Is your church against celebrating Halloween and trick or treat?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another appropriated holiday. Samhain is a very sacred holiday in my faith. It’s the day the veil is at its thinnest. We communicate with and honor our deceased ancestors. Costumes were meant to help the living blend in with the dead. We carve Jack-o-lanterns to scare away any unwanted guests. It is our most important festival. I love that we celebrate Halloween in the US. But I hate how evangelical Christians pretend it isn’t a pagan/Wiccan holiday. Same with Yule (Christmas). Same with Ostara (Easter). All the so-called “Christian” holidays were appropriated.

If you attend a church that celebrates Samhain (Halloween), your church is 10O% hypocritical. It is a pagan holiday.

Do you think only evangelical Christians “pretend” Halloween isn’t your sacred holiday? All other religions, the non-religious, and everyone in between vocally acknowledge your sacred holiday?

This forum is a joke…now evangelicals aren’t acknowledging Samhain!

What I hate is the hypocrisy. It is a pagan holiday. Pretending it isn’t is ridiculous. I actually respect the churches that don’t celebrate it at all. At least they acknowledge that the holiday is not one evangelicals should participate in.

Pagans sacrificed humans and animals, and practiced cannibalism. Do you do such things to authentically worship your most sacred holiday?

Do you smear yourself with the blood of sacrificed animals and humans on Yule?

Well at my church we drink blood and eat Jesus’ body.

Well, you aren’t putting live, screaming infants on altars and murdering them to appease angry gods…which is why Jesus wants us to eat crackers and drink tiny cups of grape juice, instead.

pp isn’t a pagan. pagans needed blood to worship.

Um. God told Abraham to put his baby on an Alter as a sacrifice. 😂

Um. No. That was a test of faith

It still happened. And it was a di@k move. I don’t believe God ever told him to do it. Child abuse isn’t something a loving God would ever be part of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a Christian, but I'm not concerned about this as a Christian. I have no problem with "baptizing" useful pagan customs. I have a problem with these stories, because they fail as history. There simply isn't evidence for them, and people believe them because they show up on the History Channel between showings of Ancient Aliens.

Translation: I refuse to believe the scholars, including contemporaneous writings by Bede, because it disagrees with my presuppositions, and I will say they fail as history but provide no evidence of that claim, and hope no one calls me on my bullshit.

[Anonymous]

Maybe we need a witch AMA. It is that time of year. 👻

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It makes no sense to argue about the English word, because nobody was speaking English for centuries after the crucifixion. To spell it out: the English word couldn’t have had anything to do with establishing the timing of the festival in the ancient world (Passover did). For the first few centuries of Christianity, it was called Pascha (Passover) in Latin and Greek, and Paques in French. After that, there’s good consensus (except among pagans and atheists) that the English word Easter came to us first from the Latin designation of Easter week as in albis (plural of alba or dawn) which was translated into old high German as Eostarum (also “dawn”).

Ēostre is not an English word. Fail. See the post above about Bede's writing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%92ostre

Ēosturmōnaþ (the equivalent of April), pagan Anglo-Saxons had held feasts in Ēostre's honour, but that this tradition had died out by his time, replaced by the Christian Paschal month, a celebration of the resurrection of Jesus.

If you disagree with that, change the wikipedia page and see what happens. Cite your sources if you want it to last.

Your turn. You’ve already been asked to explain why pagans have a monopoly on bunnies and eggs. What specific pagan traditions involving bunnies and eggs have been transmitted from pagan times in antiquity to the more modern version of paganism? While you’re at it, could you please explain the Wicca goat. TIA.

A monopoly? WTF are you talking about? We're talking about the cultural origins of these icons of the holiday. And I am a different poster who knows nothing about modern paganism and cares less than that about it.

