wealthy in Montgomery County have school choice. Vouchers could be a good idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have worked for MCPS for a long time. I don't think MCPS has changed, but our county demographics certainly have changed. We have more newcomers with limited to no English language. We have much higher rates of poverty and trauma. Parents who are struggling to keep roofs over their heads, substance abuse, domestic violence, etc. All of these societal problems are spilling into our school buildings and quite frankly, staff are overwhelmed. It's very, very challenging to try and teach or run a building when you have a few kids in each grade-level who are consistently occupying 95% of your bandwidth. These kids didn't ask to be born into crappy conditions but they're in our schools and are having a really tough time despite the best efforts by staff to support their SEL needs.
We have to be honest with ourselves - until the parents (society) gets in a better place, we're going to continue to see the effects in our buildings. The curriculum standards have become harder with CCSS but we've lowered our expectations. Students know that there aren't any real consequences. We don't suspend students because of the school to prison pipeline. Trust me when I tell you, there are kids I would have advocated for suspension years ago but now knowing what they'd do at home, I'd rather them be safe and fed in our building. Admin are basically spending any free moment covering duties, dealing with behavior issues, etc. This gets in the way of them being able to get into classrooms to observe actual teaching and instruction.
Personally, I'm tired of schools and MCPS being blamed for all of the problems that we've created as a society. We aren't private schools - we take whoever comes to enroll and we do the best that we can with limited staff and training in trauma-informed practices.

DP. This 100%. I'm a parent with kids at a MS and HS with high FARMS rates. The staff at these schools are dealing with problems that aren't even related to academics and it doesn't help that MCPS has taken an approach to discipline that provides little to no consequences. The kids who stay out of trouble, come from stable families who prioritize education, and hang out with similar students are barely affected by this. They get good grades, join clubs and do extracurricular activities, take AP and IB classes, take full advantage of the MCPS college and career programs available to them, and will get into good colleges. Unfortunately, the ones with issues that stem from outside the school (poverty, domestic violence, etc.) are going to have a tough time regardless of the MCPS disciplinary approach. All of this is not some breaking news though. No school system can fix society's problems and while no one wants to hear this, at the end of the day- the most important factor in a child's success is their PARENTS.

The sentence I bolded is so true. If the parents aren't properly raising their kids and providing a poor home-life, there is only so much the schools can do. If your kid comes from a stable home and the parents prioritize education, your kid will do fine in MCPS.

I disagree that my kid will do fine. she attends a high FARMS high school. she is taking advanced classes because they are "easy". There are several kids in her classes that shouldn't be there and as a result, the teachers are slowing down the teaching and skipping important concepts. How do I know this? My kid is getting easy As in her AP classes yet doing poorly on the AP exams claiming a lot of the material on the exam was not covered. Not to mention that she always has the less advanced kids in her group projects and has to carry the weight. she just had to draft a research paper and put together a presentation with no help from her group. I saw their contributions and it was bad. very bad. I wish I could post some examples. My kid had to redo everything because in MCPS, it is a collective group grade and if she went with what her peers submitted she would have received a lot grade. Why they allow.some kids to take advanced classes is beyond me. my kids intentionally signed up for tough classes to avoid the riffraff but they are still there.

This sounds like you need to speak to the teacher, counselor and principals at your kids school. Allowing open enrollment and encouraging all kids to reach for harder content does not mean that teachers have to lower the standards or the rigor of a class. It does means that as student do bad, they are provided with the needed feedback and supports to help them succeed. Some of these supports will be from the teacher, some from the school(support classes, tutoring) and other options may be on the kid/family(outside tutoring, additional practice, etc.).

Kids should be allowed to rate the participation/effort out in of their group’s peer and that be factored into the project grade. Also you kid should arrange a conference with their teacher to discuss their concern with the groups participation against the level of expectation for secure a good grade. This is all preparation for the real world.

