Should financial aid in private school be stricter?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am all for supporting people of color. Schools can admit people of color than can pay full tuition. There are plenty in the dc area.

Newsflash - they do!

Yes, hence you can achieve all your diversity goals without financial aid. Schools don’t really need to provide financial aid for diversity as you just confirmed.

You don’t recognize your bias in that statement? You assume the only criteria for diversity is skin color and that’s the only reason families of color receive aid. It’s not because the student is a great scholar, artist, musician, scientist, mathematician, or athlete?

Yes, kids of families that pay full tuition can be great scholars, artists, musician, scientist, mathematician, and athlete.

Why are we having this argument? Literally this affects a small number of people:

Sidwell: 75% are full pay, 25% receive financial aid
NCS: 77% are full pay, 23% receive financial aid
STA: 69% are full pay, 31% receive financial aid
HOLTON:76% are full pay, 24% receive financial aid
LANDON: 74% are full pay, 26% receive financial aid
POTOMAC: 79% are full pay, 21% receive financial aid
GDS: 76% are full pay, 24% receive financial aid

With the exception of St. Albans being a real outlier here, all the "name brand" schools in the area have less than a quarter of their total student body on financial aid. These are the schools with larger endowments compared to the rest and still they don't have boatloads of FA aid people.

+1
There is just a greedy little pig on the board that is upset they can't get more money from others so they squeal it s unfair. Truth is, I'd rather the teacher have it as a bonus, just like I get bonuses at work. Teaching is tough and I like to see the good teachers stay, even if their spouses have good jobs. My bonus isn't determined by my spouse's income either. So teacher's FA (or benefit or bonus - whatever you want to call it) shouldn't be determined by HHI.

Darling little pig. You are not the only one that donates. Financial aid should make sense for all parents not just you. Given that money is limited FA should be prioritized to low income families. Of course, unless you donate all the FA money. Then you would be able to set your own conditions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am all for supporting people of color. Schools can admit people of color than can pay full tuition. There are plenty in the dc area.

Newsflash - they do!

Yes, hence you can achieve all your diversity goals without financial aid. Schools don’t really need to provide financial aid for diversity as you just confirmed.

You don’t recognize your bias in that statement? You assume the only criteria for diversity is skin color and that’s the only reason families of color receive aid. It’s not because the student is a great scholar, artist, musician, scientist, mathematician, or athlete?

Yes, kids of families that pay full tuition can be great scholars, artists, musician, scientist, mathematician, and athlete.

Why are we having this argument? Literally this affects a small number of people:

Sidwell: 75% are full pay, 25% receive financial aid
NCS: 77% are full pay, 23% receive financial aid
STA: 69% are full pay, 31% receive financial aid
HOLTON:76% are full pay, 24% receive financial aid
LANDON: 74% are full pay, 26% receive financial aid
POTOMAC: 79% are full pay, 21% receive financial aid
GDS: 76% are full pay, 24% receive financial aid

With the exception of St. Albans being a real outlier here, all the "name brand" schools in the area have less than a quarter of their total student body on financial aid. These are the schools with larger endowments compared to the rest and still they don't have boatloads of FA aid people.

do those stats of percent on FA include teachers kids whose aid is NOT need based?

Yes, because it all falls into the bucket of financial aid. Need-based financial aid isn't a term I hear outside of college discussions for the FAFSA. Financial aid at our school is on a sliding scale. So a teacher whose HHI is 400k will receive less aid than a legacy who is a single parent with one salary of 100k. Both families are eligible but will be treated individually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am all for supporting people of color. Schools can admit people of color than can pay full tuition. There are plenty in the dc area.

There are full pay people of color. All the Sidwells and GDS and Cathedral Schools have them. But there are also FA white students who are teachers children too. So stop it. It doesn't matter.

should FA for teachers kid that is simply a tuition discount be counted the same as needed based FA for randos?

I guess you really don't understand that FA for a white teacher's kid is the same as a tuition discount for other students. Each family still has to pay a portion of tuition and rarely is it at 99%. So it isn't a scholarship. If a kid is getting close to full aid the kid has to be academically really strong and the parents have to make a low income like under $100K. Once the child is into the school how are they random? You obviously don't have kids at any of the top schools because you would know that.