You and Beade in the 8th century are out of step with a vast modern consensus. Which is that the Latin word for dawn (Alba) was translated to old high German for dawn (Eostarum), and from there to English, several centuries after the festival’s celebration timing and traditions were already well-established. Anybody can change a Wikipedia page, I’ve done it myself to correct errors, so have this source instead: https://www.britannica.com/topic/Easter-holiday

Can you say cultural supremacy? Otherwise, it’s utterly baffling that any thinking person would argue that English speakers who lived centuries after the crucifixion were responsible for establishing the traditions and timing in spring. No, what’s relevant is what the earliest Christians—the ones who actually established the traditions and spring timing pp is complaining about—and they didn’t call it Ēostre or any variants of that—they called it Pascha.

Finally, pagan pp claimed Christians stole eggs and bunnies from Pagans (the victimhood is strong with her). If that’s the case, she needs to show how eggs and bunnies were important icons in ancient paganism. Waving your hands and saying “but nature” is about as convincing as arguing pagans own the lunar calendar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another appropriated holiday. Samhain is a very sacred holiday in my faith. It’s the day the veil is at its thinnest. We communicate with and honor our deceased ancestors. Costumes were meant to help the living blend in with the dead. We carve Jack-o-lanterns to scare away any unwanted guests. It is our most important festival. I love that we celebrate Halloween in the US. But I hate how evangelical Christians pretend it isn’t a pagan/Wiccan holiday. Same with Yule (Christmas). Same with Ostara (Easter). All the so-called “Christian” holidays were appropriated.

If you attend a church that celebrates Samhain (Halloween), your church is 10O% hypocritical. It is a pagan holiday.

Do you think only evangelical Christians “pretend” Halloween isn’t your sacred holiday? All other religions, the non-religious, and everyone in between vocally acknowledge your sacred holiday?

This forum is a joke…now evangelicals aren’t acknowledging Samhain!

What I hate is the hypocrisy. It is a pagan holiday. Pretending it isn’t is ridiculous. I actually respect the churches that don’t celebrate it at all. At least they acknowledge that the holiday is not one evangelicals should participate in.

Trick or treating, pumpkins and the like are actually secular holidays and have nothing to do with scripture or liturgy.

Incorrect. Every tradition you listed is pagan in origin. Costumes were used to blend in with the deceased. Treats or tricks were a big part of the festival. Pumpkins were carved to scare evil spirits.

Seriously, it’s true that pumpkins and costumes have nothing to do with Christian scriptures or liturgy.

Halloween is a secular holiday today just like Christmas is secular for some people. Most Christians don’t care. Your victimhood on this is silly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another appropriated holiday. Samhain is a very sacred holiday in my faith. It’s the day the veil is at its thinnest. We communicate with and honor our deceased ancestors. Costumes were meant to help the living blend in with the dead. We carve Jack-o-lanterns to scare away any unwanted guests. It is our most important festival. I love that we celebrate Halloween in the US. But I hate how evangelical Christians pretend it isn’t a pagan/Wiccan holiday. Same with Yule (Christmas). Same with Ostara (Easter). All the so-called “Christian” holidays were appropriated.

If you attend a church that celebrates Samhain (Halloween), your church is 10O% hypocritical. It is a pagan holiday.

Do you think only evangelical Christians “pretend” Halloween isn’t your sacred holiday? All other religions, the non-religious, and everyone in between vocally acknowledge your sacred holiday?

This forum is a joke…now evangelicals aren’t acknowledging Samhain!

What I hate is the hypocrisy. It is a pagan holiday. Pretending it isn’t is ridiculous. I actually respect the churches that don’t celebrate it at all. At least they acknowledge that the holiday is not one evangelicals should participate in.

Trick or treating, pumpkins and the like are actually secular holidays and have nothing to do with scripture or liturgy.

Incorrect. Every tradition you listed is pagan in origin. Costumes were used to blend in with the deceased. Treats or tricks were a big part of the festival. Pumpkins were carved to scare evil spirits.

Seriously, it’s true that pumpkins and costumes have nothing to do with Christian scriptures or liturgy.

