There are so many poorly trained dogs!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious - of all of you complaining about "poorly trained" dogs, do any of you have rescues, or do you all have bred dogs?

Yes, I rescued a 1 year old German Shepherd/Husky mix, and he was hard as hell to train. I spent thousands and used three trainers, but now I don't have to worry about him being troublesome with humans or other dogs. It was worth it.

Some people don’t have those resources, especially to spend on a problem like barking at other dogs. I know your response is that “you shouldn’t have the dog then,” but really, that’s not how life works in practice. You like the dog, the kids like the dog, and he’s otherwise not dangerous and well behaved.

Fine, don't train the dog, but then please drag it away when it starts barking like crazy at other dogs. No one, dog or human, wants to listen to that. And if your dog sits in the window and barks at passing dogs, don't let it sit in that window--move it to the back of the house. Finally, I'll just say that a barking dog is not a happy dog. S/he might need anxiety meds.

I have never seen someone with a barking dog that just stands there and lets it go crazy on the sidewalk. Also, a dog that barks at dogs or people approaching the home is pretty much… just being a dog??? And you want to medicate it??!?

Barking chronically is not just "being a dog." Most dogs don't bark at people approaching the home. It's extremely off-putting, and yes, barking is a sign of stress. The dog sees the person/animal as a threat. Why would you put your dog in a place where s/he feels threatened most of the day? That's why I suggested putting the dog in a room that overlooks the backyard. They can still see out, but aren't constantly on alert. If all you've had is a dog that barks, I can see why you'd think it's normal, but it's really not.

That's literally exactly what dogs do.
"Recent research shows that the domesticating of dogs began between 20,000-40,000 years ago. In that period of time, dogs have learned how to understand large vocabularies, compound sentences, and upwards of 1,000 words if trained properly.

Like us, dogs use verbal and nonverbal cues to communicate. For dogs, barking is a completely normal behavior—it’s one of the most effective ways dogs know how to communicate with their owners.

They use barking to communicate a variety of feelings, so in order to fully understand what a dog is communicating, pet parents need to contextualize a dog’s verbal cues within their nonverbal cues (dog body language).

.....
Fear, Anxiety, or Territorial Barking
Defensive barking is often heard when there is a clear stimulus—such as a strange person approaching the home, another dog being nearby, or being trapped in a position with no clear escape route.

These barks will usually be deeper and may have a growl associated with them. They will also be fairly continuous and incessant. This is your dog’s way of saying, “hey, what’s this? We need to be at the ready for a problem.”

For anxious/fearful dogs, their body language will usually include a tail between the legs, hackles raised, and low head posture.

If it’s just territorial barking, then the body posture may include having the ears and head at attention and the tail straight. This is the dog’s way of indicating that they are larger and may bite.

In both scenarios, the dog’s body will be tense.

https://www.petmd.com/dog/behavior/why-do-dogs-bark

This- my dog is not even particularly sensitive or inclined to stand at the window, but sometimes he barks at passersby. And he is big, so his bark is “scary.” He is a dog, for crying out loud!

You don't have to live with that--it can be trained out. And a large, loud dog is not pleasant to be around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious - of all of you complaining about "poorly trained" dogs, do any of you have rescues, or do you all have bred dogs?

Yes, I rescued a 1 year old German Shepherd/Husky mix, and he was hard as hell to train. I spent thousands and used three trainers, but now I don't have to worry about him being troublesome with humans or other dogs. It was worth it.

Some people don’t have those resources, especially to spend on a problem like barking at other dogs. I know your response is that “you shouldn’t have the dog then,” but really, that’s not how life works in practice. You like the dog, the kids like the dog, and he’s otherwise not dangerous and well behaved.

Fine, don't train the dog, but then please drag it away when it starts barking like crazy at other dogs. No one, dog or human, wants to listen to that. And if your dog sits in the window and barks at passing dogs, don't let it sit in that window--move it to the back of the house. Finally, I'll just say that a barking dog is not a happy dog. S/he might need anxiety meds.

