South Asian male applicants

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any south Asian male student parents on? Or do any of you have any ideas of how the admission season is panning out for them? It is very tough in our school---south Asian boys even with very high stats and scores and good ECs did not get into ED. Worried parent of a South Asian male junior. Please no politics.

Do you understand that nearly all admissions decisions tend to be a lot more nuanced than just stats and test scores?

Do you also understand that a LOT of kids with very high stats and scores of all races and genders are having trouble gaining admission to their top choices?

OP here: Yes, I do. It is just hard(er) when a URM student whose parents are very well to do and who has lower stats and non spectacular ECs gets into a selective college and the South Asian student does not. We would have to be ostriches to deny this is happening. And I am talking about a South Asian applicant who has won hackathons and national competitions versus a candidate who has just participated in a school varsity sports teams and school clubs.
My child is still a junior so I am not talking about my student.

When the differences are obvious nuances kind of become irrelevant.

Schools value students ec's not because they are measures of value, but because they want students who will contribute in diverse ways to the school community. So they want athletes who will populate their intramural clubs, musicians for the marching band and other music groups, club leaders who will form and lead clubs, people who will host hack-a-thons etc. These aren't meant to be some measure of relative merit--schools select a community. So the hackathon kid is in competition with the other hackathon kids more than the sports team captains or the artists or musicians or social activists. So the more accurate evidence of there being potential racial bias in your example would be if the hackathon winning/national competition Asian kid with higher stats was not accepted while a non-Asia hackathon losing kid who didn't qualify for the national competition with lower stats applying to the same major.

And note--you seem to downplay varsity sports in favor of winning hackathons--but sports are valued in the US and US colleges. Even if athletes don't play on the college teams there is a belief that varsity athletic performance is evidence of discipline, collaboration and achievement. It's not seen as less meritocratic or relevant than programming skills. You may disagree with this, but it has long been a meaningful part of the conception of merit in the US college system.

Sure.. But unless you are outstanding in your sport, it does not add any value to the process. My SA kid played a sport for 7+ years - in school, travel and summer. That did zero to help him.
He also had leadership roles in STEM and non-STEM clubs (5 years in that club activity). Not really sure if the non-STEM club leadership roles helped him.

Most of the racist biases in college admissions are felt by Asians. Other groups don't know about it or tend to minimize it because (1) it really doesn't hurt them (2) they think it's no big deal, even if true. Advice along the lines of "any college will do" is just BS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the parent of a South Asian male senior. This is how it is playing out - excellent EC, top grades, rigorous curriculum, top SATs, prestigious internships. job, community service, national and state level honors, good recommendations, great essays etc... but riding the rejection train currently. We are full pay family.

My kid is brilliant and in STEM field, so he will be ok even in a not-top college. Eventually, he will be employed because of his skills and because barrier to entry is high for his career choice. He refused to lie on his application and clearly said that he wanted to do CS or Engineering...which is death knell for South Asian males. Maybe he will go via the community college route? Who knows.

Basically, savvy SA people are going for CS/Engineering - adjacent majors along with another humanities major like gender studies/ women studies/LGBTQ studies etc. Most are also pretending that they are bisexual or binary (using They/Them) and writing in their essays that their South Asian parents have been beating the sh1t out of them because of their sexuality. All of this is allowing them to get into Ivy Leagues. My son did not have the appetite for that so that is that...

Also, by being denied admissions because of his race has made him more savvy about racial-politics in USA. His blinders are off, and hopefully this will teach him to be less idealistic and more capable of looking out for his own interests in the future. USA is all about screwing every one else, and this lesson was very important for him to learn.

I don’t disagree that being South Asian (or any kind of Asian) puts a kid at a disadvantage for college admissions.

However, I take issue with your last comment. Sounds like you want to find a reason to hate the USA. I hope you have family in India or Pakistan (or whichever country you are from). The culture there is very much about looking our for yourself and screw what happens to ‘others’.

The reason Asians are discriminated against here in the US is because Blacks and Latinos have a harder time and the US colleges are trying to adjust for that.

DP. This is a false narrative. Asian students are not competing against these minorities but with Whites. The White perspective seems to be "Let me make sure me and mine are taken care of first and then I'll help the groups I want to promote because I feel good about it".