It's important to provide feedback and supports, but there's only so far that can go. If a student is several grade levels behind in their skill level, it's not going to be possible to remediate that gap plus keep up with ongoing new learning even with feedback and supports. If the student remains in the course, it's going to slow everything down and the student will not thrive either. There needs to be some assessment of kids' ability to take the class before they enroll and some evaluation as to whether they can remain in the course. Pure open enrollment is unlikely to be sustainable without lowering standards and rigor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have worked for MCPS for a long time. I don't think MCPS has changed, but our county demographics certainly have changed. We have more newcomers with limited to no English language. We have much higher rates of poverty and trauma. Parents who are struggling to keep roofs over their heads, substance abuse, domestic violence, etc. All of these societal problems are spilling into our school buildings and quite frankly, staff are overwhelmed. It's very, very challenging to try and teach or run a building when you have a few kids in each grade-level who are consistently occupying 95% of your bandwidth. These kids didn't ask to be born into crappy conditions but they're in our schools and are having a really tough time despite the best efforts by staff to support their SEL needs.
We have to be honest with ourselves - until the parents (society) gets in a better place, we're going to continue to see the effects in our buildings. The curriculum standards have become harder with CCSS but we've lowered our expectations. Students know that there aren't any real consequences. We don't suspend students because of the school to prison pipeline. Trust me when I tell you, there are kids I would have advocated for suspension years ago but now knowing what they'd do at home, I'd rather them be safe and fed in our building. Admin are basically spending any free moment covering duties, dealing with behavior issues, etc. This gets in the way of them being able to get into classrooms to observe actual teaching and instruction.
Personally, I'm tired of schools and MCPS being blamed for all of the problems that we've created as a society. We aren't private schools - we take whoever comes to enroll and we do the best that we can with limited staff and training in trauma-informed practices.

DP. This 100%. I'm a parent with kids at a MS and HS with high FARMS rates. The staff at these schools are dealing with problems that aren't even related to academics and it doesn't help that MCPS has taken an approach to discipline that provides little to no consequences. The kids who stay out of trouble, come from stable families who prioritize education, and hang out with similar students are barely affected by this. They get good grades, join clubs and do extracurricular activities, take AP and IB classes, take full advantage of the MCPS college and career programs available to them, and will get into good colleges. Unfortunately, the ones with issues that stem from outside the school (poverty, domestic violence, etc.) are going to have a tough time regardless of the MCPS disciplinary approach. All of this is not some breaking news though. No school system can fix society's problems and while no one wants to hear this, at the end of the day- the most important factor in a child's success is their PARENTS.

The sentence I bolded is so true. If the parents aren't properly raising their kids and providing a poor home-life, there is only so much the schools can do. If your kid comes from a stable home and the parents prioritize education, your kid will do fine in MCPS.

I disagree that my kid will do fine. she attends a high FARMS high school. she is taking advanced classes because they are "easy". There are several kids in her classes that shouldn't be there and as a result, the teachers are slowing down the teaching and skipping important concepts. How do I know this? My kid is getting easy As in her AP classes yet doing poorly on the AP exams claiming a lot of the material on the exam was not covered. Not to mention that she always has the less advanced kids in her group projects and has to carry the weight. she just had to draft a research paper and put together a presentation with no help from her group. I saw their contributions and it was bad. very bad. I wish I could post some examples. My kid had to redo everything because in MCPS, it is a collective group grade and if she went with what her peers submitted she would have received a lot grade. Why they allow.some kids to take advanced classes is beyond me. my kids intentionally signed up for tough classes to avoid the riffraff but they are still there.

This sounds like you need to speak to the teacher, counselor and principals at your kids school. Allowing open enrollment and encouraging all kids to reach for harder content does not mean that teachers have to lower the standards or the rigor of a class. It does means that as student do bad, they are provided with the needed feedback and supports to help them succeed. Some of these supports will be from the teacher, some from the school(support classes, tutoring) and other options may be on the kid/family(outside tutoring, additional practice, etc.).

Kids should be allowed to rate the participation/effort out in of their group’s peer and that be factored into the project grade. Also you kid should arrange a conference with their teacher to discuss their concern with the groups participation against the level of expectation for secure a good grade. This is all preparation for the real world.

