Do you think doctors are rich people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Taken as a whole, physicians still have the highest salaries of any profession:

Median income for attorneys: $123K
Median income for software engineers: $108K
Median income for physicians: $208K

And of course, some specialists will earn far more than that.

You have to take into account opportunity cost. Residency is low pay at 50-60k for around 7 years after 4 years of medical school which is 60-100k a year depending on where. It’s better to be at engineer and make 100k throughout your 20s. Also, Physician Assistant is great - only 2 years no residency and make anywhere between 100-200 k

Agree with all of this. In the overall financial picture, physicians do not come out ahead. Not to mention your 20s are spent studying and working insane hours.

Well said. My DH has sacrificed his health and youth and I'm not sure the money when or if it comes is going to be worth it I've worked hard to keep us on track with our financial goals during his training, but the first 5 years of his attending salary are already allotted to catching up (down payment/no equity never owned, paying off student loans, retirement, 529, etc). This doesn't make us poor, but I don't think we're living the lifestyle that people imagine. Seeing medicine for what it is, if our children showed an interest I would encourage them to pursue PA or NP unless they want to be a surgeon.

[Anonymous]

My husband worked in a private practice in Maryland, where there are limits on the amount of money doctors can get reimbursed by insurance companies for procedures. The old docs in the practice who started out under the old rules were rich, with huge houses, boats, vacation homes, etc. The young docs on the current salary were barely making ends meet in the DC area. We left, and now feel comfortable on the same salary in a lower COL area. But we are far from rich. Med school loans are costing about 3k per month for the forseeable future. Started saving for retirement, college, etc at age 35 instead of 25. We could definitely be richer if we moved to a less desirable area of the country.

[Anonymous]

We are 2 physicians (not surgeons but my husband does procedures) and income over 1mil. This income level is not uncommon for our dual physician family friends, but work-life balance be very stressful. We live in a small townhouse because it is perfect for us in this stage of life (young children) and will consider upgrading once they are older and require more privacy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Taken as a whole, physicians still have the highest salaries of any profession:

Median income for attorneys: $123K
Median income for software engineers: $108K
Median income for physicians: $208K

And of course, some specialists will earn far more than that.

You have to take into account opportunity cost. Residency is low pay at 50-60k for around 7 years after 4 years of medical school which is 60-100k a year depending on where. It’s better to be at engineer and make 100k throughout your 20s. Also, Physician Assistant is great - only 2 years no residency and make anywhere between 100-200 k

Agree with all of this. In the overall financial picture, physicians do not come out ahead. Not to mention your 20s are spent studying and working insane hours.

Well said. My DH has sacrificed his health and youth and I'm not sure the money when or if it comes is going to be worth it I've worked hard to keep us on track with our financial goals during his training, but the first 5 years of his attending salary are already allotted to catching up (down payment/no equity never owned, paying off student loans, retirement, 529, etc). This doesn't make us poor, but I don't think we're living the lifestyle that people imagine. Seeing medicine for what it is, if our children showed an interest I would encourage them to pursue PA or NP unless they want to be a surgeon.

Agree, people seem to forget that making a lot of money comes at a cost. DH makes 300K but works 50-60 hours or more every week, plus 12 weekends a year. He leaves early for 7 am meetings, is never home in time for dinner, and brings work home with him (notes to write, images to read). I feel like a single parent most of the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I have this one friend and she married a doctor. He is a hand surgeon. They live in a very small house in Boulder, so no way they are rich. So my question would be why so many people consider doctors rich?

Lol that you think the size of someone's house is an accurate measure of their wealth.

I don’t think anything that’s why I am asking

You literally said their house is small so they can’t be rich. That’s an odd and probably incorrect conclusion.

And that’s why I am here asking if my conclusions are incorrect.

I think your conclusion is incorrect.

I don't think my pediatrician is rich but my dermatologist sure is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I have this one friend and she married a doctor. He is a hand surgeon. They live in a very small house in Boulder, so no way they are rich. So my question would be why so many people consider doctors rich?

Lol that you think the size of someone's house is an accurate measure of their wealth.

I don’t think anything that’s why I am asking

You literally said their house is small so they can’t be rich. That’s an odd and probably incorrect conclusion.

And that’s why I am here asking if my conclusions are incorrect.

I think your conclusion is incorrect.

I don't think my pediatrician is rich but my dermatologist sure is.

