How do we get top students (as defined by high school SAT and GPA) to enter public school teaching?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In my view, “majoring in elementary education” has to become a more valid degree. Now it’s too often a way to skate through college for young women who are there to have a good time. This does not appeal generally to the brightest students.

Besides the pay, the college experience/return on investment has to be so much better than it is.

Let's pretend you are a normal, UMC DC family with a high stat child. If they have their heart set on being an elementary school teacher. Which college would make the most sense to get their degree - Salisbury State or an elite SLAC/Ivy?

Unless your family is super wealthy, it doesn't make sense to pay for an expensive private school for a degree in elementary education so a school like Salisbury it is.

But your child is a high stat child. Do you think Salisbury college will have the same amount of high stats kids? Would your kid want to go to such a school when she most likely could have gotten into a much better school? The young girls who chose these Elementary Ed degrees at places like Salisbury aren't typically high flyers. Is that where high stat kids really want to go to college?

If you want to attract high stat/top students to go into teaching, their elementary education degree needs to be subsidized. It doesn't make sense to pay nearly $80,000 a year for a job that offers so little in return. Top students don't want to "lower" themselves by going to places like Salisbury for college.

Aside from the financial aspect, teaching isn't a flexible job. Maybe the top students don't want to enter a job that isn't flexible. They see their parents having flexibility and freedom with working from home. They see their parents can easily leave work in the middle of the day to go to a dr.'s appt/pick their kid up from school. Teacher's schedules are so much more regimented. Do top students want that for themselves?

[Anonymous]

You posted: In my view, “majoring in elementary education” has to become a more valid degree. Now it’s too often a way to skate through college for young women who are there to have a good time. This does not appeal generally to the brightest students.

Seriously? WTF is wrong with you? Way to promote misogyny there with the talk about "girls". No mention about all the dumb "boys" in frats who are only there to get drunk and rape when they can.
This is just another thread that shows the total ignorance of people who talk about schools yet have never taught in one. Maybe you need to think about what it means to send your children to spend the majority of their lives with people you don't respect. I would never do that because I love my children. But hey, if you think you can really love your kids and still send them to dumb people all day, I got a bridge I can sell you....

[Anonymous]

My BFF is a brilliant man. He's a POC who graduated Harvard top of his class with English and Philosophy degrees and has a PhD in humanities from a top school. He's a well-regarded scholar who has been published a lot. He's also independently (very) wealthy, so after graduation he went to teach in the city in Houston, in a low income minority HS. He lasted less than a year and he told me that the harassment (he's a gay man) was unbelievable. The principal didn't care about the staff's safety or the students. My friend teaches now at a prep school now in NY of the same caliber as Dalton and he absolutely loves it. He told me that the kids are engaged, eager to learn, and super polite. I think he has only 10 kids in class. He's not worried about his safety and the administration, despite being super political, is supportive and responsive to his needs. He's getting promoted to the head of the lower school soon.

[Anonymous]

Pay them more. And pay them more again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Universities and colleges need to step up their own programs for educating teachers and design degree programs that will help create teachers that are capable of teaching AND managing a classroom.

All teachers should take multiple classes on teach students with the most widely diagnosed learning disabilities, emotional disabilities and physical disabilities. In other words, "special education" as a specialization should become way more specialized and the general course should be shifted to all teachers.

Improve teacher reading and writing instruction courses.

Require a course in project management and a course in professional communication strategies.

Create student teaching opportunities far earlier and far more often.

Require several course with student teaching of class room behavior management techniques.

Then once they do all that and up the profile of their own programs, make teaching a direct admit program similar to Nursing.

States need to be more proactive in their own requirements for teaching licensure. I think the PP suggesting an internship has the right idea. Or some kind of paid supervised pathway to full licensure. And supervised meaning, they are with another teacher in the classroom full time for at least a year.

To require so much coursework, the salary needs to triple.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I posted previously stating basically that schools would have to pay more to attract top students into teaching. But there's wishful dreaming and then there's reality. We will NEVER pay teachers much more than what they make now. It will never happen. Teachers will never get more support with challenging kids. When it comes down to it, no one really cares. So why bother even thinking about it?

So, so true!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my view, “majoring in elementary education” has to become a more valid degree. Now it’s too often a way to skate through college for young women who are there to have a good time. This does not appeal generally to the brightest students.

Besides the pay, the college experience/return on investment has to be so much better than it is.

Let's pretend you are a normal, UMC DC family with a high stat child. If they have their heart set on being an elementary school teacher. Which college would make the most sense to get their degree - Salisbury State or an elite SLAC/Ivy?

Unless your family is super wealthy, it doesn't make sense to pay for an expensive private school for a degree in elementary education so a school like Salisbury it is.

But your child is a high stat child. Do you think Salisbury college will have the same amount of high stats kids? Would your kid want to go to such a school when she most likely could have gotten into a much better school? The young girls who chose these Elementary Ed degrees at places like Salisbury aren't typically high flyers. Is that where high stat kids really want to go to college?

If you want to attract high stat/top students to go into teaching, their elementary education degree needs to be subsidized. It doesn't make sense to pay nearly $80,000 a year for a job that offers so little in return. Top students don't want to "lower" themselves by going to places like Salisbury for college.