It's important to provide feedback and supports, but there's only so far that can go. If a student is several grade levels behind in their skill level, it's not going to be possible to remediate that gap plus keep up with ongoing new learning even with feedback and supports. If the student remains in the course, it's going to slow everything down and the student will not thrive either. There needs to be some assessment of kids' ability to take the class before they enroll and some evaluation as to whether they can remain in the course. Pure open enrollment is unlikely to be sustainable without lowering standards and rigor.

Then provide the tough but necessary feedback that the student needs more support than the teacher can provide in class and the student will need to either a) get outside of class tutoring, b) move down to a slower class (honors or on level is fine), c) continue in the class with the understanding that it will not slow down and student is likely risking a low grade. But I don’t see students several grade levels behind pursuing an AP/IB course. Kids in 10th grade reading on a 6th grade level don’t just suddenly sign up for APUSH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have worked for MCPS for a long time. I don't think MCPS has changed, but our county demographics certainly have changed. We have more newcomers with limited to no English language. We have much higher rates of poverty and trauma. Parents who are struggling to keep roofs over their heads, substance abuse, domestic violence, etc. All of these societal problems are spilling into our school buildings and quite frankly, staff are overwhelmed. It's very, very challenging to try and teach or run a building when you have a few kids in each grade-level who are consistently occupying 95% of your bandwidth. These kids didn't ask to be born into crappy conditions but they're in our schools and are having a really tough time despite the best efforts by staff to support their SEL needs.
We have to be honest with ourselves - until the parents (society) gets in a better place, we're going to continue to see the effects in our buildings. The curriculum standards have become harder with CCSS but we've lowered our expectations. Students know that there aren't any real consequences. We don't suspend students because of the school to prison pipeline. Trust me when I tell you, there are kids I would have advocated for suspension years ago but now knowing what they'd do at home, I'd rather them be safe and fed in our building. Admin are basically spending any free moment covering duties, dealing with behavior issues, etc. This gets in the way of them being able to get into classrooms to observe actual teaching and instruction.
Personally, I'm tired of schools and MCPS being blamed for all of the problems that we've created as a society. We aren't private schools - we take whoever comes to enroll and we do the best that we can with limited staff and training in trauma-informed practices.

DP. This 100%. I'm a parent with kids at a MS and HS with high FARMS rates. The staff at these schools are dealing with problems that aren't even related to academics and it doesn't help that MCPS has taken an approach to discipline that provides little to no consequences. The kids who stay out of trouble, come from stable families who prioritize education, and hang out with similar students are barely affected by this. They get good grades, join clubs and do extracurricular activities, take AP and IB classes, take full advantage of the MCPS college and career programs available to them, and will get into good colleges. Unfortunately, the ones with issues that stem from outside the school (poverty, domestic violence, etc.) are going to have a tough time regardless of the MCPS disciplinary approach. All of this is not some breaking news though. No school system can fix society's problems and while no one wants to hear this, at the end of the day- the most important factor in a child's success is their PARENTS.

The sentence I bolded is so true. If the parents aren't properly raising their kids and providing a poor home-life, there is only so much the schools can do. If your kid comes from a stable home and the parents prioritize education, your kid will do fine in MCPS.

I disagree that my kid will do fine. she attends a high FARMS high school. she is taking advanced classes because they are "easy". There are several kids in her classes that shouldn't be there and as a result, the teachers are slowing down the teaching and skipping important concepts. How do I know this? My kid is getting easy As in her AP classes yet doing poorly on the AP exams claiming a lot of the material on the exam was not covered. Not to mention that she always has the less advanced kids in her group projects and has to carry the weight. she just had to draft a research paper and put together a presentation with no help from her group. I saw their contributions and it was bad. very bad. I wish I could post some examples. My kid had to redo everything because in MCPS, it is a collective group grade and if she went with what her peers submitted she would have received a lot grade. Why they allow.some kids to take advanced classes is beyond me. my kids intentionally signed up for tough classes to avoid the riffraff but they are still there.

