Lawsuit challenging MCPS magnet admissions dismissed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dismissing the case for insufficient "discriminatory intent" doesn't necessarily mean that discrimination did not occur - it just means the legal threshold wasn't met.

Didn't prove MCPS guilty, but it doesn't mean they didn't do it.

Since the case was dismissed, I'd say they were cleared of any wrongdoing.

+1. Especially in a civil case on a motion to dismiss where inferences are drawn in favor of the plaintiffs, rather than the criminal trial from which PP is importing language of guilt. There just wasn't a plausible case that the protected rights of Asian students were violated here. If anyone here has well articulated reason they think the judge got it wrong, I haven't seen it.

There was that complaint that MCPS was caught grade tampering an asian kid's assignment grades (A's to D's), not grading assignments, not recording graded assignments, etc.. There was a stack of documentation and the P even admitted it happened, but claimed that changing the grades back wouldn't matter. Honestly, I thought she and the one teacher involved should have been removed for that, but apparently someone gave her top-cover?

Documentation please. This.is is far too serious a subject for anonymous anecdotal whispers. Actual Documentation from a court or somewhere that is legally bound to truthful testimony. Please. Documentation.

If it comes out, it won't be by me. Not here to feed you gossip at a child's expense. But these things all did happen, so if you have access to the files you can look it up yourself. That's why I personally don't trust anyone at CO level or higher. In my opinion, they're totally rotten. There are still good P's out there. Good teachers. Good staff. But working under these people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure about the legal merits of this case. But I’m starting to feel like this “equity” business is going to be the school busing of our generation. I’m all in favor of expanding access to gifted programs to underrepresented groups. But doing that through destroying existing programs is just really nihilistic. EXPAND the accelerated options; don’t water them down or exclude qualified students.

Instead of expanding the opportunities to all students, I wonder why they deny opportunities to highly abled to promote some groups. Is this their politics?

They don't. In fact, admissions to these programs are race-blind, and it's why some demographic groups which currently take up over half the seats in these programs while others that are even larger are closer to 5%...

So why are they not providing magnet opportunities for highly abled and only focus on certain groups? Aren't they suppose to provide opportunities for all children?

There are opportunities for all kids. But perhaps not the opportunity you think Larla so obviously deserves.

can you elaborate on what do you mean by that? They are picking and choosing kids for magnet and highly abled students not afforded the opportunities in magnet programs why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dismissing the case for insufficient "discriminatory intent" doesn't necessarily mean that discrimination did not occur - it just means the legal threshold wasn't met.

Didn't prove MCPS guilty, but it doesn't mean they didn't do it.

Since the case was dismissed, I'd say they were cleared of any wrongdoing.

+1. Especially in a civil case on a motion to dismiss where inferences are drawn in favor of the plaintiffs, rather than the criminal trial from which PP is importing language of guilt. There just wasn't a plausible case that the protected rights of Asian students were violated here. If anyone here has well articulated reason they think the judge got it wrong, I haven't seen it.

There was that complaint that MCPS was caught grade tampering an asian kid's assignment grades (A's to D's), not grading assignments, not recording graded assignments, etc.. There was a stack of documentation and the P even admitted it happened, but claimed that changing the grades back wouldn't matter. Honestly, I thought she and the one teacher involved should have been removed for that, but apparently someone gave her top-cover?

Documentation please. This.is is far too serious a subject for anonymous anecdotal whispers. Actual Documentation from a court or somewhere that is legally bound to truthful testimony. Please. Documentation.

If it comes out, it won't be by me. Not here to feed you gossip at a child's expense. But these things all did happen, so if you have access to the files you can look it up yourself. That's why I personally don't trust anyone at CO level or higher. In my opinion, they're totally rotten. There are still good P's out there. Good teachers. Good staff. But working under these people?

In other words, you're full of s$it, spreading lies.

[Anonymous]

It is time I guess to move to a different school district that will provide opportunities for all students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure about the legal merits of this case. But I’m starting to feel like this “equity” business is going to be the school busing of our generation. I’m all in favor of expanding access to gifted programs to underrepresented groups. But doing that through destroying existing programs is just really nihilistic. EXPAND the accelerated options; don’t water them down or exclude qualified students.

Instead of expanding the opportunities to all students, I wonder why they deny opportunities to highly abled to promote some groups. Is this their politics?

They don't. In fact, admissions to these programs are race-blind, and it's why some demographic groups which currently take up over half the seats in these programs while others that are even larger are closer to 5%...

