NY Mag: Daycare is Broken

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's broken is an economy that forces a majority of parents to work full-time in order to make ends meet.

This. Institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. It’s just a sad result of our economic system.

I agree totally that institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. However, while the economic system often seems to make this inevitable for many families, I also wonder why so many people do not consider this hard fact when planning, or failing to plan, their families. The attitude in this country seems to be that everyone is entitled to have as many children as they want rather than encouraging people to figure out what they actually can afford, what daycare options they can reasonably plan for, before bringing children into the world. So many new mothers and many new fathers as well are quite surprised by how much they would prefer to care for their own infants at least the first few years but find they have failed to anticipate this and therefore can't economically find a way to do it.

So you anticipated all this ahead of time? I feel like there was so much I didn’t know about parenting, and how parenting would change me, until I was actually a parent.

Also the problem is if everyone did as you say and only have kids they could “afford” the birth rate would likely drop pretty dramatically.

It dropped a LOT right after the 2008 recession and never came back, because people can't afford daycare. But there are too many people in the world for the planet anyway.

Can't disagree with you there, but there are consequences with dropping birth rates at the country level. You have to be ok with increased immigration, but that is unpopular with a lot of Americans.

I am not anit-immigrant at all. But wtf. I can't stand when people state that we should have more immigration instead of making it possible for our own citizens to have and afford children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's broken is an economy that forces a majority of parents to work full-time in order to make ends meet.

This. Institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. It’s just a sad result of our economic system.

I agree totally that institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. However, while the economic system often seems to make this inevitable for many families, I also wonder why so many people do not consider this hard fact when planning, or failing to plan, their families. The attitude in this country seems to be that everyone is entitled to have as many children as they want rather than encouraging people to figure out what they actually can afford, what daycare options they can reasonably plan for, before bringing children into the world. So many new mothers and many new fathers as well are quite surprised by how much they would prefer to care for their own infants at least the first few years but find they have failed to anticipate this and therefore can't economically find a way to do it.

So you anticipated all this ahead of time? I feel like there was so much I didn’t know about parenting, and how parenting would change me, until I was actually a parent.

Also the problem is if everyone did as you say and only have kids they could “afford” the birth rate would likely drop pretty dramatically.

Unlike many parents today I prioritized my desire to care for my own children when they were too young to go to full time school and so did my husband. We are not professionals and not the least bit affluent. Even so, we made it work for us because it was a high priority. I know other families who have done the same. It's not easy, but it is possible. For instance, I currently know a young family where the husband works night shifts and the wife works a few shifts as a server in a restaurant. They take care of their baby themselves while the other is working. They don't want anyone else caring for their baby so they found a way to avoid that. They live in a small house in a nice neighborhood. They struggle but it is worth it for them. Nannies and au pairs are not an option. They didn't know much about parenting before they had kids either but when they met their baby they did not want other people taking care of him. They don't plan to have another child but might change their minds eventually if their economic situation improves.

That's fine if it's their preference. We prefer to have time together as a family. That honestly does not sound ideal to me, compared to some time in daycare. I know someone who did something similar (Dr who switched to night shifts) and it was really grueling - it meant that during the day when she was watching her kids, it was on very little sleep.

+1 I would be a terrible parent under those circumstances.

My parents did shift work (mom was a nurse who worked nights) and it was hard for me as a kid. I remember that I wanted to be in aftercare because it was fun. My mom was often tired, missed dinners with us and I remember crying (when I was preschool aged) every night when she went to work. They only had one kid because of it, which I also resented. My mom slept all day Saturday and Sunday. When I got older she worked more weeknights since I was in school and would sleep on weekdays.

I really love my own setup. We did an inhome daycare across the street until kids were 4, then PreK. I work 7-4pm and often nights, but we have tons of fun as a family. Super short commutes and we all eat dinner together every single night.

Our major struggle is dealing with elementary care. We just cannot seem to make it work and have tried throwing money at it too. School ends at 2:10pm (horrific). We've done aftercares and my kids hate them. There aren't afterschool nannies or even babysitters since in my county high schoolers get out after 4pm. School is ALWAYS closed. They just can't seem to go to school for 5 days on any weeks. I'm not into institutionalized daycare either, but maybe kids need to actually be in school to learn anything? No wonder my school is failing. School hours really mean that a lot of moms especially can't work. Who came up with 2:10pm!?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's broken is an economy that forces a majority of parents to work full-time in order to make ends meet.

This. Institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. It’s just a sad result of our economic system.

I agree totally that institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. However, while the economic system often seems to make this inevitable for many families, I also wonder why so many people do not consider this hard fact when planning, or failing to plan, their families. The attitude in this country seems to be that everyone is entitled to have as many children as they want rather than encouraging people to figure out what they actually can afford, what daycare options they can reasonably plan for, before bringing children into the world. So many new mothers and many new fathers as well are quite surprised by how much they would prefer to care for their own infants at least the first few years but find they have failed to anticipate this and therefore can't economically find a way to do it.

So you anticipated all this ahead of time? I feel like there was so much I didn’t know about parenting, and how parenting would change me, until I was actually a parent.

Also the problem is if everyone did as you say and only have kids they could “afford” the birth rate would likely drop pretty dramatically.

Unlike many parents today I prioritized my desire to care for my own children when they were too young to go to full time school and so did my husband. We are not professionals and not the least bit affluent. Even so, we made it work for us because it was a high priority. I know other families who have done the same. It's not easy, but it is possible. For instance, I currently know a young family where the husband works night shifts and the wife works a few shifts as a server in a restaurant. They take care of their baby themselves while the other is working. They don't want anyone else caring for their baby so they found a way to avoid that. They live in a small house in a nice neighborhood. They struggle but it is worth it for them. Nannies and au pairs are not an option. They didn't know much about parenting before they had kids either but when they met their baby they did not want other people taking care of him. They don't plan to have another child but might change their minds eventually if their economic situation improves.

That's fine if it's their preference. We prefer to have time together as a family. That honestly does not sound ideal to me, compared to some time in daycare. I know someone who did something similar (Dr who switched to night shifts) and it was really grueling - it meant that during the day when she was watching her kids, it was on very little sleep.

+1 I would be a terrible parent under those circumstances.

My parents did shift work (mom was a nurse who worked nights) and it was hard for me as a kid. I remember that I wanted to be in aftercare because it was fun. My mom was often tired, missed dinners with us and I remember crying (when I was preschool aged) every night when she went to work. They only had one kid because of it, which I also resented. My mom slept all day Saturday and Sunday. When I got older she worked more weeknights since I was in school and would sleep on weekdays.

I really love my own setup. We did an inhome daycare across the street until kids were 4, then PreK. I work 7-4pm and often nights, but we have tons of fun as a family. Super short commutes and we all eat dinner together every single night.

Our major struggle is dealing with elementary care. We just cannot seem to make it work and have tried throwing money at it too. School ends at 2:10pm (horrific). We've done aftercares and my kids hate them. There aren't afterschool nannies or even babysitters since in my county high schoolers get out after 4pm. School is ALWAYS closed. They just can't seem to go to school for 5 days on any weeks. I'm not into institutionalized daycare either, but maybe kids need to actually be in school to learn anything? No wonder my school is failing. School hours really mean that a lot of moms especially can't work. Who came up with 2:10pm!?

We are on the opposite end where our ES doesn't start until 930am, which has its own downsides. The bus doesn't even come until 910 and I need to start work by 830 (DH even earlier). So my DC ends up attending both before and aftercare most days. They like it though, for now anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's broken is an economy that forces a majority of parents to work full-time in order to make ends meet.

This. Institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. It’s just a sad result of our economic system.

I agree totally that institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. However, while the economic system often seems to make this inevitable for many families, I also wonder why so many people do not consider this hard fact when planning, or failing to plan, their families. The attitude in this country seems to be that everyone is entitled to have as many children as they want rather than encouraging people to figure out what they actually can afford, what daycare options they can reasonably plan for, before bringing children into the world. So many new mothers and many new fathers as well are quite surprised by how much they would prefer to care for their own infants at least the first few years but find they have failed to anticipate this and therefore can't economically find a way to do it.

So you anticipated all this ahead of time? I feel like there was so much I didn’t know about parenting, and how parenting would change me, until I was actually a parent.

