NY Mag: Daycare is Broken

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fact that 45K for two kids sounds reasonable does not obviate the problem that it’s unaffordable for most. Unless we only want Rich people having kids (and workers earning peanuts) we need a better solution.

Most people under a certain income bracket don’t pay for daycare. They hav family members watch the kids or older siblings watch the kids.

This. And they do shift work.

Yup. But DCUMers lose their damn minds every time this is suggested when they complain they can’t afford childcare.

“But…but….I’m ENTITLED to make 6+ figures at a cushy desk job, only on the schedule I prefer, and I simply *cannot* work opposite shifts with my spouse to save on childcare anyway, because I must spend every waking moment with my spouse fOr mY mEnTaL hEaLtH.”

OK, then find a way to pay for that childcare and quit whining.

You think people with professional jobs should just quit and take a job with shiftwork so they can avoid using childcare?

They need to plan better, if they want kids and have no family help, cut the luxuries or go into a higher paying field.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's broken is an economy that forces a majority of parents to work full-time in order to make ends meet.

This. Institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. It’s just a sad result of our economic system.

I agree totally that institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. However, while the economic system often seems to make this inevitable for many families, I also wonder why so many people do not consider this hard fact when planning, or failing to plan, their families. The attitude in this country seems to be that everyone is entitled to have as many children as they want rather than encouraging people to figure out what they actually can afford, what daycare options they can reasonably plan for, before bringing children into the world. So many new mothers and many new fathers as well are quite surprised by how much they would prefer to care for their own infants at least the first few years but find they have failed to anticipate this and therefore can't economically find a way to do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The writer AND the editors (plural) on this must all be new parents. That’s the only people to whom this is news. It’s really hard to understand how broken childcare is in America until you have kids.

Every new parent goes through this. Just wait until the writer realizes that things don't get much cheaper when they enter school because you're paying for summer camp and activities and after care and then you have to really be saving for college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's broken is an economy that forces a majority of parents to work full-time in order to make ends meet.

This. Institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. It’s just a sad result of our economic system.

I agree totally that institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. However, while the economic system often seems to make this inevitable for many families, I also wonder why so many people do not consider this hard fact when planning, or failing to plan, their families. The attitude in this country seems to be that everyone is entitled to have as many children as they want rather than encouraging people to figure out what they actually can afford, what daycare options they can reasonably plan for, before bringing children into the world. So many new mothers and many new fathers as well are quite surprised by how much they would prefer to care for their own infants at least the first few years but find they have failed to anticipate this and therefore can't economically find a way to do it.

So you anticipated all this ahead of time? I feel like there was so much I didn’t know about parenting, and how parenting would change me, until I was actually a parent.

Also the problem is if everyone did as you say and only have kids they could “afford” the birth rate would likely drop pretty dramatically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's broken is an economy that forces a majority of parents to work full-time in order to make ends meet.

This. Institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. It’s just a sad result of our economic system.

I agree totally that institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. However, while the economic system often seems to make this inevitable for many families, I also wonder why so many people do not consider this hard fact when planning, or failing to plan, their families. The attitude in this country seems to be that everyone is entitled to have as many children as they want rather than encouraging people to figure out what they actually can afford, what daycare options they can reasonably plan for, before bringing children into the world. So many new mothers and many new fathers as well are quite surprised by how much they would prefer to care for their own infants at least the first few years but find they have failed to anticipate this and therefore can't economically find a way to do it.

I don't disagree with you, but would argue that this cuts both ways. I took time off when my child was born (and chose not to have another child) specifically because I did not want to put her in institutionalized care as an infant or toddler, nor did I want to do that with a subsequent child. We adjusted our financial planning to accommodate this and have never regretted it.

But I also have empathy for people who struggle with this because I know better than most that when you take time off to SAH, there are serious career consequences. It's really hard that these consequences almost entirely fall on women since that is most often who is going to stay home with a very young child due to breastfeeding and how infant bonding generally works. Plus men face a ton of stigma for taking time off. I get why not everyone is able to do this. And I'm not willing to argue that you should only have children if you can afford a full time nanny -- I think that's really limiting and classist.