So why are they not providing magnet opportunities for highly abled and only focus on certain groups? Aren't they suppose to provide opportunities for all children?

There are opportunities for all kids. But perhaps not the opportunity you think Larla so obviously deserves.

can you elaborate on what do you mean by that? They are picking and choosing kids for magnet and highly abled students not afforded the opportunities in magnet programs why?

When there’s enough highly able students in a grade level at a specific school, they can be grouped into one (or two classes) and served in their own neighborhood. There are several advantages to this. For example, students are spared a long commute to/from the magnet location. This allows more sleep in the morning and time for more extra curricular in the afternoon. Also, students can more easily maintain relationships with neighborhood peers. This can be especially important for middle schoolers since not all highly gifted students go on to a high school magnet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure about the legal merits of this case. But I’m starting to feel like this “equity” business is going to be the school busing of our generation. I’m all in favor of expanding access to gifted programs to underrepresented groups. But doing that through destroying existing programs is just really nihilistic. EXPAND the accelerated options; don’t water them down or exclude qualified students.

Instead of expanding the opportunities to all students, I wonder why they deny opportunities to highly abled to promote some groups. Is this their politics?

They don't. In fact, admissions to these programs are race-blind, and it's why some demographic groups which currently take up over half the seats in these programs while others that are even larger are closer to 5%...

So why are they not providing magnet opportunities for highly abled and only focus on certain groups? Aren't they suppose to provide opportunities for all children?

There are opportunities for all kids. But perhaps not the opportunity you think Larla so obviously deserves.

can you elaborate on what do you mean by that? They are picking and choosing kids for magnet and highly abled students not afforded the opportunities in magnet programs why?

When there’s enough highly able students in a grade level at a specific school, they can be grouped into one (or two classes) and served in their own neighborhood. There are several advantages to this. For example, students are spared a long commute to/from the magnet location. This allows more sleep in the morning and time for more extra curricular in the afternoon. Also, students can more easily maintain relationships with neighborhood peers. This can be especially important for middle schoolers since not all highly gifted students go on to a high school magnet.

That's true but the best and most able froma any school are those selected for the magnet. It's schools were 12345 kids are prepped to the gills and the lower 20% no longer make the cut.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dismissing the case for insufficient "discriminatory intent" doesn't necessarily mean that discrimination did not occur - it just means the legal threshold wasn't met.

Didn't prove MCPS guilty, but it doesn't mean they didn't do it.

Since the case was dismissed, I'd say they were cleared of any wrongdoing.

+1. Especially in a civil case on a motion to dismiss where inferences are drawn in favor of the plaintiffs, rather than the criminal trial from which PP is importing language of guilt. There just wasn't a plausible case that the protected rights of Asian students were violated here. If anyone here has well articulated reason they think the judge got it wrong, I haven't seen it.

There was that complaint that MCPS was caught grade tampering an asian kid's assignment grades (A's to D's), not grading assignments, not recording graded assignments, etc.. There was a stack of documentation and the P even admitted it happened, but claimed that changing the grades back wouldn't matter. Honestly, I thought she and the one teacher involved should have been removed for that, but apparently someone gave her top-cover?

Documentation please. This.is is far too serious a subject for anonymous anecdotal whispers. Actual Documentation from a court or somewhere that is legally bound to truthful testimony. Please. Documentation.

If it comes out, it won't be by me. Not here to feed you gossip at a child's expense. But these things all did happen, so if you have access to the files you can look it up yourself. That's why I personally don't trust anyone at CO level or higher. In my opinion, they're totally rotten. There are still good P's out there. Good teachers. Good staff. But working under these people?

In other words, you're full of s$it, spreading lies.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure about the legal merits of this case. But I’m starting to feel like this “equity” business is going to be the school busing of our generation. I’m all in favor of expanding access to gifted programs to underrepresented groups. But doing that through destroying existing programs is just really nihilistic. EXPAND the accelerated options; don’t water them down or exclude qualified students.

Instead of expanding the opportunities to all students, I wonder why they deny opportunities to highly abled to promote some groups. Is this their politics?

They don't. In fact, admissions to these programs are race-blind, and it's why some demographic groups which currently take up over half the seats in these programs while others that are even larger are closer to 5%...

So why are they not providing magnet opportunities for highly abled and only focus on certain groups? Aren't they suppose to provide opportunities for all children?