This sounds like you need to speak to the teacher, counselor and principals at your kids school. Allowing open enrollment and encouraging all kids to reach for harder content does not mean that teachers have to lower the standards or the rigor of a class. It does means that as student do bad, they are provided with the needed feedback and supports to help them succeed. Some of these supports will be from the teacher, some from the school(support classes, tutoring) and other options may be on the kid/family(outside tutoring, additional practice, etc.).

Kids should be allowed to rate the participation/effort out in of their group’s peer and that be factored into the project grade. Also you kid should arrange a conference with their teacher to discuss their concern with the groups participation against the level of expectation for secure a good grade. This is all preparation for the real world.

It's important to provide feedback and supports, but there's only so far that can go. If a student is several grade levels behind in their skill level, it's not going to be possible to remediate that gap plus keep up with ongoing new learning even with feedback and supports. If the student remains in the course, it's going to slow everything down and the student will not thrive either. There needs to be some assessment of kids' ability to take the class before they enroll and some evaluation as to whether they can remain in the course. Pure open enrollment is unlikely to be sustainable without lowering standards and rigor.

Then provide the tough but necessary feedback that the student needs more support than the teacher can provide in class and the student will need to either a) get outside of class tutoring, b) move down to a slower class (honors or on level is fine), c) continue in the class with the understanding that it will not slow down and student is likely risking a low grade. But I don’t see students several grade levels behind pursuing an AP/IB course. Kids in 10th grade reading on a 6th grade level don’t just suddenly sign up for APUSH.

This is actually quite baffling to me too. Every year around this time, the kids at our MCPS HS meet with their counselor to discuss classes they should take the following year. The counselor will advise them on whether or not the classes they want to pursue make sense or if they have the grades and prerequisites to take on a specific class. Also, if the AP teacher has students who clearly shouldn't be in the class, then it's the teacher's RESPONSIBILITY to raise that issue whether it's to the counselor, the principal, parents, etc.

[Anonymous]

Years ago I wasn't a proponent of vouchers, but at this point I've changed my mind.

The current city council will likely fight this. I recommend that parents focus on making this a platform topic at the next election if you want vouchers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Years ago I wasn't a proponent of vouchers, but at this point I've changed my mind.

The current city council will likely fight this. I recommend that parents focus on making this a platform topic at the next election if you want vouchers.

Yes, they would help destroy public education which is a tax burden on us who already pay for privates!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have worked for MCPS for a long time. I don't think MCPS has changed, but our county demographics certainly have changed. We have more newcomers with limited to no English language. We have much higher rates of poverty and trauma. Parents who are struggling to keep roofs over their heads, substance abuse, domestic violence, etc. All of these societal problems are spilling into our school buildings and quite frankly, staff are overwhelmed. It's very, very challenging to try and teach or run a building when you have a few kids in each grade-level who are consistently occupying 95% of your bandwidth. These kids didn't ask to be born into crappy conditions but they're in our schools and are having a really tough time despite the best efforts by staff to support their SEL needs.
We have to be honest with ourselves - until the parents (society) gets in a better place, we're going to continue to see the effects in our buildings. The curriculum standards have become harder with CCSS but we've lowered our expectations. Students know that there aren't any real consequences. We don't suspend students because of the school to prison pipeline. Trust me when I tell you, there are kids I would have advocated for suspension years ago but now knowing what they'd do at home, I'd rather them be safe and fed in our building. Admin are basically spending any free moment covering duties, dealing with behavior issues, etc. This gets in the way of them being able to get into classrooms to observe actual teaching and instruction.
Personally, I'm tired of schools and MCPS being blamed for all of the problems that we've created as a society. We aren't private schools - we take whoever comes to enroll and we do the best that we can with limited staff and training in trauma-informed practices.

DP. This 100%. I'm a parent with kids at a MS and HS with high FARMS rates. The staff at these schools are dealing with problems that aren't even related to academics and it doesn't help that MCPS has taken an approach to discipline that provides little to no consequences. The kids who stay out of trouble, come from stable families who prioritize education, and hang out with similar students are barely affected by this. They get good grades, join clubs and do extracurricular activities, take AP and IB classes, take full advantage of the MCPS college and career programs available to them, and will get into good colleges. Unfortunately, the ones with issues that stem from outside the school (poverty, domestic violence, etc.) are going to have a tough time regardless of the MCPS disciplinary approach. All of this is not some breaking news though. No school system can fix society's problems and while no one wants to hear this, at the end of the day- the most important factor in a child's success is their PARENTS.