I have never seen someone with a barking dog that just stands there and lets it go crazy on the sidewalk. Also, a dog that barks at dogs or people approaching the home is pretty much… just being a dog??? And you want to medicate it??!?

Barking chronically is not just "being a dog." Most dogs don't bark at people approaching the home. It's extremely off-putting, and yes, barking is a sign of stress. The dog sees the person/animal as a threat. Why would you put your dog in a place where s/he feels threatened most of the day? That's why I suggested putting the dog in a room that overlooks the backyard. They can still see out, but aren't constantly on alert. If all you've had is a dog that barks, I can see why you'd think it's normal, but it's really not.

That's literally exactly what dogs do.
"Recent research shows that the domesticating of dogs began between 20,000-40,000 years ago. In that period of time, dogs have learned how to understand large vocabularies, compound sentences, and upwards of 1,000 words if trained properly.

Like us, dogs use verbal and nonverbal cues to communicate. For dogs, barking is a completely normal behavior—it’s one of the most effective ways dogs know how to communicate with their owners.

They use barking to communicate a variety of feelings, so in order to fully understand what a dog is communicating, pet parents need to contextualize a dog’s verbal cues within their nonverbal cues (dog body language).

.....
Fear, Anxiety, or Territorial Barking
Defensive barking is often heard when there is a clear stimulus—such as a strange person approaching the home, another dog being nearby, or being trapped in a position with no clear escape route.

These barks will usually be deeper and may have a growl associated with them. They will also be fairly continuous and incessant. This is your dog’s way of saying, “hey, what’s this? We need to be at the ready for a problem.”

For anxious/fearful dogs, their body language will usually include a tail between the legs, hackles raised, and low head posture.

If it’s just territorial barking, then the body posture may include having the ears and head at attention and the tail straight. This is the dog’s way of indicating that they are larger and may bite.

In both scenarios, the dog’s body will be tense.

https://www.petmd.com/dog/behavior/why-do-dogs-bark

This- my dog is not even particularly sensitive or inclined to stand at the window, but sometimes he barks at passersby. And he is big, so his bark is “scary.” He is a dog, for crying out loud!

You don't have to live with that--it can be trained out. And a large, loud dog is not pleasant to be around.

+1 I don’t think owners of big dogs have any idea what it’s like for passersby to have big dogs barking at you. It’s annoying for one and for another, I have no idea if your dog is friendly, liable to get out, etc. And if you’re my neighbor and I do know your dog is friendly-ish and unlikely to get out, listening to your dog bark endlessly (I find that dog owners aren’t really honest with themselves how much their dogs actually bark) is disruptive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious - of all of you complaining about "poorly trained" dogs, do any of you have rescues, or do you all have bred dogs?

I have a breeder Mastiff. I’m not sure why you ask, but rescues should not be held to a lesser standard of behavior. They’re just as dangerous when reactive.

[OP]

I think you know why I ask. There are people who rescue dogs, and there are people who buy dogs. People who buy dogs want a warm-blooded stuffed animal and think that "all dogs" should be similarly docile. That's just not reality.

What in the world is with this belief that rescue dogs shouldn't be expected to behave??

As I said, my dog is a Mastiff from a breeder. IMO, all dog owners should aim for their dogs being good citizens. I invested so much money and time in getting her to the point where she is very pleasant to be around.

To address a few other things:

Many owners are inactive while allowing their dogs to act aggressive toward other dogs. I see it regularly. Also, most all of the dogs that are barking and lunging at us are across the street or parking lot from my dog and me. It's like, the dog spots us and then goes berserk. (It's actually quite fascinating--even if annoying.) I tend to not even get close to other dogs outside because most are so freaking ill behaved.


[OP]

[Anonymous]

Why must dogs act like dogs? Why can't they act more like people? /s

OP, you started off ok but as your replies continued, you sound like an uptight, pursed-lipped pill. Some dogs bark sometimes. Not all dogs have your breed dog's personality. Get over yourself.

