New OPM memo on RTO

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband who works in logistics does 4/10s, will he have to change his schedule?

AFAIK nothing in RTO discussions touches alt work schedules— it’s about where you work not your work schedule

Well it did say 5 days in person 🤷🏼‍♀️.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This really doesn’t affect me. I live 25
Min from the office, my kids are in aftercare/camps, therefore I can go back to the office everyday starting tomorrow. However, I am highly protective/efficient, I work 9-10 hrs at home. I will be in the office 8hrs and will work 4, then I will spend the other 4 hrs socializing. If you think that I don’t work then I won’t work. But I am not leaving my job.

Same. My kids are in HS. I work 9-10 hours a day and respond to emails even earlier/later since my agency allows Teams on personal phone. My commute isn’t bad. But they are getting strictly 7:30-4 once I return to the office.

If you don’t care about the mission quit, but refusing to work is pathetic and unethical, and I hope you get fired. Btw I’m a democratic who voted for Kamala. They want you to not do your job. They want you to quite quit so that nothing good gets enforced or done or so you screw yourself over so badly you get put on a PIP and fired. I hope the deep state is smarter than you, because we need intelligent people doing their jobs over the next four years instead of the entitled, self righteous people on here whining about aftercare and claiming they can’t have a child until both they and their husband have work from home jobs. Grow up.

Working your actual scheduled work hours is not being unethical. It’s doing what you have been hired to do.

Is Congress working overtime? Are they full time M-F in their offices now?

I think giving my 40 hours is what I was hired to do.

Working for four hours and socializing for four hours is pathetic.

What do you do? Do you ever talk to a coworker?

I don’t spend four hours a day socializing. I catch up with people, but not over half of a workday. Antics like that will become self inflicted wounds pretty quickly. At least resign with your dignity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:people are acting as if before Covid they were not going to the office five days a week and made it work.

Agree. When my kids were young, it was daycare, then before and after care once they were school aged. It annoys me all of these people that have been abusing telework to avoid paying for daycare or before/after care.

Yeah, this. Back in the day, I actually had to quit my FT job and find a part time job, since I did want to be with my kids at pick up. Have friends who hired help for the 3:30-6pm window, many others who did aftercare. This is what we've all been doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:people are acting as if before Covid they were not going to the office five days a week and made it work.

Agree. When my kids were young, it was daycare, then before and after care once they were school aged. It annoys me all of these people that have been abusing telework to avoid paying for daycare or before/after care.

Yeah, this. Back in the day, I actually had to quit my FT job and find a part time job, since I did want to be with my kids at pick up. Have friends who hired help for the 3:30-6pm window, many others who did aftercare. This is what we've all been doing.

It is not "back in the day." There was a pandemic and new technology was accepted. Just because you walked a mile uphill in the snow doesn't mean we all should?! PS - I don't even like working at home, but this mindset is just dumb.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:people are acting as if before Covid they were not going to the office five days a week and made it work.

Who didn't have telework before covid?

Me. I was the only manager in my office who didn’t telework. The boss didn’t like it so I just didn’t do it but I would flex and TW on occasion.

Not being around personalities like you and your boss was one of the greatest benefits of telework.

Um okay whatevs. I wanted to TW I just felt pressured by my boss not to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This really doesn’t affect me. I live 25
Min from the office, my kids are in aftercare/camps, therefore I can go back to the office everyday starting tomorrow. However, I am highly protective/efficient, I work 9-10 hrs at home. I will be in the office 8hrs and will work 4, then I will spend the other 4 hrs socializing. If you think that I don’t work then I won’t work. But I am not leaving my job.

Same. My kids are in HS. I work 9-10 hours a day and respond to emails even earlier/later since my agency allows Teams on personal phone. My commute isn’t bad. But they are getting strictly 7:30-4 once I return to the office.

If you don’t care about the mission quit, but refusing to work is pathetic and unethical, and I hope you get fired. Btw I’m a democratic who voted for Kamala. They want you to not do your job. They want you to quite quit so that nothing good gets enforced or done or so you screw yourself over so badly you get put on a PIP and fired. I hope the deep state is smarter than you, because we need intelligent people doing their jobs over the next four years instead of the entitled, self righteous people on here whining about aftercare and claiming they can’t have a child until both they and their husband have work from home jobs. Grow up.