Halloween is a secular holiday today just like Christmas is secular for some people. Most Christians don’t care. Your victimhood on this is silly.

It’s not about being a victim. It’s about preserving tradition. It’s important to those of us who follow the path. I’m thrilled that others celebrate! I just wish they understood the why. These are sacred feasts and festivals. It would be like me celebrating Diwali without acknowledging anything other than the pretty lights and the food. We will attend a Diwali festival. We respect and understand the festival because it’s important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another appropriated holiday. Samhain is a very sacred holiday in my faith. It’s the day the veil is at its thinnest. We communicate with and honor our deceased ancestors. Costumes were meant to help the living blend in with the dead. We carve Jack-o-lanterns to scare away any unwanted guests. It is our most important festival. I love that we celebrate Halloween in the US. But I hate how evangelical Christians pretend it isn’t a pagan/Wiccan holiday. Same with Yule (Christmas). Same with Ostara (Easter). All the so-called “Christian” holidays were appropriated.

If you attend a church that celebrates Samhain (Halloween), your church is 10O% hypocritical. It is a pagan holiday.

Do you think only evangelical Christians “pretend” Halloween isn’t your sacred holiday? All other religions, the non-religious, and everyone in between vocally acknowledge your sacred holiday?

This forum is a joke…now evangelicals aren’t acknowledging Samhain!

What I hate is the hypocrisy. It is a pagan holiday. Pretending it isn’t is ridiculous. I actually respect the churches that don’t celebrate it at all. At least they acknowledge that the holiday is not one evangelicals should participate in.

Trick or treating, pumpkins and the like are actually secular holidays and have nothing to do with scripture or liturgy.

Incorrect. Every tradition you listed is pagan in origin. Costumes were used to blend in with the deceased. Treats or tricks were a big part of the festival. Pumpkins were carved to scare evil spirits.

Seriously, it’s true that pumpkins and costumes have nothing to do with Christian scriptures or liturgy.

Halloween is a secular holiday today just like Christmas is secular for some people. Most Christians don’t care. Your victimhood on this is silly.

It’s not about being a victim. It’s about preserving tradition. It’s important to those of us who follow the path. I’m thrilled that others celebrate! I just wish they understood the why. These are sacred feasts and festivals. It would be like me celebrating Diwali without acknowledging anything other than the pretty lights and the food. We will attend a Diwali festival. We respect and understand the festival because it’s important.

How do little kids dressing up in costumes detract from you preserving your tradition? Do you think this should be an opportunity for proselytizing? Most Christians ignore the secular Christmas celebrators, why can’t you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I lived in Carly, NC in the 1990's, The local evangelical and Catholic churches went full on with hating Halloween.

We were left pamphlets every Halloween how we were going to hell etc....

Then on Halloween, they came to the doors. They were horrific...

Catholic and evangelical people came to your house on halloween to tell you you were going to hell?

Yes, I was in my late 20's first child. OMG so scary.

The pamphlets were creepy and just awful. Worse than anything Halloween could bring.

Those people were not Catholic.

+1

That's not a Catholic thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another appropriated holiday. Samhain is a very sacred holiday in my faith. It’s the day the veil is at its thinnest. We communicate with and honor our deceased ancestors. Costumes were meant to help the living blend in with the dead. We carve Jack-o-lanterns to scare away any unwanted guests. It is our most important festival. I love that we celebrate Halloween in the US. But I hate how evangelical Christians pretend it isn’t a pagan/Wiccan holiday. Same with Yule (Christmas). Same with Ostara (Easter). All the so-called “Christian” holidays were appropriated.

If you attend a church that celebrates Samhain (Halloween), your church is 10O% hypocritical. It is a pagan holiday.

Do you think only evangelical Christians “pretend” Halloween isn’t your sacred holiday? All other religions, the non-religious, and everyone in between vocally acknowledge your sacred holiday?

This forum is a joke…now evangelicals aren’t acknowledging Samhain!

