Sister on and off drugs at college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is your mother? Also, what happened to your sister, what pain is she trying to numb with the drugs?

“Blame the parents for everything” pp has entered the room. Because it’s never normal teenage social anxiety leading to experimentation leading to much more.

She’s not blaming the parents but she most likely was raped at some point.

Get help for projecting horrible things onto anonymous people on the interwebs.

Statistics is your friend.

There is a huge chance she has trauma. Addiction is a disease in response to something underlying, perhaps she is bipolar or schizophrenic but my $ is on trauma.

You, my lady, are the one projecting.

Oh good. Pp has diagnosed a complete stranger and recommended trauma therapy. Ruling out so many other causes, like untreated depression and anxiety or bad choice of friends.

DCUM never fails to disappoint.

What do you think is causing anxiety and depression.

About 70% of addicted adults have trauma in their past.

Just playing the odds.

Anxiety and depression are very often genetic. They run in families, and certainly in DH’s. If you don’t even know this much, you have no business giving advice over the internet.

But you can diagnose her with anxiety and depression?

Of course not. I’m not diagnosing her with anything. I want a professional to do that.

Great but find one that specializes in trauma.

And what if the cause is the other 30% even you grudgingly admit is out there? Or one of the many other reasons the Mayo Clinic cites? OP’s sister is SOL because your “hunch” is wrong and her genetic depression/anxiety goes untreated? You suck. You really suck.

I’m sure a trauma specialist can rule out trauma.

You suck because you are so bent out of shake about the realization that most addicts had trauma in their past.

Remember tgat next time you think fat people just need to eat less.

So if a trauma specialist rules out trauma, then OP's sister has wasted several months with an inappropriate therapist. Do you think that would be a good outcome?

OP's sister needs an ADDICTION therapist. Who will know how to rule trauma in or out, or any other cause, and make the appropriate referrals. This is basic stuff.

And if you go to a therapist that doesn’t understand trauma you could get a misdiagnosis and spin your wheels for decades.

Of course an ADDICTION therapist is trained to look for all possible causes of addiction, and may also be able to provide trauma therapy if that's warranted, or quickly provide a referral. An ADDICTION therapist will be able to recommend the best inpatient and outpatient programs for OP's sister's needs. An ADDICTION therapist will look for other causes as well (and there could be multiple causes or a single very different cause), and make a referral to a psychiatrist for SSRIs/SSNIs or other meds that could help treat underlying causes. Also, an ADDICTION therapist will help OP's family address other issues, like enabling OP's sister.

None of which a trauma therapist is necessarily able to provide. It's surprising you think an ADDICTION therapist only talks about the addiction itself instead of addressing the root causes, but that's exactly what they DO do. ADDICTION therapists provide talk therapy to address the underlying causes, in addition to all the other services I mentioned above. I have experience with ADDICTION therapy for a family member. This is yet another indication that you're not qualified to make recommendations on this issue.

This is a no-brainer.

Talk therapy for addiction is useless.

There's no recovery from addiction without addressing the underlying causes. Just sending someone to rehab won't accomplish anything if they come out and still need to deal with their depression or whatever. You must be the poster who thinks no addict can ever recover.

They need to do CBT, DBT and/or EMDR not talk therapy

Some addiction therapists are trained to offer CBT and DBT. You really know nothing about therapy except perhaps for your interactions with your own trauma therapist (who, btw, may know nothing about CBT or DBT). You need to sit down.

Sounds like you are an addict who thinks 12 steps is the only way because it saved your soul.

Oh, now it's clear: you're a troll. A troll who isn't shy about offering horrible advice to internet strangers or (lesser offensive) resorting to childish insults.

If you're not a troll, ask your trauma therapist about projecting your own experience onto every total stranger you meet on DCUM. And ask her about making up strange insults about anyone who disagrees with you. No, I'm not in recovery. Your behavior is not healthy.

12 step programs have a 15% success rate. They say 50% but that is for 1 year. It’s a terrible model.

I don’t have trauma but you just read OP’s post … 2 kids in college. Something’s rotten in Denmark.

Who recommended a 12-step program in isolation from therapy and/or inpatient/outpatient? Nobody. You made that up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is your mother? Also, what happened to your sister, what pain is she trying to numb with the drugs?

“Blame the parents for everything” pp has entered the room. Because it’s never normal teenage social anxiety leading to experimentation leading to much more.

She’s not blaming the parents but she most likely was raped at some point.

Get help for projecting horrible things onto anonymous people on the interwebs.

Statistics is your friend.

There is a huge chance she has trauma. Addiction is a disease in response to something underlying, perhaps she is bipolar or schizophrenic but my $ is on trauma.

You, my lady, are the one projecting.

Oh good. Pp has diagnosed a complete stranger and recommended trauma therapy. Ruling out so many other causes, like untreated depression and anxiety or bad choice of friends.

DCUM never fails to disappoint.

What do you think is causing anxiety and depression.

About 70% of addicted adults have trauma in their past.

Just playing the odds.

Anxiety and depression are very often genetic. They run in families, and certainly in DH’s. If you don’t even know this much, you have no business giving advice over the internet.

But you can diagnose her with anxiety and depression?

Of course not. I’m not diagnosing her with anything. I want a professional to do that.

Great but find one that specializes in trauma.

And what if the cause is the other 30% even you grudgingly admit is out there? Or one of the many other reasons the Mayo Clinic cites? OP’s sister is SOL because your “hunch” is wrong and her genetic depression/anxiety goes untreated? You suck. You really suck.

I’m sure a trauma specialist can rule out trauma.

You suck because you are so bent out of shake about the realization that most addicts had trauma in their past.

Remember tgat next time you think fat people just need to eat less.

So if a trauma specialist rules out trauma, then OP's sister has wasted several months with an inappropriate therapist. Do you think that would be a good outcome?

OP's sister needs an ADDICTION therapist. Who will know how to rule trauma in or out, or any other cause, and make the appropriate referrals. This is basic stuff.

And if you go to a therapist that doesn’t understand trauma you could get a misdiagnosis and spin your wheels for decades.

Of course an ADDICTION therapist is trained to look for all possible causes of addiction, and may also be able to provide trauma therapy if that's warranted, or quickly provide a referral. An ADDICTION therapist will be able to recommend the best inpatient and outpatient programs for OP's sister's needs. An ADDICTION therapist will look for other causes as well (and there could be multiple causes or a single very different cause), and make a referral to a psychiatrist for SSRIs/SSNIs or other meds that could help treat underlying causes. Also, an ADDICTION therapist will help OP's family address other issues, like enabling OP's sister.

None of which a trauma therapist is necessarily able to provide. It's surprising you think an ADDICTION therapist only talks about the addiction itself instead of addressing the root causes, but that's exactly what they DO do. ADDICTION therapists provide talk therapy to address the underlying causes, in addition to all the other services I mentioned above. I have experience with ADDICTION therapy for a family member. This is yet another indication that you're not qualified to make recommendations on this issue.

This is a no-brainer.

Talk therapy for addiction is useless.

Talk therapy addresses the underlying causes of addiction. Including for depression or trauma or anxiety or low self-esteem or grief. If you think it's useless for addiction, you must think it's useless for anything.

It’s good for mildly lost souls who need direction.

This is such a weird proxy fight over what therapy means and/or should be. Unfortunately you have no clue about the different types of therapists.

OP, please ignore (a) the people who say you need a trauma therapist instead of an addiction therapist, and (b) the naysayers who insist that nothing could ever work. They're both ignorant and wrong.

Ignore the people that are likely (70% chance) right and listen to the people caught up in the addiction mill process? No.

Clearly your trauma therapist hasn't helped you understand that you're misunderstanding addiction and addiction protocols, projecting your own issues onto others, fabricating wild claims about complete strangers.

You need to find a new therapist, preferably one whose practice isn't limited to trauma.

You need a therapist to stop attacking people online for giving advice. If you don’t like it move on.

Lots of us get concerned when bad advice is offered to somebody who is vulnerable and new to dealing with issues like addiction. As you yourself apparently have no experience with addiction among your family or friends, you need to sit down.

[Anonymous]

I feel sad that my kids can't have an aunt

That's it. And they will find others to look up to. You are not Your Sister's Keeper. You have *got* to guard against these sister-issues taking up so much of your mental energy that they negatively impact your own family (hint: they probably already are ... so stop that)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is your mother? Also, what happened to your sister, what pain is she trying to numb with the drugs?