I'm all for set-asides for people with at least 75% Blacks or Native American heritage. Why Hispanics? Why for recent immigrants from South American, Spain or Nigeria? Beyond that it should be based on means. Not that difficult to codify this so we all know what we are walking into.

And no, colleges can't do what they feel like. They are publicly subsidized (including the Private schools) and can be made to follow such guidelines.

[Anonymous]

South Asian parent here. South Asian boys certainly have to put in much effort than even a South Asian girl.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any south Asian male student parents on? Or do any of you have any ideas of how the admission season is panning out for them? It is very tough in our school---south Asian boys even with very high stats and scores and good ECs did not get into ED. Worried parent of a South Asian male junior. Please no politics.

Do you understand that nearly all admissions decisions tend to be a lot more nuanced than just stats and test scores?

Do you also understand that a LOT of kids with very high stats and scores of all races and genders are having trouble gaining admission to their top choices?

OP here: Yes, I do. It is just hard(er) when a URM student whose parents are very well to do and who has lower stats and non spectacular ECs gets into a selective college and the South Asian student does not. We would have to be ostriches to deny this is happening. And I am talking about a South Asian applicant who has won hackathons and national competitions versus a candidate who has just participated in a school varsity sports teams and school clubs.
My child is still a junior so I am not talking about my student.

When the differences are obvious nuances kind of become irrelevant.

Schools value students ec's not because they are measures of value, but because they want students who will contribute in diverse ways to the school community. So they want athletes who will populate their intramural clubs, musicians for the marching band and other music groups, club leaders who will form and lead clubs, people who will host hack-a-thons etc. These aren't meant to be some measure of relative merit--schools select a community. So the hackathon kid is in competition with the other hackathon kids more than the sports team captains or the artists or musicians or social activists. So the more accurate evidence of there being potential racial bias in your example would be if the hackathon winning/national competition Asian kid with higher stats was not accepted while a non-Asia hackathon losing kid who didn't qualify for the national competition with lower stats applying to the same major.

And note--you seem to downplay varsity sports in favor of winning hackathons--but sports are valued in the US and US colleges. Even if athletes don't play on the college teams there is a belief that varsity athletic performance is evidence of discipline, collaboration and achievement. It's not seen as less meritocratic or relevant than programming skills. You may disagree with this, but it has long been a meaningful part of the conception of merit in the US college system.

Sure.. But unless you are outstanding in your sport, it does not add any value to the process. My SA kid played a sport for 7+ years - in school, travel and summer. That did zero to help him.
He also had leadership roles in STEM and non-STEM clubs (5 years in that club activity). Not really sure if the non-STEM club leadership roles helped him.

Most of the racist biases in college admissions are felt by Asians. Other groups don't know about it or tend to minimize it because (1) it really doesn't hurt them (2) they think it's no big deal, even if true. Advice along the lines of "any college will do" is just BS.

Sports only matter if you are good enough to play in college, it's the same for kids of every race,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Any south Asian male student parents on? Or do any of you have any ideas of how the admission season is panning out for them? It is very tough in our school---south Asian boys even with very high stats and scores and good ECs did not get into ED. Worried parent of a South Asian male junior. Please no politics.

Your son has to excel in many more activities than his counterparts if he wants to get into HYPSM. My DS was accepted in top 3 in early round, but it was years of efforts that he has put in to get there...national/international awards, tons of ECA's woith leadership in school and national level. His junior year (COVID year) flew by as it was his busiest year when he got a lot done.
If you son is a junior, I would say, do not waste any time, he has to take his passion to the highest possible level if his goal is HYPSM

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the parent of a South Asian male senior. This is how it is playing out - excellent EC, top grades, rigorous curriculum, top SATs, prestigious internships. job, community service, national and state level honors, good recommendations, great essays etc... but riding the rejection train currently. We are full pay family.

My kid is brilliant and in STEM field, so he will be ok even in a not-top college. Eventually, he will be employed because of his skills and because barrier to entry is high for his career choice. He refused to lie on his application and clearly said that he wanted to do CS or Engineering...which is death knell for South Asian males. Maybe he will go via the community college route? Who knows.

Basically, savvy SA people are going for CS/Engineering - adjacent majors along with another humanities major like gender studies/ women studies/LGBTQ studies etc. Most are also pretending that they are bisexual or binary (using They/Them) and writing in their essays that their South Asian parents have been beating the sh1t out of them because of their sexuality. All of this is allowing them to get into Ivy Leagues. My son did not have the appetite for that so that is that...

