J.K. Rowling’s post on trans-identity and modern misogyny

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Personally, I still don’t quite see the article as “rape culture”. To me, it didn’t sound like the author was trying to force sex or coerce anyone. But that’s based on my own experiences and perspectives. Maybe the author is drawing only upon her own experiences and knowledge and wasn’t aware of conversion techniques, etc.?

It's definitely a male tendency to try to convince someone who says they're not interested that "oh yes, you actually ARE interested!", and not let up until they get what they want. I think it's happened to most women. There's a reason that the phrase "no means NO!" is drilled into women and "he wouldn't take no for an answer" is something we've grown accustomed to hearing. It's not okay.

Yup. If you feel the need to write a blog post about why someone should sleep with you, just... don’t.

Got it. How pervasive is this attitude?

And thoughts about “women who menstruate”? Sorry if that’s a repeat.

How pervasive is what attitude? That men keep pestering a woman and trying to get a date even when she says she's not interested? Many men do this, it's happened to me lots of times. I don't know a single woman who has done it.

Trans people keep pestering people to date them and shame lesbians who aren't interested?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Y'all really have to know that, to the younger generations, this is a non-issue. None of us have a problem including trans women as women, while at the same time advocating for women's rights.

You're on the wrong side of history.[/quot

I think most people are objecting to the word woman not extending to women who get pregnant. lactate, menstruate and alternative words being found b/c it took a very long time for the word woman to actually equate to persons with thoughts and feelings and people have an affection for that word and want to use it as an umbrella term for all people who choose it including women wo were born with the wrong body parts for themselves and women who are born with the matching body parts to their psyches.


We think that everyone should be able to use the word women and when women who don't mentruate or get pregnant or breast feed hear it or see it they should just go ok- that doesn't apply to me but it does apply to my fellow women instead of forcing their fellow women to find some other word to use. At least i think that is the belief of the majority. I don't see men who want to get pregnant or breast feed being all up in arms even though they are literally the only people this inclusive definition of women excludes b/c of course they are men who menstruate. I don't know- i think the whole gender binary is stupid though and obviously the gender binary being adhered to strictly is incredibly important to both trans men and women. to me female means hole, male means stick and there is no other difference that should be acknowledged at all. I guess that is he radical part of the feminism?? mean that doesn't solve teh issue for the sports people but i don't really care- there are so many intersex people who believe they are women and compete as such and it is gross that they are subjected tests b/c ppl can't believe they are female. intersex people should be able to choose to either exist as such or pick whatever they want and people ned o e more open to intersex people as well as people who have gender dysphoria.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Y'all really have to know that, to the younger generations, this is a non-issue. None of us have a problem including trans women as women, while at the same time advocating for women's rights.

You're on the wrong side of history.

I think most people are objecting to the word woman not extending to women who get pregnant. lactate, menstruate and alternative words being found b/c it took a very long time for the word woman to actually equate to persons with thoughts and feelings and people have an affection for that word and want to use it as an umbrella term for all people who choose it including women wo were born with the wrong body parts for themselves and women who are born with the matching body parts to their psyches.


We think that everyone should be able to use the word women and when women who don't mentruate or get pregnant or breast feed hear it or see it they should just go ok- that doesn't apply to me but it does apply to my fellow women instead of forcing their fellow women to find some other word to use. At least i think that is the belief of the majority. I don't see men who want to get pregnant or breast feed being all up in arms even though they are literally the only people this inclusive definition of women excludes b/c of course they are men who menstruate. I don't know- i think the whole gender binary is stupid though and obviously the gender binary being adhered to strictly is incredibly important to both trans men and women. to me female means hole, male means stick and there is no other difference that should be acknowledged at all. I guess that is he radical part of the feminism?? mean that doesn't solve teh issue for the sports people but i don't really care- there are so many intersex people who believe they are women and compete as such and it is gross that they are subjected tests b/c ppl can't believe they are female. intersex people should be able to choose to either exist as such or pick whatever they want and people ned o e more open to intersex people as well as people who have gender dysphoria.

I’m going to be up front here and acknowledge that I found this really hard to follow and may have misunderstood you but re the bolded...

That interpretation is not radical feminism, it is denying the biological differences that hold us back, not naming them and consequently not being able to address them as specific causes for the subjugation if women. The female reproductive system and what it requires of us to use and to not use to manage it has been the care of extreme oppression and violence across the world and here in this country. This perspective if skin to ‘I don’t see color’ when talking about race issues. You need to see color do you can talk about how it harms specific populations. You need to see gender for the same reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Y'all really have to know that, to the younger generations, this is a non-issue. None of us have a problem including trans women as women, while at the same time advocating for women's rights.