“Blame the parents for everything” pp has entered the room. Because it’s never normal teenage social anxiety leading to experimentation leading to much more.

She’s not blaming the parents but she most likely was raped at some point.

Get help for projecting horrible things onto anonymous people on the interwebs.

Statistics is your friend.

There is a huge chance she has trauma. Addiction is a disease in response to something underlying, perhaps she is bipolar or schizophrenic but my $ is on trauma.

You, my lady, are the one projecting.

Oh good. Pp has diagnosed a complete stranger and recommended trauma therapy. Ruling out so many other causes, like untreated depression and anxiety or bad choice of friends.

DCUM never fails to disappoint.

What do you think is causing anxiety and depression.

About 70% of addicted adults have trauma in their past.

Just playing the odds.

Anxiety and depression are very often genetic. They run in families, and certainly in DH’s. If you don’t even know this much, you have no business giving advice over the internet.

But you can diagnose her with anxiety and depression?

Of course not. I’m not diagnosing her with anything. I want a professional to do that.

Great but find one that specializes in trauma.

And what if the cause is the other 30% even you grudgingly admit is out there? Or one of the many other reasons the Mayo Clinic cites? OP’s sister is SOL because your “hunch” is wrong and her genetic depression/anxiety goes untreated? You suck. You really suck.

I’m sure a trauma specialist can rule out trauma.

You suck because you are so bent out of shake about the realization that most addicts had trauma in their past.

Remember tgat next time you think fat people just need to eat less.

So if a trauma specialist rules out trauma, then OP's sister has wasted several months with an inappropriate therapist. Do you think that would be a good outcome?

OP's sister needs an ADDICTION therapist. Who will know how to rule trauma in or out, or any other cause, and make the appropriate referrals. This is basic stuff.

And if you go to a therapist that doesn’t understand trauma you could get a misdiagnosis and spin your wheels for decades.

Of course an ADDICTION therapist is trained to look for all possible causes of addiction, and may also be able to provide trauma therapy if that's warranted, or quickly provide a referral. An ADDICTION therapist will be able to recommend the best inpatient and outpatient programs for OP's sister's needs. An ADDICTION therapist will look for other causes as well (and there could be multiple causes or a single very different cause), and make a referral to a psychiatrist for SSRIs/SSNIs or other meds that could help treat underlying causes. Also, an ADDICTION therapist will help OP's family address other issues, like enabling OP's sister.

None of which a trauma therapist is necessarily able to provide. It's surprising you think an ADDICTION therapist only talks about the addiction itself instead of addressing the root causes, but that's exactly what they DO do. ADDICTION therapists provide talk therapy to address the underlying causes, in addition to all the other services I mentioned above. I have experience with ADDICTION therapy for a family member. This is yet another indication that you're not qualified to make recommendations on this issue.

This is a no-brainer.

Talk therapy for addiction is useless.

Talk therapy addresses the underlying causes of addiction. Including for depression or trauma or anxiety or low self-esteem or grief. If you think it's useless for addiction, you must think it's useless for anything.

It’s good for mildly lost souls who need direction.

This is such a weird proxy fight over what therapy means and/or should be. Unfortunately you have no clue about the different types of therapists.

OP, please ignore (a) the people who say you need a trauma therapist instead of an addiction therapist, and (b) the naysayers who insist that nothing could ever work. They're both ignorant and wrong.

Ignore the people that are likely (70% chance) right and listen to the people caught up in the addiction mill process? No.

Clearly your trauma therapist hasn't helped you understand that you're misunderstanding addiction and addiction protocols, projecting your own issues onto others, fabricating wild claims about complete strangers.

You need to find a new therapist, preferably one whose practice isn't limited to trauma.

You need a therapist to stop attacking people online for giving advice. If you don’t like it move on.

Lots of us get concerned when bad advice is offered to somebody who is vulnerable and new to dealing with issues like addiction. As you yourself apparently have no experience with addiction among your family or friends, you need to sit down.

You seem to personally connected to addition to be unbiased ... reread OP's post. Really, you read that and it does not scream family trauma all over the place.

You know who needs therapy too, OP. 2 kids before college, jealous of dad helping sister, saying she was "even lazy as a child" ... come on man can you read.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is your mother? Also, what happened to your sister, what pain is she trying to numb with the drugs?

“Blame the parents for everything” pp has entered the room. Because it’s never normal teenage social anxiety leading to experimentation leading to much more.

She’s not blaming the parents but she most likely was raped at some point.

Get help for projecting horrible things onto anonymous people on the interwebs.

Statistics is your friend.

There is a huge chance she has trauma. Addiction is a disease in response to something underlying, perhaps she is bipolar or schizophrenic but my $ is on trauma.

You, my lady, are the one projecting.

Oh good. Pp has diagnosed a complete stranger and recommended trauma therapy. Ruling out so many other causes, like untreated depression and anxiety or bad choice of friends.

DCUM never fails to disappoint.

What do you think is causing anxiety and depression.

About 70% of addicted adults have trauma in their past.

Just playing the odds.

Anxiety and depression are very often genetic. They run in families, and certainly in DH’s. If you don’t even know this much, you have no business giving advice over the internet.

But you can diagnose her with anxiety and depression?

Of course not. I’m not diagnosing her with anything. I want a professional to do that.

Great but find one that specializes in trauma.

And what if the cause is the other 30% even you grudgingly admit is out there? Or one of the many other reasons the Mayo Clinic cites? OP’s sister is SOL because your “hunch” is wrong and her genetic depression/anxiety goes untreated? You suck. You really suck.

I’m sure a trauma specialist can rule out trauma.

You suck because you are so bent out of shake about the realization that most addicts had trauma in their past.

Remember tgat next time you think fat people just need to eat less.

So if a trauma specialist rules out trauma, then OP's sister has wasted several months with an inappropriate therapist. Do you think that would be a good outcome?

OP's sister needs an ADDICTION therapist. Who will know how to rule trauma in or out, or any other cause, and make the appropriate referrals. This is basic stuff.

And if you go to a therapist that doesn’t understand trauma you could get a misdiagnosis and spin your wheels for decades.

Of course an ADDICTION therapist is trained to look for all possible causes of addiction, and may also be able to provide trauma therapy if that's warranted, or quickly provide a referral. An ADDICTION therapist will be able to recommend the best inpatient and outpatient programs for OP's sister's needs. An ADDICTION therapist will look for other causes as well (and there could be multiple causes or a single very different cause), and make a referral to a psychiatrist for SSRIs/SSNIs or other meds that could help treat underlying causes. Also, an ADDICTION therapist will help OP's family address other issues, like enabling OP's sister.

None of which a trauma therapist is necessarily able to provide. It's surprising you think an ADDICTION therapist only talks about the addiction itself instead of addressing the root causes, but that's exactly what they DO do. ADDICTION therapists provide talk therapy to address the underlying causes, in addition to all the other services I mentioned above. I have experience with ADDICTION therapy for a family member. This is yet another indication that you're not qualified to make recommendations on this issue.

This is a no-brainer.

Talk therapy for addiction is useless.

Talk therapy addresses the underlying causes of addiction. Including for depression or trauma or anxiety or low self-esteem or grief. If you think it's useless for addiction, you must think it's useless for anything.

It’s good for mildly lost souls who need direction.

This is such a weird proxy fight over what therapy means and/or should be. Unfortunately you have no clue about the different types of therapists.

OP, please ignore (a) the people who say you need a trauma therapist instead of an addiction therapist, and (b) the naysayers who insist that nothing could ever work. They're both ignorant and wrong.

Ignore the people that are likely (70% chance) right and listen to the people caught up in the addiction mill process? No.

Clearly your trauma therapist hasn't helped you understand that you're misunderstanding addiction and addiction protocols, projecting your own issues onto others, fabricating wild claims about complete strangers.

You need to find a new therapist, preferably one whose practice isn't limited to trauma.

You need a therapist to stop attacking people online for giving advice. If you don’t like it move on.

Lots of us get concerned when bad advice is offered to somebody who is vulnerable and new to dealing with issues like addiction. As you yourself apparently have no experience with addiction among your family or friends, you need to sit down.