Also, by being denied admissions because of his race has made him more savvy about racial-politics in USA. His blinders are off, and hopefully this will teach him to be less idealistic and more capable of looking out for his own interests in the future. USA is all about screwing every one else, and this lesson was very important for him to learn.

I don’t disagree that being South Asian (or any kind of Asian) puts a kid at a disadvantage for college admissions.

However, I take issue with your last comment. Sounds like you want to find a reason to hate the USA. I hope you have family in India or Pakistan (or whichever country you are from). The culture there is very much about looking our for yourself and screw what happens to ‘others’.

The reason Asians are discriminated against here in the US is because Blacks and Latinos have a harder time and the US colleges are trying to adjust for that.

Your entire post is a racist rant. But, get it in your thick head that this is not your country and has never been. So, I can live here and say what I want unless the native Americans tell everyone to leave. This is my country now and I probably own a bigger part of it than you will ever do.

Unfortunately, more Blacks and Latinos are not replacing Asian-Americans. Asians are being replaced with lower performing Whites. US colleges can try and adjust for whatever they think they want to adjust for, eventually, South Asians are getting the jobs based on their skills and qualification and doing this without and student loans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the parent of a South Asian male senior. This is how it is playing out - excellent EC, top grades, rigorous curriculum, top SATs, prestigious internships. job, community service, national and state level honors, good recommendations, great essays etc... but riding the rejection train currently. We are full pay family.

My kid is brilliant and in STEM field, so he will be ok even in a not-top college. Eventually, he will be employed because of his skills and because barrier to entry is high for his career choice. He refused to lie on his application and clearly said that he wanted to do CS or Engineering...which is death knell for South Asian males. Maybe he will go via the community college route? Who knows.

Basically, savvy SA people are going for CS/Engineering - adjacent majors along with another humanities major like gender studies/ women studies/LGBTQ studies etc. Most are also pretending that they are bisexual or binary (using They/Them) and writing in their essays that their South Asian parents have been beating the sh1t out of them because of their sexuality. All of this is allowing them to get into Ivy Leagues. My son did not have the appetite for that so that is that...

Also, by being denied admissions because of his race has made him more savvy about racial-politics in USA. His blinders are off, and hopefully this will teach him to be less idealistic and more capable of looking out for his own interests in the future. USA is all about screwing every one else, and this lesson was very important for him to learn.

I don’t disagree that being South Asian (or any kind of Asian) puts a kid at a disadvantage for college admissions.

However, I take issue with your last comment. Sounds like you want to find a reason to hate the USA. I hope you have family in India or Pakistan (or whichever country you are from). The culture there is very much about looking our for yourself and screw what happens to ‘others’.

The reason Asians are discriminated against here in the US is because Blacks and Latinos have a harder time and the US colleges are trying to adjust for that.

DP. This is a false narrative. Asian students are not competing against these minorities but with Whites. The White perspective seems to be "Let me make sure me and mine are taken care of first and then I'll help the groups I want to promote because I feel good about it".

I'm all for set-asides for people with at least 75% Blacks or Native American heritage. Why Hispanics? Why for recent immigrants from South American, Spain or Nigeria? Beyond that it should be based on means. Not that difficult to codify this so we all know what we are walking into.

And no, colleges can't do what they feel like. They are publicly subsidized (including the Private schools) and can be made to follow such guidelines.

They can do what they feel like because there are no such guidelines nor is there any prospect of your guidelines being implemented.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the parent of a South Asian male senior. This is how it is playing out - excellent EC, top grades, rigorous curriculum, top SATs, prestigious internships. job, community service, national and state level honors, good recommendations, great essays etc... but riding the rejection train currently. We are full pay family.

My kid is brilliant and in STEM field, so he will be ok even in a not-top college. Eventually, he will be employed because of his skills and because barrier to entry is high for his career choice. He refused to lie on his application and clearly said that he wanted to do CS or Engineering...which is death knell for South Asian males. Maybe he will go via the community college route? Who knows.

Basically, savvy SA people are going for CS/Engineering - adjacent majors along with another humanities major like gender studies/ women studies/LGBTQ studies etc. Most are also pretending that they are bisexual or binary (using They/Them) and writing in their essays that their South Asian parents have been beating the sh1t out of them because of their sexuality. All of this is allowing them to get into Ivy Leagues. My son did not have the appetite for that so that is that...