There are opportunities for all kids. But perhaps not the opportunity you think Larla so obviously deserves.

can you elaborate on what do you mean by that? They are picking and choosing kids for magnet and highly abled students not afforded the opportunities in magnet programs why?

Where have you been these past few years? Have you even bothered reading the case? The whole point is that they are NOT picking and choosing anymore. They are throwing the names of all students that could possibly do the work into a lottery hat.

No more "Mary's gold star shines brighter than Mary Anne's gold star"

It is simply "Hey, both of these students are gold stars. We have just one seat Pick one at random and move on. Unless one of them is already at a school with a cohort of other gold stars? In that case, pick the one who is at the worse school since they need better classmates"

[Anonymous]

If you see the Takoma Park MS Magnet program. From the website of https://www.edufair.us/

The main beneficiaries were White students gaining the most number of seats via this lottery system - but no one seems to note that: +8.3%, followed by Black: +5.3%, and then Hispanic +2.7%. With Asian students losing: -14.1%

Was that the outcome MCPS was trying to achieve? I am not aware of the latest data.

Notably - if you want magnet schools and you live in the wrong neighbhorhood - eg, Bethesda, Potomac type locations geographically - good luck getting your kids to the magnet program - they have to spend a tremendous amount of time commuting - because well naturally that's what MCPC thinks is equitable approach for resource distribution.

Naturally - your taxes should be redistributed too- because that's only fair, reasonable and equitable for Asians/immigrants - as you have obviously had an advantaged up-bringing because you were born rich and privileged when you arrived to this country, and exploited people generationally.

Yep..this is the American dream we all signed-up for - to be discriminated against to advantage other 'minority - majorities' - but in the end result of advantaging Whites.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is time I guess to move to a different school district that will provide opportunities for all students.

That’s what we did. Left MCPS after seeing COVID / the grass can be greener. No, I’m not saying where I went. It’s like living in Costa Rica with Nicaragua next door - your problems have already spilled over to other counties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dismissing the case for insufficient "discriminatory intent" doesn't necessarily mean that discrimination did not occur - it just means the legal threshold wasn't met.

Didn't prove MCPS guilty, but it doesn't mean they didn't do it.

Since the case was dismissed, I'd say they were cleared of any wrongdoing.

+1. Especially in a civil case on a motion to dismiss where inferences are drawn in favor of the plaintiffs, rather than the criminal trial from which PP is importing language of guilt. There just wasn't a plausible case that the protected rights of Asian students were violated here. If anyone here has well articulated reason they think the judge got it wrong, I haven't seen it.

There was that complaint that MCPS was caught grade tampering an asian kid's assignment grades (A's to D's), not grading assignments, not recording graded assignments, etc.. There was a stack of documentation and the P even admitted it happened, but claimed that changing the grades back wouldn't matter. Honestly, I thought she and the one teacher involved should have been removed for that, but apparently someone gave her top-cover?

Documentation please. This.is is far too serious a subject for anonymous anecdotal whispers. Actual Documentation from a court or somewhere that is legally bound to truthful testimony. Please. Documentation.

If it comes out, it won't be by me. Not here to feed you gossip at a child's expense. But these things all did happen, so if you have access to the files you can look it up yourself. That's why I personally don't trust anyone at CO level or higher. In my opinion, they're totally rotten. There are still good P's out there. Good teachers. Good staff. But working under these people?

In other words, you're full of s$it, spreading lies.

It's an anonymous board so I'm not offended in any way. You're free to choose what to believe and what not to. But I would caution that if you ever call it a lie in public and someone drops two feet of papers on your desk and invites you to be a defendant, don't be surprised.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you see the Takoma Park MS Magnet program. From the website of https://www.edufair.us/

The main beneficiaries were White students gaining the most number of seats via this lottery system - but no one seems to note that: +8.3%, followed by Black: +5.3%, and then Hispanic +2.7%. With Asian students losing: -14.1%

Was that the outcome MCPS was trying to achieve? I am not aware of the latest data.

Notably - if you want magnet schools and you live in the wrong neighbhorhood - eg, Bethesda, Potomac type locations geographically - good luck getting your kids to the magnet program - they have to spend a tremendous amount of time commuting - because well naturally that's what MCPC thinks is equitable approach for resource distribution.

Naturally - your taxes should be redistributed too- because that's only fair, reasonable and equitable for Asians/immigrants - as you have obviously had an advantaged up-bringing because you were born rich and privileged when you arrived to this country, and exploited people generationally.