You seem to personally connected to addition to be unbiased ... reread OP's post. Really, you read that and it does not scream family trauma all over the place.

You know who needs therapy too, OP. 2 kids before college, jealous of dad helping sister, saying she was "even lazy as a child" ... come on man can you read.

Of course OP’s post suggests family trauma. Nobody ever said it didn’t. Although that’s not definitive—lots of people have kids before going to college, there’s no shame in that. And your other comments about sister jealousy don’t suggest trauma at all. Even by your standards (and your links weren’t persuasive), there’s a 30% change trauma therapy would be completely inappropriate.

That doesn’t mean a trauma therapist is the best person to treat an addict. No. An addiction therapist is hands-down the best person to help, because many are also trained to deal with trauma if appropriate, and they can also provide a whole suite of services from facilitating interventions, recommending I/O facilities, coordinating with a Psychiatrist re meds, and providing family therapy. You’re too close to your own trauma to see what’s helpful to others who are different from you. Or you’re a trauma therapist looking for business, and that’s why you’re on every thread flogging trauma.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is your mother? Also, what happened to your sister, what pain is she trying to numb with the drugs?

“Blame the parents for everything” pp has entered the room. Because it’s never normal teenage social anxiety leading to experimentation leading to much more.

She’s not blaming the parents but she most likely was raped at some point.

Get help for projecting horrible things onto anonymous people on the interwebs.

Statistics is your friend.

There is a huge chance she has trauma. Addiction is a disease in response to something underlying, perhaps she is bipolar or schizophrenic but my $ is on trauma.

You, my lady, are the one projecting.

Oh good. Pp has diagnosed a complete stranger and recommended trauma therapy. Ruling out so many other causes, like untreated depression and anxiety or bad choice of friends.

DCUM never fails to disappoint.

What do you think is causing anxiety and depression.

About 70% of addicted adults have trauma in their past.

Just playing the odds.

Anxiety and depression are very often genetic. They run in families, and certainly in DH’s. If you don’t even know this much, you have no business giving advice over the internet.

But you can diagnose her with anxiety and depression?

Of course not. I’m not diagnosing her with anything. I want a professional to do that.

Great but find one that specializes in trauma.

And what if the cause is the other 30% even you grudgingly admit is out there? Or one of the many other reasons the Mayo Clinic cites? OP’s sister is SOL because your “hunch” is wrong and her genetic depression/anxiety goes untreated? You suck. You really suck.

I’m sure a trauma specialist can rule out trauma.

You suck because you are so bent out of shake about the realization that most addicts had trauma in their past.

Remember tgat next time you think fat people just need to eat less.

So if a trauma specialist rules out trauma, then OP's sister has wasted several months with an inappropriate therapist. Do you think that would be a good outcome?

OP's sister needs an ADDICTION therapist. Who will know how to rule trauma in or out, or any other cause, and make the appropriate referrals. This is basic stuff.

And if you go to a therapist that doesn’t understand trauma you could get a misdiagnosis and spin your wheels for decades.

Of course an ADDICTION therapist is trained to look for all possible causes of addiction, and may also be able to provide trauma therapy if that's warranted, or quickly provide a referral. An ADDICTION therapist will be able to recommend the best inpatient and outpatient programs for OP's sister's needs. An ADDICTION therapist will look for other causes as well (and there could be multiple causes or a single very different cause), and make a referral to a psychiatrist for SSRIs/SSNIs or other meds that could help treat underlying causes. Also, an ADDICTION therapist will help OP's family address other issues, like enabling OP's sister.

None of which a trauma therapist is necessarily able to provide. It's surprising you think an ADDICTION therapist only talks about the addiction itself instead of addressing the root causes, but that's exactly what they DO do. ADDICTION therapists provide talk therapy to address the underlying causes, in addition to all the other services I mentioned above. I have experience with ADDICTION therapy for a family member. This is yet another indication that you're not qualified to make recommendations on this issue.

This is a no-brainer.

Talk therapy for addiction is useless.

Talk therapy addresses the underlying causes of addiction. Including for depression or trauma or anxiety or low self-esteem or grief. If you think it's useless for addiction, you must think it's useless for anything.

It’s good for mildly lost souls who need direction.

This is such a weird proxy fight over what therapy means and/or should be. Unfortunately you have no clue about the different types of therapists.

OP, please ignore (a) the people who say you need a trauma therapist instead of an addiction therapist, and (b) the naysayers who insist that nothing could ever work. They're both ignorant and wrong.

Ignore the people that are likely (70% chance) right and listen to the people caught up in the addiction mill process? No.

Clearly your trauma therapist hasn't helped you understand that you're misunderstanding addiction and addiction protocols, projecting your own issues onto others, fabricating wild claims about complete strangers.

You need to find a new therapist, preferably one whose practice isn't limited to trauma.

You need a therapist to stop attacking people online for giving advice. If you don’t like it move on.

Lots of us get concerned when bad advice is offered to somebody who is vulnerable and new to dealing with issues like addiction. As you yourself apparently have no experience with addiction among your family or friends, you need to sit down.

You seem to personally connected to addition to be unbiased ... reread OP's post. Really, you read that and it does not scream family trauma all over the place.

You know who needs therapy too, OP. 2 kids before college, jealous of dad helping sister, saying she was "even lazy as a child" ... come on man can you read.

Having two kids before college is not indicative of trauma. Way to try to shame OP. What’s wrong with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is your mother? Also, what happened to your sister, what pain is she trying to numb with the drugs?

“Blame the parents for everything” pp has entered the room. Because it’s never normal teenage social anxiety leading to experimentation leading to much more.

She’s not blaming the parents but she most likely was raped at some point.

Get help for projecting horrible things onto anonymous people on the interwebs.

Statistics is your friend.

There is a huge chance she has trauma. Addiction is a disease in response to something underlying, perhaps she is bipolar or schizophrenic but my $ is on trauma.

You, my lady, are the one projecting.

Oh good. Pp has diagnosed a complete stranger and recommended trauma therapy. Ruling out so many other causes, like untreated depression and anxiety or bad choice of friends.

DCUM never fails to disappoint.

What do you think is causing anxiety and depression.

About 70% of addicted adults have trauma in their past.

Just playing the odds.

Anxiety and depression are very often genetic. They run in families, and certainly in DH’s. If you don’t even know this much, you have no business giving advice over the internet.

But you can diagnose her with anxiety and depression?

Of course not. I’m not diagnosing her with anything. I want a professional to do that.

Great but find one that specializes in trauma.

And what if the cause is the other 30% even you grudgingly admit is out there? Or one of the many other reasons the Mayo Clinic cites? OP’s sister is SOL because your “hunch” is wrong and her genetic depression/anxiety goes untreated? You suck. You really suck.

I’m sure a trauma specialist can rule out trauma.

You suck because you are so bent out of shake about the realization that most addicts had trauma in their past.

Remember tgat next time you think fat people just need to eat less.

So if a trauma specialist rules out trauma, then OP's sister has wasted several months with an inappropriate therapist. Do you think that would be a good outcome?

OP's sister needs an ADDICTION therapist. Who will know how to rule trauma in or out, or any other cause, and make the appropriate referrals. This is basic stuff.

And if you go to a therapist that doesn’t understand trauma you could get a misdiagnosis and spin your wheels for decades.

Of course an ADDICTION therapist is trained to look for all possible causes of addiction, and may also be able to provide trauma therapy if that's warranted, or quickly provide a referral. An ADDICTION therapist will be able to recommend the best inpatient and outpatient programs for OP's sister's needs. An ADDICTION therapist will look for other causes as well (and there could be multiple causes or a single very different cause), and make a referral to a psychiatrist for SSRIs/SSNIs or other meds that could help treat underlying causes. Also, an ADDICTION therapist will help OP's family address other issues, like enabling OP's sister.

None of which a trauma therapist is necessarily able to provide. It's surprising you think an ADDICTION therapist only talks about the addiction itself instead of addressing the root causes, but that's exactly what they DO do. ADDICTION therapists provide talk therapy to address the underlying causes, in addition to all the other services I mentioned above. I have experience with ADDICTION therapy for a family member. This is yet another indication that you're not qualified to make recommendations on this issue.

This is a no-brainer.

Talk therapy for addiction is useless.