What I hate is the hypocrisy. It is a pagan holiday. Pretending it isn’t is ridiculous. I actually respect the churches that don’t celebrate it at all. At least they acknowledge that the holiday is not one evangelicals should participate in.

Trick or treating, pumpkins and the like are actually secular holidays and have nothing to do with scripture or liturgy.

Incorrect. Every tradition you listed is pagan in origin. Costumes were used to blend in with the deceased. Treats or tricks were a big part of the festival. Pumpkins were carved to scare evil spirits.

Seriously, it’s true that pumpkins and costumes have nothing to do with Christian scriptures or liturgy.

Halloween is a secular holiday today just like Christmas is secular for some people. Most Christians don’t care. Your victimhood on this is silly.

It’s not about being a victim. It’s about preserving tradition. It’s important to those of us who follow the path. I’m thrilled that others celebrate! I just wish they understood the why. These are sacred feasts and festivals. It would be like me celebrating Diwali without acknowledging anything other than the pretty lights and the food. We will attend a Diwali festival. We respect and understand the festival because it’s important.

Sure. So long as we also tell the little kids in ghost costumes about pagans sacrificing their children, killing chickens, and the rest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another appropriated holiday. Samhain is a very sacred holiday in my faith. It’s the day the veil is at its thinnest. We communicate with and honor our deceased ancestors. Costumes were meant to help the living blend in with the dead. We carve Jack-o-lanterns to scare away any unwanted guests. It is our most important festival. I love that we celebrate Halloween in the US. But I hate how evangelical Christians pretend it isn’t a pagan/Wiccan holiday. Same with Yule (Christmas). Same with Ostara (Easter). All the so-called “Christian” holidays were appropriated.

If you attend a church that celebrates Samhain (Halloween), your church is 10O% hypocritical. It is a pagan holiday.

Do you think only evangelical Christians “pretend” Halloween isn’t your sacred holiday? All other religions, the non-religious, and everyone in between vocally acknowledge your sacred holiday?

This forum is a joke…now evangelicals aren’t acknowledging Samhain!

What I hate is the hypocrisy. It is a pagan holiday. Pretending it isn’t is ridiculous. I actually respect the churches that don’t celebrate it at all. At least they acknowledge that the holiday is not one evangelicals should participate in.

Trick or treating, pumpkins and the like are actually secular holidays and have nothing to do with scripture or liturgy.

Incorrect. Every tradition you listed is pagan in origin. Costumes were used to blend in with the deceased. Treats or tricks were a big part of the festival. Pumpkins were carved to scare evil spirits.

Seriously, it’s true that pumpkins and costumes have nothing to do with Christian scriptures or liturgy.

Halloween is a secular holiday today just like Christmas is secular for some people. Most Christians don’t care. Your victimhood on this is silly.

It’s not about being a victim. It’s about preserving tradition. It’s important to those of us who follow the path. I’m thrilled that others celebrate! I just wish they understood the why. These are sacred feasts and festivals. It would be like me celebrating Diwali without acknowledging anything other than the pretty lights and the food. We will attend a Diwali festival. We respect and understand the festival because it’s important.

How do little kids dressing up in costumes detract from you preserving your tradition? Do you think this should be an opportunity for proselytizing? Most Christians ignore the secular Christmas celebrators, why can’t you?

Most ADULTS have no idea what they are celebrating. And having “fall festivals” at evangelical churches is kinda offensive. Evangelicals despise my faith. Many would still happily burn me at the stake. They believe I am going to hell, ffs. Yet, they celebrate a holiday that is one of the most sacred festivals in my faith.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another appropriated holiday. Samhain is a very sacred holiday in my faith. It’s the day the veil is at its thinnest. We communicate with and honor our deceased ancestors. Costumes were meant to help the living blend in with the dead. We carve Jack-o-lanterns to scare away any unwanted guests. It is our most important festival. I love that we celebrate Halloween in the US. But I hate how evangelical Christians pretend it isn’t a pagan/Wiccan holiday. Same with Yule (Christmas). Same with Ostara (Easter). All the so-called “Christian” holidays were appropriated.