You're on the wrong side of history.[/quot

I think most people are objecting to the word woman not extending to women who get pregnant. lactate, menstruate and alternative words being found b/c it took a very long time for the word woman to actually equate to persons with thoughts and feelings and people have an affection for that word and want to use it as an umbrella term for all people who choose it including women wo were born with the wrong body parts for themselves and women who are born with the matching body parts to their psyches.


We think that everyone should be able to use the word women and when women who don't mentruate or get pregnant or breast feed hear it or see it they should just go ok- that doesn't apply to me but it does apply to my fellow women instead of forcing their fellow women to find some other word to use. At least i think that is the belief of the majority. I don't see men who want to get pregnant or breast feed being all up in arms even though they are literally the only people this inclusive definition of women excludes b/c of course they are men who menstruate. I don't know- i think the whole gender binary is stupid though and obviously the gender binary being adhered to strictly is incredibly important to both trans men and women. to me female means hole, male means stick and there is no other difference that should be acknowledged at all. I guess that is he radical part of the feminism?? mean that doesn't solve teh issue for the sports people but i don't really care- there are so many intersex people who believe they are women and compete as such and it is gross that they are subjected tests b/c ppl can't believe they are female. intersex people should be able to choose to either exist as such or pick whatever they want and people ned o e more open to intersex people as well as people who have gender dysphoria.

You are a special kind of stupid.

[Anonymous]

It's interesting that the trans activists on this thread have no real response to the rape culture article and the honest and thoughtful responses to it. I assume it's because they see no issues with rape culture, at heart.

[Anonymous]

This is the political context of her piece, and the latest news on it:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eaa_nzxXkAAG2xd.jpg

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump is passing laws limiting trans rights, and men saw murdering trans women, yet trans “activists” only care about TERFs. If you needed more proof that this was about making women sit down and shut up rather than actually supporting trans women, here it is.

Where is the woman of the year on this issue, Jenner? Silent and all the Kardashians!!!!

I think that Jenner's previous quote says plenty. It says that trans women are not the same as women and just don't have the same concerns or difficulties.

Personally, I find it kind of gross that Jenner benefited so much in terms of fame and fortune from men's sports. It's no secret that women's sports don't carry the same benefits and glory. No word on that from Jenner though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump is passing laws limiting trans rights, and men saw murdering trans women, yet trans “activists” only care about TERFs. If you needed more proof that this was about making women sit down and shut up rather than actually supporting trans women, here it is.

Where is the woman of the year on this issue, Jenner? Silent and all the Kardashians!!!!

I think that Jenner's previous quote says plenty. It says that trans women are not the same as women and just don't have the same concerns or difficulties.

Personally, I find it kind of gross that Jenner benefited so much in terms of fame and fortune from men's sports. It's no secret that women's sports don't carry the same benefits and glory. No word on that from Jenner though.

Exactly. No woman I know would ever say what Jenner said, because women constantly struggle to be taken seriously. Jenner's version of womanhood IS focused on appearance though. It is an offensively shallow reduction of womanhood as interpreted by the male gaze.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump is passing laws limiting trans rights, and men saw murdering trans women, yet trans “activists” only care about TERFs. If you needed more proof that this was about making women sit down and shut up rather than actually supporting trans women, here it is.

Where is the woman of the year on this issue, Jenner? Silent and all the Kardashians!!!!

I think that Jenner's previous quote says plenty. It says that trans women are not the same as women and just don't have the same concerns or difficulties.

Personally, I find it kind of gross that Jenner benefited so much in terms of fame and fortune from men's sports. It's no secret that women's sports don't carry the same benefits and glory. No word on that from Jenner though.

Exactly. No woman I know would ever say what Jenner said, because women constantly struggle to be taken seriously. Jenner's version of womanhood IS focused on appearance though. It is an offensively shallow reduction of womanhood as interpreted by the male gaze.

Do trans women even look to Jenner as a role model? I thought she caused a lot of pain for people with her comments.

I support JK because of my experiences. The poster keeps saying young people have no problem with this and insults older women who feel differently. I don't agree that all young people agree with this. I don't think they are giving it the thought older women, who have been through some shite, have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump is passing laws limiting trans rights, and men saw murdering trans women, yet trans “activists” only care about TERFs. If you needed more proof that this was about making women sit down and shut up rather than actually supporting trans women, here it is.

Where is the woman of the year on this issue, Jenner? Silent and all the Kardashians!!!!

I think that Jenner's previous quote says plenty. It says that trans women are not the same as women and just don't have the same concerns or difficulties.

Personally, I find it kind of gross that Jenner benefited so much in terms of fame and fortune from men's sports. It's no secret that women's sports don't carry the same benefits and glory. No word on that from Jenner though.

Exactly. No woman I know would ever say what Jenner said, because women constantly struggle to be taken seriously. Jenner's version of womanhood IS focused on appearance though. It is an offensively shallow reduction of womanhood as interpreted by the male gaze.