[Anonymous]

"dogs should be good citizens."

lady, these are DOGS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why must dogs act like dogs? Why can't they act more like people? /s

OP, you started off ok but as your replies continued, you sound like an uptight, pursed-lipped pill. Some dogs bark sometimes. Not all dogs have your breed dog's personality. Get over yourself.

You don't like me. I will try my best to go on.

Anyway, I wasn't the only one posting. But, my main issue is with the lunging/aggressive dogs. They're a real menace...and it's not like it's uncommon. I appreciate those who agree with me.

[OP]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious - of all of you complaining about "poorly trained" dogs, do any of you have rescues, or do you all have bred dogs?

Yes, I rescued a 1 year old German Shepherd/Husky mix, and he was hard as hell to train. I spent thousands and used three trainers, but now I don't have to worry about him being troublesome with humans or other dogs. It was worth it.

Some people don’t have those resources, especially to spend on a problem like barking at other dogs. I know your response is that “you shouldn’t have the dog then,” but really, that’s not how life works in practice. You like the dog, the kids like the dog, and he’s otherwise not dangerous and well behaved.

Fine, don't train the dog, but then please drag it away when it starts barking like crazy at other dogs. No one, dog or human, wants to listen to that. And if your dog sits in the window and barks at passing dogs, don't let it sit in that window--move it to the back of the house. Finally, I'll just say that a barking dog is not a happy dog. S/he might need anxiety meds.

I have never seen someone with a barking dog that just stands there and lets it go crazy on the sidewalk. Also, a dog that barks at dogs or people approaching the home is pretty much… just being a dog??? And you want to medicate it??!?

Barking chronically is not just "being a dog." Most dogs don't bark at people approaching the home. It's extremely off-putting, and yes, barking is a sign of stress. The dog sees the person/animal as a threat. Why would you put your dog in a place where s/he feels threatened most of the day? That's why I suggested putting the dog in a room that overlooks the backyard. They can still see out, but aren't constantly on alert. If all you've had is a dog that barks, I can see why you'd think it's normal, but it's really not.

That's literally exactly what dogs do.
"Recent research shows that the domesticating of dogs began between 20,000-40,000 years ago. In that period of time, dogs have learned how to understand large vocabularies, compound sentences, and upwards of 1,000 words if trained properly.

Like us, dogs use verbal and nonverbal cues to communicate. For dogs, barking is a completely normal behavior—it’s one of the most effective ways dogs know how to communicate with their owners.

They use barking to communicate a variety of feelings, so in order to fully understand what a dog is communicating, pet parents need to contextualize a dog’s verbal cues within their nonverbal cues (dog body language).

.....
Fear, Anxiety, or Territorial Barking
Defensive barking is often heard when there is a clear stimulus—such as a strange person approaching the home, another dog being nearby, or being trapped in a position with no clear escape route.

These barks will usually be deeper and may have a growl associated with them. They will also be fairly continuous and incessant. This is your dog’s way of saying, “hey, what’s this? We need to be at the ready for a problem.”

For anxious/fearful dogs, their body language will usually include a tail between the legs, hackles raised, and low head posture.

If it’s just territorial barking, then the body posture may include having the ears and head at attention and the tail straight. This is the dog’s way of indicating that they are larger and may bite.

In both scenarios, the dog’s body will be tense.

https://www.petmd.com/dog/behavior/why-do-dogs-bark

This- my dog is not even particularly sensitive or inclined to stand at the window, but sometimes he barks at passersby. And he is big, so his bark is “scary.” He is a dog, for crying out loud!

Np
Mine has a loud monstrous bark too for any passerby, including me. My own dog barks at me and keeps barking when I walk in for a moment despite being happy as a clam. He is just loud but despite being a "football size mutt" but he gets along with all dogs. Op wanted to brag but just left distasteful comments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious - of all of you complaining about "poorly trained" dogs, do any of you have rescues, or do you all have bred dogs?