Talk therapy addresses the underlying causes of addiction. Including for depression or trauma or anxiety or low self-esteem or grief. If you think it's useless for addiction, you must think it's useless for anything.

It’s good for mildly lost souls who need direction.

This is such a weird proxy fight over what therapy means and/or should be. Unfortunately you have no clue about the different types of therapists.

OP, please ignore (a) the people who say you need a trauma therapist instead of an addiction therapist, and (b) the naysayers who insist that nothing could ever work. They're both ignorant and wrong.

Ignore the people that are likely (70% chance) right and listen to the people caught up in the addiction mill process? No.

Clearly your trauma therapist hasn't helped you understand that you're misunderstanding addiction and addiction protocols, projecting your own issues onto others, fabricating wild claims about complete strangers.

You need to find a new therapist, preferably one whose practice isn't limited to trauma.

You need a therapist to stop attacking people online for giving advice. If you don’t like it move on.

Lots of us get concerned when bad advice is offered to somebody who is vulnerable and new to dealing with issues like addiction. As you yourself apparently have no experience with addiction among your family or friends, you need to sit down.

You seem to personally connected to addition to be unbiased ... reread OP's post. Really, you read that and it does not scream family trauma all over the place.

You know who needs therapy too, OP. 2 kids before college, jealous of dad helping sister, saying she was "even lazy as a child" ... come on man can you read.

Having two kids before college is not indicative of trauma. Way to try to shame OP. What’s wrong with you.

Yes it is. You would flip out if your daughter had kids while going to college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is your mother? Also, what happened to your sister, what pain is she trying to numb with the drugs?

“Blame the parents for everything” pp has entered the room. Because it’s never normal teenage social anxiety leading to experimentation leading to much more.

She’s not blaming the parents but she most likely was raped at some point.

Get help for projecting horrible things onto anonymous people on the interwebs.

Statistics is your friend.

There is a huge chance she has trauma. Addiction is a disease in response to something underlying, perhaps she is bipolar or schizophrenic but my $ is on trauma.

You, my lady, are the one projecting.

Oh good. Pp has diagnosed a complete stranger and recommended trauma therapy. Ruling out so many other causes, like untreated depression and anxiety or bad choice of friends.

DCUM never fails to disappoint.

What do you think is causing anxiety and depression.

About 70% of addicted adults have trauma in their past.

Just playing the odds.

Anxiety and depression are very often genetic. They run in families, and certainly in DH’s. If you don’t even know this much, you have no business giving advice over the internet.

But you can diagnose her with anxiety and depression?

Of course not. I’m not diagnosing her with anything. I want a professional to do that.

Great but find one that specializes in trauma.

And what if the cause is the other 30% even you grudgingly admit is out there? Or one of the many other reasons the Mayo Clinic cites? OP’s sister is SOL because your “hunch” is wrong and her genetic depression/anxiety goes untreated? You suck. You really suck.

I’m sure a trauma specialist can rule out trauma.

You suck because you are so bent out of shake about the realization that most addicts had trauma in their past.

Remember tgat next time you think fat people just need to eat less.

So if a trauma specialist rules out trauma, then OP's sister has wasted several months with an inappropriate therapist. Do you think that would be a good outcome?

OP's sister needs an ADDICTION therapist. Who will know how to rule trauma in or out, or any other cause, and make the appropriate referrals. This is basic stuff.

And if you go to a therapist that doesn’t understand trauma you could get a misdiagnosis and spin your wheels for decades.

Of course an ADDICTION therapist is trained to look for all possible causes of addiction, and may also be able to provide trauma therapy if that's warranted, or quickly provide a referral. An ADDICTION therapist will be able to recommend the best inpatient and outpatient programs for OP's sister's needs. An ADDICTION therapist will look for other causes as well (and there could be multiple causes or a single very different cause), and make a referral to a psychiatrist for SSRIs/SSNIs or other meds that could help treat underlying causes. Also, an ADDICTION therapist will help OP's family address other issues, like enabling OP's sister.

None of which a trauma therapist is necessarily able to provide. It's surprising you think an ADDICTION therapist only talks about the addiction itself instead of addressing the root causes, but that's exactly what they DO do. ADDICTION therapists provide talk therapy to address the underlying causes, in addition to all the other services I mentioned above. I have experience with ADDICTION therapy for a family member. This is yet another indication that you're not qualified to make recommendations on this issue.

This is a no-brainer.

Talk therapy for addiction is useless.

Talk therapy addresses the underlying causes of addiction. Including for depression or trauma or anxiety or low self-esteem or grief. If you think it's useless for addiction, you must think it's useless for anything.

It’s good for mildly lost souls who need direction.

This is such a weird proxy fight over what therapy means and/or should be. Unfortunately you have no clue about the different types of therapists.

OP, please ignore (a) the people who say you need a trauma therapist instead of an addiction therapist, and (b) the naysayers who insist that nothing could ever work. They're both ignorant and wrong.

Ignore the people that are likely (70% chance) right and listen to the people caught up in the addiction mill process? No.

Clearly your trauma therapist hasn't helped you understand that you're misunderstanding addiction and addiction protocols, projecting your own issues onto others, fabricating wild claims about complete strangers.

You need to find a new therapist, preferably one whose practice isn't limited to trauma.

You need a therapist to stop attacking people online for giving advice. If you don’t like it move on.

Lots of us get concerned when bad advice is offered to somebody who is vulnerable and new to dealing with issues like addiction. As you yourself apparently have no experience with addiction among your family or friends, you need to sit down.

You seem to personally connected to addition to be unbiased ... reread OP's post. Really, you read that and it does not scream family trauma all over the place.

You know who needs therapy too, OP. 2 kids before college, jealous of dad helping sister, saying she was "even lazy as a child" ... come on man can you read.

Having two kids before college is not indicative of trauma. Way to try to shame OP. What’s wrong with you.

Yes it is. You would flip out if your daughter had kids while going to college.

Save the sanctimony, lots of people do this. Also, produce the stats that say having kids during college is linked to trauma.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is your mother? Also, what happened to your sister, what pain is she trying to numb with the drugs?

“Blame the parents for everything” pp has entered the room. Because it’s never normal teenage social anxiety leading to experimentation leading to much more.

She’s not blaming the parents but she most likely was raped at some point.

Get help for projecting horrible things onto anonymous people on the interwebs.

Statistics is your friend.

There is a huge chance she has trauma. Addiction is a disease in response to something underlying, perhaps she is bipolar or schizophrenic but my $ is on trauma.

You, my lady, are the one projecting.

Oh good. Pp has diagnosed a complete stranger and recommended trauma therapy. Ruling out so many other causes, like untreated depression and anxiety or bad choice of friends.

DCUM never fails to disappoint.

What do you think is causing anxiety and depression.

About 70% of addicted adults have trauma in their past.

Just playing the odds.

Anxiety and depression are very often genetic. They run in families, and certainly in DH’s. If you don’t even know this much, you have no business giving advice over the internet.

But you can diagnose her with anxiety and depression?

Of course not. I’m not diagnosing her with anything. I want a professional to do that.

Great but find one that specializes in trauma.

And what if the cause is the other 30% even you grudgingly admit is out there? Or one of the many other reasons the Mayo Clinic cites? OP’s sister is SOL because your “hunch” is wrong and her genetic depression/anxiety goes untreated? You suck. You really suck.

I’m sure a trauma specialist can rule out trauma.

You suck because you are so bent out of shake about the realization that most addicts had trauma in their past.

Remember tgat next time you think fat people just need to eat less.

So if a trauma specialist rules out trauma, then OP's sister has wasted several months with an inappropriate therapist. Do you think that would be a good outcome?

OP's sister needs an ADDICTION therapist. Who will know how to rule trauma in or out, or any other cause, and make the appropriate referrals. This is basic stuff.

And if you go to a therapist that doesn’t understand trauma you could get a misdiagnosis and spin your wheels for decades.

Of course an ADDICTION therapist is trained to look for all possible causes of addiction, and may also be able to provide trauma therapy if that's warranted, or quickly provide a referral. An ADDICTION therapist will be able to recommend the best inpatient and outpatient programs for OP's sister's needs. An ADDICTION therapist will look for other causes as well (and there could be multiple causes or a single very different cause), and make a referral to a psychiatrist for SSRIs/SSNIs or other meds that could help treat underlying causes. Also, an ADDICTION therapist will help OP's family address other issues, like enabling OP's sister.

