Lawsuit challenging MCPS magnet admissions dismissed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In her memorandum dismissing the lawsuit, Xinis wrote: “… the Court cannot see how the Pandemic Plan visited a disproportionate burden on Asian American students when the percentage of admitted Asian American students so substantially outpaces the percentage representation among all applicants.”

So does this mean MCPS admitted more asians into the program compared to the percentage of asians applied? So it is fair and ok to not admit other equally qualified asian students? May be this is posted out of context?

Doesn't MCPS have a responsibility to meet the academic needs of ALL students?

The judge decided that there is no evidence that the non-COGAT lottery structure, which MCPS now says will be in place for the foreseeable future, has a disparate impact on Asian Americans because Asian American students are still being admitted to middle school magnets at a rate higher than their representation among the population of the County.

So Judge did not decide whether MCPS is providing equal opportunities for all students.
But rather If they provide opportunities 10 students and the ratio meets the population demographic ratio, then that is legally fine? What about all the students who are equally qualified but left out due to lottery system?
Just trying to understand the rationale

Seems reasonable to me.

Are you saying that it is reasonable for MCPS to only pick very few students randomly and provided them the resources and magnet opportunities while not providing the same opportunities to other equally or higher qualified students?

DP. Given the limited number of seats, particularly in middle school, yes. This is not only reasonable, it’s the only possible solution. There are more qualified students than there are seats, so there will always be students receiving services that other equally (and higher) qualified students won’t receive.

The devil is in the details, of course, but it’s disingenuous to argue that there was not randomness in the process before. It’s just not possible to rank students with the level of certainty required to claim that the “most” qualified students are always admitted. Even if that was the goal, and it’s not clear that it ever was, or that it necessarily should be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In her memorandum dismissing the lawsuit, Xinis wrote: “… the Court cannot see how the Pandemic Plan visited a disproportionate burden on Asian American students when the percentage of admitted Asian American students so substantially outpaces the percentage representation among all applicants.”

So does this mean MCPS admitted more asians into the program compared to the percentage of asians applied? So it is fair and ok to not admit other equally qualified asian students? May be this is posted out of context?

Doesn't MCPS have a responsibility to meet the academic needs of ALL students?

The judge decided that there is no evidence that the non-COGAT lottery structure, which MCPS now says will be in place for the foreseeable future, has a disparate impact on Asian Americans because Asian American students are still being admitted to middle school magnets at a rate higher than their representation among the population of the County.

So Judge did not decide whether MCPS is providing equal opportunities for all students.
But rather If they provide opportunities 10 students and the ratio meets the population demographic ratio, then that is legally fine? What about all the students who are equally qualified but left out due to lottery system?
Just trying to understand the rationale

Seems reasonable to me.

Are you saying that it is reasonable for MCPS to only pick very few students randomly and provided them the resources and magnet opportunities while not providing the same opportunities to other equally or higher qualified students?

DP. Given the limited number of seats, particularly in middle school, yes. This is not only reasonable, it’s the only possible solution. There are more qualified students than there are seats, so there will always be students receiving services that other equally (and higher) qualified students won’t receive.

The devil is in the details, of course, but it’s disingenuous to argue that there was not randomness in the process before. It’s just not possible to rank students with the level of certainty required to claim that the “most” qualified students are always admitted. Even if that was the goal, and it’s not clear that it ever was, or that it necessarily should be.

Yes, the metrics by which worthiness was judged were easily gamed even in the old system, but the random lottery seems even worse. I'm not sure what the ideal system looks like. The biggest issue for these programs, as far as I can tell, is they are more qualified kids than there are spots. The best thing they could do is expand them that would also build in local norms since there were more local magnet schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In her memorandum dismissing the lawsuit, Xinis wrote: “… the Court cannot see how the Pandemic Plan visited a disproportionate burden on Asian American students when the percentage of admitted Asian American students so substantially outpaces the percentage representation among all applicants.”

So does this mean MCPS admitted more asians into the program compared to the percentage of asians applied? So it is fair and ok to not admit other equally qualified asian students? May be this is posted out of context?

Doesn't MCPS have a responsibility to meet the academic needs of ALL students?

The judge decided that there is no evidence that the non-COGAT lottery structure, which MCPS now says will be in place for the foreseeable future, has a disparate impact on Asian Americans because Asian American students are still being admitted to middle school magnets at a rate higher than their representation among the population of the County.

So Judge did not decide whether MCPS is providing equal opportunities for all students.
But rather If they provide opportunities 10 students and the ratio meets the population demographic ratio, then that is legally fine? What about all the students who are equally qualified but left out due to lottery system?
Just trying to understand the rationale

Seems reasonable to me.