If you attend a church that celebrates Samhain (Halloween), your church is 10O% hypocritical. It is a pagan holiday.

Do you think only evangelical Christians “pretend” Halloween isn’t your sacred holiday? All other religions, the non-religious, and everyone in between vocally acknowledge your sacred holiday?

This forum is a joke…now evangelicals aren’t acknowledging Samhain!

What I hate is the hypocrisy. It is a pagan holiday. Pretending it isn’t is ridiculous. I actually respect the churches that don’t celebrate it at all. At least they acknowledge that the holiday is not one evangelicals should participate in.

Trick or treating, pumpkins and the like are actually secular holidays and have nothing to do with scripture or liturgy.

Incorrect. Every tradition you listed is pagan in origin. Costumes were used to blend in with the deceased. Treats or tricks were a big part of the festival. Pumpkins were carved to scare evil spirits.

Seriously, it’s true that pumpkins and costumes have nothing to do with Christian scriptures or liturgy.

Halloween is a secular holiday today just like Christmas is secular for some people. Most Christians don’t care. Your victimhood on this is silly.

It’s not about being a victim. It’s about preserving tradition. It’s important to those of us who follow the path. I’m thrilled that others celebrate! I just wish they understood the why. These are sacred feasts and festivals. It would be like me celebrating Diwali without acknowledging anything other than the pretty lights and the food. We will attend a Diwali festival. We respect and understand the festival because it’s important.

How do little kids dressing up in costumes detract from you preserving your tradition? Do you think this should be an opportunity for proselytizing? Most Christians ignore the secular Christmas celebrators, why can’t you?

Most ADULTS have no idea what they are celebrating. And having “fall festivals” at evangelical churches is kinda offensive. Evangelicals despise my faith. Many would still happily burn me at the stake. They believe I am going to hell, ffs. Yet, they celebrate a holiday that is one of the most sacred festivals in my faith.

Adults know exactly what they’re celebrating: fun, sexy nurse costumes, and candy. But if you want them to know about the cute origins of things like costumes and pumpkins, you’re also going to have to cop to the children-sacrificing, chicken-killing stuff.

I doubt many would burn you at the stake, but they’d be plenty hostile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a Christian, but I'm not concerned about this as a Christian. I have no problem with "baptizing" useful pagan customs. I have a problem with these stories, because they fail as history. There simply isn't evidence for them, and people believe them because they show up on the History Channel between showings of Ancient Aliens.

Translation: I refuse to believe the scholars, including contemporaneous writings by Bede, because it disagrees with my presuppositions, and I will say they fail as history but provide no evidence of that claim, and hope no one calls me on my bullshit.

I waited a bit to respond to this, because I needed to get to where I could lay my hands on my copy of Winters in the World Eleanor Parker's excellent recent book on the Anglo Saxon year. Parker is a specialist on medieval English and Scandinavian literature at Oxford and a scholar by anyone's definition. Here's what she says about the connection between Eostre and Easter celebration:

t's important to recognize that even if Easter does take its name from a goddess, that only tells us about the origins of the [i]name- not the origins of the festival. The Christian festival of Easter long pre-dated the Anglo-Saxon conversion, and its essential features, including the principal behind its dating, had been established for centuries. What's more, we have no evidence of any symbols, customs, or rituals that may have been associated with Eostre in Anglo-Saxon England or anything to suggest how her festival might have been celebrated. Bede mentions "feasts," in the vaguest terms, but he probably has no idea what those might have involved. Today it's popular myth that symbols linked in modern Britain with Easter, especially eggs, hares or rabbits derive from worship of Eostre, but there's no Anglo-Saxon evidence to support that. None of these symbols were linked to Easter in the Anglo-Saxon period; eggs weren't associated with Easter in Britain until the later Middles ages, hares and rabbits not until much later still. There's nothing to suggest any continuity between the pre-conversion festival and the Anglo-Saxon Christian Easter, and the modern observance of Easter owes nothing to Anglo-Saxon paganism, with the sole exception of its English name.