Also, by being denied admissions because of his race has made him more savvy about racial-politics in USA. His blinders are off, and hopefully this will teach him to be less idealistic and more capable of looking out for his own interests in the future. USA is all about screwing every one else, and this lesson was very important for him to learn.

I don’t disagree that being South Asian (or any kind of Asian) puts a kid at a disadvantage for college admissions.

However, I take issue with your last comment. Sounds like you want to find a reason to hate the USA. I hope you have family in India or Pakistan (or whichever country you are from). The culture there is very much about looking our for yourself and screw what happens to ‘others’.

The reason Asians are discriminated against here in the US is because Blacks and Latinos have a harder time and the US colleges are trying to adjust for that.

Your entire post is a racist rant. But, get it in your thick head that this is not your country and has never been. So, I can live here and say what I want unless the native Americans tell everyone to leave. This is my country now and I probably own a bigger part of it than you will ever do.

Unfortunately, more Blacks and Latinos are not replacing Asian-Americans. Asians are being replaced with lower performing Whites. US colleges can try and adjust for whatever they think they want to adjust for, eventually, South Asians are getting the jobs based on their skills and qualification and doing this without and student loans.

Implying that South Asians are somehow intellectually superior makes you sound really racist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the parent of a South Asian male senior. This is how it is playing out - excellent EC, top grades, rigorous curriculum, top SATs, prestigious internships. job, community service, national and state level honors, good recommendations, great essays etc... but riding the rejection train currently. We are full pay family.

My kid is brilliant and in STEM field, so he will be ok even in a not-top college. Eventually, he will be employed because of his skills and because barrier to entry is high for his career choice. He refused to lie on his application and clearly said that he wanted to do CS or Engineering...which is death knell for South Asian males. Maybe he will go via the community college route? Who knows.

Basically, savvy SA people are going for CS/Engineering - adjacent majors along with another humanities major like gender studies/ women studies/LGBTQ studies etc. Most are also pretending that they are bisexual or binary (using They/Them) and writing in their essays that their South Asian parents have been beating the sh1t out of them because of their sexuality. All of this is allowing them to get into Ivy Leagues. My son did not have the appetite for that so that is that...

Also, by being denied admissions because of his race has made him more savvy about racial-politics in USA. His blinders are off, and hopefully this will teach him to be less idealistic and more capable of looking out for his own interests in the future. USA is all about screwing every one else, and this lesson was very important for him to learn.

I don’t disagree that being South Asian (or any kind of Asian) puts a kid at a disadvantage for college admissions.

However, I take issue with your last comment. Sounds like you want to find a reason to hate the USA. I hope you have family in India or Pakistan (or whichever country you are from). The culture there is very much about looking our for yourself and screw what happens to ‘others’.

The reason Asians are discriminated against here in the US is because Blacks and Latinos have a harder time and the US colleges are trying to adjust for that.

Terrible assumption, on many levels.

[Anonymous]

Standing out is good. If he is largely science/math based and ECs are quizbowl and robotics, it won't really help in this regard. Is there anything artswise that might interest him? Creative writing? Film? Art? Theatre? SAM are unerrepresented in theatre.

Sounds like you have a bright kid who will do well wherever he goes to school. It wouldn't be a bad idea to remind yourself (& him) of that. There are a lot of great schools that aren't T20.

[Anonymous]

Asians make up 5.9% of the US population. So they should make up 5.9% of the admissions at every university in order to be representative. Anything over that is overrepresentation.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045221

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Asians make up 5.9% of the US population. So they should make up 5.9% of the admissions at every university in order to be representative. Anything over that is overrepresentation.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045221

Will you keep that mentality when your child needs a doctor to perform a serious operation? Or, would you have wanted medical schools to choose the people who are actually the best candidates?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the parent of a South Asian male senior. This is how it is playing out - excellent EC, top grades, rigorous curriculum, top SATs, prestigious internships. job, community service, national and state level honors, good recommendations, great essays etc... but riding the rejection train currently. We are full pay family.

My kid is brilliant and in STEM field, so he will be ok even in a not-top college. Eventually, he will be employed because of his skills and because barrier to entry is high for his career choice. He refused to lie on his application and clearly said that he wanted to do CS or Engineering...which is death knell for South Asian males. Maybe he will go via the community college route? Who knows.