None of which a trauma therapist is necessarily able to provide. It's surprising you think an ADDICTION therapist only talks about the addiction itself instead of addressing the root causes, but that's exactly what they DO do. ADDICTION therapists provide talk therapy to address the underlying causes, in addition to all the other services I mentioned above. I have experience with ADDICTION therapy for a family member. This is yet another indication that you're not qualified to make recommendations on this issue.

This is a no-brainer.

Talk therapy for addiction is useless.

Talk therapy addresses the underlying causes of addiction. Including for depression or trauma or anxiety or low self-esteem or grief. If you think it's useless for addiction, you must think it's useless for anything.

It’s good for mildly lost souls who need direction.

This is such a weird proxy fight over what therapy means and/or should be. Unfortunately you have no clue about the different types of therapists.

OP, please ignore (a) the people who say you need a trauma therapist instead of an addiction therapist, and (b) the naysayers who insist that nothing could ever work. They're both ignorant and wrong.

Ignore the people that are likely (70% chance) right and listen to the people caught up in the addiction mill process? No.

Clearly your trauma therapist hasn't helped you understand that you're misunderstanding addiction and addiction protocols, projecting your own issues onto others, fabricating wild claims about complete strangers.

You need to find a new therapist, preferably one whose practice isn't limited to trauma.

You need a therapist to stop attacking people online for giving advice. If you don’t like it move on.

Lots of us get concerned when bad advice is offered to somebody who is vulnerable and new to dealing with issues like addiction. As you yourself apparently have no experience with addiction among your family or friends, you need to sit down.

You seem to personally connected to addition to be unbiased ... reread OP's post. Really, you read that and it does not scream family trauma all over the place.

You know who needs therapy too, OP. 2 kids before college, jealous of dad helping sister, saying she was "even lazy as a child" ... come on man can you read.

Of course OP’s post suggests family trauma. Nobody ever said it didn’t. Although that’s not definitive—lots of people have kids before going to college, there’s no shame in that. And your other comments about sister jealousy don’t suggest trauma at all. Even by your standards (and your links weren’t persuasive), there’s a 30% change trauma therapy would be completely inappropriate.

That doesn’t mean a trauma therapist is the best person to treat an addict. No. An addiction therapist is hands-down the best person to help, because many are also trained to deal with trauma if appropriate, and they can also provide a whole suite of services from facilitating interventions, recommending I/O facilities, coordinating with a Psychiatrist re meds, and providing family therapy. You’re too close to your own trauma to see what’s helpful to others who are different from you. Or you’re a trauma therapist looking for business, and that’s why you’re on every thread flogging trauma.

Do you even understand statistics? 30% chance I’m wrong 70% chance you are wrong.

OP,

Step 1 - get your self a therapist … one specializing in trauma if appropriate.

Stop judging your sister do harshly, there is a 70% chance she experienced trauma and 30% + her addiction is based in mental illness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is your mother? Also, what happened to your sister, what pain is she trying to numb with the drugs?

“Blame the parents for everything” pp has entered the room. Because it’s never normal teenage social anxiety leading to experimentation leading to much more.

She’s not blaming the parents but she most likely was raped at some point.

Get help for projecting horrible things onto anonymous people on the interwebs.

Statistics is your friend.

There is a huge chance she has trauma. Addiction is a disease in response to something underlying, perhaps she is bipolar or schizophrenic but my $ is on trauma.

You, my lady, are the one projecting.

Oh good. Pp has diagnosed a complete stranger and recommended trauma therapy. Ruling out so many other causes, like untreated depression and anxiety or bad choice of friends.

DCUM never fails to disappoint.

What do you think is causing anxiety and depression.

About 70% of addicted adults have trauma in their past.

Just playing the odds.

Anxiety and depression are very often genetic. They run in families, and certainly in DH’s. If you don’t even know this much, you have no business giving advice over the internet.

But you can diagnose her with anxiety and depression?

Of course not. I’m not diagnosing her with anything. I want a professional to do that.

Great but find one that specializes in trauma.

And what if the cause is the other 30% even you grudgingly admit is out there? Or one of the many other reasons the Mayo Clinic cites? OP’s sister is SOL because your “hunch” is wrong and her genetic depression/anxiety goes untreated? You suck. You really suck.

I’m sure a trauma specialist can rule out trauma.

You suck because you are so bent out of shake about the realization that most addicts had trauma in their past.

Remember tgat next time you think fat people just need to eat less.

So if a trauma specialist rules out trauma, then OP's sister has wasted several months with an inappropriate therapist. Do you think that would be a good outcome?

OP's sister needs an ADDICTION therapist. Who will know how to rule trauma in or out, or any other cause, and make the appropriate referrals. This is basic stuff.

And if you go to a therapist that doesn’t understand trauma you could get a misdiagnosis and spin your wheels for decades.

Of course an ADDICTION therapist is trained to look for all possible causes of addiction, and may also be able to provide trauma therapy if that's warranted, or quickly provide a referral. An ADDICTION therapist will be able to recommend the best inpatient and outpatient programs for OP's sister's needs. An ADDICTION therapist will look for other causes as well (and there could be multiple causes or a single very different cause), and make a referral to a psychiatrist for SSRIs/SSNIs or other meds that could help treat underlying causes. Also, an ADDICTION therapist will help OP's family address other issues, like enabling OP's sister.

None of which a trauma therapist is necessarily able to provide. It's surprising you think an ADDICTION therapist only talks about the addiction itself instead of addressing the root causes, but that's exactly what they DO do. ADDICTION therapists provide talk therapy to address the underlying causes, in addition to all the other services I mentioned above. I have experience with ADDICTION therapy for a family member. This is yet another indication that you're not qualified to make recommendations on this issue.

This is a no-brainer.

Talk therapy for addiction is useless.

Talk therapy addresses the underlying causes of addiction. Including for depression or trauma or anxiety or low self-esteem or grief. If you think it's useless for addiction, you must think it's useless for anything.

It’s good for mildly lost souls who need direction.

This is such a weird proxy fight over what therapy means and/or should be. Unfortunately you have no clue about the different types of therapists.

OP, please ignore (a) the people who say you need a trauma therapist instead of an addiction therapist, and (b) the naysayers who insist that nothing could ever work. They're both ignorant and wrong.

Ignore the people that are likely (70% chance) right and listen to the people caught up in the addiction mill process? No.

Clearly your trauma therapist hasn't helped you understand that you're misunderstanding addiction and addiction protocols, projecting your own issues onto others, fabricating wild claims about complete strangers.

You need to find a new therapist, preferably one whose practice isn't limited to trauma.

You need a therapist to stop attacking people online for giving advice. If you don’t like it move on.

Lots of us get concerned when bad advice is offered to somebody who is vulnerable and new to dealing with issues like addiction. As you yourself apparently have no experience with addiction among your family or friends, you need to sit down.

You seem to personally connected to addition to be unbiased ... reread OP's post. Really, you read that and it does not scream family trauma all over the place.

You know who needs therapy too, OP. 2 kids before college, jealous of dad helping sister, saying she was "even lazy as a child" ... come on man can you read.

Having two kids before college is not indicative of trauma. Way to try to shame OP. What’s wrong with you.

Yes it is. You would flip out if your daughter had kids while going to college.

Save the sanctimony, lots of people do this. Also, produce the stats that say having kids during college is linked to trauma.

Women who experienced 4 or more types of abuse during their childhood were 1.5 times (95% CI, 1.2-1.8) more likely to have an unintended first pregnancy during adulthood than women who did not experience any abuse.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10527183/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4494794/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8005410/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is your mother? Also, what happened to your sister, what pain is she trying to numb with the drugs?

“Blame the parents for everything” pp has entered the room. Because it’s never normal teenage social anxiety leading to experimentation leading to much more.

She’s not blaming the parents but she most likely was raped at some point.

Get help for projecting horrible things onto anonymous people on the interwebs.

Statistics is your friend.

There is a huge chance she has trauma. Addiction is a disease in response to something underlying, perhaps she is bipolar or schizophrenic but my $ is on trauma.

You, my lady, are the one projecting.

Oh good. Pp has diagnosed a complete stranger and recommended trauma therapy. Ruling out so many other causes, like untreated depression and anxiety or bad choice of friends.