We need to make it possible for middle and working class people to be good parents without having to rely on institutional care for very young kids. That means mandating longer parental leaves, creating more part-time options for parents of young kids, or maybe reconfiguring our social structure to enable extended family to help more with children.

The model of the dual-income family with kids in insitutationalized daycare was not invented by parents. It's the result of a very capitalist society that encourages people to move far from family in order to have profitable careers, and then to outsource childcare to professionals. It benefits corporations and people who sell things, because it puts more people into the workforce and increases family incomes to buy stuff. But families themselves have been complaining about this set up for decades now. A lot of people want out. But it's not something that can be solved via personal choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fact that 45K for two kids sounds reasonable does not obviate the problem that it’s unaffordable for most. Unless we only want Rich people having kids (and workers earning peanuts) we need a better solution.

Most people under a certain income bracket don’t pay for daycare. They hav family members watch the kids or older siblings watch the kids.

This. And they do shift work.

Yup. But DCUMers lose their damn minds every time this is suggested when they complain they can’t afford childcare.

“But…but….I’m ENTITLED to make 6+ figures at a cushy desk job, only on the schedule I prefer, and I simply *cannot* work opposite shifts with my spouse to save on childcare anyway, because I must spend every waking moment with my spouse fOr mY mEnTaL hEaLtH.”

OK, then find a way to pay for that childcare and quit whining.

You think people with professional jobs should just quit and take a job with shiftwork so they can avoid using childcare?

Two working professionals who can't afford Kindercare? Yes, if they can't afford rent on a small one bedroom apartment and daycare for one child on two professional salaries, then they are woefully underpaid and should seek other work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's broken is an economy that forces a majority of parents to work full-time in order to make ends meet.

This. Institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. It’s just a sad result of our economic system.

I agree totally that institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. However, while the economic system often seems to make this inevitable for many families, I also wonder why so many people do not consider this hard fact when planning, or failing to plan, their families. The attitude in this country seems to be that everyone is entitled to have as many children as they want rather than encouraging people to figure out what they actually can afford, what daycare options they can reasonably plan for, before bringing children into the world. So many new mothers and many new fathers as well are quite surprised by how much they would prefer to care for their own infants at least the first few years but find they have failed to anticipate this and therefore can't economically find a way to do it.

So you anticipated all this ahead of time? I feel like there was so much I didn’t know about parenting, and how parenting would change me, until I was actually a parent.

Also the problem is if everyone did as you say and only have kids they could “afford” the birth rate would likely drop pretty dramatically.

It dropped a LOT right after the 2008 recession and never came back, because people can't afford daycare. But there are too many people in the world for the planet anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's broken is an economy that forces a majority of parents to work full-time in order to make ends meet.

This. Institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. It’s just a sad result of our economic system.

I agree totally that institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. However, while the economic system often seems to make this inevitable for many families, I also wonder why so many people do not consider this hard fact when planning, or failing to plan, their families. The attitude in this country seems to be that everyone is entitled to have as many children as they want rather than encouraging people to figure out what they actually can afford, what daycare options they can reasonably plan for, before bringing children into the world. So many new mothers and many new fathers as well are quite surprised by how much they would prefer to care for their own infants at least the first few years but find they have failed to anticipate this and therefore can't economically find a way to do it.

So you anticipated all this ahead of time? I feel like there was so much I didn’t know about parenting, and how parenting would change me, until I was actually a parent.

Also the problem is if everyone did as you say and only have kids they could “afford” the birth rate would likely drop pretty dramatically.

Unlike many parents today I prioritized my desire to care for my own children when they were too young to go to full time school and so did my husband. We are not professionals and not the least bit affluent. Even so, we made it work for us because it was a high priority. I know other families who have done the same. It's not easy, but it is possible. For instance, I currently know a young family where the husband works night shifts and the wife works a few shifts as a server in a restaurant. They take care of their baby themselves while the other is working. They don't want anyone else caring for their baby so they found a way to avoid that. They live in a small house in a nice neighborhood. They struggle but it is worth it for them. Nannies and au pairs are not an option. They didn't know much about parenting before they had kids either but when they met their baby they did not want other people taking care of him. They don't plan to have another child but might change their minds eventually if their economic situation improves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's broken is an economy that forces a majority of parents to work full-time in order to make ends meet.

This. Institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. It’s just a sad result of our economic system.

I agree totally that institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. However, while the economic system often seems to make this inevitable for many families, I also wonder why so many people do not consider this hard fact when planning, or failing to plan, their families. The attitude in this country seems to be that everyone is entitled to have as many children as they want rather than encouraging people to figure out what they actually can afford, what daycare options they can reasonably plan for, before bringing children into the world. So many new mothers and many new fathers as well are quite surprised by how much they would prefer to care for their own infants at least the first few years but find they have failed to anticipate this and therefore can't economically find a way to do it.

So you anticipated all this ahead of time? I feel like there was so much I didn’t know about parenting, and how parenting would change me, until I was actually a parent.

Also the problem is if everyone did as you say and only have kids they could “afford” the birth rate would likely drop pretty dramatically.

Unlike many parents today I prioritized my desire to care for my own children when they were too young to go to full time school and so did my husband. We are not professionals and not the least bit affluent. Even so, we made it work for us because it was a high priority. I know other families who have done the same. It's not easy, but it is possible. For instance, I currently know a young family where the husband works night shifts and the wife works a few shifts as a server in a restaurant. They take care of their baby themselves while the other is working. They don't want anyone else caring for their baby so they found a way to avoid that. They live in a small house in a nice neighborhood. They struggle but it is worth it for them. Nannies and au pairs are not an option. They didn't know much about parenting before they had kids either but when they met their baby they did not want other people taking care of him. They don't plan to have another child but might change their minds eventually if their economic situation improves.

They have a small house in a nice DMV neighborhood working shifts at a restaurant? I call BS on that one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's broken is an economy that forces a majority of parents to work full-time in order to make ends meet.

This. Institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. It’s just a sad result of our economic system.

I agree totally that institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. However, while the economic system often seems to make this inevitable for many families, I also wonder why so many people do not consider this hard fact when planning, or failing to plan, their families. The attitude in this country seems to be that everyone is entitled to have as many children as they want rather than encouraging people to figure out what they actually can afford, what daycare options they can reasonably plan for, before bringing children into the world. So many new mothers and many new fathers as well are quite surprised by how much they would prefer to care for their own infants at least the first few years but find they have failed to anticipate this and therefore can't economically find a way to do it.

So you anticipated all this ahead of time? I feel like there was so much I didn’t know about parenting, and how parenting would change me, until I was actually a parent.

Also the problem is if everyone did as you say and only have kids they could “afford” the birth rate would likely drop pretty dramatically.

It dropped a LOT right after the 2008 recession and never came back, because people can't afford daycare. But there are too many people in the world for the planet anyway.

Can't disagree with you there, but there are consequences with dropping birth rates at the country level. You have to be ok with increased immigration, but that is unpopular with a lot of Americans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's broken is an economy that forces a majority of parents to work full-time in order to make ends meet.

This. Institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. It’s just a sad result of our economic system.

I agree totally that institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. However, while the economic system often seems to make this inevitable for many families, I also wonder why so many people do not consider this hard fact when planning, or failing to plan, their families. The attitude in this country seems to be that everyone is entitled to have as many children as they want rather than encouraging people to figure out what they actually can afford, what daycare options they can reasonably plan for, before bringing children into the world. So many new mothers and many new fathers as well are quite surprised by how much they would prefer to care for their own infants at least the first few years but find they have failed to anticipate this and therefore can't economically find a way to do it.

I don't disagree with you, but would argue that this cuts both ways. I took time off when my child was born (and chose not to have another child) specifically because I did not want to put her in institutionalized care as an infant or toddler, nor did I want to do that with a subsequent child. We adjusted our financial planning to accommodate this and have never regretted it.

But I also have empathy for people who struggle with this because I know better than most that when you take time off to SAH, there are serious career consequences. It's really hard that these consequences almost entirely fall on women since that is most often who is going to stay home with a very young child due to breastfeeding and how infant bonding generally works. Plus men face a ton of stigma for taking time off. I get why not everyone is able to do this. And I'm not willing to argue that you should only have children if you can afford a full time nanny -- I think that's really limiting and classist.