Also the problem is if everyone did as you say and only have kids they could “afford” the birth rate would likely drop pretty dramatically.

It dropped a LOT right after the 2008 recession and never came back, because people can't afford daycare. But there are too many people in the world for the planet anyway.

Can't disagree with you there, but there are consequences with dropping birth rates at the country level. You have to be ok with increased immigration, but that is unpopular with a lot of Americans.

I am not anit-immigrant at all. But wtf. I can't stand when people state that we should have more immigration instead of making it possible for our own citizens to have and afford children.

Maybe I just misinterpreted the previous post about there being too many people anyway (so dropping birthrates aren't a big deal). The point I was trying to make is that we can't have it both ways- to maintain a tax base longterm, there needs to be policies to either support citizens having kids or bring others in.

[Anonymous]

The US government didnt seem to mind paying for institutionalized daycare during wwii when all the women had to work because the men were gone. If society cared for or valued the participation of women in the workforce it would be subsidized. Once you do that, labor participation of women will skyrocket. Previously, corporations also went into state and federal partnerships when competition for labor was high. This has not happened yet except in few industries (fed and tech).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fact that 45K for two kids sounds reasonable does not obviate the problem that it’s unaffordable for most. Unless we only want Rich people having kids (and workers earning peanuts) we need a better solution.

Most people under a certain income bracket don’t pay for daycare. They hav family members watch the kids or older siblings watch the kids.

This. And they do shift work.

Yup. But DCUMers lose their damn minds every time this is suggested when they complain they can’t afford childcare.

“But…but….I’m ENTITLED to make 6+ figures at a cushy desk job, only on the schedule I prefer, and I simply *cannot* work opposite shifts with my spouse to save on childcare anyway, because I must spend every waking moment with my spouse fOr mY mEnTaL hEaLtH.”

OK, then find a way to pay for that childcare and quit whining.

You think people with professional jobs should just quit and take a job with shiftwork so they can avoid using childcare?

Two working professionals who can't afford Kindercare? Yes, if they can't afford rent on a small one bedroom apartment and daycare for one child on two professional salaries, then they are woefully underpaid and should seek other work.

It's not just about affording, it's whether institutionalized care for a young child is appropriate. With the expansion of telework and remote work, there's no reason many professional parents cant keep their baby at home and trade off for a few months anyway. I have friends who are planning to do this for the first year- one parent has a very flexible (maxi-flex) job and can fit in their hours at any time of the day. The other has less flexibility but enough. Babies sleep so much that first year anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's broken is an economy that forces a majority of parents to work full-time in order to make ends meet.

This. Institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. It’s just a sad result of our economic system.

I agree totally that institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. However, while the economic system often seems to make this inevitable for many families, I also wonder why so many people do not consider this hard fact when planning, or failing to plan, their families. The attitude in this country seems to be that everyone is entitled to have as many children as they want rather than encouraging people to figure out what they actually can afford, what daycare options they can reasonably plan for, before bringing children into the world. So many new mothers and many new fathers as well are quite surprised by how much they would prefer to care for their own infants at least the first few years but find they have failed to anticipate this and therefore can't economically find a way to do it.

So you anticipated all this ahead of time? I feel like there was so much I didn’t know about parenting, and how parenting would change me, until I was actually a parent.

Also the problem is if everyone did as you say and only have kids they could “afford” the birth rate would likely drop pretty dramatically.

Unlike many parents today I prioritized my desire to care for my own children when they were too young to go to full time school and so did my husband. We are not professionals and not the least bit affluent. Even so, we made it work for us because it was a high priority. I know other families who have done the same. It's not easy, but it is possible. For instance, I currently know a young family where the husband works night shifts and the wife works a few shifts as a server in a restaurant. They take care of their baby themselves while the other is working. They don't want anyone else caring for their baby so they found a way to avoid that. They live in a small house in a nice neighborhood. They struggle but it is worth it for them. Nannies and au pairs are not an option. They didn't know much about parenting before they had kids either but when they met their baby they did not want other people taking care of him. They don't plan to have another child but might change their minds eventually if their economic situation improves.