Working your actual scheduled work hours is not being unethical. It’s doing what you have been hired to do.

Is Congress working overtime? Are they full time M-F in their offices now?

I think giving my 40 hours is what I was hired to do.

Working for four hours and socializing for four hours is pathetic.

What do you do? Do you ever talk to a coworker?

I don’t spend four hours a day socializing. I catch up with people, but not over half of a workday. Antics like that will become self inflicted wounds pretty quickly. At least resign with your dignity.

Do not resign! That is what they want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:people are acting as if before Covid they were not going to the office five days a week and made it work.

Agree. When my kids were young, it was daycare, then before and after care once they were school aged. It annoys me all of these people that have been abusing telework to avoid paying for daycare or before/after care.

Yeah, this. Back in the day, I actually had to quit my FT job and find a part time job, since I did want to be with my kids at pick up. Have friends who hired help for the 3:30-6pm window, many others who did aftercare. This is what we've all been doing.

It is not "back in the day." There was a pandemic and new technology was accepted. Just because you walked a mile uphill in the snow doesn't mean we all should?! PS - I don't even like working at home, but this mindset is just dumb.

Amazon, Goldman Sachs, Citi, J.p. morgan, Morgan Stanley, Microsoft, and countless other companies and institutions have been back FT in person for years post pandemic. It’s not “back in the day” it’s actually “right now.” Your situation is not unique.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m at a private company that did RTO about a year ago. I agree this is all dumb and performative, but it won’t actually be that bad. Everyone at my company just leaves at 3:30-4 to get kids, beat traffic, etc. It’s technically not allowed but all the managers look the other way because they are doing the same thing. I work fewer hours than I used to even though total time commitment with the commute is about the same.

This. Same experience. I find it bizarre that it’s now acceptable to work from 9:30 AM - 4 PM. Sometimes I even leave at 3.

Fed here. We just can’t do that. The #1 way to fire a Fed is timesheet fraud. It’s so easy if you prove it.

How do you prove it??

They can pull both logins with your card on physical doors and they can pull IT computer records.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

My kids were not yet school aged when COVID started so they were still in daycare/preschool. But even before COVID DH and I both teleworked multiple days per week so that at least one of us was home. Usually the commuting spouse would do morning drop off since they had to head out anyway and then the teleworking parent would do pickup so the kids didn’t have to be there past 5.

I think a lot of parents of school aged kids teleworked at least hybrid before COVID. It’s not like March 2020 marked the invention of WAH. For those who need longer hours, they use aftercare, but staffing has gotten harder in the childcare sector so spots are limited with long waitlists. Or maybe if you’re lucky you can find a martial arts type place that has a van to do school pickup and take them to do activities.

I also think a lot of the parents were just not in the workforce or were underemployed. I guess this administration thinks that is preferable to go back to.

My kids a now in extracurriculars starting as early as 4:30/5. To keep them in we’d have to take leave some days, use carpools, stagger hours, not really sure yet … thankfully my DH’s private sector job has been remote since 2018 and his colleagues are scattered across the country with no office to go to, so I guess he would have to take on more of the kid shuffling at home if I go back 5 days (holding out hope my agency’s CBA holds). I would try to jump ship out of government quickly though if forced to commute 5 days/week.

The schedule and juggling you describe is very normal. My husband is 5x/week and I am remote and do more juggling, but I can’t do it all while working during the day, so we have a nanny who helps after school with driving while I am working. Millions of people do this and it is not fun, but it is the norm.

Let me guess, either you don’t live in the DC area, or your husband is a high earner in the private sector. My husband and I are both feds and would not be able to afford a nanny to drive our two elementary aged kids to activities.

As others have mentioned camps alone offer garbage hours and after care to add on another $200 to a camp week that already costs $500 is cost prohibitive.

Our kids were 2 and 5 when Covid hit and we sucked it up and maintained our work performance and duties even though it felt impossible. We had no help. This feels like a real “f you” after we have been dedicated career civil servants over many years for different administrations.