The sentence I bolded is so true. If the parents aren't properly raising their kids and providing a poor home-life, there is only so much the schools can do. If your kid comes from a stable home and the parents prioritize education, your kid will do fine in MCPS.

I disagree that my kid will do fine. she attends a high FARMS high school. she is taking advanced classes because they are "easy". There are several kids in her classes that shouldn't be there and as a result, the teachers are slowing down the teaching and skipping important concepts. How do I know this? My kid is getting easy As in her AP classes yet doing poorly on the AP exams claiming a lot of the material on the exam was not covered. Not to mention that she always has the less advanced kids in her group projects and has to carry the weight. she just had to draft a research paper and put together a presentation with no help from her group. I saw their contributions and it was bad. very bad. I wish I could post some examples. My kid had to redo everything because in MCPS, it is a collective group grade and if she went with what her peers submitted she would have received a lot grade. Why they allow.some kids to take advanced classes is beyond me. my kids intentionally signed up for tough classes to avoid the riffraff but they are still there.

This sounds like you need to speak to the teacher, counselor and principals at your kids school. Allowing open enrollment and encouraging all kids to reach for harder content does not mean that teachers have to lower the standards or the rigor of a class. It does means that as student do bad, they are provided with the needed feedback and supports to help them succeed. Some of these supports will be from the teacher, some from the school(support classes, tutoring) and other options may be on the kid/family(outside tutoring, additional practice, etc.).

Kids should be allowed to rate the participation/effort out in of their group’s peer and that be factored into the project grade. Also you kid should arrange a conference with their teacher to discuss their concern with the groups participation against the level of expectation for secure a good grade. This is all preparation for the real world.

It's important to provide feedback and supports, but there's only so far that can go. If a student is several grade levels behind in their skill level, it's not going to be possible to remediate that gap plus keep up with ongoing new learning even with feedback and supports. If the student remains in the course, it's going to slow everything down and the student will not thrive either. There needs to be some assessment of kids' ability to take the class before they enroll and some evaluation as to whether they can remain in the course. Pure open enrollment is unlikely to be sustainable without lowering standards and rigor.

Then provide the tough but necessary feedback that the student needs more support than the teacher can provide in class and the student will need to either a) get outside of class tutoring, b) move down to a slower class (honors or on level is fine), c) continue in the class with the understanding that it will not slow down and student is likely risking a low grade. But I don’t see students several grade levels behind pursuing an AP/IB course. Kids in 10th grade reading on a 6th grade level don’t just suddenly sign up for APUSH.

It happens at our high school. We are at a nonW high school with a high FARMS/ESOL rate. Definitely kids in APUSH who should not be there. Honors History is remedial, basically.

Our pass rates for the AP exam are not that great, unsurprisingly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I hear people say that Arlington and MoCo are declining, what I really hear is "a public good is now being consumed by members of the public who aren't as rich and privileged as I would like." Public education is a public good. You don't get to keep the people who need it the most out. Private schools were designed for people just like you.

Exactly, the county is more or less the same or even better today but demographics are very different than 20 years ago which presents a different set of challenges. Nevertheless, the same kid can do just as well today as twenty years ago. There are many wonderful opportunities available for anyone who is interested so this whole sky is falling narrative is trash.

