Confederate Battle Flag

[jsteele]

Here is what greeted Obama today in Oklahoma. Oklahoma wasn't even a state during the Civil War so exactly what "heritage" is being celebrated by these folks? Can anyone think of a reason for a bunch of white people to wave the Confederate Battle flag in front of a black president? I stumped myself:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Banning a flag does not change the hearts and minds of those who use it as a symbol of racism. It does, however, curtail free speech, and barking down that path is a dangerous endeavor.

It takes a very simple mind to think banning symbols is equivalent to change.

No one banned the flag. Don't worry, you don't have to throw out your Stars and Bars poncho.

They just don't think the state government should be endorsing it by flying it on the capitol grounds.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:Here is what greeted Obama today in Oklahoma. Oklahoma wasn't even a state during the Civil War so exactly what "heritage" is being celebrated by these folks? Can anyone think of a reason for a bunch of white people to wave the Confederate Battle flag in front of a black president? I stumped myself:

+1000

I've asked several times for them to explain what *exactly* they mean when they mumble about "heritage" and how the flag is supposed to represent or symbolize good - and thus far not one single poster has been able to coherently articulate any specifics of "heritage" uniquely associated with the Confederate flag that either wasn't something bad (slavery, tearing the nation apart, segregation, Jim Crow, lynchings, KKK, skinheads, anti-Civil rights, racism) or something fictionalized (Dukes of Hazzard on TV).

They can't even explain it, themselves. That demonstrates an inability to think rationally or critically.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:Here is what greeted Obama today in Oklahoma. Oklahoma wasn't even a state during the Civil War so exactly what "heritage" is being celebrated by these folks? Can anyone think of a reason for a bunch of white people to wave the Confederate Battle flag in front of a black president? I stumped myself:

Did you know that the organizer of that little protest group...and it was a LITTLE group...is a black man?

"According to local news organizations, a man named Andrew Duncomb, who calls himself the “black rebel,” organized the Confederate flag demonstration."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Here is what greeted Obama today in Oklahoma. Oklahoma wasn't even a state during the Civil War so exactly what "heritage" is being celebrated by these folks? Can anyone think of a reason for a bunch of white people to wave the Confederate Battle flag in front of a black president? I stumped myself:

Did you know that the organizer of that little protest group...and it was a LITTLE group...is a black man?

"According to local news organizations, a man named Andrew Duncomb, who calls himself the “black rebel,” organized the Confederate flag demonstration."

Sooooooo, you think that makes it somehow better? Black people are not all the same, you know, and they don't all claim to speak for or represent all black people.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Here is what greeted Obama today in Oklahoma. Oklahoma wasn't even a state during the Civil War so exactly what "heritage" is being celebrated by these folks? Can anyone think of a reason for a bunch of white people to wave the Confederate Battle flag in front of a black president? I stumped myself:

Did you know that the organizer of that little protest group...and it was a LITTLE group...is a black man?

"According to local news organizations, a man named Andrew Duncomb, who calls himself the “black rebel,” organized the Confederate flag demonstration."

I didn't know that, but looking at the pictures I don't see a lot of black people waving the flags. If Andrew misses the days when people who looked like him were property, who am I to argue with him? He can engage in all whatever fetishes he chooses as long as it is with consenting adults.

[Anonymous]

There were black people who voted for david duke. That doesn't mean he's not a Klansman.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Here is what greeted Obama today in Oklahoma. Oklahoma wasn't even a state during the Civil War so exactly what "heritage" is being celebrated by these folks? Can anyone think of a reason for a bunch of white people to wave the Confederate Battle flag in front of a black president? I stumped myself:

Did you know that the organizer of that little protest group...and it was a LITTLE group...is a black man?

"According to local news organizations, a man named Andrew Duncomb, who calls himself the “black rebel,” organized the Confederate flag demonstration."