DCUM never fails to disappoint.

What do you think is causing anxiety and depression.

About 70% of addicted adults have trauma in their past.

Just playing the odds.

Anxiety and depression are very often genetic. They run in families, and certainly in DH’s. If you don’t even know this much, you have no business giving advice over the internet.

But you can diagnose her with anxiety and depression?

Of course not. I’m not diagnosing her with anything. I want a professional to do that.

Great but find one that specializes in trauma.

And what if the cause is the other 30% even you grudgingly admit is out there? Or one of the many other reasons the Mayo Clinic cites? OP’s sister is SOL because your “hunch” is wrong and her genetic depression/anxiety goes untreated? You suck. You really suck.

I’m sure a trauma specialist can rule out trauma.

You suck because you are so bent out of shake about the realization that most addicts had trauma in their past.

Remember tgat next time you think fat people just need to eat less.

So if a trauma specialist rules out trauma, then OP's sister has wasted several months with an inappropriate therapist. Do you think that would be a good outcome?

OP's sister needs an ADDICTION therapist. Who will know how to rule trauma in or out, or any other cause, and make the appropriate referrals. This is basic stuff.

And if you go to a therapist that doesn’t understand trauma you could get a misdiagnosis and spin your wheels for decades.

Of course an ADDICTION therapist is trained to look for all possible causes of addiction, and may also be able to provide trauma therapy if that's warranted, or quickly provide a referral. An ADDICTION therapist will be able to recommend the best inpatient and outpatient programs for OP's sister's needs. An ADDICTION therapist will look for other causes as well (and there could be multiple causes or a single very different cause), and make a referral to a psychiatrist for SSRIs/SSNIs or other meds that could help treat underlying causes. Also, an ADDICTION therapist will help OP's family address other issues, like enabling OP's sister.

None of which a trauma therapist is necessarily able to provide. It's surprising you think an ADDICTION therapist only talks about the addiction itself instead of addressing the root causes, but that's exactly what they DO do. ADDICTION therapists provide talk therapy to address the underlying causes, in addition to all the other services I mentioned above. I have experience with ADDICTION therapy for a family member. This is yet another indication that you're not qualified to make recommendations on this issue.

This is a no-brainer.

Talk therapy for addiction is useless.

Talk therapy addresses the underlying causes of addiction. Including for depression or trauma or anxiety or low self-esteem or grief. If you think it's useless for addiction, you must think it's useless for anything.

It’s good for mildly lost souls who need direction.

This is such a weird proxy fight over what therapy means and/or should be. Unfortunately you have no clue about the different types of therapists.

OP, please ignore (a) the people who say you need a trauma therapist instead of an addiction therapist, and (b) the naysayers who insist that nothing could ever work. They're both ignorant and wrong.

Ignore the people that are likely (70% chance) right and listen to the people caught up in the addiction mill process? No.

Clearly your trauma therapist hasn't helped you understand that you're misunderstanding addiction and addiction protocols, projecting your own issues onto others, fabricating wild claims about complete strangers.

You need to find a new therapist, preferably one whose practice isn't limited to trauma.

You need a therapist to stop attacking people online for giving advice. If you don’t like it move on.

Lots of us get concerned when bad advice is offered to somebody who is vulnerable and new to dealing with issues like addiction. As you yourself apparently have no experience with addiction among your family or friends, you need to sit down.

You seem to personally connected to addition to be unbiased ... reread OP's post. Really, you read that and it does not scream family trauma all over the place.

You know who needs therapy too, OP. 2 kids before college, jealous of dad helping sister, saying she was "even lazy as a child" ... come on man can you read.

Having two kids before college is not indicative of trauma. Way to try to shame OP. What’s wrong with you.

Yes it is. You would flip out if your daughter had kids while going to college.

Save the sanctimony, lots of people do this. Also, produce the stats that say having kids during college is linked to trauma.

Women who experienced 4 or more types of abuse during their childhood were 1.5 times (95% CI, 1.2-1.8) more likely to have an unintended first pregnancy during adulthood than women who did not experience any abuse.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10527183/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4494794/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8005410/

You need to study statistics and logic. Pct of women with abuse who get pregnant is very different from pct of women who are pregnant who experienced abuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is your mother? Also, what happened to your sister, what pain is she trying to numb with the drugs?

“Blame the parents for everything” pp has entered the room. Because it’s never normal teenage social anxiety leading to experimentation leading to much more.

She’s not blaming the parents but she most likely was raped at some point.

Get help for projecting horrible things onto anonymous people on the interwebs.

Statistics is your friend.

There is a huge chance she has trauma. Addiction is a disease in response to something underlying, perhaps she is bipolar or schizophrenic but my $ is on trauma.

You, my lady, are the one projecting.

Oh good. Pp has diagnosed a complete stranger and recommended trauma therapy. Ruling out so many other causes, like untreated depression and anxiety or bad choice of friends.

DCUM never fails to disappoint.

What do you think is causing anxiety and depression.

About 70% of addicted adults have trauma in their past.

Just playing the odds.

Anxiety and depression are very often genetic. They run in families, and certainly in DH’s. If you don’t even know this much, you have no business giving advice over the internet.

But you can diagnose her with anxiety and depression?

Of course not. I’m not diagnosing her with anything. I want a professional to do that.

Great but find one that specializes in trauma.

And what if the cause is the other 30% even you grudgingly admit is out there? Or one of the many other reasons the Mayo Clinic cites? OP’s sister is SOL because your “hunch” is wrong and her genetic depression/anxiety goes untreated? You suck. You really suck.

I’m sure a trauma specialist can rule out trauma.

You suck because you are so bent out of shake about the realization that most addicts had trauma in their past.

Remember tgat next time you think fat people just need to eat less.

So if a trauma specialist rules out trauma, then OP's sister has wasted several months with an inappropriate therapist. Do you think that would be a good outcome?

OP's sister needs an ADDICTION therapist. Who will know how to rule trauma in or out, or any other cause, and make the appropriate referrals. This is basic stuff.

And if you go to a therapist that doesn’t understand trauma you could get a misdiagnosis and spin your wheels for decades.

Of course an ADDICTION therapist is trained to look for all possible causes of addiction, and may also be able to provide trauma therapy if that's warranted, or quickly provide a referral. An ADDICTION therapist will be able to recommend the best inpatient and outpatient programs for OP's sister's needs. An ADDICTION therapist will look for other causes as well (and there could be multiple causes or a single very different cause), and make a referral to a psychiatrist for SSRIs/SSNIs or other meds that could help treat underlying causes. Also, an ADDICTION therapist will help OP's family address other issues, like enabling OP's sister.

None of which a trauma therapist is necessarily able to provide. It's surprising you think an ADDICTION therapist only talks about the addiction itself instead of addressing the root causes, but that's exactly what they DO do. ADDICTION therapists provide talk therapy to address the underlying causes, in addition to all the other services I mentioned above. I have experience with ADDICTION therapy for a family member. This is yet another indication that you're not qualified to make recommendations on this issue.

This is a no-brainer.

Talk therapy for addiction is useless.

Talk therapy addresses the underlying causes of addiction. Including for depression or trauma or anxiety or low self-esteem or grief. If you think it's useless for addiction, you must think it's useless for anything.

It’s good for mildly lost souls who need direction.

This is such a weird proxy fight over what therapy means and/or should be. Unfortunately you have no clue about the different types of therapists.

OP, please ignore (a) the people who say you need a trauma therapist instead of an addiction therapist, and (b) the naysayers who insist that nothing could ever work. They're both ignorant and wrong.

Ignore the people that are likely (70% chance) right and listen to the people caught up in the addiction mill process? No.

Clearly your trauma therapist hasn't helped you understand that you're misunderstanding addiction and addiction protocols, projecting your own issues onto others, fabricating wild claims about complete strangers.

You need to find a new therapist, preferably one whose practice isn't limited to trauma.

You need a therapist to stop attacking people online for giving advice. If you don’t like it move on.

Lots of us get concerned when bad advice is offered to somebody who is vulnerable and new to dealing with issues like addiction. As you yourself apparently have no experience with addiction among your family or friends, you need to sit down.

You seem to personally connected to addition to be unbiased ... reread OP's post. Really, you read that and it does not scream family trauma all over the place.

