J.K. Rowling’s post on trans-identity and modern misogyny

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Personally, I still don’t quite see the article as “rape culture”. To me, it didn’t sound like the author was trying to force sex or coerce anyone. But that’s based on my own experiences and perspectives. Maybe the author is drawing only upon her own experiences and knowledge and wasn’t aware of conversion techniques, etc.?

It's definitely a male tendency to try to convince someone who says they're not interested that "oh yes, you actually ARE interested!", and not let up until they get what they want. I think it's happened to most women. There's a reason that the phrase "no means NO!" is drilled into women and "he wouldn't take no for an answer" is something we've grown accustomed to hearing. It's not okay.

Yup. If you feel the need to write a blog post about why someone should sleep with you, just... don’t.

Got it. How pervasive is this attitude?

And thoughts about “women who menstruate”? Sorry if that’s a repeat.

How pervasive is what attitude? That men keep pestering a woman and trying to get a date even when she says she's not interested? Many men do this, it's happened to me lots of times. I don't know a single woman who has done it.

[Anonymous]

I’ve been thinking a lot about this thread the last few days. And a lot About the Caitlyn Jenner quote. Not to pile on on her but frankly I feel like it actually does get to the heart of the issue in a way I was skeptical about before.

I do not know what it feels like to feel like a woman. I am a woman and nothing feels wrong, and I actually literally can’t comprehend how I could possibly not feel like a woman. So clearly I am not transgendered. But I have a lifetime of experiences that shape how I view women and feminist politics. They come from having a period, from having a period, from being sexually harassed, from having a baby, from having a critically dangerous pregnancy, from having subpar experiences with doctors, from being called bossy. These things have shaped me. And while every biological woman navigate these hurdles differently, they do navigate them, and it is those shared experiences that many of us use to bond together. It’s the reason women in an office building pass along l the names of serial abusers, the reason that post partum depression was something historically whispered about more by women than doctors. It’s women healing each other through pregnancies, through relationships etc.

And most of us learned this because of how we were treated as we grew up.

A trans woman, even a trans woman who transitions at a younger age will have had an entirely different set of experiences. And the trans movement has entered and begun to try to define what being a woman means because they have felt and feel so strongly that they are a woman. And I assume with that surety comes a belief that they therefore have that core “what are women about” things down. But the fact that they want to think about menstruations as something that should be defined as gender nonspecific is, IMO, proof that they do not have it down as much as they think.

I’m not in their head, I can’t hear their heart, but I think this is why you don’t have trans men saying this with the Same vehemence. Trans men also understand how formative and female those experiences are. I trust trans women to know their own minds and hearts. It feels like trans women do not trust biological women to know their own minds and hearts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Personally, I still don’t quite see the article as “rape culture”. To me, it didn’t sound like the author was trying to force sex or coerce anyone. But that’s based on my own experiences and perspectives. Maybe the author is drawing only upon her own experiences and knowledge and wasn’t aware of conversion techniques, etc.?

It's definitely a male tendency to try to convince someone who says they're not interested that "oh yes, you actually ARE interested!", and not let up until they get what they want. I think it's happened to most women. There's a reason that the phrase "no means NO!" is drilled into women and "he wouldn't take no for an answer" is something we've grown accustomed to hearing. It's not okay.

Yup. If you feel the need to write a blog post about why someone should sleep with you, just... don’t.

Got it. How pervasive is this attitude?

And thoughts about “women who menstruate”? Sorry if that’s a repeat.

How pervasive is what attitude? That men keep pestering a woman and trying to get a date even when she says she's not interested? Many men do this, it's happened to me lots of times. I don't know a single woman who has done it.

I think she’s asking how pervasive is The idea that trans women try to force try lesbians to date them. And how pervasive the movement to say v’ people who menstruate’ is.

Ie, are these common positions or fringe positions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Personally, I still don’t quite see the article as “rape culture”. To me, it didn’t sound like the author was trying to force sex or coerce anyone. But that’s based on my own experiences and perspectives. Maybe the author is drawing only upon her own experiences and knowledge and wasn’t aware of conversion techniques, etc.?

It's definitely a male tendency to try to convince someone who says they're not interested that "oh yes, you actually ARE interested!", and not let up until they get what they want. I think it's happened to most women. There's a reason that the phrase "no means NO!" is drilled into women and "he wouldn't take no for an answer" is something we've grown accustomed to hearing. It's not okay.

Yup. If you feel the need to write a blog post about why someone should sleep with you, just... don’t.

Got it. How pervasive is this attitude?

And thoughts about “women who menstruate”? Sorry if that’s a repeat.

I'd say "48 pages pervasive, and counting."

DP, but I think "women who menstruate" is fine but unnecessarily wordy. Nobody seriously thinks that talking about women as a group with menstrual issues is cruelly excluding women who don't menstruate. Nobody except trans folk, that is. I'll be menopausal someday and I promise I won't feel marginalized or offended if women are referred to as menstruating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Personally, I still don’t quite see the article as “rape culture”. To me, it didn’t sound like the author was trying to force sex or coerce anyone. But that’s based on my own experiences and perspectives. Maybe the author is drawing only upon her own experiences and knowledge and wasn’t aware of conversion techniques, etc.?