I didn't know that, but looking at the pictures I don't see a lot of black people waving the flags. If Andrew misses the days when people who looked like him were property, who am I to argue with him? He can engage in all whatever fetishes he chooses as long as it is with consenting adults.

I think Andrew Duncomb makes a good point:

“They’re blaming the racist problems on the flag and not on the real problems of America. Through the race lies the people who carry and harbor the hate inside,” Duncomb says.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
I think Andrew Duncomb makes a good point:

“They’re blaming the racist problems on the flag and not on the real problems of America. Through the race lies the people who carry and harbor the hate inside,” Duncomb says.

I actually don't understand what "Through the race lies the people who carry and harbor the hate inside" means. But, can you please explain, as succinctly as possible, what message people in Oklahoma would be trying to send to Obama by waving a Confederate Battle Flag?

[Anonymous]

^ One confused black man doesn't change the fact that most of the people carrying the flag are racist.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think Andrew Duncomb makes a good point:

“They’re blaming the racist problems on the flag and not on the real problems of America. Through the race lies the people who carry and harbor the hate inside,” Duncomb says.

I actually don't understand what "Through the race lies the people who carry and harbor the hate inside" means. But, can you please explain, as succinctly as possible, what message people in Oklahoma would be trying to send to Obama by waving a Confederate Battle Flag?

What Duncomb is saying is the Confederate battle flag is not to blame; it's people who harbor hate. Your animosity towards an inanimate object is blinding you. We can burn every confederate flag and some people would still be racist. What's next? Are you willing to incarcerate someone for saying something you consider racist? Force them into psychological care?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think Andrew Duncomb makes a good point:

“They’re blaming the racist problems on the flag and not on the real problems of America. Through the race lies the people who carry and harbor the hate inside,” Duncomb says.

I actually don't understand what "Through the race lies the people who carry and harbor the hate inside" means. But, can you please explain, as succinctly as possible, what message people in Oklahoma would be trying to send to Obama by waving a Confederate Battle Flag?

What Duncomb is saying is the Confederate battle flag is not to blame; it's people who harbor hate. Your animosity towards an inanimate object is blinding you. We can burn every confederate flag and some people would still be racist. What's next? Are you willing to incarcerate someone for saying something you consider racist? Force them into psychological care?

Obviously flags have symbolic meanings. They represent something. Otherwise, why would we pledge allegiance to a flag? Why do people demonstrate their patriotism with flags? Why is a flag lapel pin so important for every politician to wear? If a flag was simply an "inanimate object", why would people go to the trouble of buying one, bringing it to a demonstration, and waving it around? Can you explain what message those who took those steps were trying to convey when they waved the flag in front of Obama? Why didn't they choose a Nazi flag, for instance, or an ISIS flag? Or, if they are only waving an "inanimate object", why not a piece of cardboard? What was special about the Confederate Battle Flag that caused them to choose to wave it and what message were they trying to send?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think Andrew Duncomb makes a good point:

“They’re blaming the racist problems on the flag and not on the real problems of America. Through the race lies the people who carry and harbor the hate inside,” Duncomb says.

I actually don't understand what "Through the race lies the people who carry and harbor the hate inside" means. But, can you please explain, as succinctly as possible, what message people in Oklahoma would be trying to send to Obama by waving a Confederate Battle Flag?

What Duncomb is saying is the Confederate battle flag is not to blame; it's people who harbor hate. Your animosity towards an inanimate object is blinding you. We can burn every confederate flag and some people would still be racist. What's next? Are you willing to incarcerate someone for saying something you consider racist? Force them into psychological care?

Yes, people who harbor hate are the problem. Mastery of the obvious, and nobody here ever said otherwise. But if that's all you think, then you are completely naive and totally missed the big picture.