I guess I wasn't clear.

Aren't the tuition discounts for teacher's kids a fixed percent thats not dependent on need? That is, they get the discount whether their spouse makes $0 or $400k? Then doesn't that mean it's not need based?

Not all FA is need based, nor does it need to be.

Certainly that is true, that there is merit aid.

But when a school says X% of students are on need based financial aid, should that number include teachers' kids whose discount is not need based?

These are not colleges. At our school it is all called financial aid. Maybe that's confusing for you? There is a distinction for those on athletic scholarships only.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am all for supporting people of color. Schools can admit people of color than can pay full tuition. There are plenty in the dc area.

There are full pay people of color. All the Sidwells and GDS and Cathedral Schools have them. But there are also FA white students who are teachers children too. So stop it. It doesn't matter.

should FA for teachers kid that is simply a tuition discount be counted the same as needed based FA for randos?

I guess you really don't understand that FA for a white teacher's kid is the same as a tuition discount for other students. Each family still has to pay a portion of tuition and rarely is it at 99%. So it isn't a scholarship. If a kid is getting close to full aid the kid has to be academically really strong and the parents have to make a low income like under $100K. Once the child is into the school how are they random? You obviously don't have kids at any of the top schools because you would know that.

I guess I wasn't clear.

Aren't the tuition discounts for teacher's kids a fixed percent thats not dependent on need? That is, they get the discount whether their spouse makes $0 or $400k? Then doesn't that mean it's not need based?

It depends on the school. Some offer a flat rate off tuition, while others tier it based on a full financial picture. I would argue that the teacher's children is getting a sweeter deal, especially if the spouse is making over $400K and isn't paying the full tuition. No way would a "random family" making over $400K get financial aid. So your example makes no sense.

That was my point, that the teacher's children is getting a sweeter deal and it should not be considered need based aid.

Newsflash - it's called financial aid not need-based aid. The schools can do whatever they want and they can name it whatever they like.

But isn't it misleading to call it need-based aid if it's not need based?

It's on a sliding scale based on need with one end of the scale being a bucket over XX score (land they get X%. The other end gets a much higher percentage because their need/adversity score is higher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am all for supporting people of color. Schools can admit people of color than can pay full tuition. There are plenty in the dc area.

Newsflash - they do!

Yes, hence you can achieve all your diversity goals without financial aid. Schools don’t really need to provide financial aid for diversity as you just confirmed.

I guess diversity is only color to you?

Not really. Family paying full tuition are quite diverse.

But the thing they have in common is that they are all UMC/UC, so are they diverse? They are probably all college educated too. Again, clear that to you diversity = colored people. To me, it's much broader than that. If you go to these schools there are plenty of full pay kids of all colors.

What we are really talking about here is a class divide, not a race divide.

[Anonymous]

I’ve had children in three DMV independent schools and FA at all three was just reparations by any other name. Financial need and HHI were secondary considerations at all 3.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I actually though all these school only gave need based aid, as opposed to athletic scholarships or merit scholarships. Kids may get in because of certain talents, but the aid is only need based. I could be wrong though.

Yes, you're wrong. Our school gives athletic scholarships. I don't think it's advertised. I know a girl on athletic scholarship and she lives in a $6M home. Her parents can pay, but the school really wants her. She is ranked nationally in her sport and we will all know her name within 10 years, probably 5.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually though all these school only gave need based aid, as opposed to athletic scholarships or merit scholarships. Kids may get in because of certain talents, but the aid is only need based. I could be wrong though.

Yes, you're wrong. Our school gives athletic scholarships. I don't think it's advertised. I know a girl on athletic scholarship and she lives in a $6M home. Her parents can pay, but the school really wants her. She is ranked nationally in her sport and we will all know her name within 10 years, probably 5.

How does it work if it's not advertised?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am all for supporting people of color. Schools can admit people of color than can pay full tuition. There are plenty in the dc area.

Newsflash - they do!

Yes, hence you can achieve all your diversity goals without financial aid. Schools don’t really need to provide financial aid for diversity as you just confirmed.