We don’t have a problem with returning to the office, but, the extremism is the issue. Why strip people of flexibilities they had prior to Covid? Why suggest total eradication of telework? If we can even keep 1-2 days per week that will help most people feel like they can stay a little sane and manage all of their work/life balances and priorities.

Its tone deaf to act like this is a brand new and insurmountable problem. Many people are working in person for the last few years, many of them have kids, and many of them are not high earners.

Before and after care exists for a reason. If you cant flex your schedule you use it. And stop signing up for activities that start before 6pm.

By elementary school, every family I knew had a spouse who worked part time or SAH (or was a teacher). That’s what you have to do to avoid having kids in aftercare till 6 or to manage any after school activities.

Exactly. It’s what I did, and honestly I took a major career hit. And apparently a bunch of government employees never had to take this hit because they’re paid while they watch their kids. And now it’s ending.

We don’t watch our kids!!! They are in school and we pay for after care.

My fed office moved during Covid. It went from a 20 minute commute to what is now a 40 minute commute on a good day. I already do not full time telework.

But if I go in 5 days per week along with every other gov person my commute will likely be 1 hour plus.

We have no family locally. My spouse and I have always made it work.

But making our lives harder just for fun is stupid.

My spouse is a veteran as was my late father. We have spent our lives serving our country in various capacities. Riddle me this—is this admin, and its supporters are all pro family pro life, why is it against supporting actual families that exist?! That currently serve the American public??? Make it make sense!!

They are pro family with a working father and SAHM.

I truly hope it chaps their a$$ to know that I am a woman who will be leaving my federal govt job where I can get my kids off the bus and moving to biglaw where I’ll have to hire some stranger to watch my kids instead. I’ll make lots of money, though. Sorry MAGAs.

I truly love how every single Fed lawyer is convinced that they can seamlessly make the transition to BigLaw, and succeed.

PP. I came from BigLaw but keep the sass up bc I’m thriving on the hate.

Wow! Bad look. Sounds like you’re full of attitude. You probably couldn’t get rehired by BigLaw.

You can keep telling yourself that as I spent my night discussing the merits of my biglaw offer vs my in-house offer with my husband and how we will arrange for the extra childcare for our twins. Sorry if that doesn’t fit your MAGA narrative of fed lawyers heading to the breadline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This really doesn’t affect me. I live 25
Min from the office, my kids are in aftercare/camps, therefore I can go back to the office everyday starting tomorrow. However, I am highly protective/efficient, I work 9-10 hrs at home. I will be in the office 8hrs and will work 4, then I will spend the other 4 hrs socializing. If you think that I don’t work then I won’t work. But I am not leaving my job.

Same. My kids are in HS. I work 9-10 hours a day and respond to emails even earlier/later since my agency allows Teams on personal phone. My commute isn’t bad. But they are getting strictly 7:30-4 once I return to the office.

If you don’t care about the mission quit, but refusing to work is pathetic and unethical, and I hope you get fired. Btw I’m a democratic who voted for Kamala. They want you to not do your job. They want you to quite quit so that nothing good gets enforced or done or so you screw yourself over so badly you get put on a PIP and fired. I hope the deep state is smarter than you, because we need intelligent people doing their jobs over the next four years instead of the entitled, self righteous people on here whining about aftercare and claiming they can’t have a child until both they and their husband have work from home jobs. Grow up.

Working your actual scheduled work hours is not being unethical. It’s doing what you have been hired to do.

Is Congress working overtime? Are they full time M-F in their offices now?

I think giving my 40 hours is what I was hired to do.

Working for four hours and socializing for four hours is pathetic.

What do you do? Do you ever talk to a coworker?

I don’t spend four hours a day socializing. I catch up with people, but not over half of a workday. Antics like that will become self inflicted wounds pretty quickly. At least resign with your dignity.

Do not resign! That is what they want.

I’m a democrat. I want people to stay and do their job. Not stay and do nothing, especially the people at DOJ, SEC, NOAA, and EPA. I actually wish you all had done more under Biden, but doing less under Trump to protest Trump will just hurt America even more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m at a private company that did RTO about a year ago. I agree this is all dumb and performative, but it won’t actually be that bad. Everyone at my company just leaves at 3:30-4 to get kids, beat traffic, etc. It’s technically not allowed but all the managers look the other way because they are doing the same thing. I work fewer hours than I used to even though total time commitment with the commute is about the same.