Do trans women even look to Jenner as a role model? I thought she caused a lot of pain for people with her comments.

I support JK because of my experiences. The poster keeps saying young people have no problem with this and insults older women who feel differently. I don't agree that all young people agree with this. I don't think they are giving it the thought older women, who have been through some shite, have.

Yep. Like to PP several pages back who basically said, "I was completely supportive of men in the women's toilets and thought everyone else was being transphobic and a bunch of horrible stuff until I had to live with the consequences of my actions... I realized how dirty men are in the toilet! Our bathrooms are filthy now! We can't even use them! Gross! We don't want men in our bathrooms!"

Unfortunately there's no way to stop people who have no idea what they're talking about and no idea what they're actually asking for from expressing their opinions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump is passing laws limiting trans rights, and men saw murdering trans women, yet trans “activists” only care about TERFs. If you needed more proof that this was about making women sit down and shut up rather than actually supporting trans women, here it is.

Where is the woman of the year on this issue, Jenner? Silent and all the Kardashians!!!!

I think that Jenner's previous quote says plenty. It says that trans women are not the same as women and just don't have the same concerns or difficulties.

Personally, I find it kind of gross that Jenner benefited so much in terms of fame and fortune from men's sports. It's no secret that women's sports don't carry the same benefits and glory. No word on that from Jenner though.

Exactly. No woman I know would ever say what Jenner said, because women constantly struggle to be taken seriously. Jenner's version of womanhood IS focused on appearance though. It is an offensively shallow reduction of womanhood as interpreted by the male gaze.

Do trans women even look to Jenner as a role model? I thought she caused a lot of pain for people with her comments.

I support JK because of my experiences. The poster keeps saying young people have no problem with this and insults older women who feel differently. I don't agree that all young people agree with this. I don't think they are giving it the thought older women, who have been through some shite, have.

Yep. Like to PP several pages back who basically said, "I was completely supportive of men in the women's toilets and thought everyone else was being transphobic and a bunch of horrible stuff until I had to live with the consequences of my actions... I realized how dirty men are in the toilet! Our bathrooms are filthy now! We can't even use them! Gross! We don't want men in our bathrooms!"

Unfortunately there's no way to stop people who have no idea what they're talking about and no idea what they're actually asking for from expressing their opinions.

Say what? Say that again!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump is passing laws limiting trans rights, and men saw murdering trans women, yet trans “activists” only care about TERFs. If you needed more proof that this was about making women sit down and shut up rather than actually supporting trans women, here it is.

Where is the woman of the year on this issue, Jenner? Silent and all the Kardashians!!!!

I think that Jenner's previous quote says plenty. It says that trans women are not the same as women and just don't have the same concerns or difficulties.

Personally, I find it kind of gross that Jenner benefited so much in terms of fame and fortune from men's sports. It's no secret that women's sports don't carry the same benefits and glory. No word on that from Jenner though.

Exactly. No woman I know would ever say what Jenner said, because women constantly struggle to be taken seriously. Jenner's version of womanhood IS focused on appearance though. It is an offensively shallow reduction of womanhood as interpreted by the male gaze.

Do trans women even look to Jenner as a role model? I thought she caused a lot of pain for people with her comments.

I support JK because of my experiences. The poster keeps saying young people have no problem with this and insults older women who feel differently. I don't agree that all young people agree with this. I don't think they are giving it the thought older women, who have been through some shite, have.

Yep. Like to PP several pages back who basically said, "I was completely supportive of men in the women's toilets and thought everyone else was being transphobic and a bunch of horrible stuff until I had to live with the consequences of my actions... I realized how dirty men are in the toilet! Our bathrooms are filthy now! We can't even use them! Gross! We don't want men in our bathrooms!"

Unfortunately there's no way to stop people who have no idea what they're talking about and no idea what they're actually asking for from expressing their opinions.

You would know!

I think you misread the bathroom pp. She was fine with transwomen in her bathroom; she wasn’t fine with the bathrooms becoming totally coed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why the term trans activist would offend you. It is what you’re doing and it’s great there should be trans activists. I know you would disagree but I think of myself as one. Someone above said I’m like a closet trump supporter which is like, literally hilarious in its absurdity.

If you think that I, a person who believes deeply in supporting trans people’s ability to lead whatever longer they wish, call themselves whatever gender they want, use whatever pronouns they want, be able to marry freely and be protected from discrimination. If you think all of that counts for nothing and the fact that my concerns about language diluting women’s advocacy erase all that and turn me into a trump supporter bigot than you really need to examine why you require 1000% agreement too be satisfied. The country will never ever move forward and grow under those types of purity tests

^^This is another great post, PP.