Yes, I rescued a 1 year old German Shepherd/Husky mix, and he was hard as hell to train. I spent thousands and used three trainers, but now I don't have to worry about him being troublesome with humans or other dogs. It was worth it.

Some people don’t have those resources, especially to spend on a problem like barking at other dogs. I know your response is that “you shouldn’t have the dog then,” but really, that’s not how life works in practice. You like the dog, the kids like the dog, and he’s otherwise not dangerous and well behaved.

Fine, don't train the dog, but then please drag it away when it starts barking like crazy at other dogs. No one, dog or human, wants to listen to that. And if your dog sits in the window and barks at passing dogs, don't let it sit in that window--move it to the back of the house. Finally, I'll just say that a barking dog is not a happy dog. S/he might need anxiety meds.

I have never seen someone with a barking dog that just stands there and lets it go crazy on the sidewalk. Also, a dog that barks at dogs or people approaching the home is pretty much… just being a dog??? And you want to medicate it??!?

Barking chronically is not just "being a dog." Most dogs don't bark at people approaching the home. It's extremely off-putting, and yes, barking is a sign of stress. The dog sees the person/animal as a threat. Why would you put your dog in a place where s/he feels threatened most of the day? That's why I suggested putting the dog in a room that overlooks the backyard. They can still see out, but aren't constantly on alert. If all you've had is a dog that barks, I can see why you'd think it's normal, but it's really not.

I agree. Constant barking is an expression of stress. It's not good for the dog. The most vocal hound should not be barking all day. I used a bark collar on my teen dog who developed anxiety separation and would start to bark AFTER I left the house, and I tested the shock on myself FIRST, to make sure it wasn't painful. It took a couple of barks, and he got the message, and busied himself with all the toys and treats I left for him. So a combination of stick and carrot - when you can't "positive train" your way out of a deleterious behavior, stick and carrot is the gold standard. He and many others dogs, can't use the toys and treats if they're stuck in bark mode, so the aversive signal distracts them away from barking and towards the positive items at their disposal. My dog still barks when he's excited, but that's a normal, healthy way to express himself, which is totally fine.

Bark collars are inhumane. You can't test it on yourself and then think it isn't so bad because dogs and humans are not the same and do not react the same way. For example, a loud noise is loud to you but can be extremely painful to dogs. We don't know how the dogs feel but it cant be good. How would you to live in a house where you don't speak the language but if you make a mistake they shock you. "Positive training works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"dogs should be good citizens."

lady, these are DOGS.

Dogs can pass the good canine citizen test so they can be good citizens!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious - of all of you complaining about "poorly trained" dogs, do any of you have rescues, or do you all have bred dogs?

I have a breeder Mastiff. I’m not sure why you ask, but rescues should not be held to a lesser standard of behavior. They’re just as dangerous when reactive.

[OP]

I think you know why I ask. There are people who rescue dogs, and there are people who buy dogs. People who buy dogs want a warm-blooded stuffed animal and think that "all dogs" should be similarly docile. That's just not reality.

What in the world is with this belief that rescue dogs shouldn't be expected to behave??

As I said, my dog is a Mastiff from a breeder. IMO, all dog owners should aim for their dogs being good citizens. I invested so much money and time in getting her to the point where she is very pleasant to be around.

To address a few other things:

Many owners are inactive while allowing their dogs to act aggressive toward other dogs. I see it regularly. Also, most all of the dogs that are barking and lunging at us are across the street or parking lot from my dog and me. It's like, the dog spots us and then goes berserk. (It's actually quite fascinating--even if annoying.) I tend to not even get close to other dogs outside because most are so freaking ill behaved.