This. Same experience. I find it bizarre that it’s now acceptable to work from 9:30 AM - 4 PM. Sometimes I even leave at 3.

Fed here. We just can’t do that. The #1 way to fire a Fed is timesheet fraud. It’s so easy if you prove it.

How do you prove it??

They can pull both logins with your card on physical doors and they can pull IT computer records.

DP. My federal husband just explained this process to me. He can easily monitor his employees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:people are acting as if before Covid they were not going to the office five days a week and made it work.

Agree. When my kids were young, it was daycare, then before and after care once they were school aged. It annoys me all of these people that have been abusing telework to avoid paying for daycare or before/after care.

Yeah, this. Back in the day, I actually had to quit my FT job and find a part time job, since I did want to be with my kids at pick up. Have friends who hired help for the 3:30-6pm window, many others who did aftercare. This is what we've all been doing.

It is not "back in the day." There was a pandemic and new technology was accepted. Just because you walked a mile uphill in the snow doesn't mean we all should?! PS - I don't even like working at home, but this mindset is just dumb.

Yes. There was a pandemic and all the daycares and schools closed, so parents were forced to work while also providing childcare. Managers were flexible and understanding of the impossible situation. Childcare while teleworking was expressly authorized during the pandemic. Then schools and daycares reopened. And I know in my agency they clearly sent out policy rescinding watching children while teleworking. Many reminders that employees needed to have arrangements for childcare during their working hours. It has been this way for 3 years. However, I know a lot of people who did not bother getting their children enrolled in daycare or before, and after care. There is also a big difference between needing after before and after care for a 1st grader, and needing it for a 4th grader. A 4th grader you can just make sure they got off the bus and into the house and they can entertain themselves and know not to interrupt mom or dad on their work calls. But the early elementary? Not so much.
I know one couple with 3 kids under 5. They alternate in office days so someone is home watching the kids. Tell me how productive at work they are when they are teleworking. Their excuse is they can’t find a daycare. BS. They’ve had years to find a daycare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

My kids were not yet school aged when COVID started so they were still in daycare/preschool. But even before COVID DH and I both teleworked multiple days per week so that at least one of us was home. Usually the commuting spouse would do morning drop off since they had to head out anyway and then the teleworking parent would do pickup so the kids didn’t have to be there past 5.

I think a lot of parents of school aged kids teleworked at least hybrid before COVID. It’s not like March 2020 marked the invention of WAH. For those who need longer hours, they use aftercare, but staffing has gotten harder in the childcare sector so spots are limited with long waitlists. Or maybe if you’re lucky you can find a martial arts type place that has a van to do school pickup and take them to do activities.

I also think a lot of the parents were just not in the workforce or were underemployed. I guess this administration thinks that is preferable to go back to.

My kids a now in extracurriculars starting as early as 4:30/5. To keep them in we’d have to take leave some days, use carpools, stagger hours, not really sure yet … thankfully my DH’s private sector job has been remote since 2018 and his colleagues are scattered across the country with no office to go to, so I guess he would have to take on more of the kid shuffling at home if I go back 5 days (holding out hope my agency’s CBA holds). I would try to jump ship out of government quickly though if forced to commute 5 days/week.

The schedule and juggling you describe is very normal. My husband is 5x/week and I am remote and do more juggling, but I can’t do it all while working during the day, so we have a nanny who helps after school with driving while I am working. Millions of people do this and it is not fun, but it is the norm.

Let me guess, either you don’t live in the DC area, or your husband is a high earner in the private sector. My husband and I are both feds and would not be able to afford a nanny to drive our two elementary aged kids to activities.

As others have mentioned camps alone offer garbage hours and after care to add on another $200 to a camp week that already costs $500 is cost prohibitive.

Our kids were 2 and 5 when Covid hit and we sucked it up and maintained our work performance and duties even though it felt impossible. We had no help. This feels like a real “f you” after we have been dedicated career civil servants over many years for different administrations.

We don’t have a problem with returning to the office, but, the extremism is the issue. Why strip people of flexibilities they had prior to Covid? Why suggest total eradication of telework? If we can even keep 1-2 days per week that will help most people feel like they can stay a little sane and manage all of their work/life balances and priorities.

