There are so many poorly trained dogs!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious - of all of you complaining about "poorly trained" dogs, do any of you have rescues, or do you all have bred dogs?

I have a breeder Mastiff. I’m not sure why you ask, but rescues should not be held to a lesser standard of behavior. They’re just as dangerous when reactive.

[OP]

So what are you suggesting here? Shelters should be euthanizing dogs instead of adopting them out? Shelter stays and transportation journeys are hugely stressful, traumatic events for dogs. And that’s before adding in any abuse or neglect they may have suffered previous to the shelter. They pick up a lot of bad behaviors that they need to unlearn with patient, loving adopters.

But you’d, what, have them all killed [b]instead?[/b]

Instead of...what? Instead of allowing an untrainable, threatening dog to become a nuisance to people and other animals?

That is one option. I'm sure there are others.

But, that's just my .02 with respect untrainable dogs, which many posters have said is the case with some rescues.

If owners train away threatening behavior, that's great.


[OP]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious - of all of you complaining about "poorly trained" dogs, do any of you have rescues, or do you all have bred dogs?

Yes, I rescued a 1 year old German Shepherd/Husky mix, and he was hard as hell to train. I spent thousands and used three trainers, but now I don't have to worry about him being troublesome with humans or other dogs. It was worth it.

Some people don’t have those resources, especially to spend on a problem like barking at other dogs. I know your response is that “you shouldn’t have the dog then,” but really, that’s not how life works in practice. You like the dog, the kids like the dog, and he’s otherwise not dangerous and well behaved.

Fine, don't train the dog, but then please drag it away when it starts barking like crazy at other dogs. No one, dog or human, wants to listen to that. And if your dog sits in the window and barks at passing dogs, don't let it sit in that window--move it to the back of the house. Finally, I'll just say that a barking dog is not a happy dog. S/he might need anxiety meds.

I have never seen someone with a barking dog that just stands there and lets it go crazy on the sidewalk. Also, a dog that barks at dogs or people approaching the home is pretty much… just being a dog??? And you want to medicate it??!?

Barking chronically is not just "being a dog." Most dogs don't bark at people approaching the home. It's extremely off-putting, and yes, barking is a sign of stress. The dog sees the person/animal as a threat. Why would you put your dog in a place where s/he feels threatened most of the day? That's why I suggested putting the dog in a room that overlooks the backyard. They can still see out, but aren't constantly on alert. If all you've had is a dog that barks, I can see why you'd think it's normal, but it's really not.

That's literally exactly what dogs do.
"Recent research shows that the domesticating of dogs began between 20,000-40,000 years ago. In that period of time, dogs have learned how to understand large vocabularies, compound sentences, and upwards of 1,000 words if trained properly.

Like us, dogs use verbal and nonverbal cues to communicate. For dogs, barking is a completely normal behavior—it’s one of the most effective ways dogs know how to communicate with their owners.

They use barking to communicate a variety of feelings, so in order to fully understand what a dog is communicating, pet parents need to contextualize a dog’s verbal cues within their nonverbal cues (dog body language).

.....
Fear, Anxiety, or Territorial Barking
Defensive barking is often heard when there is a clear stimulus—such as a strange person approaching the home, another dog being nearby, or being trapped in a position with no clear escape route.

These barks will usually be deeper and may have a growl associated with them. They will also be fairly continuous and incessant. This is your dog’s way of saying, “hey, what’s this? We need to be at the ready for a problem.”

For anxious/fearful dogs, their body language will usually include a tail between the legs, hackles raised, and low head posture.

If it’s just territorial barking, then the body posture may include having the ears and head at attention and the tail straight. This is the dog’s way of indicating that they are larger and may bite.

In both scenarios, the dog’s body will be tense.

https://www.petmd.com/dog/behavior/why-do-dogs-bark

This- my dog is not even particularly sensitive or inclined to stand at the window, but sometimes he barks at passersby. And he is big, so his bark is “scary.” He is a dog, for crying out loud!

You don't have to live with that--it can be trained out. And a large, loud dog is not pleasant to be around.

+1 I don’t think owners of big dogs have any idea what it’s like for passersby to have big dogs barking at you. It’s annoying for one and for another, I have no idea if your dog is friendly, liable to get out, etc. And if you’re my neighbor and I do know your dog is friendly-ish and unlikely to get out, listening to your dog bark endlessly (I find that dog owners aren’t really honest with themselves how much their dogs actually bark) is disruptive.

We do. Most folks just ignore it, some laugh and wave at the dog, others shout hello and a tiny, tiny minority of people totally freak out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious - of all of you complaining about "poorly trained" dogs, do any of you have rescues, or do you all have bred dogs?