It's definitely a male tendency to try to convince someone who says they're not interested that "oh yes, you actually ARE interested!", and not let up until they get what they want. I think it's happened to most women. There's a reason that the phrase "no means NO!" is drilled into women and "he wouldn't take no for an answer" is something we've grown accustomed to hearing. It's not okay.

Yup. If you feel the need to write a blog post about why someone should sleep with you, just... don’t.

Got it. How pervasive is this attitude?

And thoughts about “women who menstruate”? Sorry if that’s a repeat.

How pervasive is what attitude? That men keep pestering a woman and trying to get a date even when she says she's not interested? Many men do this, it's happened to me lots of times. I don't know a single woman who has done it.

I think she’s asking how pervasive is The idea that trans women try to force try lesbians to date them. And how pervasive the movement to say v’ people who menstruate’ is.

Ie, are these common positions or fringe positions

It's impossible to know, because like most forms of intimidation and harassment suffered by women, it's not discussed publicly by women other than whispered between themselves. Talking publicly about these experiences publicly means risking exclusion, blame, death threats, and shaming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone on here who thinks adolescents shouldn’t be allowed to alter their bodies should talk to the Kardashians and all of the Hollywood types who think a good boob job or butt injections are a good thing for a kid under the age of 18!

Why should we, they seem quite happy to mutilate themselves, as a woman I certainly don't support this! Must have been very weird for Jenner to live in that house, I would like to suggest all of them get therapy but who am I to say what they should do with their lives. OK back to the topic at hand...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Trump is passing laws limiting trans rights, and men saw murdering trans women, yet trans “activists” only care about TERFs. If you needed more proof that this was about making women sit down and shut up rather than actually supporting trans women, here it is.

Where is the woman of the year on this issue, Jenner? Silent and all the Kardashians!!!!

[Anonymous]

"Man on the Land" been looking for this episode for the longest, now found it. Different takes on what this episode means but it is when Mappa is rejected from the women festival.

(recap:https://www.afterellen.com/tv/471863-transparent-recap-2-9-man-land)

‘Transparent’ Boldly Called Out A Complicated Feminist Issue :The conversations are multifarious and heavy, each person’s opinions and positions given their platform. In a recent interview with Slate, series and episode writer Ali Liebegott says:
“The question of the episode is what happens when Maura wants that safe space, too…we were trying to show the complexities of the conversations. I hope that came across.”
And it more than did. It reaches its height when the women discuss being raped, and Maura says, “I didn’t rape you.” Ali makes a joke: “It’s true, she stopped raping a long time ago.” So, if the question of the episode asks: What happens to Maura here, the answer steeps to a deafening ring in this circle of women.
What can this scene teach us about the transgender community and its allies? Now, the women in this circle are peeved. “This is where it gets weird, suddenly the conversation is all around you,” says Sandy (Sandy Martin), perching up with her beer. Maura’s defensive, saying she couldn’t experience male privilege because she was in such pain. Leslie offers that Maura’s pain and privilege are separate. Ali explains she was still reaping the benefits a man’s life—receiving a man’s paycheck, and so on. This rattles Maura. Is it because Ali took a turn to talk? How can she possible continue to sit here when she knows the women feel she’s unworthy of this space?

explains episode the other links are various writer's opinions, Transparent is on Amazon Prime: https://www.afterellen.com/tv/471863-transparent-recap-2-9-man-land

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2015/dec/19/transparent-recap-season-two-episode-nine-man-on-the-land

https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/12/writer-ali-liebegott-on-transparents-womens-festival-episode.html

http://www.mtv.com/news/2686142/transparent-man-on-the-land-exclusion/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Man on the Land" been looking for this episode for the longest, now found it. Different takes on what this episode means but it is when Mappa is rejected from the women festival.

(recap:https://www.afterellen.com/tv/471863-transparent-recap-2-9-man-land)

‘Transparent’ Boldly Called Out A Complicated Feminist Issue :The conversations are multifarious and heavy, each person’s opinions and positions given their platform. In a recent interview with Slate, series and episode writer Ali Liebegott says:
“The question of the episode is what happens when Maura wants that safe space, too…we were trying to show the complexities of the conversations. I hope that came across.”
And it more than did. It reaches its height when the women discuss being raped, and Maura says, “I didn’t rape you.” Ali makes a joke: “It’s true, she stopped raping a long time ago.” So, if the question of the episode asks: What happens to Maura here, the answer steeps to a deafening ring in this circle of women.
What can this scene teach us about the transgender community and its allies? Now, the women in this circle are peeved. “This is where it gets weird, suddenly the conversation is all around you,” says Sandy (Sandy Martin), perching up with her beer. Maura’s defensive, saying she couldn’t experience male privilege because she was in such pain. Leslie offers that Maura’s pain and privilege are separate. Ali explains she was still reaping the benefits a man’s life—receiving a man’s paycheck, and so on. This rattles Maura. Is it because Ali took a turn to talk? How can she possible continue to sit here when she knows the women feel she’s unworthy of this space?

explains episode the other links are various writer's opinions, Transparent is on Amazon Prime: https://www.afterellen.com/tv/471863-transparent-recap-2-9-man-land

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2015/dec/19/transparent-recap-season-two-episode-nine-man-on-the-land

https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/12/writer-ali-liebegott-on-transparents-womens-festival-episode.html

http://www.mtv.com/news/2686142/transparent-man-on-the-land-exclusion/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve been thinking a lot about this thread the last few days. And a lot About the Caitlyn Jenner quote. Not to pile on on her but frankly I feel like it actually does get to the heart of the issue in a way I was skeptical about before.