Aside from the financial aspect, teaching isn't a flexible job. Maybe the top students don't want to enter a job that isn't flexible. They see their parents having flexibility and freedom with working from home. They see their parents can easily leave work in the middle of the day to go to a dr.'s appt/pick their kid up from school. Teacher's schedules are so much more regimented. Do top students want that for themselves?

At my MD school, all of our student teachers go to Towson. Many of them are from wealthy families and many were excellent students in HS. What makes a good ES teacher is not being the smartest in the room. ES teaching in particular requires a different skill set. It requires high levels of patience. Patience with students, parents, admin, the system. After that, ES teachers have a million balls in the air at the same time so they need to excel at multitasking. They need to be able to focus in a HIGHLY distracting environment too. Some days, that is my downfall. I'm an introvert and I am exhausted by school many days. If teachers can handle all of these, then they need to be able to teach. Some days, you don't even get to that part. We've had the smartest people in the room come in to volunteer and they leave exhausted and relieved that teaching is not their job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m aware that this is a touchy subject. I know there’s also debate over whether teachers should be getting subject matter degrees then specializing in education in a master’s program, versus majoring in education as an undergraduate. My opinion is that that would need to take into account credential inflation and that students would need to pay more to become teachers than they previously needed to. Currently, universities that were historically and continue to ones that produce teachers have low average SAT scores, graduation rates and other factors.

Create a high-school-to-teaching career path that guarantees that great high school students who meet program college performance, curriculum and student teaching requirements can get a job in a specific struggling district.

My understanding is that, in a normal year, it’s tough for young teachers to get jobs where they want to work. Maybe it makes sense that they have trouble getting the cushy jobs, but, if they actually want the challenging jobs, make it easier for great students to get those.

[Anonymous]

I went to a top university, earned a math degree, was a career switcher early on and became a teacher. I have been teaching over 20 years and make over 100k. I don’t have complaints about the salary or benefits. I liked teaching a lot more 10 years ago.

I wouldn’t encourage anyone to become a teacher now and tell my own children I won’t pay tuition if they decide to major in education. My parents told me not to do it and I should have listened. I like the students and actually teaching. It’s become harder, not easier, with people making decisions about what I can and can’t do and they have little to no classroom experience. As I get older, I also realize how little time I have to ever use a bathroom.

I don’t have behavior issues and the students are usually the only part of my job left that I really enjoy. If you want to attract people to this profession, let them have control over their classes again. Stop mandating excessive tests for data that’s never used. Build in time to use a bathroom and eat lunch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m aware that this is a touchy subject. I know there’s also debate over whether teachers should be getting subject matter degrees then specializing in education in a master’s program, versus majoring in education as an undergraduate. My opinion is that that would need to take into account credential inflation and that students would need to pay more to become teachers than they previously needed to. Currently, universities that were historically and continue to ones that produce teachers have low average SAT scores, graduation rates and other factors.

double the salaries

[Anonymous]

Pay really is the issue. If pay were considerably higher teaching would be more appealing - I actually think it interests a lot of people but the salary is a nonstarter. The lack of respect is a major issue but if it becomes a higher paying profession I believe that would start to change. It would also likely then attract more men. A major issue with teaching is that it was one of the “pink collar professions” and of course anything that’s largely female is seen as inferior in our society. Although the schedule is one of the things that does currently attract people, moving to year round school might make teaching stand out less from other professional jobs. Teachers and students would still get time off but it would be more staggered.

I can’t say I have any hope of this happening in the US.

[Anonymous]

Money. I teach advanced classes in a high school, and while numerous students have told me they wish they could pursue teaching, they aren’t doing it because they wouldn’t be financially self sufficient. They see the salaries of their siblings with degrees in business and suddenly the teaching pay scale is pathetic.

I’m only a teacher because my spouse makes decent money. We joke that my career is our “charitable donation” to society every time we do our taxes.

[Anonymous]

It’s not as simple as more pay.

Teachers need more in-class support (paraprofessionals, second SPED or ELL teacher in the room) to meet the needs of all students. Increasing class sizes and diverse needs mean teachers are often expected to do more than humanly possible.

The reality is that the sub shortage and occasional absences of support staff mean that I’m regularly called upon to individually meet the needs of students who are supposed to have a second adult in the classroom at all times (yes, my administrators know I can’t be two people at once, and either can’t or won’t do anything to address this issue).

I knew what I would get paid when I went into this field. I knew it would be a lot of work. I didn’t know I would be asked to do more with less with each passing year.

- Top student, 10+ years in teaching public school, leaving the classroom at the end of the school year

[Anonymous]

You have to bar women from becoming doctors, lawyers, bankers, engineers, scientists, etc. The teaching profession was so much higher quality (and had a higher regard) when the “best and brightest” women went to it by default.

Even when I went to HS in the late 90s, there was a big gap between the intelligence levels of older vs. younger teachers

[Anonymous]

Standardized curriculum, standardized textbooks, standardized syllabus. Aides in each classroom. Teachers should not be responsible for classroom discipline. Aides and administrators need to handle discipline.

Standardized assignments, tests should be sent home after grading, parental involvement should be a must. Countywide or statewide final exams after each semester.

Extend the school year slightly, with breaks between each quarter.

Teachers need to be paid more and should have the right to remove 10% of disruptive students from their classroom.