[OP]

It's not that rescue dogs aren't expected to behave; it's that no one knows their backgrounds and a lot of stuff can't be trained out of them. Good grief, it is 2022; I cannot believe that there are still people out there who think you can "train" every dog without being cruel or abusive. Some, sure, but not all. A professional trainer told us that there was only so much we could do with our rescue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious - of all of you complaining about "poorly trained" dogs, do any of you have rescues, or do you all have bred dogs?

Yes, I rescued a 1 year old German Shepherd/Husky mix, and he was hard as hell to train. I spent thousands and used three trainers, but now I don't have to worry about him being troublesome with humans or other dogs. It was worth it.

Some people don’t have those resources, especially to spend on a problem like barking at other dogs. I know your response is that “you shouldn’t have the dog then,” but really, that’s not how life works in practice. You like the dog, the kids like the dog, and he’s otherwise not dangerous and well behaved.

Fine, don't train the dog, but then please drag it away when it starts barking like crazy at other dogs. No one, dog or human, wants to listen to that. And if your dog sits in the window and barks at passing dogs, don't let it sit in that window--move it to the back of the house. Finally, I'll just say that a barking dog is not a happy dog. S/he might need anxiety meds.

I have never seen someone with a barking dog that just stands there and lets it go crazy on the sidewalk. Also, a dog that barks at dogs or people approaching the home is pretty much… just being a dog??? And you want to medicate it??!?

Barking chronically is not just "being a dog." Most dogs don't bark at people approaching the home. It's extremely off-putting, and yes, barking is a sign of stress. The dog sees the person/animal as a threat. Why would you put your dog in a place where s/he feels threatened most of the day? That's why I suggested putting the dog in a room that overlooks the backyard. They can still see out, but aren't constantly on alert. If all you've had is a dog that barks, I can see why you'd think it's normal, but it's really not.

That's literally exactly what dogs do.
"Recent research shows that the domesticating of dogs began between 20,000-40,000 years ago. In that period of time, dogs have learned how to understand large vocabularies, compound sentences, and upwards of 1,000 words if trained properly.

Like us, dogs use verbal and nonverbal cues to communicate. For dogs, barking is a completely normal behavior—it’s one of the most effective ways dogs know how to communicate with their owners.

They use barking to communicate a variety of feelings, so in order to fully understand what a dog is communicating, pet parents need to contextualize a dog’s verbal cues within their nonverbal cues (dog body language).

.....
Fear, Anxiety, or Territorial Barking
Defensive barking is often heard when there is a clear stimulus—such as a strange person approaching the home, another dog being nearby, or being trapped in a position with no clear escape route.

These barks will usually be deeper and may have a growl associated with them. They will also be fairly continuous and incessant. This is your dog’s way of saying, “hey, what’s this? We need to be at the ready for a problem.”

For anxious/fearful dogs, their body language will usually include a tail between the legs, hackles raised, and low head posture.

If it’s just territorial barking, then the body posture may include having the ears and head at attention and the tail straight. This is the dog’s way of indicating that they are larger and may bite.

In both scenarios, the dog’s body will be tense.

https://www.petmd.com/dog/behavior/why-do-dogs-bark

This- my dog is not even particularly sensitive or inclined to stand at the window, but sometimes he barks at passersby. And he is big, so his bark is “scary.” He is a dog, for crying out loud!

Np
Mine has a loud monstrous bark too for any passerby, including me. My own dog barks at me and keeps barking when I walk in for a moment despite being happy as a clam. He is just loud but despite being a "football size mutt" but he gets along with all dogs. Op wanted to brag but just left distasteful comments.

Which of my comments are distasteful?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen large reactive dogs on walks in my neighborhood and the owner is doing absolutely nothing to stop the behavior.

All they need to do is get the dog to sit, distract them / block their view of the passer by who they're barking at and reward them for sitting still.

We did this with our dog and it worked. And he was huge and strong. It's like these owners don't even know the word "no" and aren't willing to try it.

Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn’t. Dogs are not robots, they aren’t going to be perfect all the time or react the way you want them to all the time.

