What the admissions looks like after Supreme Court band affirmative action?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happens on applications? Do they just stop asking race?

It will still be on applications because the federal government requires it under Title VI. This will not change if the Supreme Court overturns affirmative action in college admissions. For example, CA and TX don't consider race in admissions but must collect the information via applications and later during enrollment if accepted.

So race cannot be checked off on the application but talking about race or being discriminated against can still be mentioned in essays and can certainly be considered as a positive in the context of character development - overcoming adversity and confronting a challenge. If the Supreme Court holds that diversity is not a compelling interest in college admissions and that race cannot be a factor, however small, it cannot be considered. If that happens, hopefully colleges and universities will eliminate geographic diversity and eliminate the huge preference provided to athletes, legacies, and children of donors and faculty.

Your logic fails. Many people from many races and walks of life can face adversity and challenges. Race based adversity is only one example of adversity. There are white males who have faced adversity and they can write about the challenges that they faced and how they overcame them. It will then be up to the subjective process of reviewing those application essays for the AO to determine which candidates will help achieve whatever balanced community the institution is looking for. What the ruling states is not that race cannot be included in the application process, but that race cannot be used as a metric for determining the placement of individuals. So, someone who faced adversity and overcame it, even if the adversity was race-based, is being compared to other students who faced other forms of adversity. That's valid as long as they are not solely basing the decision on the individuals race and also not placing a higher priority or emphasis on facing racial adversity over other types of diversity.

No one will ever know if an AO gives more weight to overcoming racial discrimination than other types of adversity, so there will be no way to successfully sue them if they do. We all know the admissions process can be highly subjective.

[Anonymous]

All the white folks benefiting from AA are gonna be shocked when their precious son or daughter can't get into an IVY because Nuptar from India scores higher than them.

Getting rid of AA means these colleges will accept more foreigners and Asians who have higher stats than whites, blacks or Hispanics.

Love it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All the white folks benefiting from AA are gonna be shocked when their precious son or daughter can't get into an IVY because Nuptar from India scores higher than them.

Getting rid of AA means these colleges will accept more foreigners and Asians who have higher stats than whites, blacks or Hispanics.

Love it!

The opposite actually.

Test Optional IS the counter. A brilliant way for colleges to continue to shape their classes without the standardized test scrutiny ( that's all the good testers cry about when it comes to "merit").

Not only will TO maintain diversity, it will allow a pass for colleges to admit the full pay lax bro with solid grades from a prep school but average SAT score ( which won't get submitted).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's very likely SCOTUS will ban affirmative action in late June 2023 decision.

Once that happens -affirmative action will immediately be banned as a factor.

So what happens then for HS classes of 2024 onward? Will private colleges voluntarily ban legacy preference? I have heard a number of Ivies are discussing this to have ready to announce.

Will more public schools offer the Texas model of guaranteed admit for top 10% of each high school in the state?

Would love a sober discussion of this here....

I would not be shocked if there is Massive Resistance similar to Dobbs. Especially with Biden as POTUS, even if the Supreme Court issues an opinion striking it down, it will be years before the dust settles.

Wrong

Affirmative action is no where near as popular as choice

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I work at a R1 public university and good friends with two AOs at an ivy and one T25. The shared outlook for this small sample is a continuation of test optional and increased emphasis on first gen students to meet institutional goals. I don’t think our institutions our outliers.

What about low income?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have spent a lot of time thinking about this. I have really bright students who score very high on standardized tests. They are smart and work very hard. I am sure in the future, they will have high SAT scores. However, I don't know if they will be as high as children from college educated parents due to life factors.

I am ok with admitting some students with slightly lower scores when considering these factors. That would include students of all races. I do not think tests should be eliminated. My experience is that 95% of students score within the range of their abilities.

Abilities is one thing, but these tests measure the willingness to prep as much as they do abilities. Some kids can hack it on their own (yours truly, way back when), but others do get a leg up via paid help. I would love for colleges to start require to disclose any prep, paid and unpaid, received, with severe punishments for not being truthful. And putting a firewall between them and college consultants - no private convos, public information only. But they'll never do that because that's how those underpaid junior admission officers hope to make money in a few years.

I am a low income mom and I think it’s crazy. I am actually willing to prioritize a strategic consult or two and a session or two of paid test prep for my child. I can oversee his overall prep and application strategy. It’s about priorities.
Kids with parents who aren’t as strategic can be part of a plethora of first Gen low income coaching initiatives.
I would actually require this as part of mandatory schooling

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have spent a lot of time thinking about this. I have really bright students who score very high on standardized tests. They are smart and work very hard. I am sure in the future, they will have high SAT scores. However, I don't know if they will be as high as children from college educated parents due to life factors.

I am ok with admitting some students with slightly lower scores when considering these factors. That would include students of all races. I do not think tests should be eliminated. My experience is that 95% of students score within the range of their abilities.

Abilities is one thing, but these tests measure the willingness to prep as much as they do abilities. Some kids can hack it on their own (yours truly, way back when), but others do get a leg up via paid help. I would love for colleges to start require to disclose any prep, paid and unpaid, received, with severe punishments for not being truthful. And putting a firewall between them and college consultants - no private convos, public information only. But they'll never do that because that's how those underpaid junior admission officers hope to make money in a few years.