Yep..this is the American dream we all signed-up for - to be discriminated against to advantage other 'minority - majorities' - but in the end result of advantaging Whites.

I didn't read all of this but I do wish everyone would stop making this *so* important. I graduated both from TPMS and Blair, a long time back. Now my own two kids are in MCPS, about to be in the "pool".
I honestly don't care if they get selected. Why? Because they will be fine if they don't get in. I would have been fine if I hadn't gotten into either school too. Because the important things that are stressed in so many Asian families were already there (hard work, respect, time management, discipline, sacrifice) and would have still been there had I gone to other schools.

And that's the truth - in my day (late 90s), most of my fellow Asian classmates' parents were docs, engineers, and researchers at NIH - it's SUCH a leg up in life to have educated parents. You cannot tell me the reason why they are all for the most part doing well in life was because of Blair and taking thermodynamics in high school. I imagine, before lottery, it was much the same. Yes, the program and teacher matter, but it most matters to the students who didn't come from homes like mine and who needed the extra encouragement and stimulation. It would be much much better for the school to just take an income based admission process honestly.

Anyway, magnets are not that important. It's the values you create as parents that's important which actually translate to everything that follows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you see the Takoma Park MS Magnet program. From the website of https://www.edufair.us/

The main beneficiaries were White students gaining the most number of seats via this lottery system - but no one seems to note that: +8.3%, followed by Black: +5.3%, and then Hispanic +2.7%. With Asian students losing: -14.1%

Was that the outcome MCPS was trying to achieve? I am not aware of the latest data.

Notably - if you want magnet schools and you live in the wrong neighbhorhood - eg, Bethesda, Potomac type locations geographically - good luck getting your kids to the magnet program - they have to spend a tremendous amount of time commuting - because well naturally that's what MCPC thinks is equitable approach for resource distribution.

Naturally - your taxes should be redistributed too- because that's only fair, reasonable and equitable for Asians/immigrants - as you have obviously had an advantaged up-bringing because you were born rich and privileged when you arrived to this country, and exploited people generationally.

Yep..this is the American dream we all signed-up for - to be discriminated against to advantage other 'minority - majorities' - but in the end result of advantaging Whites.

I didn't read all of this but I do wish everyone would stop making this *so* important. I graduated both from TPMS and Blair, a long time back. Now my own two kids are in MCPS, about to be in the "pool".
I honestly don't care if they get selected. Why? Because they will be fine if they don't get in. I would have been fine if I hadn't gotten into either school too. Because the important things that are stressed in so many Asian families were already there (hard work, respect, time management, discipline, sacrifice) and would have still been there had I gone to other schools.

And that's the truth - in my day (late 90s), most of my fellow Asian classmates' parents were docs, engineers, and researchers at NIH - it's SUCH a leg up in life to have educated parents. You cannot tell me the reason why they are all for the most part doing well in life was because of Blair and taking thermodynamics in high school. I imagine, before lottery, it was much the same. Yes, the program and teacher matter, but it most matters to the students who didn't come from homes like mine and who needed the extra encouragement and stimulation. It would be much much better for the school to just take an income based admission process honestly.

Anyway, magnets are not that important. It's the values you create as parents that's important which actually translate to everything that follows.

That is jut your opinion. With due respect, many disagree with your statement that "magnets are not that important". Can we ask you not to preach your experience and assume that everyone who desire to be in magnet is like you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is time I guess to move to a different school district that will provide opportunities for all students.

That’s what we did. Left MCPS after seeing COVID / the grass can be greener. No, I’m not saying where I went. It’s like living in Costa Rica with Nicaragua next door - your problems have already spilled over to other counties.

Good for you. There are other places where Science and Math are the priority instead of CRT.

[Anonymous]

Best to put equal Magnet school resources in all geographic areas - and allow qualified kids to go. Why is it so hard to achieve this - and deny kids or make them bus all over the place. Don't create this BS of separate but equal programs in individual schools.

I spoke with the CES teacher/program lead - at MCPS and she thought for some reason I was calling because my kid got in thru the lottery - and she was like you must send your kids and how excellent the program is...but then I explained my kid didn't get selected for the lottery - she was like ...yeah...your local school has a different program.

It is separate and totally unequal use of resources.

These Magnet schools are not separate and equal to local elementary/ MS school programs.


Either eliminate them - or provide them for all qualified students.

Stop pitting parents and minorities against each other.