Suggestions for appropriate/effective consequences--11 yo girl bouts of rage

[Anonymous]

My DD is going through puberty at 11 and has shown a huge increase in flare-ups of belligerent behavior. Other times she is just fine, though overall she is definitely trying to demonstrate independence (e.g., does not want me to chat with her friends at school drop-off). She is often antagonized by my DS, 9, who is hyperactive, cheeky, and likes to get in her personal space.(I'm trying to keep that to a minimum, but it can't be 100% avoided)
I am accepting that part of her belligerent behavior is normal; friends with older teenage girls have advised "pick your battles". The following issues, though, to me should warrant consequences:
-Destructive fits, such as going into a parent's closet, pulling clothes off hangers and destroying items (cut my necklace, though it was a craft one that she'd made).
-biting, kicking, and punching
-Walking away without a word when I ask her to do a normal chore.


My attempts to address this have been unsuccessful. Example: I've talked calmly with her after things blow over, saying 'I understand you feel/want XYZ, but I want you to understand what are right and wrong'. However, she'll still refuse to clean up a mess she has created.

What might be some effective consequences? Demanding that she clean things up has not been effective--it just escalates things and leads to her going into her room, slamming her door, etc. She already has limited screen time and doesn't want to do sports, etc. (she likes to read, craft) She has occasional w/e playdates and I'm reluctant to take those away since I think she needs the social interaction.

Any suggestions for consequences you've tried that have been successful without making WW3 break out?

[Anonymous]

No electronics, no activities, no going out to eat, no crafts, restricted to her room, lock your room/cannot go in. No chores. Ok, if she cannot help the family then she needs to do her own laundry, pack lunch, etc. Slam door, lose door.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No electronics, no activities, no going out to eat, no crafts, restricted to her room, lock your room/cannot go in. No chores. Ok, if she cannot help the family then she needs to do her own laundry, pack lunch, etc. Slam door, lose door.

+1 but stop giving your son a free pass when he deliberately antagonizes her. He needs a punishment as well

[Anonymous]

She needs to own the destruction and the fixes for it.

Ask her how she plans to fix the messes she has made, and then help her do it (i.e., if she wants to pay you back for the clothes, help her figure out how to earn the money).

If she won't talk to you about it, she can write up a plan.

Consequences are that you don't facilitate anything other than school or activities that would feel her absence if you didn't get her there (like a crew team, or something -- I know you said she doesn't do sports, but that's just an example). At home, like a PP said, you don't do things for her beyond what you're doing for everyone else.

And you just keep reiterating in the nicest voice you can muster, things like, "I love you, but until we can work out these issues, I can't do anything else for you. This situation makes me sad and angry, and it's clear to me that it makes you sad and angry, too. Since you don't like my solutions, I'm willing to consider yours, but you have to come to me with some ideas and be willing to talk them through."

In the meantime, to the extent you can, ignore the outbursts and keep the kids separated.

I think you may hear that she feels she always comes in second to the 9-year-old, or is expected to put up with things she does because of her hyperactivity. Is there any chance the 9-year-old has destroyed some of her things the way she destroyed yours (even if it was junk in your opinion), and you told her to get over it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She needs to own the destruction and the fixes for it.

Ask her how she plans to fix the messes she has made, and then help her do it (i.e., if she wants to pay you back for the clothes, help her figure out how to earn the money).

If she won't talk to you about it, she can write up a plan.

Consequences are that you don't facilitate anything other than school or activities that would feel her absence if you didn't get her there (like a crew team, or something -- I know you said she doesn't do sports, but that's just an example). At home, like a PP said, you don't do things for her beyond what you're doing for everyone else.

And you just keep reiterating in the nicest voice you can muster, things like, "I love you, but until we can work out these issues, I can't do anything else for you. This situation makes me sad and angry, and it's clear to me that it makes you sad and angry, too. Since you don't like my solutions, I'm willing to consider yours, but you have to come to me with some ideas and be willing to talk them through."

In the meantime, to the extent you can, ignore the outbursts and keep the kids separated.