You know who needs therapy too, OP. 2 kids before college, jealous of dad helping sister, saying she was "even lazy as a child" ... come on man can you read.

Of course OP’s post suggests family trauma. Nobody ever said it didn’t. Although that’s not definitive—lots of people have kids before going to college, there’s no shame in that. And your other comments about sister jealousy don’t suggest trauma at all. Even by your standards (and your links weren’t persuasive), there’s a 30% change trauma therapy would be completely inappropriate.

That doesn’t mean a trauma therapist is the best person to treat an addict. No. An addiction therapist is hands-down the best person to help, because many are also trained to deal with trauma if appropriate, and they can also provide a whole suite of services from facilitating interventions, recommending I/O facilities, coordinating with a Psychiatrist re meds, and providing family therapy. You’re too close to your own trauma to see what’s helpful to others who are different from you. Or you’re a trauma therapist looking for business, and that’s why you’re on every thread flogging trauma.

Do you even understand statistics? 30% chance I’m wrong 70% chance you are wrong.

OP,

Step 1 - get your self a therapist … one specializing in trauma if appropriate.

Stop judging your sister do harshly, there is a 70% chance she experienced trauma and 30% + her addiction is based in mental illness.

Stop already. Even a 30% chance you're wrong is too high.

An addiction specialist is qualified to make this call. You have zero qualifications for making this call.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is your mother? Also, what happened to your sister, what pain is she trying to numb with the drugs?

“Blame the parents for everything” pp has entered the room. Because it’s never normal teenage social anxiety leading to experimentation leading to much more.

She’s not blaming the parents but she most likely was raped at some point.

Get help for projecting horrible things onto anonymous people on the interwebs.

Statistics is your friend.

There is a huge chance she has trauma. Addiction is a disease in response to something underlying, perhaps she is bipolar or schizophrenic but my $ is on trauma.

You, my lady, are the one projecting.

Oh good. Pp has diagnosed a complete stranger and recommended trauma therapy. Ruling out so many other causes, like untreated depression and anxiety or bad choice of friends.

DCUM never fails to disappoint.

What do you think is causing anxiety and depression.

About 70% of addicted adults have trauma in their past.

Just playing the odds.

Anxiety and depression are very often genetic. They run in families, and certainly in DH’s. If you don’t even know this much, you have no business giving advice over the internet.

But you can diagnose her with anxiety and depression?

Of course not. I’m not diagnosing her with anything. I want a professional to do that.

Great but find one that specializes in trauma.

And what if the cause is the other 30% even you grudgingly admit is out there? Or one of the many other reasons the Mayo Clinic cites? OP’s sister is SOL because your “hunch” is wrong and her genetic depression/anxiety goes untreated? You suck. You really suck.

I’m sure a trauma specialist can rule out trauma.

You suck because you are so bent out of shake about the realization that most addicts had trauma in their past.

Remember tgat next time you think fat people just need to eat less.

So if a trauma specialist rules out trauma, then OP's sister has wasted several months with an inappropriate therapist. Do you think that would be a good outcome?

OP's sister needs an ADDICTION therapist. Who will know how to rule trauma in or out, or any other cause, and make the appropriate referrals. This is basic stuff.

And if you go to a therapist that doesn’t understand trauma you could get a misdiagnosis and spin your wheels for decades.

Of course an ADDICTION therapist is trained to look for all possible causes of addiction, and may also be able to provide trauma therapy if that's warranted, or quickly provide a referral. An ADDICTION therapist will be able to recommend the best inpatient and outpatient programs for OP's sister's needs. An ADDICTION therapist will look for other causes as well (and there could be multiple causes or a single very different cause), and make a referral to a psychiatrist for SSRIs/SSNIs or other meds that could help treat underlying causes. Also, an ADDICTION therapist will help OP's family address other issues, like enabling OP's sister.

None of which a trauma therapist is necessarily able to provide. It's surprising you think an ADDICTION therapist only talks about the addiction itself instead of addressing the root causes, but that's exactly what they DO do. ADDICTION therapists provide talk therapy to address the underlying causes, in addition to all the other services I mentioned above. I have experience with ADDICTION therapy for a family member. This is yet another indication that you're not qualified to make recommendations on this issue.

This is a no-brainer.

Talk therapy for addiction is useless.

Talk therapy addresses the underlying causes of addiction. Including for depression or trauma or anxiety or low self-esteem or grief. If you think it's useless for addiction, you must think it's useless for anything.

It’s good for mildly lost souls who need direction.

This is such a weird proxy fight over what therapy means and/or should be. Unfortunately you have no clue about the different types of therapists.

OP, please ignore (a) the people who say you need a trauma therapist instead of an addiction therapist, and (b) the naysayers who insist that nothing could ever work. They're both ignorant and wrong.

Ignore the people that are likely (70% chance) right and listen to the people caught up in the addiction mill process? No.

Clearly your trauma therapist hasn't helped you understand that you're misunderstanding addiction and addiction protocols, projecting your own issues onto others, fabricating wild claims about complete strangers.

You need to find a new therapist, preferably one whose practice isn't limited to trauma.

You need a therapist to stop attacking people online for giving advice. If you don’t like it move on.

Lots of us get concerned when bad advice is offered to somebody who is vulnerable and new to dealing with issues like addiction. As you yourself apparently have no experience with addiction among your family or friends, you need to sit down.

You seem to personally connected to addition to be unbiased ... reread OP's post. Really, you read that and it does not scream family trauma all over the place.

You know who needs therapy too, OP. 2 kids before college, jealous of dad helping sister, saying she was "even lazy as a child" ... come on man can you read.

Having two kids before college is not indicative of trauma. Way to try to shame OP. What’s wrong with you.

Yes it is. You would flip out if your daughter had kids while going to college.

Save the sanctimony, lots of people do this. Also, produce the stats that say having kids during college is linked to trauma.

Women who experienced 4 or more types of abuse during their childhood were 1.5 times (95% CI, 1.2-1.8) more likely to have an unintended first pregnancy during adulthood than women who did not experience any abuse.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10527183/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4494794/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8005410/

You need to study statistics and logic. Pct of women with abuse who get pregnant is very different from pct of women who are pregnant who experienced abuse.

Lol, did u really write that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is your mother? Also, what happened to your sister, what pain is she trying to numb with the drugs?

“Blame the parents for everything” pp has entered the room. Because it’s never normal teenage social anxiety leading to experimentation leading to much more.

She’s not blaming the parents but she most likely was raped at some point.

Get help for projecting horrible things onto anonymous people on the interwebs.

Statistics is your friend.

There is a huge chance she has trauma. Addiction is a disease in response to something underlying, perhaps she is bipolar or schizophrenic but my $ is on trauma.

You, my lady, are the one projecting.

Oh good. Pp has diagnosed a complete stranger and recommended trauma therapy. Ruling out so many other causes, like untreated depression and anxiety or bad choice of friends.

DCUM never fails to disappoint.

What do you think is causing anxiety and depression.

About 70% of addicted adults have trauma in their past.

Just playing the odds.

Anxiety and depression are very often genetic. They run in families, and certainly in DH’s. If you don’t even know this much, you have no business giving advice over the internet.

But you can diagnose her with anxiety and depression?

Of course not. I’m not diagnosing her with anything. I want a professional to do that.

Great but find one that specializes in trauma.

And what if the cause is the other 30% even you grudgingly admit is out there? Or one of the many other reasons the Mayo Clinic cites? OP’s sister is SOL because your “hunch” is wrong and her genetic depression/anxiety goes untreated? You suck. You really suck.

I’m sure a trauma specialist can rule out trauma.

You suck because you are so bent out of shake about the realization that most addicts had trauma in their past.

Remember tgat next time you think fat people just need to eat less.

So if a trauma specialist rules out trauma, then OP's sister has wasted several months with an inappropriate therapist. Do you think that would be a good outcome?

OP's sister needs an ADDICTION therapist. Who will know how to rule trauma in or out, or any other cause, and make the appropriate referrals. This is basic stuff.

And if you go to a therapist that doesn’t understand trauma you could get a misdiagnosis and spin your wheels for decades.