You don’t recognize your bias in that statement? You assume the only criteria for diversity is skin color and that’s the only reason families of color receive aid. It’s not because the student is a great scholar, artist, musician, scientist, mathematician, or athlete?

Yes, kids of families that pay full tuition can be great scholars, artists, musician, scientist, mathematician, and athlete.

Why are we having this argument? Literally this affects a small number of people:

Sidwell: 75% are full pay, 25% receive financial aid
NCS: 77% are full pay, 23% receive financial aid
STA: 69% are full pay, 31% receive financial aid
HOLTON:76% are full pay, 24% receive financial aid
LANDON: 74% are full pay, 26% receive financial aid
POTOMAC: 79% are full pay, 21% receive financial aid
GDS: 76% are full pay, 24% receive financial aid

With the exception of St. Albans being a real outlier here, all the "name brand" schools in the area have less than a quarter of their total student body on financial aid. These are the schools with larger endowments compared to the rest and still they don't have boatloads of FA aid people.

+1
There is just a greedy little pig on the board that is upset they can't get more money from others so they squeal it s unfair. Truth is, I'd rather the teacher have it as a bonus, just like I get bonuses at work. Teaching is tough and I like to see the good teachers stay, even if their spouses have good jobs. My bonus isn't determined by my spouse's income either. So teacher's FA (or benefit or bonus - whatever you want to call it) shouldn't be determined by HHI.

Darling little pig. You are not the only one that donates. Financial aid should make sense for all parents not just you. Given that money is limited FA should be prioritized to low income families. Of course, unless you donate all the FA money. Then you would be able to set your own conditions.

The schools set the conditions. If you don't like it you have 3 options:
1. Talk to the director of advancement
2. Don't donate to that category
3. Don't donate at all

It's really very simple, Little Piggy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am all for supporting people of color. Schools can admit people of color than can pay full tuition. There are plenty in the dc area.

There are full pay people of color. All the Sidwells and GDS and Cathedral Schools have them. But there are also FA white students who are teachers children too. So stop it. It doesn't matter.

should FA for teachers kid that is simply a tuition discount be counted the same as needed based FA for randos?

I guess you really don't understand that FA for a white teacher's kid is the same as a tuition discount for other students. Each family still has to pay a portion of tuition and rarely is it at 99%. So it isn't a scholarship. If a kid is getting close to full aid the kid has to be academically really strong and the parents have to make a low income like under $100K. Once the child is into the school how are they random? You obviously don't have kids at any of the top schools because you would know that.

I guess I wasn't clear.

Aren't the tuition discounts for teacher's kids a fixed percent thats not dependent on need? That is, they get the discount whether their spouse makes $0 or $400k? Then doesn't that mean it's not need based?

Not all FA is need based, nor does it need to be.

Certainly that is true, that there is merit aid.

But when a school says X% of students are on need based financial aid, should that number include teachers' kids whose discount is not need based?

These are not colleges. At our school it is all called financial aid. Maybe that's confusing for you? There is a distinction for those on athletic scholarships only.

It's a way for schools to make it seem like it is need based aid like colleges when it's not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually though all these school only gave need based aid, as opposed to athletic scholarships or merit scholarships. Kids may get in because of certain talents, but the aid is only need based. I could be wrong though.

Yes, you're wrong. Our school gives athletic scholarships. I don't think it's advertised. I know a girl on athletic scholarship and she lives in a $6M home. Her parents can pay, but the school really wants her. She is ranked nationally in her sport and we will all know her name within 10 years, probably 5.

How does it work if it's not advertised?

I've never actually asked and I'm friends with her mom. Good question, but honestly, I don't care enough to ask.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am all for supporting people of color. Schools can admit people of color than can pay full tuition. There are plenty in the dc area.

Newsflash - they do!

Yes, hence you can achieve all your diversity goals without financial aid. Schools don’t really need to provide financial aid for diversity as you just confirmed.

You don’t recognize your bias in that statement? You assume the only criteria for diversity is skin color and that’s the only reason families of color receive aid. It’s not because the student is a great scholar, artist, musician, scientist, mathematician, or athlete?

