How do we get top students (as defined by high school SAT and GPA) to enter public school teaching?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Teachers don't have autonomy. Their judgment isn't respected. Test scores drive everything. And it just sucks all the air out the room. And the pay, for the amount of education, is not worth it long term.

Maybe if it was like nursing and teachers could be like travel nurses and make 300K a year if they worked in hard schools. That might work to get young people with other options in the profession.

But really, it's money. Pay teachers more (like a lot more) and you'll see droves of people running to teach.

-TFA alum who works in corporate training and makes 180K a year.

Nursing direct admit programs, at least at any public institution (public universities and ADN programs at community colleges) are nearly impossible to get into nowadays, perhaps due to demand because prospective applicants know how much they can make as travel nurses.

[Anonymous]

Teacher here. I had a 1430 SAT score and attended a top liberal arts school. I currently have a masters degree but know teachers with PHDs who would agree with me. More money is tops. Second is better discipline of students. Schools have no way to control students who disrupt classrooms anymore. We want to teach, not do babysitting or do crowd control all day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Universities and colleges need to step up their own programs for educating teachers and design degree programs that will help create teachers that are capable of teaching AND managing a classroom.

All teachers should take multiple classes on teach students with the most widely diagnosed learning disabilities, emotional disabilities and physical disabilities. In other words, "special education" as a specialization should become way more specialized and the general course should be shifted to all teachers.

Improve teacher reading and writing instruction courses.

Require a course in project management and a course in professional communication strategies.

Create student teaching opportunities far earlier and far more often.

Require several course with student teaching of class room behavior management techniques.

Then once they do all that and up the profile of their own programs, make teaching a direct admit program similar to Nursing.

States need to be more proactive in their own requirements for teaching licensure. I think the PP suggesting an internship has the right idea. Or some kind of paid supervised pathway to full licensure. And supervised meaning, they are with another teacher in the classroom full time for at least a year.

Universities and colleges could have great programs, it's irrelevant if you can't pay off your student loans as a teacher.

No, I don't think all universities and colleges have great programs. And there are many affordable public colleges and universities in many states .

And yes, I do think that teacher pay does need to be increased.

There are tons of affordable programs and there is little reason to attend an expensive school over Longwood if the goal is teaching. No one in their right mind is paying 80k a year for an amazing education and then going into teaching unless they come from a very wealthy family

I agree with you. For a student in VA who wants to become a teacher, Longwood is the best choice.

[Anonymous]

1) Have free teaching license/certification programs available to top graduates of content majors in college. Earn a certain GPA and you can get your licensure program for free.

2) Students with a certain SAT/HS GPA can be given scholarships to enroll in a concurrent teaching licensure program during their undergraduate years (or do precursor courses for it and then have a free +1 year to finish up).

3) Provide students with a certain SAT/HS GPA/College GPA a stipend to do their student teaching.

There are a number of majors (e.g., English, History, Math, Biology, Physics, Foreign Languages) where students sometimes struggle to find their first job or are planning to do graduate work but aren't ready to start yet where financial support to get the teaching license might encourage them to at least teach for awhile.

Once they are teachers, provide teaching-centered routes towards advancement--e.g., you can achieve leadership/administrative positions that still involve part-time teaching--such as curriculum writing, faculty coach etc. that pay significantly more. I think advancement opportunities with notable increases in pay for merit are needed. Admin roles should all have a teaching requirement (e.g., you teach 1 course a year or a semester full time a minimum every three years) so good teachers get recruited into higher paying leadership positions.

[Anonymous]

DD scored in the top 3% Math SAT. Obtained a STEM doctorate. Before learning she was admitted to the program, considered instead, what it would take to teach Math. It was just going to take too many classes in Math. She had college calculus but it was going to take many more -- and I don't mean the classes re: Education.

In order to teach at the middle school level? or high school? Few students need to be taught at a level beyond hs calculus.

[Anonymous]

Also, many teachers don't major in "Education" as their undergraduate degree, they major in their content area (it's required in VA and other states) and then do a licensing program. This is what you need to do if you want secondary school certification or preK-12 certification for the most flexibility. So straight up "education" majors are often those opting to just be early education/elementary school teachers OR are from states with relatively weak licensure criteria. So findings about the SAT/GPA of undergraduate Education majors does not translate to findings about the SAT/GPA of public school teachers.