Of course an ADDICTION therapist is trained to look for all possible causes of addiction, and may also be able to provide trauma therapy if that's warranted, or quickly provide a referral. An ADDICTION therapist will be able to recommend the best inpatient and outpatient programs for OP's sister's needs. An ADDICTION therapist will look for other causes as well (and there could be multiple causes or a single very different cause), and make a referral to a psychiatrist for SSRIs/SSNIs or other meds that could help treat underlying causes. Also, an ADDICTION therapist will help OP's family address other issues, like enabling OP's sister.

None of which a trauma therapist is necessarily able to provide. It's surprising you think an ADDICTION therapist only talks about the addiction itself instead of addressing the root causes, but that's exactly what they DO do. ADDICTION therapists provide talk therapy to address the underlying causes, in addition to all the other services I mentioned above. I have experience with ADDICTION therapy for a family member. This is yet another indication that you're not qualified to make recommendations on this issue.

This is a no-brainer.

Talk therapy for addiction is useless.

Talk therapy addresses the underlying causes of addiction. Including for depression or trauma or anxiety or low self-esteem or grief. If you think it's useless for addiction, you must think it's useless for anything.

It’s good for mildly lost souls who need direction.

This is such a weird proxy fight over what therapy means and/or should be. Unfortunately you have no clue about the different types of therapists.

OP, please ignore (a) the people who say you need a trauma therapist instead of an addiction therapist, and (b) the naysayers who insist that nothing could ever work. They're both ignorant and wrong.

Ignore the people that are likely (70% chance) right and listen to the people caught up in the addiction mill process? No.

Clearly your trauma therapist hasn't helped you understand that you're misunderstanding addiction and addiction protocols, projecting your own issues onto others, fabricating wild claims about complete strangers.

You need to find a new therapist, preferably one whose practice isn't limited to trauma.

You need a therapist to stop attacking people online for giving advice. If you don’t like it move on.

Lots of us get concerned when bad advice is offered to somebody who is vulnerable and new to dealing with issues like addiction. As you yourself apparently have no experience with addiction among your family or friends, you need to sit down.

You seem to personally connected to addition to be unbiased ... reread OP's post. Really, you read that and it does not scream family trauma all over the place.

You know who needs therapy too, OP. 2 kids before college, jealous of dad helping sister, saying she was "even lazy as a child" ... come on man can you read.

Of course OP’s post suggests family trauma. Nobody ever said it didn’t. Although that’s not definitive—lots of people have kids before going to college, there’s no shame in that. And your other comments about sister jealousy don’t suggest trauma at all. Even by your standards (and your links weren’t persuasive), there’s a 30% change trauma therapy would be completely inappropriate.

That doesn’t mean a trauma therapist is the best person to treat an addict. No. An addiction therapist is hands-down the best person to help, because many are also trained to deal with trauma if appropriate, and they can also provide a whole suite of services from facilitating interventions, recommending I/O facilities, coordinating with a Psychiatrist re meds, and providing family therapy. You’re too close to your own trauma to see what’s helpful to others who are different from you. Or you’re a trauma therapist looking for business, and that’s why you’re on every thread flogging trauma.

Do you even understand statistics? 30% chance I’m wrong 70% chance you are wrong.

OP,

Step 1 - get your self a therapist … one specializing in trauma if appropriate.

Stop judging your sister do harshly, there is a 70% chance she experienced trauma and 30% + her addiction is based in mental illness.

Stop already. Even a 30% chance you're wrong is too high.

An addiction specialist is qualified to make this call. You have zero qualifications for making this call.

A 70% chance of being wrong is too high.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is your mother? Also, what happened to your sister, what pain is she trying to numb with the drugs?

“Blame the parents for everything” pp has entered the room. Because it’s never normal teenage social anxiety leading to experimentation leading to much more.

She’s not blaming the parents but she most likely was raped at some point.

Get help for projecting horrible things onto anonymous people on the interwebs.

Statistics is your friend.

There is a huge chance she has trauma. Addiction is a disease in response to something underlying, perhaps she is bipolar or schizophrenic but my $ is on trauma.

You, my lady, are the one projecting.

Oh good. Pp has diagnosed a complete stranger and recommended trauma therapy. Ruling out so many other causes, like untreated depression and anxiety or bad choice of friends.

DCUM never fails to disappoint.

What do you think is causing anxiety and depression.

About 70% of addicted adults have trauma in their past.

Just playing the odds.

Anxiety and depression are very often genetic. They run in families, and certainly in DH’s. If you don’t even know this much, you have no business giving advice over the internet.

But you can diagnose her with anxiety and depression?

Of course not. I’m not diagnosing her with anything. I want a professional to do that.

Great but find one that specializes in trauma.

And what if the cause is the other 30% even you grudgingly admit is out there? Or one of the many other reasons the Mayo Clinic cites? OP’s sister is SOL because your “hunch” is wrong and her genetic depression/anxiety goes untreated? You suck. You really suck.

I’m sure a trauma specialist can rule out trauma.

You suck because you are so bent out of shake about the realization that most addicts had trauma in their past.

Remember tgat next time you think fat people just need to eat less.

So if a trauma specialist rules out trauma, then OP's sister has wasted several months with an inappropriate therapist. Do you think that would be a good outcome?

OP's sister needs an ADDICTION therapist. Who will know how to rule trauma in or out, or any other cause, and make the appropriate referrals. This is basic stuff.

And if you go to a therapist that doesn’t understand trauma you could get a misdiagnosis and spin your wheels for decades.

Of course an ADDICTION therapist is trained to look for all possible causes of addiction, and may also be able to provide trauma therapy if that's warranted, or quickly provide a referral. An ADDICTION therapist will be able to recommend the best inpatient and outpatient programs for OP's sister's needs. An ADDICTION therapist will look for other causes as well (and there could be multiple causes or a single very different cause), and make a referral to a psychiatrist for SSRIs/SSNIs or other meds that could help treat underlying causes. Also, an ADDICTION therapist will help OP's family address other issues, like enabling OP's sister.

None of which a trauma therapist is necessarily able to provide. It's surprising you think an ADDICTION therapist only talks about the addiction itself instead of addressing the root causes, but that's exactly what they DO do. ADDICTION therapists provide talk therapy to address the underlying causes, in addition to all the other services I mentioned above. I have experience with ADDICTION therapy for a family member. This is yet another indication that you're not qualified to make recommendations on this issue.

This is a no-brainer.

Talk therapy for addiction is useless.

Talk therapy addresses the underlying causes of addiction. Including for depression or trauma or anxiety or low self-esteem or grief. If you think it's useless for addiction, you must think it's useless for anything.

It’s good for mildly lost souls who need direction.

This is such a weird proxy fight over what therapy means and/or should be. Unfortunately you have no clue about the different types of therapists.

OP, please ignore (a) the people who say you need a trauma therapist instead of an addiction therapist, and (b) the naysayers who insist that nothing could ever work. They're both ignorant and wrong.

Ignore the people that are likely (70% chance) right and listen to the people caught up in the addiction mill process? No.

Clearly your trauma therapist hasn't helped you understand that you're misunderstanding addiction and addiction protocols, projecting your own issues onto others, fabricating wild claims about complete strangers.

You need to find a new therapist, preferably one whose practice isn't limited to trauma.

You need a therapist to stop attacking people online for giving advice. If you don’t like it move on.

Lots of us get concerned when bad advice is offered to somebody who is vulnerable and new to dealing with issues like addiction. As you yourself apparently have no experience with addiction among your family or friends, you need to sit down.

You seem to personally connected to addition to be unbiased ... reread OP's post. Really, you read that and it does not scream family trauma all over the place.

You know who needs therapy too, OP. 2 kids before college, jealous of dad helping sister, saying she was "even lazy as a child" ... come on man can you read.

Having two kids before college is not indicative of trauma. Way to try to shame OP. What’s wrong with you.

Yes it is. You would flip out if your daughter had kids while going to college.

Save the sanctimony, lots of people do this. Also, produce the stats that say having kids during college is linked to trauma.

Women who experienced 4 or more types of abuse during their childhood were 1.5 times (95% CI, 1.2-1.8) more likely to have an unintended first pregnancy during adulthood than women who did not experience any abuse.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10527183/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4494794/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8005410/

You need to study statistics and logic. Pct of women with abuse who get pregnant is very different from pct of women who are pregnant who experienced abuse.

Lol, did u really write that.

Lol, can you really not see the difference? Yikes.