Yes, kids of families that pay full tuition can be great scholars, artists, musician, scientist, mathematician, and athlete.

Why are we having this argument? Literally this affects a small number of people:

Sidwell: 75% are full pay, 25% receive financial aid
NCS: 77% are full pay, 23% receive financial aid
STA: 69% are full pay, 31% receive financial aid
HOLTON:76% are full pay, 24% receive financial aid
LANDON: 74% are full pay, 26% receive financial aid
POTOMAC: 79% are full pay, 21% receive financial aid
GDS: 76% are full pay, 24% receive financial aid

With the exception of St. Albans being a real outlier here, all the "name brand" schools in the area have less than a quarter of their total student body on financial aid. These are the schools with larger endowments compared to the rest and still they don't have boatloads of FA aid people.

+1
There is just a greedy little pig on the board that is upset they can't get more money from others so they squeal it s unfair. Truth is, I'd rather the teacher have it as a bonus, just like I get bonuses at work. Teaching is tough and I like to see the good teachers stay, even if their spouses have good jobs. My bonus isn't determined by my spouse's income either. So teacher's FA (or benefit or bonus - whatever you want to call it) shouldn't be determined by HHI.

Darling little pig. You are not the only one that donates. Financial aid should make sense for all parents not just you. Given that money is limited FA should be prioritized to low income families. Of course, unless you donate all the FA money. Then you would be able to set your own conditions.

The schools set the conditions. If you don't like it you have 3 options:
1. Talk to the director of advancement
2. Don't donate to that category
3. Don't donate at all

It's really very simple, Little Piggy.

Thanks little piggy. Theres a fourth one for you: You can also comment in forums and learn the limitations of parents in private schools. I guess that when there is corruption in a place, it’s good to discuss it publicly. Enjoy my posts!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Socialism for the rich, golden parachutes, tax payer bailouts, tax cuts for the rich, tariffs on groceries...thank a rich person today, for our wonderful corruption proof system

Woe is me. The world so so unfair and everyone conspires to keep me down. Why can’t the someone else pays for everything I need. Why do I have to work so hard?!?!

Then just eliminate financial aid. I think it would be better. No give away to upper middle class families.

Since I can’t have it, nobody can.

It’s was sarchasm for the oligarch parent that was trolling another parent. But no. It’s very simple. Don’t give money to people that can pay for school. Very simple.

What are your criteria for who can pay? HHI, AGI, home equity, number of dependents, number of children enrolled, retirement balance, assets, or debt to income ratios? How do you know what these are for the ‘upper middle class’ families that you think are unfairly receiving aids?

This is why schools have a committee or office to determine who gets aid. No matter what they do or where they draw the line, people will complain. I'm more comfortable giving it to MC teachers to keep them longer. Some of them have been the best teachers we've had. One of our favorite teachers used this perk for her grandchildren and I thought it was a great way to reward ther tenure at the school. She was so helpful to my youngest, I think she changed my DD's life.

That’s fine for you, but would it be fine for the rest of the donors. Maybe or maybe not, because there is not full disclosure. This is not the school money, is the parents money by the way.

💯 absolutely!! It's the parent's money and they can designate how it's spent. At our school they can tick a box or fill in the blank. They can also write "I don't want teachers or MC people to receive any financial aid with this money", or, "I want all this money to upgrade the dining facilities", or, "I want this money to be spent to market in lower income communities", or, I want this money to be spent only on the girls basketball team". See how that works?

Maybe the donors should just donate to the facilities and their kids' sports - no financial aid at all. How would you find that? After all, they still get the same tax break.

That’s a good approach. In most schools financial aid is as opaque as the dark side of the moon.

Which school is that? I have 4 kids and we've been members of 4 communities through the years. I can allocate my donations at all those schools. I didn't realize there are schools that don't have that option for the donors. Which are these? I know most of the schools discussed on this forum have that as an option. You can also request to know the allocation of money. Also the report published every year. Some schools publish their annual report to the public, some don't.

For financial aid in us schools you donate to a fund and you CANNOT request that financial aid is allocate for low income families. This is decided arbitrarily by the school.