Are you saying that it is reasonable for MCPS to only pick very few students randomly and provided them the resources and magnet opportunities while not providing the same opportunities to other equally or higher qualified students?

DP. Given the limited number of seats, particularly in middle school, yes. This is not only reasonable, it’s the only possible solution. There are more qualified students than there are seats, so there will always be students receiving services that other equally (and higher) qualified students won’t receive.

The devil is in the details, of course, but it’s disingenuous to argue that there was not randomness in the process before. It’s just not possible to rank students with the level of certainty required to claim that the “most” qualified students are always admitted. Even if that was the goal, and it’s not clear that it ever was, or that it necessarily should be.

Yes, the metrics by which worthiness was judged were easily gamed even in the old system, but the random lottery seems even worse. I'm not sure what the ideal system looks like. The biggest issue for these programs, as far as I can tell, is they are more qualified kids than there are spots. The best thing they could do is expand them that would also build in local norms since there were more local magnet schools.

I'm generally supportive of the changes, and firmly believe that getting rid of teacher recommendations and at-home essays was the correct choice. With that said, a better system would probably be weighted lottery with a higher percentile cut-off. Take the top 5% of each "tier" and put them in a random lottery. Then, and this is critical, build out enrichment at local schools. This means ELA in all elementary schools and cohorted English and HIGH in all middle schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In her memorandum dismissing the lawsuit, Xinis wrote: “… the Court cannot see how the Pandemic Plan visited a disproportionate burden on Asian American students when the percentage of admitted Asian American students so substantially outpaces the percentage representation among all applicants.”

So does this mean MCPS admitted more asians into the program compared to the percentage of asians applied? So it is fair and ok to not admit other equally qualified asian students? May be this is posted out of context?

Doesn't MCPS have a responsibility to meet the academic needs of ALL students?

The judge decided that there is no evidence that the non-COGAT lottery structure, which MCPS now says will be in place for the foreseeable future, has a disparate impact on Asian Americans because Asian American students are still being admitted to middle school magnets at a rate higher than their representation among the population of the County.

So Judge did not decide whether MCPS is providing equal opportunities for all students.
But rather If they provide opportunities 10 students and the ratio meets the population demographic ratio, then that is legally fine? What about all the students who are equally qualified but left out due to lottery system?
Just trying to understand the rationale

Seems reasonable to me.

Are you saying that it is reasonable for MCPS to only pick very few students randomly and provided them the resources and magnet opportunities while not providing the same opportunities to other equally or higher qualified students?

DP. Given the limited number of seats, particularly in middle school, yes. This is not only reasonable, it’s the only possible solution. There are more qualified students than there are seats, so there will always be students receiving services that other equally (and higher) qualified students won’t receive.

The devil is in the details, of course, but it’s disingenuous to argue that there was not randomness in the process before. It’s just not possible to rank students with the level of certainty required to claim that the “most” qualified students are always admitted. Even if that was the goal, and it’s not clear that it ever was, or that it necessarily should be.

Yes, the metrics by which worthiness was judged were easily gamed even in the old system, but the random lottery seems even worse. I'm not sure what the ideal system looks like. The biggest issue for these programs, as far as I can tell, is they are more qualified kids than there are spots. The best thing they could do is expand them that would also build in local norms since there were more local magnet schools.

I'm generally supportive of the changes, and firmly believe that getting rid of teacher recommendations and at-home essays was the correct choice. With that said, a better system would probably be weighted lottery with a higher percentile cut-off. Take the top 5% of each "tier" and put them in a random lottery. Then, and this is critical, build out enrichment at local schools. This means ELA in all elementary schools and cohorted English and HIGH in all middle schools.

If tracking is how they do math, then I just don't see why they don't apply this to more subjects. Let kids learn at the rate that works for them.

[Anonymous]

It's absolutely NO shock that this baseless lawsuit was tossed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is written in this forum does not have to be true. What is presented in a court of law does have to be true.

The courts were presented with that and dismissed the lawsuit.

You can keep fussing here online forever and a day but this argument is moot

Actually, MCPS hires very good lawyers that keeps the details out of the Public's eye.

I don't know why, but the attorney's in this case turned away other parents who had even more substantial evidence, and the Maryland IG was never asked to investigate.

If a Maryland IG went through all of the original evidence, my bet is that jail time would be involved and someone high up didn't want that kind of embarrassment?

Eventually it all comes out though. MCPS is on borrowed time.

Totally reasonable post. Nothing unhinged happening here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's absolutely NO shock that this baseless lawsuit was tossed.

It had 0 merit and was a joke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's absolutely NO shock that this baseless lawsuit was tossed.