Basically, savvy SA people are going for CS/Engineering - adjacent majors along with another humanities major like gender studies/ women studies/LGBTQ studies etc. Most are also pretending that they are bisexual or binary (using They/Them) and writing in their essays that their South Asian parents have been beating the sh1t out of them because of their sexuality. All of this is allowing them to get into Ivy Leagues. My son did not have the appetite for that so that is that...

Also, by being denied admissions because of his race has made him more savvy about racial-politics in USA. His blinders are off, and hopefully this will teach him to be less idealistic and more capable of looking out for his own interests in the future. USA is all about screwing every one else, and this lesson was very important for him to learn.

I don’t disagree that being South Asian (or any kind of Asian) puts a kid at a disadvantage for college admissions.

However, I take issue with your last comment. Sounds like you want to find a reason to hate the USA. I hope you have family in India or Pakistan (or whichever country you are from). The culture there is very much about looking our for yourself and screw what happens to ‘others’.

The reason Asians are discriminated against here in the US is because Blacks and Latinos have a harder time and the US colleges are trying to adjust for that.

DP. This is a false narrative. Asian students are not competing against these minorities but with Whites. The Human perspective seems to be "Let me make sure me and mine are taken care of first and then I'll help the groups I want to promote because I feel good about it".

I'm all for set-asides for people with at least 75% Blacks or Native American heritage. Why Hispanics? Why for recent immigrants from South American, Spain or Nigeria? Beyond that it should be based on means. Not that difficult to codify this so we all know what we are walking into.

And no, colleges can't do what they feel like. They are publicly subsidized (including the Private schools) and can be made to follow such guidelines.

Fixed it for you.

- Evolutionary biologist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am the parent of a South Asian male senior. This is how it is playing out - excellent EC, top grades, rigorous curriculum, top SATs, prestigious internships. job, community service, national and state level honors, good recommendations, great essays etc... but riding the rejection train currently. We are full pay family.

My kid is brilliant and in STEM field, so he will be ok even in a not-top college. Eventually, he will be employed because of his skills and because barrier to entry is high for his career choice. He refused to lie on his application and clearly said that he wanted to do CS or Engineering...which is death knell for South Asian males. Maybe he will go via the community college route? Who knows.

Basically, savvy SA people are going for CS/Engineering - adjacent majors along with another humanities major like gender studies/ women studies/LGBTQ studies etc. Most are also pretending that they are bisexual or binary (using They/Them) and writing in their essays that their South Asian parents have been beating the sh1t out of them because of their sexuality. All of this is allowing them to get into Ivy Leagues. My son did not have the appetite for that so that is that...

Also, by being denied admissions because of his race has made him more savvy about racial-politics in USA. His blinders are off, and hopefully this will teach him to be less idealistic and more capable of looking out for his own interests in the future. USA is all about screwing every one else, and this lesson was very important for him to learn.

This seems overly dramatic with many false statements "Most are also pretending..." No, most are not doing this. And, if he is brilliant, the cc suggestion is like begging for the tiny violins to play. It's a tough market, and I'm sorry for your kid. I have a blonde white girl in theatre. I know your pain. But, let's not exaggerate the duplicity or others or the bleakness of our own situations. Yeah, both of our kids' races add a challenge, but it is complete exaggeration to say they are "denied" because of race. Colleges want a a diverse environment. They don't want all blonde girl actors or SAM engineers. It is what it is, and it is a good thing for the campus overall. You can encourage your kid to stand out in other ways -- mine is also in a STEM magnet w/ very advanced math. Yours could do theatre or something else. They can also both get great educations at other schools (that are not cc, but those are pretty good in this area as well). Hang in there, but try not to put the blame on other people or politics here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians make up 5.9% of the US population. So they should make up 5.9% of the admissions at every university in order to be representative. Anything over that is overrepresentation.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045221

Will you keep that mentality when your child needs a doctor to perform a serious operation? Or, would you have wanted medical schools to choose the people who are actually the best candidates?

Overrepresentation in any field, like in universities, does not necessarily indicate that these are all the "best candidates." That is a silly argument. People w/ access to enrichment and opportunities have historically gotten these spots/jobs. They might grow w/ more inclusion.