I have a breeder Mastiff. I’m not sure why you ask, but rescues should not be held to a lesser standard of behavior. They’re just as dangerous when reactive.

[OP]

So what are you suggesting here? Shelters should be euthanizing dogs instead of adopting them out? Shelter stays and transportation journeys are hugely stressful, traumatic events for dogs. And that’s before adding in any abuse or neglect they may have suffered previous to the shelter. They pick up a lot of bad behaviors that they need to unlearn with patient, loving adopters.

But you’d, what, have them all killed instead?

Yes, some dogs should be put down instead of being adopted out. When did this become controversial? No kill shelters were a lovely, simplistic idea back we all thought that it was an elderly but mild dog or someone’s lost golden retriever were getting put down. But now shelters are keeping problematic dogs for months and months, even ones that have gotten adopted and have been returned for aggression or biting. Why do we need to pretend that all dogs are able to be rehabbed? Why do shelters continue to put families at risk by lying? Why do some people make so many excuses?

Especially since it seems like a lot of “rescues” are ReScUeS. Some people like to imagine they know everything about dogs and that dogs are people. (Not OP, lest she get blamed for my comments).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious - of all of you complaining about "poorly trained" dogs, do any of you have rescues, or do you all have bred dogs?

I have a breeder Mastiff. I’m not sure why you ask, but rescues should not be held to a lesser standard of behavior. They’re just as dangerous when reactive.

[OP]

So what are you suggesting here? Shelters should be euthanizing dogs instead of adopting them out? Shelter stays and transportation journeys are hugely stressful, traumatic events for dogs. And that’s before adding in any abuse or neglect they may have suffered previous to the shelter. They pick up a lot of bad behaviors that they need to unlearn with patient, loving adopters.

But you’d, what, have them all killed instead?

Yes, some dogs should be put down instead of being adopted out. When did this become controversial? No kill shelters were a lovely, simplistic idea back we all thought that it was an elderly but mild dog or someone’s lost golden retriever were getting put down. But now shelters are keeping problematic dogs for months and months, even ones that have gotten adopted and have been returned for aggression or biting. Why do we need to pretend that all dogs are able to be rehabbed? Why do shelters continue to put families at risk by lying? Why do some people make so many excuses?

Especially since it seems like a lot of “rescues” are ReScUeS. Some people like to imagine they know everything about dogs and that dogs are people. (Not OP, lest she get blamed for my comments).

^^THIS. You nailed it.

This thread has been enlightening about how and why people excuse bad behavior from rescues. Also, I am truly baffled by the mentality that euthanasia is a bad thing for problematic dogs. Frankly, it needs to happen more.


[OP]

[Anonymous]

People let their dogs and kids run wild for two years. We’ll deal with the consequences for another 5 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious - of all of you complaining about "poorly trained" dogs, do any of you have rescues, or do you all have bred dogs?

I have a breeder Mastiff. I’m not sure why you ask, but rescues should not be held to a lesser standard of behavior. They’re just as dangerous when reactive.

[OP]

So what are you suggesting here? Shelters should be euthanizing dogs instead of adopting them out? Shelter stays and transportation journeys are hugely stressful, traumatic events for dogs. And that’s before adding in any abuse or neglect they may have suffered previous to the shelter. They pick up a lot of bad behaviors that they need to unlearn with patient, loving adopters.

But you’d, what, have them all killed instead?

Yes, some dogs should be put down instead of being adopted out. When did this become controversial? No kill shelters were a lovely, simplistic idea back we all thought that it was an elderly but mild dog or someone’s lost golden retriever were getting put down. But now shelters are keeping problematic dogs for months and months, even ones that have gotten adopted and have been returned for aggression or biting. Why do we need to pretend that all dogs are able to be rehabbed? Why do shelters continue to put families at risk by lying? Why do some people make so many excuses?

Especially since it seems like a lot of “rescues” are ReScUeS. Some people like to imagine they know everything about dogs and that dogs are people. (Not OP, lest she get blamed for my comments).

^^THIS. You nailed it.

This thread has been enlightening about how and why people excuse bad behavior from rescues. Also, I am truly baffled by the mentality that euthanasia is a bad thing for problematic dogs. Frankly, it needs to happen more.


[OP]

NP. I agree. I've had it with the shelters and the no-kill movement. Months and months? Some of these shelters are keeping dogs there for YEARS after they've been adopted out and returned multiple times. That needs to end. I don't even think it's fair to the dog to spend its life in a shelter. The number of dogs that are only fit for highly experienced single women who live on acres of land surrounded by an 8 foot+ fence and who never have contact with any men or children is just too high.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious - of all of you complaining about "poorly trained" dogs, do any of you have rescues, or do you all have bred dogs?