[Anonymous]

You all are missing that teachers have less annual work hours and more time off than most jobs. That's part of why the pay is lower.

I don't disagree that the pay should be raised, but i think if we want to professionalize teaching, make it year round. Summer school would be great, especially to help catch kids up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You all are missing that teachers have less annual work hours and more time off than most jobs. That's part of why the pay is lower.

I don't disagree that the pay should be raised, but i think if we want to professionalize teaching, make it year round. Summer school would be great, especially to help catch kids up.

I know why the pay is lower. But the time off isn’t enticing top performing students to enter teaching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You all are missing that teachers have less annual work hours and more time off than most jobs. That's part of why the pay is lower.

I don't disagree that the pay should be raised, but i think if we want to professionalize teaching, make it year round. Summer school would be great, especially to help catch kids up.

Every school district offers summer school options. Although all should have in person options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You all are missing that teachers have less annual work hours and more time off than most jobs. That's part of why the pay is lower.

I don't disagree that the pay should be raised, but i think if we want to professionalize teaching, make it year round. Summer school would be great, especially to help catch kids up.

Do you have anything to add with regard to how we could get people who were great students to enter teaching?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You all are missing that teachers have less annual work hours and more time off than most jobs. That's part of why the pay is lower.

I don't disagree that the pay should be raised, but i think if we want to professionalize teaching, make it year round. Summer school would be great, especially to help catch kids up.

UMC families aren’t interested in having their kids be forced to sit in a hot building over the summer, and it would not look good to force low-performing kids to go in the summer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You all are missing that teachers have less annual work hours and more time off than most jobs. That's part of why the pay is lower.

I don't disagree that the pay should be raised, but i think if we want to professionalize teaching, make it year round. Summer school would be great, especially to help catch kids up.

I’m a teacher and I work a ton of hours outside my standard work hours. That is the only way to do a good job especially in years 1-5 of teaching

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You all are missing that teachers have less annual work hours and more time off than most jobs. That's part of why the pay is lower.

I don't disagree that the pay should be raised, but i think if we want to professionalize teaching, make it year round. Summer school would be great, especially to help catch kids up.

Teachers don't have fewer annual work hours; their hours are just clustered into ten months. Those two months they aren't getting paid? That's comp time, functionally if not in name.

When my kids were in elementary school, I would sometimes have to do drop off and pickup from extended day. The teachers were arriving when I arrived at 7 and leaving when I was picking up at 5 (or later). And they were taking work home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
One way that top students can be steered into public school teaching is through Teach for America. It's how one of my kids -- an honors graduate of a top 10 liberal arts college -- entered the field. While many TFA alums move on to other things, some don't -- including my kid and several others who I know well.

In the case of my kid, though, she was able to stay in the profession notwithstanding the relatively low pay because (1) she had no student loans and (2) her husband -- a graduate of the same college but with a less impressive college transcript -- went into private industry and almost immediately began making more money than her.

Teach for America really devalues the importance of training to creating effective teachers. I am sure your daughter and her friends have the best of intentions, but you don't learn to teach by going through a a brief course the summer before you're plunked into a classroom. And most of the TFA alumni I know didn't go back to learn how to teach. Some of them went to get MEds so they could go into administration, because those who can't do administrate.

Which gets to one of the main things that drive people from the profession: Being overseen and evaluated by things that don't reflect your ability by people who don't understand your job. That, and the low pay, are going to drain the pool of talent faster than anything else.

+1 TFA came at what seemed like the right time with the best intentions but any experienced teacher knows that a successful classroom is 85ish% classroom management. This comes with experience, both life and professional.

[Anonymous]

Pay them more. The end. In some places, teachers start at $30k. Those are poverty wages, and it's hard to make a life on that, particularly if you have student loans.

In the olden days, you could live decently as a teacher. I know, since my single mom was a teacher (then administrator), and we lived a solidly middle class life on that one salary. I took private music lessons, dance classes several days per week, she owned (and still owns) and always had a nice, working car.