BINGO!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have worked for MCPS for a long time. I don't think MCPS has changed, but our county demographics certainly have changed. We have more newcomers with limited to no English language. We have much higher rates of poverty and trauma. Parents who are struggling to keep roofs over their heads, substance abuse, domestic violence, etc. All of these societal problems are spilling into our school buildings and quite frankly, staff are overwhelmed. It's very, very challenging to try and teach or run a building when you have a few kids in each grade-level who are consistently occupying 95% of your bandwidth. These kids didn't ask to be born into crappy conditions but they're in our schools and are having a really tough time despite the best efforts by staff to support their SEL needs.
We have to be honest with ourselves - until the parents (society) gets in a better place, we're going to continue to see the effects in our buildings. The curriculum standards have become harder with CCSS but we've lowered our expectations. Students know that there aren't any real consequences. We don't suspend students because of the school to prison pipeline. Trust me when I tell you, there are kids I would have advocated for suspension years ago but now knowing what they'd do at home, I'd rather them be safe and fed in our building. Admin are basically spending any free moment covering duties, dealing with behavior issues, etc. This gets in the way of them being able to get into classrooms to observe actual teaching and instruction.
Personally, I'm tired of schools and MCPS being blamed for all of the problems that we've created as a society. We aren't private schools - we take whoever comes to enroll and we do the best that we can with limited staff and training in trauma-informed practices.

DP. This 100%. I'm a parent with kids at a MS and HS with high FARMS rates. The staff at these schools are dealing with problems that aren't even related to academics and it doesn't help that MCPS has taken an approach to discipline that provides little to no consequences. The kids who stay out of trouble, come from stable families who prioritize education, and hang out with similar students are barely affected by this. They get good grades, join clubs and do extracurricular activities, take AP and IB classes, take full advantage of the MCPS college and career programs available to them, and will get into good colleges. Unfortunately, the ones with issues that stem from outside the school (poverty, domestic violence, etc.) are going to have a tough time regardless of the MCPS disciplinary approach. All of this is not some breaking news though. No school system can fix society's problems and while no one wants to hear this, at the end of the day- the most important factor in a child's success is their PARENTS.

The sentence I bolded is so true. If the parents aren't properly raising their kids and providing a poor home-life, there is only so much the schools can do. If your kid comes from a stable home and the parents prioritize education, your kid will do fine in MCPS.

I disagree that my kid will do fine. she attends a high FARMS high school. she is taking advanced classes because they are "easy". There are several kids in her classes that shouldn't be there and as a result, the teachers are slowing down the teaching and skipping important concepts. How do I know this? My kid is getting easy As in her AP classes yet doing poorly on the AP exams claiming a lot of the material on the exam was not covered. Not to mention that she always has the less advanced kids in her group projects and has to carry the weight. she just had to draft a research paper and put together a presentation with no help from her group. I saw their contributions and it was bad. very bad. I wish I could post some examples. My kid had to redo everything because in MCPS, it is a collective group grade and if she went with what her peers submitted she would have received a lot grade. Why they allow.some kids to take advanced classes is beyond me. my kids intentionally signed up for tough classes to avoid the riffraff but they are still there.

I'm curious what school this is. What school allows the barely literate to take AP classes?

DP

Where does the PP say that the students are ‘barely literate’?

I will agree with what she is saying. My kid had that experience in 8th grade Advanced English and it was terrible.

I did - up above, and I am an AP teacher. Many teachers report 4th and 5th grade reading levels in AP English this year.

I'm stunned at how my son's AP English teacher lets my son get away with poor grammar and sloppy writing. It seems like the standards have been relaxed, which I could see for on-level classes, but not AP level.

Not surprising.

MS does nothing to prepare kids for more challenging HS courses.
AP classes seem to no longer prepare kids to pass the AP exams and prepare for college. There is a reason why there are remedial classes in some colleges.

I understand the intentions for lowering the bar, but no matter how good the intentions are, it's not the way to help these kids to prepare for college or the real world. They aren't doing these kids any favor.

[Anonymous]

There have been remedial classes "in some colleges" for decades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Years ago I wasn't a proponent of vouchers, but at this point I've changed my mind.

The current city council will likely fight this. I recommend that parents focus on making this a platform topic at the next election if you want vouchers.

Who? This is the Montgomery County Public Schools forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Years ago I wasn't a proponent of vouchers, but at this point I've changed my mind.

The current city council will likely fight this. I recommend that parents focus on making this a platform topic at the next election if you want vouchers.

And where are you trolling from? We don't have a city council to fight this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Years ago I wasn't a proponent of vouchers, but at this point I've changed my mind.