I think you may hear that she feels she always comes in second to the 9-year-old, or is expected to put up with things she does because of her hyperactivity. Is there any chance the 9-year-old has destroyed some of her things the way she destroyed yours (even if it was junk in your opinion), and you told her to get over it?

Sorry -- misread that the 9-year-old was also a girl. He's a boy. Same point, though.

[Anonymous]

On the proactive front, I'd work on making the home a calm, non-over stimulating environment. By that I mean remove the TV, tablet, game consoles, and smart phones. Lock them away. I know that sounds extreme but plenty of otherwise reasonable kids become destructive monsters when they have regular screen time. I'd remove them until she's 18. If she finds that upsetting, she can work on earning back 1 hr/day on weekends.

On the reactive front, she's not too old for time outs. She can be sent to her room until she's calm, ready to apologize, and re-hang up all your clothes. Only her needs, and none of her wants, should be tended to until she's cleaned up.

Biting and other violence is pretty extreme behavior for an 11 yo. If she can't explain why she's doing it, just focus on removing stimuli and folding in calming daily routines.

She sounds like she needs chores, sports, and consequences, and perhaps some one to talk to.

[Anonymous]

Some kids, you could take all their belongings, remove everything from their room except a mattress and a sheet, and feed them the most boring of meals, and that would not induce them to cooperate.

Does your kid have something you can leverage that she values? Or is she so angry that she values nothing? If she values nothing, I'd be afraid she might be one of those kids for whom penalties aren't going to work.

Can you remove opportunities for misbehavior? Supervise her. She shouldn't be able to get into your closet to destroy things. Don't let "I shouldn't have to supervise an 11 year old" get in your way. Maybe you shouldn't, but your child needs it. And the more you can prevent her from doing things she shouldn't be doing, the more you get to praise her for doing things she should be doing. How often do you catch her doing something good & praise her for it?

Is she not interested in anything athletic? It sounds like she needs an outlet. What about martial arts? Dance? Fencing? Hiking? Roller skating?

How is she with friends? How is she with friends parents? How is she in school?

Does she have a therapist or someone she can talk to?

[Anonymous]

Does she any sort of an outlet - a team sport with her friends, a fun hobby?

Can she have her own space and a door sign to tell her brother "I'm serious, dude, I need some quiet, bug off" and your DS needs to learn and respect that. Thats on you.

Give her space, autonomy, and visibly take her side. It's a tough age anyway, but having a younger brother antagonizing you can easily push anyone over the edge. Add being tired, especially after school, or hungry just makes it worse to contain emotions.

[Anonymous]

I would talk it over with a pediatrician, therapist, or other mental health person. It seems like she's having a very hard time with self-control.

Could it be that she is having panic attacks?

[Anonymous]

Maybe writing in a journal/diary will help.

[Anonymous]

What about positive reinforcement for days she has good behavior?

[Anonymous]

Does she have money yet?
Maybe after it calms down, and you are talking, you can say she has a choice of 1)cleaning up the mess or 2)paying you X dollars for your time to do it yourself.

[Anonymous]

There’s a lot of bad advice here that will just escalate her behind cause further stress and resentment. I strongly recommend you read “Yes, Your Teen is Crazy” by Dr. Michael Bradley. We are dealing with similar issues with our 11 y/o boy and the lessons in the book have made a dramatic difference.
Yes, Your Teen is Crazy!: Loving Your Kid Without Losing Your Mind https://www.amazon.com/dp/0936197447/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_cYC3AbF7MTVNA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would talk it over with a pediatrician, therapist, or other mental health person. It seems like she's having a very hard time with self-control.

Could it be that she is having panic attacks?

I second this. Some volatility, yelling, slamming or throwing things is pretty normal, but biting? I don’t know if discipline techniques are the answer. She’s 11, she knows very well never to bite, but she’s losing control so badly that it’s not mattering. Punishing for biting seems like something you do for a preschooler; at her age I’d look deeper.

[Anonymous]

Seek trained help to guide you. Put a lock on your bedroom door.