I have a breeder Mastiff. I’m not sure why you ask, but rescues should not be held to a lesser standard of behavior. They’re just as dangerous when reactive.

[OP]

So what are you suggesting here? Shelters should be euthanizing dogs instead of adopting them out? Shelter stays and transportation journeys are hugely stressful, traumatic events for dogs. And that’s before adding in any abuse or neglect they may have suffered previous to the shelter. They pick up a lot of bad behaviors that they need to unlearn with patient, loving adopters.

But you’d, what, have them all killed instead?

Yes, some dogs should be put down instead of being adopted out. When did this become controversial? No kill shelters were a lovely, simplistic idea back we all thought that it was an elderly but mild dog or someone’s lost golden retriever were getting put down. But now shelters are keeping problematic dogs for months and months, even ones that have gotten adopted and have been returned for aggression or biting. Why do we need to pretend that all dogs are able to be rehabbed? Why do shelters continue to put families at risk by lying? Why do some people make so many excuses?

Especially since it seems like a lot of “rescues” are ReScUeS. Some people like to imagine they know everything about dogs and that dogs are people. (Not OP, lest she get blamed for my comments).

^^THIS. You nailed it.

This thread has been enlightening about how and why people excuse bad behavior from rescues. Also, I am truly baffled by the mentality that euthanasia is a bad thing for problematic dogs. Frankly, it needs to happen more.


[OP]

NP. I agree. I've had it with the shelters and the no-kill movement. Months and months? Some of these shelters are keeping dogs there for YEARS after they've been adopted out and returned multiple times. That needs to end. I don't even think it's fair to the dog to spend its life in a shelter. The number of dogs that are only fit for highly experienced single women who live on acres of land surrounded by an 8 foot+ fence and who never have contact with any men or children is just too high.

Yep.

These are the dogs that are barking and lunging around your neighborhood with owners excusing it because, "He's a rescue."

[Anonymous]

I think in OP's case, the fact that she has a massive dog has a lot to do with it. My dog is very friendly with all people and dogs - except for the 3 dogs that she just doesn't like for whatever reason. I don't know if it's something in their body language or a past disagreement, but I know which ones she doesn't like so we just keep our distance and move on.

[Anonymous]

Ok I have a rescue. He’s not perfect but he doesn’t react unless barked at first. Then he will get his hackles up, lunge, bark, etc.

I think it is unrealistic not to expect dogs to react to other dogs that are threatening them.

What would you have me do? 9/10 he is perfectly fine and quiet on his walks. He doesn’t even bark at dogs passing by our house. It’s only dogs who bark at him first.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think in OP's case, the fact that she has a massive dog has a lot to do with it. My dog is very friendly with all people and dogs - except for the 3 dogs that she just doesn't like for whatever reason. I don't know if it's something in their body language or a past disagreement, but I know which ones she doesn't like so we just keep our distance and move on.

That's definitely it. That's the entire reason.

She's never had a conflict, and she's very submissive.

Dogs of all sizes have acted aggressively toward us.....from various distances. This is with us just walking along.

[OP]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have seen large reactive dogs on walks in my neighborhood and the owner is doing absolutely nothing to stop the behavior.

All they need to do is get the dog to sit, distract them / block their view of the passer by who they're barking at and reward them for sitting still.

We did this with our dog and it worked. And he was huge and strong. It's like these owners don't even know the word "no" and aren't willing to try it.

Way to generalize! Not all dogs care about food rewards or can be distracted. Just like kids, some dogs have challenging personalities. Also note this doesn’t work when two dogs passing have the same issue. So many times in our neighborhood the owner chooses this method and forces the other dog to walk by.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, the dogs likely wanted to play. We have a small dog. He's always on a leash. He isn't going to hurt anyone. I'm not going to be "training" him to act differently. He's got some attitude, some personality, which I view as a plus.

Yes, ours goes crazy to play NOT because he wants to attack. He is just so obsessed with other dogs that he wants to say hi.

[Anonymous]

I’ve never seen a dog bark and growl when they want to play.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People let their dogs and kids run wild for two years. We’ll deal with the consequences for another 5 years.

This. Anyone who works in a school can tell you this and so many parents are clueless. Your children are feral.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve never seen a dog bark and growl when they want to play.

No growling, but mine barks like crazy if he sees a dog on leash to play. If I ask if he wants to say hi, he stops.