There is a good chance your pediatrician is married to a surgeon or cardiologist. Many are and have high HHI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Taken as a whole, physicians still have the highest salaries of any profession:

Median income for attorneys: $123K
Median income for software engineers: $108K
Median income for physicians: $208K

And of course, some specialists will earn far more than that.

You have to take into account opportunity cost. Residency is low pay at 50-60k for around 7 years after 4 years of medical school which is 60-100k a year depending on where. It’s better to be at engineer and make 100k throughout your 20s. Also, Physician Assistant is great - only 2 years no residency and make anywhere between 100-200 k

Agree with all of this. In the overall financial picture, physicians do not come out ahead. Not to mention your 20s are spent studying and working insane hours.

Well said. My DH has sacrificed his health and youth and I'm not sure the money when or if it comes is going to be worth it I've worked hard to keep us on track with our financial goals during his training, but the first 5 years of his attending salary are already allotted to catching up (down payment/no equity never owned, paying off student loans, retirement, 529, etc). This doesn't make us poor, but I don't think we're living the lifestyle that people imagine. Seeing medicine for what it is, if our children showed an interest I would encourage them to pursue PA or NP unless they want to be a surgeon.

I forgot to add buying into a practice or sweat equity (reduced pay for several years) to this list.

[Anonymous]

My friend’s husband is a hand surgeon. The last I recall was an average salary of $500,000.

[Anonymous]

I had no idea Millennial doctors had to drive Hyundais.

[Anonymous]

I'm an attorney who has seen a lot of physician contracts. The more elite specialties - interventional cardiology, for e.g. - are over a million. So are many surgeons - e.g. ortho and eye - though income depends on the number of procedures and whether they are salaried for a hospital system or have an ownership interest in an ambulatory surgical center. I've seen surgeons who own their own ASCs make upwards of $7m.

In addition, many docs supplement their income with training, teaching, speaking etc. activities for drug and device companies. And surgeons can get involved in product development for device companies and get royalty streams. Bottom line is that doctors can still do very, very well if they are entrepreneurial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My friend is a cardiologist and I don’t know the salary but I can tell my friend is pretty well off.

500K at the lower end, 2 to 3 MM in Florida - NP here with FIL cardiologist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm an attorney who has seen a lot of physician contracts. The more elite specialties - interventional cardiology, for e.g. - are over a million. So are many surgeons - e.g. ortho and eye - though income depends on the number of procedures and whether they are salaried for a hospital system or have an ownership interest in an ambulatory surgical center. I've seen surgeons who own their own ASCs make upwards of $7m.

In addition, many docs supplement their income with training, teaching, speaking etc. activities for drug and device companies. And surgeons can get involved in product development for device companies and get royalty streams. Bottom line is that doctors can still do very, very well if they are entrepreneurial.

I 2nd this. A lot of young docs now do combined MD/MBA programs to also learn how to run a business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My husband worked in a private practice in Maryland, where there are limits on the amount of money doctors can get reimbursed by insurance companies for procedures. The old docs in the practice who started out under the old rules were rich, with huge houses, boats, vacation homes, etc. The young docs on the current salary were barely making ends meet in the DC area. We left, and now feel comfortable on the same salary in a lower COL area. But we are far from rich. Med school loans are costing about 3k per month for the forseeable future. Started saving for retirement, college, etc at age 35 instead of 25. We could definitely be richer if we moved to a less desirable area of the country.

We're paying our DC1's med school and I know it will make a huge difference. Medicine is becoming the choice for only high income families now.

[Anonymous]

Some are rich and some are not. Just like for lawyers, income levels vary immensely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband worked in a private practice in Maryland, where there are limits on the amount of money doctors can get reimbursed by insurance companies for procedures. The old docs in the practice who started out under the old rules were rich, with huge houses, boats, vacation homes, etc. The young docs on the current salary were barely making ends meet in the DC area. We left, and now feel comfortable on the same salary in a lower COL area. But we are far from rich. Med school loans are costing about 3k per month for the forseeable future. Started saving for retirement, college, etc at age 35 instead of 25. We could definitely be richer if we moved to a less desirable area of the country.

We're paying our DC1's med school and I know it will make a huge difference. Medicine is becoming the choice for only high income families now.

Yes, because it's a $400k degree unless you attend a state school. it's difficult to borrow $400k. My spouse is peripherally involved with admissions at Georgetown and almost all their students are wealthy. It's a concern to many that you have to come from
signigicant money to become a physician.