We need to make it possible for middle and working class people to be good parents without having to rely on institutional care for very young kids. That means mandating longer parental leaves, creating more part-time options for parents of young kids, or maybe reconfiguring our social structure to enable extended family to help more with children.

The model of the dual-income family with kids in insitutationalized daycare was not invented by parents. It's the result of a very capitalist society that encourages people to move far from family in order to have profitable careers, and then to outsource childcare to professionals. It benefits corporations and people who sell things, because it puts more people into the workforce and increases family incomes to buy stuff. But families themselves have been complaining about this set up for decades now. A lot of people want out. But it's not something that can be solved via personal choice.

+1. I also think that American society never really adapted to more women attending college and subsequently having careers. We encourage our daughters to pursue their dreams and goals but then don't offer any support to maintain both a career and a family. There aren't a lot of fields where you can take 1-2 years off with each kid and easily jump back in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's broken is an economy that forces a majority of parents to work full-time in order to make ends meet.

This. Institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. It’s just a sad result of our economic system.

I agree totally that institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. However, while the economic system often seems to make this inevitable for many families, I also wonder why so many people do not consider this hard fact when planning, or failing to plan, their families. The attitude in this country seems to be that everyone is entitled to have as many children as they want rather than encouraging people to figure out what they actually can afford, what daycare options they can reasonably plan for, before bringing children into the world. So many new mothers and many new fathers as well are quite surprised by how much they would prefer to care for their own infants at least the first few years but find they have failed to anticipate this and therefore can't economically find a way to do it.

I don't disagree with you, but would argue that this cuts both ways. I took time off when my child was born (and chose not to have another child) specifically because I did not want to put her in institutionalized care as an infant or toddler, nor did I want to do that with a subsequent child. We adjusted our financial planning to accommodate this and have never regretted it.

But I also have empathy for people who struggle with this because I know better than most that when you take time off to SAH, there are serious career consequences. It's really hard that these consequences almost entirely fall on women since that is most often who is going to stay home with a very young child due to breastfeeding and how infant bonding generally works. Plus men face a ton of stigma for taking time off. I get why not everyone is able to do this. And I'm not willing to argue that you should only have children if you can afford a full time nanny -- I think that's really limiting and classist.

We need to make it possible for middle and working class people to be good parents without having to rely on institutional care for very young kids. That means mandating longer parental leaves, creating more part-time options for parents of young kids, or maybe reconfiguring our social structure to enable extended family to help more with children.

The model of the dual-income family with kids in insitutationalized daycare was not invented by parents. It's the result of a very capitalist society that encourages people to move far from family in order to have profitable careers, and then to outsource childcare to professionals. It benefits corporations and people who sell things, because it puts more people into the workforce and increases family incomes to buy stuff. But families themselves have been complaining about this set up for decades now. A lot of people want out. But it's not something that can be solved via personal choice.

+1. I also think that American society never really adapted to more women attending college and subsequently having careers. We encourage our daughters to pursue their dreams and goals but then don't offer any support to maintain both a career and a family. There aren't a lot of fields where you can take 1-2 years off with each kid and easily jump back in.

Actually there are! Most industries do. There are exceptions, but not many. The US has one of the most flexible labor markets in the world. Paid parental leave is way more necessary in Western European countries where it’s not as easy to land a permanent job and reenter the labor market. I’d argue it’s one of a few main reasons we don’t have government paid leave.

The other sad reality is that an American woman who wants to be home with a 1 year old probably wants to be home with a 3 year old. Parental leave only gets you so far and the reality is it’s hard to have a productive workforce if you gave key employees leaving for years to have a child. The US has high productivity rates and the higher salaries here reflect that. There would have to be a huge cultural shit for most American women to be working with a one or two year old child like they do in Europe.

[Anonymous]

I have enormous respect for women who SAH. I could not, and daycare has been a huge blessing for us. We were lucky to find a wonderful center with great ratios and warm, caring teachers (I have an early childhood expert in my family who has seen a lot of child care settings and confirmed this). If you look at the research (which is all observational), there are potentially positive and negative outcomes from daycare, but it's important to note that:

- family and home characteristics have a bigger impact than whether the child is in child care
- if the child care is high quality then the negative impacts are lessened.