It's called training. Training never stops, unless the owner is lazy and cannot be bothered to try, and then you have the out of control barking and leaping at people / other dogs crap. If you dismiss this suggestion then you're a major part of the collective problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious - of all of you complaining about "poorly trained" dogs, do any of you have rescues, or do you all have bred dogs?

I have a breeder Mastiff. I’m not sure why you ask, but rescues should not be held to a lesser standard of behavior. They’re just as dangerous when reactive.

[OP]

I think you know why I ask. There are people who rescue dogs, and there are people who buy dogs. People who buy dogs want a warm-blooded stuffed animal and think that "all dogs" should be similarly docile. That's just not reality.

What in the world is with this belief that rescue dogs shouldn't be expected to behave??

As I said, my dog is a Mastiff from a breeder. IMO, all dog owners should aim for their dogs being good citizens. I invested so much money and time in getting her to the point where she is very pleasant to be around.

To address a few other things:

Many owners are inactive while allowing their dogs to act aggressive toward other dogs. I see it regularly. Also, most all of the dogs that are barking and lunging at us are across the street or parking lot from my dog and me. It's like, the dog spots us and then goes berserk. (It's actually quite fascinating--even if annoying.) I tend to not even get close to other dogs outside because most are so freaking ill behaved.


[OP]

It's not that rescue dogs aren't expected to behave; it's that no one knows their backgrounds and a lot of stuff can't be trained out of them. Good grief, it is 2022; I cannot believe that there are still people out there who think you can "train" every dog without being cruel or abusive. Some, sure, but not all. A professional trainer told us that there was only so much we could do with our rescue.

I believe you, but I’ve honestly never heard a reputable trainer say this. It could take longer with more repetition, but all dogs can learn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious - of all of you complaining about "poorly trained" dogs, do any of you have rescues, or do you all have bred dogs?

I have a breeder Mastiff. I’m not sure why you ask, but rescues should not be held to a lesser standard of behavior. They’re just as dangerous when reactive.

[OP]

I think you know why I ask. There are people who rescue dogs, and there are people who buy dogs. People who buy dogs want a warm-blooded stuffed animal and think that "all dogs" should be similarly docile. That's just not reality.

What in the world is with this belief that rescue dogs shouldn't be expected to behave??

As I said, my dog is a Mastiff from a breeder. IMO, all dog owners should aim for their dogs being good citizens. I invested so much money and time in getting her to the point where she is very pleasant to be around.

To address a few other things:

Many owners are inactive while allowing their dogs to act aggressive toward other dogs. I see it regularly. Also, most all of the dogs that are barking and lunging at us are across the street or parking lot from my dog and me. It's like, the dog spots us and then goes berserk. (It's actually quite fascinating--even if annoying.) I tend to not even get close to other dogs outside because most are so freaking ill behaved.


[OP]

It's not that rescue dogs aren't expected to behave; it's that no one knows their backgrounds and a lot of stuff can't be trained out of them. Good grief, it is 2022; I cannot believe that there are still people out there who think you can "train" every dog without being cruel or abusive. Some, sure, but not all. A professional trainer told us that there was only so much we could do with our rescue.

I believe you, but I’ve honestly never heard a reputable trainer say this. It could take longer with more repetition, but all dogs can learn.

Not all trainers are equal, either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious - of all of you complaining about "poorly trained" dogs, do any of you have rescues, or do you all have bred dogs?

I have a breeder Mastiff. I’m not sure why you ask, but rescues should not be held to a lesser standard of behavior. They’re just as dangerous when reactive.

[OP]

So what are you suggesting here? Shelters should be euthanizing dogs instead of adopting them out? Shelter stays and transportation journeys are hugely stressful, traumatic events for dogs. And that’s before adding in any abuse or neglect they may have suffered previous to the shelter. They pick up a lot of bad behaviors that they need to unlearn with patient, loving adopters.

But you’d, what, have them all killed instead?