It had 0 merit and was a joke.

Hmm. I read the evidence, not in this case, but in another complaint. I don't know how MCPS got away with it, but there are a few things I've learned living in Washington.

There are no secrets, it's just a matter of who knows.

Politicians are fickle and the topcover you have today may be gone tomorrow.

And as any cop knows, just because someone gets away with something this time, eventually someone talks.

[Anonymous]

Yeah agreed. MCPS has good top cover with judges. Would be interesting to see if their kids get preferential treatment with these magnets. I mean the judges are basically pols and run for office. It’s Maryland so likely the case. (Corrupt to the core).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah agreed. MCPS has good top cover with judges. Would be interesting to see if their kids get preferential treatment with these magnets. I mean the judges are basically pols and run for office. It’s Maryland so likely the case. (Corrupt to the core).

No, this was a federal judge in U.S. District Court, appointed by the president and confirmed by the Senate. They don't run for office.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah agreed. MCPS has good top cover with judges. Would be interesting to see if their kids get preferential treatment with these magnets. I mean the judges are basically pols and run for office. It’s Maryland so likely the case. (Corrupt to the core).

No, this was a federal judge in U.S. District Court, appointed by the president and confirmed by the Senate. They don't run for office.

+1

I'm afraid some of the trolls here don't actually understand how our judicial system works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In her memorandum dismissing the lawsuit, Xinis wrote: “… the Court cannot see how the Pandemic Plan visited a disproportionate burden on Asian American students when the percentage of admitted Asian American students so substantially outpaces the percentage representation among all applicants.”

So does this mean MCPS admitted more asians into the program compared to the percentage of asians applied? So it is fair and ok to not admit other equally qualified asian students? May be this is posted out of context?

Doesn't MCPS have a responsibility to meet the academic needs of ALL students?

Yes, I understand that this is what happened pre-2018. Asian parents were focused, applied for their DC and had their DC do test prep. So, they were disproportionately represented. It then evolved to testing everyone at Grade 3 and taking the top whatever percent. This brought in DC whose were bright but whose parents were less focused on the application process. Since there was/is a finite number of seats, the Asian population declined relatively speaking and some people were unhappy that the process became more competitive (hence the lawsuit). I think that it has evolved to more of a lottery since then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In her memorandum dismissing the lawsuit, Xinis wrote: “… the Court cannot see how the Pandemic Plan visited a disproportionate burden on Asian American students when the percentage of admitted Asian American students so substantially outpaces the percentage representation among all applicants.”

So does this mean MCPS admitted more asians into the program compared to the percentage of asians applied? So it is fair and ok to not admit other equally qualified asian students? May be this is posted out of context?

Doesn't MCPS have a responsibility to meet the academic needs of ALL students?

Yes, I understand that this is what happened pre-2018. Asian parents were focused, applied for their DC and had their DC do test prep. So, they were disproportionately represented. It then evolved to testing everyone at Grade 3 and taking the top whatever percent. This brought in DC whose were bright but whose parents were less focused on the application process. Since there was/is a finite number of seats, the Asian population declined relatively speaking and some people were unhappy that the process became more competitive (hence the lawsuit). I think that it has evolved to more of a lottery since then.

So is it a lottery done in transparent manner ? No one knows unfortunately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In her memorandum dismissing the lawsuit, Xinis wrote: “… the Court cannot see how the Pandemic Plan visited a disproportionate burden on Asian American students when the percentage of admitted Asian American students so substantially outpaces the percentage representation among all applicants.”

So does this mean MCPS admitted more asians into the program compared to the percentage of asians applied? So it is fair and ok to not admit other equally qualified asian students? May be this is posted out of context?

Doesn't MCPS have a responsibility to meet the academic needs of ALL students?

Yes, I understand that this is what happened pre-2018. Asian parents were focused, applied for their DC and had their DC do test prep. So, they were disproportionately represented. It then evolved to testing everyone at Grade 3 and taking the top whatever percent. This brought in DC whose were bright but whose parents were less focused on the application process. Since there was/is a finite number of seats, the Asian population declined relatively speaking and some people were unhappy that the process became more competitive (hence the lawsuit). I think that it has evolved to more of a lottery since then.

I call bull on this. Some racist b is spreading lies to falsely libel Asians.

Pre-2018 MCPS tested everyone at Grade 3 thinking they missed qualified kids who could have applied for the magnet program. Did it change anything? Not from what I saw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's absolutely NO shock that this baseless lawsuit was tossed.

It had 0 merit and was a joke.

I think what you read in the final judgement did not include all the evidence. I believe if you had seen all of the evidence, you would agree there was merit behind the lawsuit.