The problem with the Confederate flag is that it is a symbol and focal point for the birds of a feather united in common racist hatred to rally behind. One lone racist over here or over there is easy to ignore, or easy to deal with and to shut down. And, on their own, their racism and hatred will eventually fizzle out. But a whole mob of racists who are unified behind a flag is a whole lot harder to ignore or deal with, it generates an hateful energy and racist life of its own that extends far beyond just the individual, and that's why the flag is a problem.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think Andrew Duncomb makes a good point:

“They’re blaming the racist problems on the flag and not on the real problems of America. Through the race lies the people who carry and harbor the hate inside,” Duncomb says.

I actually don't understand what "Through the race lies the people who carry and harbor the hate inside" means. But, can you please explain, as succinctly as possible, what message people in Oklahoma would be trying to send to Obama by waving a Confederate Battle Flag?

What Duncomb is saying is the Confederate battle flag is not to blame; it's people who harbor hate. Your animosity towards an inanimate object is blinding you. We can burn every confederate flag and some people would still be racist. What's next? Are you willing to incarcerate someone for saying something you consider racist? Force them into psychological care?

Obviously flags have symbolic meanings. They represent something. Otherwise, why would we pledge allegiance to a flag? Why do people demonstrate their patriotism with flags? Why is a flag lapel pin so important for every politician to wear? If a flag was simply an "inanimate object", why would people go to the trouble of buying one, bringing it to a demonstration, and waving it around? Can you explain what message those who took those steps were trying to convey when they waved the flag in front of Obama? Why didn't they choose a Nazi flag, for instance, or an ISIS flag? Or, if they are only waving an "inanimate object", why not a piece of cardboard? What was special about the Confederate Battle Flag that caused them to choose to wave it and what message were they trying to send?

The message they were trying to send is that the flag itself is not responsible for racism. That it's ridiculous to ascribe that much power to a flag, as if destroying it or striking it from history will change history, or the future. Or people's hearts. Flags to have symbolic meaning; you see it one way, Duncomb sees it another. The problem is, is that progressives seem to want it their way or the highway. So again, after the flag is banned/destroyed, what's next?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think Andrew Duncomb makes a good point:

“They’re blaming the racist problems on the flag and not on the real problems of America. Through the race lies the people who carry and harbor the hate inside,” Duncomb says.

I actually don't understand what "Through the race lies the people who carry and harbor the hate inside" means. But, can you please explain, as succinctly as possible, what message people in Oklahoma would be trying to send to Obama by waving a Confederate Battle Flag?

What Duncomb is saying is the Confederate battle flag is not to blame; it's people who harbor hate. Your animosity towards an inanimate object is blinding you. We can burn every confederate flag and some people would still be racist. What's next? Are you willing to incarcerate someone for saying something you consider racist? Force them into psychological care?

Obviously flags have symbolic meanings. They represent something. Otherwise, why would we pledge allegiance to a flag? Why do people demonstrate their patriotism with flags? Why is a flag lapel pin so important for every politician to wear? If a flag was simply an "inanimate object", why would people go to the trouble of buying one, bringing it to a demonstration, and waving it around? Can you explain what message those who took those steps were trying to convey when they waved the flag in front of Obama? Why didn't they choose a Nazi flag, for instance, or an ISIS flag? Or, if they are only waving an "inanimate object", why not a piece of cardboard? What was special about the Confederate Battle Flag that caused them to choose to wave it and what message were they trying to send?

The message they were trying to send is that the flag itself is not responsible for racism. That it's ridiculous to ascribe that much power to a flag, as if destroying it or striking it from history will change history, or the future. Or people's hearts. Flags to have symbolic meaning; you see it one way, Duncomb sees it another. The problem is, is that progressives seem to want it their way or the highway. So again, after the flag is banned/destroyed, what's next?

If this is the case, would you agree that the protesters urgently need a class in effective communication? If you or they believe that an almost entirely white group of people waving a flag while protesting a black man is an effective means of communicating that "the flag itself is not responsible for racism", I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.

BTW, would you feel the same way about Nazi flags carried by protestors at synagogues? Would that be an effective means of communicating that "the flag itself is not responsible for anti-Semitism"?