That's fine if it's their preference. We prefer to have time together as a family. That honestly does not sound ideal to me, compared to some time in daycare. I know someone who did something similar (Dr who switched to night shifts) and it was really grueling - it meant that during the day when she was watching her kids, it was on very little sleep.

My parents worked opposite shifts for years (both nurses at a hospital). Their marriage was not great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fact that 45K for two kids sounds reasonable does not obviate the problem that it’s unaffordable for most. Unless we only want Rich people having kids (and workers earning peanuts) we need a better solution.

Most people under a certain income bracket don’t pay for daycare. They hav family members watch the kids or older siblings watch the kids.

This. And they do shift work.

Yup. But DCUMers lose their damn minds every time this is suggested when they complain they can’t afford childcare.

“But…but….I’m ENTITLED to make 6+ figures at a cushy desk job, only on the schedule I prefer, and I simply *cannot* work opposite shifts with my spouse to save on childcare anyway, because I must spend every waking moment with my spouse fOr mY mEnTaL hEaLtH.”

OK, then find a way to pay for that childcare and quit whining.

You think people with professional jobs should just quit and take a job with shiftwork so they can avoid using childcare?

Two working professionals who can't afford Kindercare? Yes, if they can't afford rent on a small one bedroom apartment and daycare for one child on two professional salaries, then they are woefully underpaid and should seek other work.

It's not just about affording, it's whether institutionalized care for a young child is appropriate. With the expansion of telework and remote work, there's no reason many professional parents cant keep their baby at home and trade off for a few months anyway. I have friends who are planning to do this for the first year- one parent has a very flexible (maxi-flex) job and can fit in their hours at any time of the day. The other has less flexibility but enough. Babies sleep so much that first year anyway.

Sorry but that's horrible. I did it during covid when daycares were closed - traded off w my husband during the day and made up hours at night. It was constant bickering w my husband about who "got" to work when, trying to do calls during naptime just to have the baby wake up ten minutes in, staying up late every night to try to finish what I couldn't do during the day.

If you have any kind of real job you are going to be completely exhausted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's broken is an economy that forces a majority of parents to work full-time in order to make ends meet.

This. Institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. It’s just a sad result of our economic system.

I agree totally that institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. However, while the economic system often seems to make this inevitable for many families, I also wonder why so many people do not consider this hard fact when planning, or failing to plan, their families. The attitude in this country seems to be that everyone is entitled to have as many children as they want rather than encouraging people to figure out what they actually can afford, what daycare options they can reasonably plan for, before bringing children into the world. So many new mothers and many new fathers as well are quite surprised by how much they would prefer to care for their own infants at least the first few years but find they have failed to anticipate this and therefore can't economically find a way to do it.

So you anticipated all this ahead of time? I feel like there was so much I didn’t know about parenting, and how parenting would change me, until I was actually a parent.

Also the problem is if everyone did as you say and only have kids they could “afford” the birth rate would likely drop pretty dramatically.

Unlike many parents today I prioritized my desire to care for my own children when they were too young to go to full time school and so did my husband. We are not professionals and not the least bit affluent. Even so, we made it work for us because it was a high priority. I know other families who have done the same. It's not easy, but it is possible. For instance, I currently know a young family where the husband works night shifts and the wife works a few shifts as a server in a restaurant. They take care of their baby themselves while the other is working. They don't want anyone else caring for their baby so they found a way to avoid that. They live in a small house in a nice neighborhood. They struggle but it is worth it for them. Nannies and au pairs are not an option. They didn't know much about parenting before they had kids either but when they met their baby they did not want other people taking care of him. They don't plan to have another child but might change their minds eventually if their economic situation improves.

That's fine if it's their preference. We prefer to have time together as a family. That honestly does not sound ideal to me, compared to some time in daycare. I know someone who did something similar (Dr who switched to night shifts) and it was really grueling - it meant that during the day when she was watching her kids, it was on very little sleep.

My parents worked opposite shifts for years (both nurses at a hospital). Their marriage was not great.

Yeah to me that sounds like a terrible approach

But what do I know, my kids have been in daycare and aftercare (sorry, "institutionalized childcare") since 12 weeks. They seem happy and smart and well-adjusted but I'm sure it's just a matter of time until they kill me in my sleep

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's broken is an economy that forces a majority of parents to work full-time in order to make ends meet.

This. Institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. It’s just a sad result of our economic system.

I agree totally that institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. However, while the economic system often seems to make this inevitable for many families, I also wonder why so many people do not consider this hard fact when planning, or failing to plan, their families. The attitude in this country seems to be that everyone is entitled to have as many children as they want rather than encouraging people to figure out what they actually can afford, what daycare options they can reasonably plan for, before bringing children into the world. So many new mothers and many new fathers as well are quite surprised by how much they would prefer to care for their own infants at least the first few years but find they have failed to anticipate this and therefore can't economically find a way to do it.

So you anticipated all this ahead of time? I feel like there was so much I didn’t know about parenting, and how parenting would change me, until I was actually a parent.

Also the problem is if everyone did as you say and only have kids they could “afford” the birth rate would likely drop pretty dramatically.

Unlike many parents today I prioritized my desire to care for my own children when they were too young to go to full time school and so did my husband. We are not professionals and not the least bit affluent. Even so, we made it work for us because it was a high priority. I know other families who have done the same. It's not easy, but it is possible. For instance, I currently know a young family where the husband works night shifts and the wife works a few shifts as a server in a restaurant. They take care of their baby themselves while the other is working. They don't want anyone else caring for their baby so they found a way to avoid that. They live in a small house in a nice neighborhood. They struggle but it is worth it for them. Nannies and au pairs are not an option. They didn't know much about parenting before they had kids either but when they met their baby they did not want other people taking care of him. They don't plan to have another child but might change their minds eventually if their economic situation improves.

That's fine if it's their preference. We prefer to have time together as a family. That honestly does not sound ideal to me, compared to some time in daycare. I know someone who did something similar (Dr who switched to night shifts) and it was really grueling - it meant that during the day when she was watching her kids, it was on very little sleep.

My parents worked opposite shifts for years (both nurses at a hospital). Their marriage was not great.

Yeah to me that sounds like a terrible approach

But what do I know, my kids have been in daycare and aftercare (sorry, "institutionalized childcare") since 12 weeks. They seem happy and smart and well-adjusted but I'm sure it's just a matter of time until they kill me in my sleep

They’ve definitely learned horrible things - like how to socialize without parental oversight

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fact that 45K for two kids sounds reasonable does not obviate the problem that it’s unaffordable for most. Unless we only want Rich people having kids (and workers earning peanuts) we need a better solution.

Most people under a certain income bracket don’t pay for daycare. They hav family members watch the kids or older siblings watch the kids.

This. And they do shift work.

Yup. But DCUMers lose their damn minds every time this is suggested when they complain they can’t afford childcare.

“But…but….I’m ENTITLED to make 6+ figures at a cushy desk job, only on the schedule I prefer, and I simply *cannot* work opposite shifts with my spouse to save on childcare anyway, because I must spend every waking moment with my spouse fOr mY mEnTaL hEaLtH.”

OK, then find a way to pay for that childcare and quit whining.

You think people with professional jobs should just quit and take a job with shiftwork so they can avoid using childcare?

Two working professionals who can't afford Kindercare? Yes, if they can't afford rent on a small one bedroom apartment and daycare for one child on two professional salaries, then they are woefully underpaid and should seek other work.

It's not just about affording, it's whether institutionalized care for a young child is appropriate. With the expansion of telework and remote work, there's no reason many professional parents cant keep their baby at home and trade off for a few months anyway. I have friends who are planning to do this for the first year- one parent has a very flexible (maxi-flex) job and can fit in their hours at any time of the day. The other has less flexibility but enough. Babies sleep so much that first year anyway.

Sorry but that's horrible. I did it during covid when daycares were closed - traded off w my husband during the day and made up hours at night. It was constant bickering w my husband about who "got" to work when, trying to do calls during naptime just to have the baby wake up ten minutes in, staying up late every night to try to finish what I couldn't do during the day.

If you have any kind of real job you are going to be completely exhausted.

Yeah, a lot of us have done this in pretty recent memory, you need actual leave or childcare, teleworking in the middle of the night is not sustainable. (Yes to arguing about who "got to work"! Man.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fact that 45K for two kids sounds reasonable does not obviate the problem that it’s unaffordable for most. Unless we only want Rich people having kids (and workers earning peanuts) we need a better solution.