What about tutoring for regular subjects to boost GPA??

Since tutor's have no way of knowing the exact content/style of a test, this isn't the same as SAT test prep. If a kid gets a tutor for Chemistry or biology, and the kid does well on the tests, it means they actually learned the information, not just the tricks of a specific test type. Which should be the ultimate goal. So AO know that kids from higher income families have more access to testing and those from lower income families/first gen/etc. have less access. But I wouldn't penalize a kid who uses tutoring to actually learn the material---whole point of school is to learn, and if you need a bit more help to do that, so be it. If you get that help and do the hard work, then you get the rewards.

Same as in the real world---If I don't understand an assignment on my job, I seek out help/clarification to ensure I get the job done correctly. I don't get penalized for asking for help if I don't understand everything. However, I will get penalized if I dont' ask and I do the work wrong/dont' complete it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Would it be impermissible discrimination if a university chose to mimic the demographics of the United States in their freshman class?

Anything not based on merit is discrimination. You may argue what is the best measurement for merit and I am sure most would agree that demographics is not one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would it be impermissible discrimination if a university chose to mimic the demographics of the United States in their freshman class?

Anything not based on merit is discrimination. You may argue what is the best measurement for merit and I am sure most would agree that demographics is not one.

Thing is, the colleges will decide how they want to assign merit. They have already ditched standardized tests as that kind of merit just gave them mostly affluent uber test preppers and they don't value an entire class full of those

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's very likely SCOTUS will ban affirmative action in late June 2023 decision.

Once that happens -affirmative action will immediately be banned as a factor.

So what happens then for HS classes of 2024 onward? Will private colleges voluntarily ban legacy preference? I have heard a number of Ivies are discussing this to have ready to announce.

Will more public schools offer the Texas model of guaranteed admit for top 10% of each high school in the state?

Would love a sober discussion of this here....

Not a single thing will change. Colleges have many sly ways to continue with their social engineering goals and compensate even if SCOTUS band AA. One simple way is to do race neutral admissions by giving preference to certain zip codes. Voila, AA through the backdoor

Lots of those ways are not very sly, esp. if you have ever worked in the Title VII/discrimination field. That would just be another law suit waiting to happen and with this SCOTUS, would be bi--slapped again. I don't think that colleges are going to be able to rebound from a negative AA ruling as easily as some of you think. And FWIW, AA was on the chopping block the last few years even with the prior court's composition. Language in prior opinions said that AA should not be able to go on in perpetuity. And while I realize that is a certain form of AA, this SCOTUS is not going to let some more ambiguous factors that do the same thing or have a similar affect undercut their decision, which is a certainty imo. You're a fool if you think that.

[Anonymous]

You all just want to keep black people out of college. God I hate my race...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have spent a lot of time thinking about this. I have really bright students who score very high on standardized tests. They are smart and work very hard. I am sure in the future, they will have high SAT scores. However, I don't know if they will be as high as children from college educated parents due to life factors.

I am ok with admitting some students with slightly lower scores when considering these factors. That would include students of all races. I do not think tests should be eliminated. My experience is that 95% of students score within the range of their abilities.

Abilities is one thing, but these tests measure the willingness to prep as much as they do abilities. Some kids can hack it on their own (yours truly, way back when), but others do get a leg up via paid help. I would love for colleges to start require to disclose any prep, paid and unpaid, received, with severe punishments for not being truthful. And putting a firewall between them and college consultants - no private convos, public information only. But they'll never do that because that's how those underpaid junior admission officers hope to make money in a few years.

I expect they would flat out reject anyone who avers that they did not prepare for a college admissions test. Does not bode well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All the white folks benefiting from AA are gonna be shocked when their precious son or daughter can't get into an IVY because Nuptar from India scores higher than them.

Getting rid of AA means these colleges will accept more foreigners and Asians who have higher stats than whites, blacks or Hispanics.

Love it!

They will simply stop using admissions tests. No law says the have to use it. Maybe they will design their own test and no one will get early access to it. Maybe it will change every year so you never know what subject they will test. You continue to live under the false impression that these test are actually very important in choosing a class of college students. They just aren't. It's a basic bench mark, and once you are over a low bar, it is enough. There will never be a force ranked admission based on one test in this country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would it be impermissible discrimination if a university chose to mimic the demographics of the United States in their freshman class?

Anything not based on merit is discrimination. You may argue what is the best measurement for merit and I am sure most would agree that demographics is not one.

This has never been true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the white folks benefiting from AA are gonna be shocked when their precious son or daughter can't get into an IVY because Nuptar from India scores higher than them.

Getting rid of AA means these colleges will accept more foreigners and Asians who have higher stats than whites, blacks or Hispanics.

Love it!

They will simply stop using admissions tests. No law says the have to use it. Maybe they will design their own test and no one will get early access to it. Maybe it will change every year so you never know what subject they will test. You continue to live under the false impression that these test are actually very important in choosing a class of college students. They just aren't. It's a basic bench mark, and once you are over a low bar, it is enough. There will never be a force ranked admission based on one test in this country.

If course not. College admissions is a subjective exercise. It is valuable to have a diverse class so the colleges will continue to admit them