I do not know what it feels like to feel like a woman. I am a woman and nothing feels wrong, and I actually literally can’t comprehend how I could possibly not feel like a woman. So clearly I am not transgendered. But I have a lifetime of experiences that shape how I view women and feminist politics. They come from having a period, from having a period, from being sexually harassed, from having a baby, from having a critically dangerous pregnancy, from having subpar experiences with doctors, from being called bossy. These things have shaped me. And while every biological woman navigate these hurdles differently, they do navigate them, and it is those shared experiences that many of us use to bond together. It’s the reason women in an office building pass along l the names of serial abusers, the reason that post partum depression was something historically whispered about more by women than doctors. It’s women healing each other through pregnancies, through relationships etc.

And most of us learned this because of how we were treated as we grew up.

A trans woman, even a trans woman who transitions at a younger age will have had an entirely different set of experiences. And the trans movement has entered and begun to try to define what being a woman means because they have felt and feel so strongly that they are a woman. And I assume with that surety comes a belief that they therefore have that core “what are women about” things down. But the fact that they want to think about menstruations as something that should be defined as gender nonspecific is, IMO, proof that they do not have it down as much as they think.

I’m not in their head, I can’t hear their heart, but I think this is why you don’t have trans men saying this with the Same vehemence. Trans men also understand how formative and female those experiences are. I trust trans women to know their own minds and hearts. It feels like trans women do not trust biological women to know their own minds and hearts.

This sums up my opinion much more eloquently than I could write. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

An analogy for this is my husband is a black immigrant who moved to the US for college. He would never claim to understand what it’s like to grow up in a racist society and all the damage that can do in your youth, because he didn’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:An analogy for this is my husband is a black immigrant who moved to the US for college. He would never claim to understand what it’s like to grow up in a racist society and all the damage that can do in your youth, because he didn’t.

You mean to grow up in America right, he would understand what it means to grow up in a racist society even if his experience was different?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Man on the Land" been looking for this episode for the longest, now found it. Different takes on what this episode means but it is when Mappa is rejected from the women festival.

(recap:https://www.afterellen.com/tv/471863-transparent-recap-2-9-man-land)

‘Transparent’ Boldly Called Out A Complicated Feminist Issue :The conversations are multifarious and heavy, each person’s opinions and positions given their platform. In a recent interview with Slate, series and episode writer Ali Liebegott says:
“The question of the episode is what happens when Maura wants that safe space, too…we were trying to show the complexities of the conversations. I hope that came across.”
And it more than did. It reaches its height when the women discuss being raped, and Maura says, “I didn’t rape you.” Ali makes a joke: “It’s true, she stopped raping a long time ago.” So, if the question of the episode asks: What happens to Maura here, the answer steeps to a deafening ring in this circle of women.
What can this scene teach us about the transgender community and its allies? Now, the women in this circle are peeved. “This is where it gets weird, suddenly the conversation is all around you,” says Sandy (Sandy Martin), perching up with her beer. Maura’s defensive, saying she couldn’t experience male privilege because she was in such pain. Leslie offers that Maura’s pain and privilege are separate. Ali explains she was still reaping the benefits a man’s life—receiving a man’s paycheck, and so on. This rattles Maura. Is it because Ali took a turn to talk? How can she possible continue to sit here when she knows the women feel she’s unworthy of this space?

explains episode the other links are various writer's opinions, Transparent is on Amazon Prime: https://www.afterellen.com/tv/471863-transparent-recap-2-9-man-land

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2015/dec/19/transparent-recap-season-two-episode-nine-man-on-the-land

https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/12/writer-ali-liebegott-on-transparents-womens-festival-episode.html

http://www.mtv.com/news/2686142/transparent-man-on-the-land-exclusion/

If you liked the show, this episode 9 is well worth a watch!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An analogy for this is my husband is a black immigrant who moved to the US for college. He would never claim to understand what it’s like to grow up in a racist society and all the damage that can do in your youth, because he didn’t.

You mean to grow up in America right, he would understand what it means to grow up in a racist society even if his experience was different?

Obviously that is what she means pp...but let’s try it to debate systemic racism here...we already can’t agree on systemic misogyny

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An analogy for this is my husband is a black immigrant who moved to the US for college. He would never claim to understand what it’s like to grow up in a racist society and all the damage that can do in your youth, because he didn’t.

You mean to grow up in America right, he would understand what it means to grow up in a racist society even if his experience was different?

Obviously that is what she means pp...but let’s try it to debate systemic racism here...we already can’t agree on systemic misogyny

Not trying, just clarifying! Agree!