Most people under a certain income bracket don’t pay for daycare. They hav family members watch the kids or older siblings watch the kids.

This. And they do shift work.

Yup. But DCUMers lose their damn minds every time this is suggested when they complain they can’t afford childcare.

“But…but….I’m ENTITLED to make 6+ figures at a cushy desk job, only on the schedule I prefer, and I simply *cannot* work opposite shifts with my spouse to save on childcare anyway, because I must spend every waking moment with my spouse fOr mY mEnTaL hEaLtH.”

OK, then find a way to pay for that childcare and quit whining.

You think people with professional jobs should just quit and take a job with shiftwork so they can avoid using childcare?

Two working professionals who can't afford Kindercare? Yes, if they can't afford rent on a small one bedroom apartment and daycare for one child on two professional salaries, then they are woefully underpaid and should seek other work.

It's not just about affording, it's whether institutionalized care for a young child is appropriate. With the expansion of telework and remote work, there's no reason many professional parents cant keep their baby at home and trade off for a few months anyway. I have friends who are planning to do this for the first year- one parent has a very flexible (maxi-flex) job and can fit in their hours at any time of the day. The other has less flexibility but enough. Babies sleep so much that first year anyway.

Sorry but that's horrible. I did it during covid when daycares were closed - traded off w my husband during the day and made up hours at night. It was constant bickering w my husband about who "got" to work when, trying to do calls during naptime just to have the baby wake up ten minutes in, staying up late every night to try to finish what I couldn't do during the day.

If you have any kind of real job you are going to be completely exhausted.

Yeah, a lot of us have done this in pretty recent memory, you need actual leave or childcare, teleworking in the middle of the night is not sustainable. (Yes to arguing about who "got to work"! Man.)

+1 Amen

I was about to have a breakdown after 4 months

When DD went back to daycare we had started early intervention because she was late talker. Very soon after she started her speech exploded. Not a coincidence according to her speech therapist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fact that 45K for two kids sounds reasonable does not obviate the problem that it’s unaffordable for most. Unless we only want Rich people having kids (and workers earning peanuts) we need a better solution.

Most people under a certain income bracket don’t pay for daycare. They hav family members watch the kids or older siblings watch the kids.

This. And they do shift work.

Yup. But DCUMers lose their damn minds every time this is suggested when they complain they can’t afford childcare.

“But…but….I’m ENTITLED to make 6+ figures at a cushy desk job, only on the schedule I prefer, and I simply *cannot* work opposite shifts with my spouse to save on childcare anyway, because I must spend every waking moment with my spouse fOr mY mEnTaL hEaLtH.”

OK, then find a way to pay for that childcare and quit whining.

You think people with professional jobs should just quit and take a job with shiftwork so they can avoid using childcare?

Two working professionals who can't afford Kindercare? Yes, if they can't afford rent on a small one bedroom apartment and daycare for one child on two professional salaries, then they are woefully underpaid and should seek other work.

It's not just about affording, it's whether institutionalized care for a young child is appropriate. With the expansion of telework and remote work, there's no reason many professional parents cant keep their baby at home and trade off for a few months anyway. I have friends who are planning to do this for the first year- one parent has a very flexible (maxi-flex) job and can fit in their hours at any time of the day. The other has less flexibility but enough. Babies sleep so much that first year anyway.

Lol no. This is so much worse than daycare. Both of my kids were in from infant hood to kindergarten. It was better for all of us than what you are suggesting. As others have said, plenty of us had to do the maxi-flex childcare shifts during Covid and KNOW it doesn’t work. I notice you said you friends are planning to do this, not that they did it and it went well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fact that 45K for two kids sounds reasonable does not obviate the problem that it’s unaffordable for most. Unless we only want Rich people having kids (and workers earning peanuts) we need a better solution.

Most people under a certain income bracket don’t pay for daycare. They hav family members watch the kids or older siblings watch the kids.

This. And they do shift work.

Yup. But DCUMers lose their damn minds every time this is suggested when they complain they can’t afford childcare.