Unfortunately because of the lack of investment in child care, it is extremely expensive and quality is hit or miss, and that's really bad for kids and for families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's broken is an economy that forces a majority of parents to work full-time in order to make ends meet.

This. Institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. It’s just a sad result of our economic system.

I agree totally that institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. However, while the economic system often seems to make this inevitable for many families, I also wonder why so many people do not consider this hard fact when planning, or failing to plan, their families. The attitude in this country seems to be that everyone is entitled to have as many children as they want rather than encouraging people to figure out what they actually can afford, what daycare options they can reasonably plan for, before bringing children into the world. So many new mothers and many new fathers as well are quite surprised by how much they would prefer to care for their own infants at least the first few years but find they have failed to anticipate this and therefore can't economically find a way to do it.

So you anticipated all this ahead of time? I feel like there was so much I didn’t know about parenting, and how parenting would change me, until I was actually a parent.

Also the problem is if everyone did as you say and only have kids they could “afford” the birth rate would likely drop pretty dramatically.

Unlike many parents today I prioritized my desire to care for my own children when they were too young to go to full time school and so did my husband. We are not professionals and not the least bit affluent. Even so, we made it work for us because it was a high priority. I know other families who have done the same. It's not easy, but it is possible. For instance, I currently know a young family where the husband works night shifts and the wife works a few shifts as a server in a restaurant. They take care of their baby themselves while the other is working. They don't want anyone else caring for their baby so they found a way to avoid that. They live in a small house in a nice neighborhood. They struggle but it is worth it for them. Nannies and au pairs are not an option. They didn't know much about parenting before they had kids either but when they met their baby they did not want other people taking care of him. They don't plan to have another child but might change their minds eventually if their economic situation improves.

That's fine if it's their preference. We prefer to have time together as a family. That honestly does not sound ideal to me, compared to some time in daycare. I know someone who did something similar (Dr who switched to night shifts) and it was really grueling - it meant that during the day when she was watching her kids, it was on very little sleep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's broken is an economy that forces a majority of parents to work full-time in order to make ends meet.

This. Institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. It’s just a sad result of our economic system.

I agree totally that institutionalized child care is never a good thing for babies and young children. However, while the economic system often seems to make this inevitable for many families, I also wonder why so many people do not consider this hard fact when planning, or failing to plan, their families. The attitude in this country seems to be that everyone is entitled to have as many children as they want rather than encouraging people to figure out what they actually can afford, what daycare options they can reasonably plan for, before bringing children into the world. So many new mothers and many new fathers as well are quite surprised by how much they would prefer to care for their own infants at least the first few years but find they have failed to anticipate this and therefore can't economically find a way to do it.

So you anticipated all this ahead of time? I feel like there was so much I didn’t know about parenting, and how parenting would change me, until I was actually a parent.

Also the problem is if everyone did as you say and only have kids they could “afford” the birth rate would likely drop pretty dramatically.

Unlike many parents today I prioritized my desire to care for my own children when they were too young to go to full time school and so did my husband. We are not professionals and not the least bit affluent. Even so, we made it work for us because it was a high priority. I know other families who have done the same. It's not easy, but it is possible. For instance, I currently know a young family where the husband works night shifts and the wife works a few shifts as a server in a restaurant. They take care of their baby themselves while the other is working. They don't want anyone else caring for their baby so they found a way to avoid that. They live in a small house in a nice neighborhood. They struggle but it is worth it for them. Nannies and au pairs are not an option. They didn't know much about parenting before they had kids either but when they met their baby they did not want other people taking care of him. They don't plan to have another child but might change their minds eventually if their economic situation improves.

That's fine if it's their preference. We prefer to have time together as a family. That honestly does not sound ideal to me, compared to some time in daycare. I know someone who did something similar (Dr who switched to night shifts) and it was really grueling - it meant that during the day when she was watching her kids, it was on very little sleep.

+1 I would be a terrible parent under those circumstances.