(Page 126)

She also relevant to your odd description of Bede as "contemporary":

Most likely Bede wasn't relying on personal knowledge but was using a written source for month-names and adding his own speculation about the meaning- and in some cases he may have just been guessing.

(Page 15)

She also notes with regard to the name that:

Some have gone so far as to suggest that Bede invented Esotre as a scholarly hypothesis to explain a name he didn't understand

(Page 125) (There's a citation here to "Anglo-Saxon Paganism: The Evidence of Bede" by an R.I. Page a Cambridge scholar who was an expert on Anglo-Saxon runes)

So basically, what I'm saying is that I'm satisfied that my opinions are based on scholarship, including giving Bede his proper due.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a Christian, but I'm not concerned about this as a Christian. I have no problem with "baptizing" useful pagan customs. I have a problem with these stories, because they fail as history. There simply isn't evidence for them, and people believe them because they show up on the History Channel between showings of Ancient Aliens.

Translation: I refuse to believe the scholars, including contemporaneous writings by Bede, because it disagrees with my presuppositions, and I will say they fail as history but provide no evidence of that claim, and hope no one calls me on my bullshit.

I waited a bit to respond to this, because I needed to get to where I could lay my hands on my copy of Winters in the World Eleanor Parker's excellent recent book on the Anglo Saxon year. Parker is a specialist on medieval English and Scandinavian literature at Oxford and a scholar by anyone's definition. Here's what she says about the connection between Eostre and Easter celebration:

t's important to recognize that even if Easter does take its name from a goddess, that only tells us about the origins of the [i]name- not the origins of the festival. The Christian festival of Easter long pre-dated the Anglo-Saxon conversion, and its essential features, including the principal behind its dating, had been established for centuries. What's more, we have no evidence of any symbols, customs, or rituals that may have been associated with Eostre in Anglo-Saxon England or anything to suggest how her festival might have been celebrated. Bede mentions "feasts," in the vaguest terms, but he probably has no idea what those might have involved. Today it's popular myth that symbols linked in modern Britain with Easter, especially eggs, hares or rabbits derive from worship of Eostre, but there's no Anglo-Saxon evidence to support that. None of these symbols were linked to Easter in the Anglo-Saxon period; eggs weren't associated with Easter in Britain until the later Middles ages, hares and rabbits not until much later still. There's nothing to suggest any continuity between the pre-conversion festival and the Anglo-Saxon Christian Easter, and the modern observance of Easter owes nothing to Anglo-Saxon paganism, with the sole exception of its English name.

(Page 126)

She also relevant to your odd description of Bede as "contemporary":

Most likely Bede wasn't relying on personal knowledge but was using a written source for month-names and adding his own speculation about the meaning- and in some cases he may have just been guessing.

(Page 15)

She also notes with regard to the name that:

Some have gone so far as to suggest that Bede invented Esotre as a scholarly hypothesis to explain a name he didn't understand

(Page 125) (There's a citation here to "Anglo-Saxon Paganism: The Evidence of Bede" by an R.I. Page a Cambridge scholar who was an expert on Anglo-Saxon runes)

So basically, what I'm saying is that I'm satisfied that my opinions are based on scholarship, including giving Bede his proper due.

Thanks, pp, for digging this out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No. They have a big Trunk or Treat thing. They also recognize All Souls Day followed by All Saints Day.

All Souls Day is Nov 2. Saints is Nov 1.

https://www.history.com/topics/halloween/history-of-halloween#all-saints-day

Pretty interesting history.

[Anonymous]

We are members of two churches- one Catholic and one protestant non-denominational church. The Catholic church ignores it and the protestant church plans a Halloween event. The idea is that members invite their friends to the event and then the invitee joins the church.