“But…but….I’m ENTITLED to make 6+ figures at a cushy desk job, only on the schedule I prefer, and I simply *cannot* work opposite shifts with my spouse to save on childcare anyway, because I must spend every waking moment with my spouse fOr mY mEnTaL hEaLtH.”

OK, then find a way to pay for that childcare and quit whining.

You think people with professional jobs should just quit and take a job with shiftwork so they can avoid using childcare?

Two working professionals who can't afford Kindercare? Yes, if they can't afford rent on a small one bedroom apartment and daycare for one child on two professional salaries, then they are woefully underpaid and should seek other work.

It's not just about affording, it's whether institutionalized care for a young child is appropriate. With the expansion of telework and remote work, there's no reason many professional parents cant keep their baby at home and trade off for a few months anyway. I have friends who are planning to do this for the first year- one parent has a very flexible (maxi-flex) job and can fit in their hours at any time of the day. The other has less flexibility but enough. Babies sleep so much that first year anyway.

Sorry but that's horrible. I did it during covid when daycares were closed - traded off w my husband during the day and made up hours at night. It was constant bickering w my husband about who "got" to work when, trying to do calls during naptime just to have the baby wake up ten minutes in, staying up late every night to try to finish what I couldn't do during the day.

If you have any kind of real job you are going to be completely exhausted.

Yeah, a lot of us have done this in pretty recent memory, you need actual leave or childcare, teleworking in the middle of the night is not sustainable. (Yes to arguing about who "got to work"! Man.)

+1 Amen

I was about to have a breakdown after 4 months

When DD went back to daycare we had started early intervention because she was late talker. Very soon after she started her speech exploded. Not a coincidence according to her speech therapist.

That doesn't sound like a real late talker. Real late talkers are 4-5-6-7-8. It does sound like a coincidence. Some kids just talk later. Some kids like mine have real language disorders.

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Anonymous wrote:The fact that 45K for two kids sounds reasonable does not obviate the problem that it’s unaffordable for most. Unless we only want Rich people having kids (and workers earning peanuts) we need a better solution.

Most people under a certain income bracket don’t pay for daycare. They hav family members watch the kids or older siblings watch the kids.

This. And they do shift work.

Yup. But DCUMers lose their damn minds every time this is suggested when they complain they can’t afford childcare.

“But…but….I’m ENTITLED to make 6+ figures at a cushy desk job, only on the schedule I prefer, and I simply *cannot* work opposite shifts with my spouse to save on childcare anyway, because I must spend every waking moment with my spouse fOr mY mEnTaL hEaLtH.”

OK, then find a way to pay for that childcare and quit whining.

You think people with professional jobs should just quit and take a job with shiftwork so they can avoid using childcare?

Two working professionals who can't afford Kindercare? Yes, if they can't afford rent on a small one bedroom apartment and daycare for one child on two professional salaries, then they are woefully underpaid and should seek other work.

It's not just about affording, it's whether institutionalized care for a young child is appropriate. With the expansion of telework and remote work, there's no reason many professional parents cant keep their baby at home and trade off for a few months anyway. I have friends who are planning to do this for the first year- one parent has a very flexible (maxi-flex) job and can fit in their hours at any time of the day. The other has less flexibility but enough. Babies sleep so much that first year anyway.

Sorry but that's horrible. I did it during covid when daycares were closed - traded off w my husband during the day and made up hours at night. It was constant bickering w my husband about who "got" to work when, trying to do calls during naptime just to have the baby wake up ten minutes in, staying up late every night to try to finish what I couldn't do during the day.

If you have any kind of real job you are going to be completely exhausted.

Yeah, a lot of us have done this in pretty recent memory, you need actual leave or childcare, teleworking in the middle of the night is not sustainable. (Yes to arguing about who "got to work"! Man.)

+1 Amen

I was about to have a breakdown after 4 months

When DD went back to daycare we had started early intervention because she was late talker. Very soon after she started her speech exploded. Not a coincidence according to her speech therapist.

That doesn't sound like a real late talker. Real late talkers are 4-5-6-7-8. It does sound like a coincidence. Some kids just talk later. Some kids like mine have real language disorders.

Well if you say so then the speech therapist must be wrong. What does she know, anyway. She is probably in league with the Big Daycare Industry.