The all-or-nothing cancel culture is exactly why we’re in the political position we are now.

PP, please don’t ever stop expressing your views on this. You are eloquently speaking for many of us.

[New Poster, following along]

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump is passing laws limiting trans rights, and men saw murdering trans women, yet trans “activists” only care about TERFs. If you needed more proof that this was about making women sit down and shut up rather than actually supporting trans women, here it is.

Where is the woman of the year on this issue, Jenner? Silent and all the Kardashians!!!!

I think that Jenner's previous quote says plenty. It says that trans women are not the same as women and just don't have the same concerns or difficulties.

Personally, I find it kind of gross that Jenner benefited so much in terms of fame and fortune from men's sports. It's no secret that women's sports don't carry the same benefits and glory. No word on that from Jenner though.

Exactly. No woman I know would ever say what Jenner said, because women constantly struggle to be taken seriously. Jenner's version of womanhood IS focused on appearance though. It is an offensively shallow reduction of womanhood as interpreted by the male gaze.

Do trans women even look to Jenner as a role model? I thought she caused a lot of pain for people with her comments.

I support JK because of my experiences. The poster keeps saying young people have no problem with this and insults older women who feel differently. I don't agree that all young people agree with this. I don't think they are giving it the thought older women, who have been through some shite, have.

Yep. Like to PP several pages back who basically said, "I was completely supportive of men in the women's toilets and thought everyone else was being transphobic and a bunch of horrible stuff until I had to live with the consequences of my actions... I realized how dirty men are in the toilet! Our bathrooms are filthy now! We can't even use them! Gross! We don't want men in our bathrooms!"

Unfortunately there's no way to stop people who have no idea what they're talking about and no idea what they're actually asking for from expressing their opinions.

This applies to you much more strongly than any of JKRs supporters on this thread and you should take your.own advice. It's pathetic that here you decided to highlight a cosmetic issue of bathrooms rather than the posts by the sexual assault survivors, older women who have faced discrimination, and the lesbians talking about spaces for lesbians. If you want to be taken seriously, give a thoughtful answer to those issues. Address rape culture and how biological men coming into biological women's spaces bring with them a history of rape culture. Address the thoughtful posts of the lesbians who have posted. Talk about the entitled and awful article that was posted. Talk about the shallow male gaze of women that trans advocates like Jenner espouse.

But as you steadfastly refuse to engage in any serious discussion, until you can, you need to just sit this out. Frankly I don't believe you have the intellectual depth for a real discussion, but we will see.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump is passing laws limiting trans rights, and men saw murdering trans women, yet trans “activists” only care about TERFs. If you needed more proof that this was about making women sit down and shut up rather than actually supporting trans women, here it is.

Where is the woman of the year on this issue, Jenner? Silent and all the Kardashians!!!!

I think that Jenner's previous quote says plenty. It says that trans women are not the same as women and just don't have the same concerns or difficulties.

Personally, I find it kind of gross that Jenner benefited so much in terms of fame and fortune from men's sports. It's no secret that women's sports don't carry the same benefits and glory. No word on that from Jenner though.

Exactly. No woman I know would ever say what Jenner said, because women constantly struggle to be taken seriously. Jenner's version of womanhood IS focused on appearance though. It is an offensively shallow reduction of womanhood as interpreted by the male gaze.

Do trans women even look to Jenner as a role model? I thought she caused a lot of pain for people with her comments.

I support JK because of my experiences. The poster keeps saying young people have no problem with this and insults older women who feel differently. I don't agree that all young people agree with this. I don't think they are giving it the thought older women, who have been through some shite, have.

Yep. Like to PP several pages back who basically said, "I was completely supportive of men in the women's toilets and thought everyone else was being transphobic and a bunch of horrible stuff until I had to live with the consequences of my actions... I realized how dirty men are in the toilet! Our bathrooms are filthy now! We can't even use them! Gross! We don't want men in our bathrooms!"

Unfortunately there's no way to stop people who have no idea what they're talking about and no idea what they're actually asking for from expressing their opinions.

This applies to you much more strongly than any of JKRs supporters on this thread and you should take your.own advice. It's pathetic that here you decided to highlight a cosmetic issue of bathrooms rather than the posts by the sexual assault survivors, older women who have faced discrimination, and the lesbians talking about spaces for lesbians. If you want to be taken seriously, give a thoughtful answer to those issues. Address rape culture and how biological men coming into biological women's spaces bring with them a history of rape culture. Address the thoughtful posts of the lesbians who have posted. Talk about the entitled and awful article that was posted. Talk about the shallow male gaze of women that trans advocates like Jenner espouse.

But as you steadfastly refuse to engage in any serious discussion, until you can, you need to just sit this out. Frankly I don't believe you have the intellectual depth for a real discussion, but we will see.

DP. Circular firing squad...