Its tone deaf to act like this is a brand new and insurmountable problem. Many people are working in person for the last few years, many of them have kids, and many of them are not high earners.

Before and after care exists for a reason. If you cant flex your schedule you use it. And stop signing up for activities that start before 6pm.

By elementary school, every family I knew had a spouse who worked part time or SAH (or was a teacher). That’s what you have to do to avoid having kids in aftercare till 6 or to manage any after school activities.

Exactly. It’s what I did, and honestly I took a major career hit. And apparently a bunch of government employees never had to take this hit because they’re paid while they watch their kids. And now it’s ending.

We don’t watch our kids!!! They are in school and we pay for after care.

My fed office moved during Covid. It went from a 20 minute commute to what is now a 40 minute commute on a good day. I already do not full time telework.

But if I go in 5 days per week along with every other gov person my commute will likely be 1 hour plus.

We have no family locally. My spouse and I have always made it work.

But making our lives harder just for fun is stupid.

My spouse is a veteran as was my late father. We have spent our lives serving our country in various capacities. Riddle me this—is this admin, and its supporters are all pro family pro life, why is it against supporting actual families that exist?! That currently serve the American public??? Make it make sense!!

They are pro family with a working father and SAHM.

I truly hope it chaps their a$$ to know that I am a woman who will be leaving my federal govt job where I can get my kids off the bus and moving to biglaw where I’ll have to hire some stranger to watch my kids instead. I’ll make lots of money, though. Sorry MAGAs.

I truly love how every single Fed lawyer is convinced that they can seamlessly make the transition to BigLaw, and succeed.

PP. I came from BigLaw but keep the sass up bc I’m thriving on the hate.

Wow! Bad look. Sounds like you’re full of attitude. You probably couldn’t get rehired by BigLaw.

You can keep telling yourself that as I spent my night discussing the merits of my biglaw offer vs my in-house offer with my husband and how we will arrange for the extra childcare for our twins. Sorry if that doesn’t fit your MAGA narrative of fed lawyers heading to the breadline.

No one cares. You sound insufferable and like a complete narcissist. It’s not about you, Jan.

[Anonymous]

latest article on RTW from OPM
https://www.meritalk.com/articles/opm-directs-agencies-to-make-plans-to-end-telework-by-tomorrow/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:people are acting as if before Covid they were not going to the office five days a week and made it work.

Agree. When my kids were young, it was daycare, then before and after care once they were school aged. It annoys me all of these people that have been abusing telework to avoid paying for daycare or before/after care.

Yeah, this. Back in the day, I actually had to quit my FT job and find a part time job, since I did want to be with my kids at pick up. Have friends who hired help for the 3:30-6pm window, many others who did aftercare. This is what we've all been doing.

It is not "back in the day." There was a pandemic and new technology was accepted. Just because you walked a mile uphill in the snow doesn't mean we all should?! PS - I don't even like working at home, but this mindset is just dumb.

Yes. There was a pandemic and all the daycares and schools closed, so parents were forced to work while also providing childcare. Managers were flexible and understanding of the impossible situation. Childcare while teleworking was expressly authorized during the pandemic. Then schools and daycares reopened. And I know in my agency they clearly sent out policy rescinding watching children while teleworking. Many reminders that employees needed to have arrangements for childcare during their working hours. It has been this way for 3 years. However, I know a lot of people who did not bother getting their children enrolled in daycare or before, and after care. There is also a big difference between needing after before and after care for a 1st grader, and needing it for a 4th grader. A 4th grader you can just make sure they got off the bus and into the house and they can entertain themselves and know not to interrupt mom or dad on their work calls. But the early elementary? Not so much.
I know one couple with 3 kids under 5. They alternate in office days so someone is home watching the kids. Tell me how productive at work they are when they are teleworking. Their excuse is they can’t find a daycare. BS. They’ve had years to find a daycare.

Oh yes, and you can take care of your kids all day and use maxi flex. Everyone knows that the best hours to get things done are between 9:30 pm -1:30 am Monday- Friday. Totally believable that someone is doing their best work in the middle of the night after taking care of young children all day.