That is absolutely false. You can allocate at every school we've donated to. Clearly you have no experience with this.

Really? Can I say, please give my 1000 dollar donation to the Asian single mother than earns less than 150k. Obviously that does happen. Firs there is fundraising, and the school give away the money to well off families for random reasons.

You can absolutely do this. It would be a pain in the @ss for your school to administer this if it were a $1000 donation. Make it a $10K and watch your school rush to make it happen.

I don’t know what school you’re referring to that’s giving FA for random reasons. Our school uses an independent company to gather, validate, and assess the FA applications based on criteria the school established. Each application is assigned a grade. The clear No’s are removed and the committee review the Maybes and make their decision.

What your are saying for practical purposes does not work. I understand if you donate 10 million dollars. But for humble parents like I that can only donate 5k, that doesn’t work. Ok. Forget about it. Middle class families with financial aid can still go to Europe.

They should not be able to go to Europe if other parents are paying their tuition. I think that is the point. Private school is a luxury and not something you only pay what you can but still live a luxurious life. If you can t pay for private school then all extra income should go to the school. I would expect those on financial aid to go on my CV less expensive vacations.

Do you honestly believe that a family whose income + assets qualify them for financial aid are actually paying to go to Europe? You're mistaken. The numbers don't add up.

Their parents (students grandparents) pay for it. You never heard of parents giving their children gifts? The average home here is $1.5m+. Recipients of parent gifting are everywhere. Look to the left, look to the right, one of them or both are receiving gifts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve had children in three DMV independent schools and FA at all three was just reparations by any other name. Financial need and HHI were secondary considerations at all 3.

Racist much?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am all for supporting people of color. Schools can admit people of color than can pay full tuition. There are plenty in the dc area.

Newsflash - they do!

Yes, hence you can achieve all your diversity goals without financial aid. Schools don’t really need to provide financial aid for diversity as you just confirmed.

You don’t recognize your bias in that statement? You assume the only criteria for diversity is skin color and that’s the only reason families of color receive aid. It’s not because the student is a great scholar, artist, musician, scientist, mathematician, or athlete?

Yes, kids of families that pay full tuition can be great scholars, artists, musician, scientist, mathematician, and athlete.

Why are we having this argument? Literally this affects a small number of people:

Sidwell: 75% are full pay, 25% receive financial aid
NCS: 77% are full pay, 23% receive financial aid
STA: 69% are full pay, 31% receive financial aid
HOLTON:76% are full pay, 24% receive financial aid
LANDON: 74% are full pay, 26% receive financial aid
POTOMAC: 79% are full pay, 21% receive financial aid
GDS: 76% are full pay, 24% receive financial aid

With the exception of St. Albans being a real outlier here, all the "name brand" schools in the area have less than a quarter of their total student body on financial aid. These are the schools with larger endowments compared to the rest and still they don't have boatloads of FA aid people.

+1
There is just a greedy little pig on the board that is upset they can't get more money from others so they squeal it s unfair. Truth is, I'd rather the teacher have it as a bonus, just like I get bonuses at work. Teaching is tough and I like to see the good teachers stay, even if their spouses have good jobs. My bonus isn't determined by my spouse's income either. So teacher's FA (or benefit or bonus - whatever you want to call it) shouldn't be determined by HHI.

Darling little pig. You are not the only one that donates. Financial aid should make sense for all parents not just you. Given that money is limited FA should be prioritized to low income families. Of course, unless you donate all the FA money. Then you would be able to set your own conditions.

The schools set the conditions. If you don't like it you have 3 options:
1. Talk to the director of advancement
2. Don't donate to that category
3. Don't donate at all

It's really very simple, Little Piggy.

Thanks little piggy. Theres a fourth one for you: You can also comment in forums and learn the limitations of parents in private schools. I guess that when there is corruption in a place, it’s good to discuss it publicly. Enjoy my posts!

You're welcome. I do have an uncanny ability to break down simple concepts into even more simplistic terms so slower people, like you, can understand. And yes #4 was obviously implicit. Since there is so much corruption in your eyes you should do something other than whining anonymously like a powerless wimp. Oh wait....