The current city council will likely fight this. I recommend that parents focus on making this a platform topic at the next election if you want vouchers.

Anonymous wrote:And where are you trolling from? We don't have a city council to fight this.

Cultural warriors know no bounds!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have worked for MCPS for a long time. I don't think MCPS has changed, but our county demographics certainly have changed. We have more newcomers with limited to no English language. We have much higher rates of poverty and trauma. Parents who are struggling to keep roofs over their heads, substance abuse, domestic violence, etc. All of these societal problems are spilling into our school buildings and quite frankly, staff are overwhelmed. It's very, very challenging to try and teach or run a building when you have a few kids in each grade-level who are consistently occupying 95% of your bandwidth. These kids didn't ask to be born into crappy conditions but they're in our schools and are having a really tough time despite the best efforts by staff to support their SEL needs.
We have to be honest with ourselves - until the parents (society) gets in a better place, we're going to continue to see the effects in our buildings. The curriculum standards have become harder with CCSS but we've lowered our expectations. Students know that there aren't any real consequences. We don't suspend students because of the school to prison pipeline. Trust me when I tell you, there are kids I would have advocated for suspension years ago but now knowing what they'd do at home, I'd rather them be safe and fed in our building. Admin are basically spending any free moment covering duties, dealing with behavior issues, etc. This gets in the way of them being able to get into classrooms to observe actual teaching and instruction.
Personally, I'm tired of schools and MCPS being blamed for all of the problems that we've created as a society. We aren't private schools - we take whoever comes to enroll and we do the best that we can with limited staff and training in trauma-informed practices.

DP. This 100%. I'm a parent with kids at a MS and HS with high FARMS rates. The staff at these schools are dealing with problems that aren't even related to academics and it doesn't help that MCPS has taken an approach to discipline that provides little to no consequences. The kids who stay out of trouble, come from stable families who prioritize education, and hang out with similar students are barely affected by this. They get good grades, join clubs and do extracurricular activities, take AP and IB classes, take full advantage of the MCPS college and career programs available to them, and will get into good colleges. Unfortunately, the ones with issues that stem from outside the school (poverty, domestic violence, etc.) are going to have a tough time regardless of the MCPS disciplinary approach. All of this is not some breaking news though. No school system can fix society's problems and while no one wants to hear this, at the end of the day- the most important factor in a child's success is their PARENTS.

The sentence I bolded is so true. If the parents aren't properly raising their kids and providing a poor home-life, there is only so much the schools can do. If your kid comes from a stable home and the parents prioritize education, your kid will do fine in MCPS.

I disagree that my kid will do fine. she attends a high FARMS high school. she is taking advanced classes because they are "easy". There are several kids in her classes that shouldn't be there and as a result, the teachers are slowing down the teaching and skipping important concepts. How do I know this? My kid is getting easy As in her AP classes yet doing poorly on the AP exams claiming a lot of the material on the exam was not covered. Not to mention that she always has the less advanced kids in her group projects and has to carry the weight. she just had to draft a research paper and put together a presentation with no help from her group. I saw their contributions and it was bad. very bad. I wish I could post some examples. My kid had to redo everything because in MCPS, it is a collective group grade and if she went with what her peers submitted she would have received a lot grade. Why they allow.some kids to take advanced classes is beyond me. my kids intentionally signed up for tough classes to avoid the riffraff but they are still there.

I'm curious what school this is. What school allows the barely literate to take AP classes?

DP

Where does the PP say that the students are ‘barely literate’?

I will agree with what she is saying. My kid had that experience in 8th grade Advanced English and it was terrible.

I did - up above, and I am an AP teacher. Many teachers report 4th and 5th grade reading levels in AP English this year.

I'm stunned at how my son's AP English teacher lets my son get away with poor grammar and sloppy writing. It seems like the standards have been relaxed, which I could see for on-level classes, but not AP level.

When I was at Whitman 30+ years ago it was also pretty bad, but it's good to know some things haven't changed! I ended up taking freshman English in the summer after my sophomore year of HS at UMDCP. This helped me.