DDOT's latest plan to destroy traffic, Georgia Avenue edition

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But life does not happen in a vaccuum. People will take those alternate routes and therefore, according to the underlying theory, that will increse both serious and not-serious accidents on the aggregate.

Then you should be out there hollering at DDOT to put traffic calming on those alternate routes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure Waze runs DDOT. Why would you want to redirect the traffic from a major thoroughfare onto all the surrounding side streets?

The concurrence of the talking points being deployed against this proposal with what was trotted out in response to Conn Ave Concept C is absolutely stunning.

Same complete lack of understanding of transportation dynamics. And probably the same exact people.

No, no, it's very different!

On Connecticut Avenue: We oppose bike lanes, they will kill children, Connecticut Avenue is safe, the real problem is double parking, this is all part of the war on cars, we would support bus lanes.

On Georgia Avenue: We oppose bus lanes, they will kill children, Georgia Avenue is safe, the real problem is double parking, this is all part of the war on cars.

(Actually it's not different at all.)

Or

On Connecticut: We don't care about bike lanes but it is a bad idea to eliminate two lanes because the increased congestion will make things less safe both on Connecticut and the surrounding streets.

On Georgia: We don't care about bus lanes but it is a bad idea to eliminate half of the traffic lanes because the increased congestion will make things less safe both on Georgia and the surrounding streets.

You're right. It is the same.

Yes, you're right. In both cases, you are opposing actions that would make the street safer and more comfortable for people not in cars, because you are prioritizing the movement of cars.

No. In both cases the proposed changes make streets less safe and less confortable for everyone.

It's even more galling when one realizes that the exact same dangerous plan has been proposed for every North-South route in NW without a single analysis of what the already implemented changes have done.

This is true, if "everyone" means "people in cars who don't want to drive slowly and carefully". Actually no, it's still not true, because it will even make those streets safer for people in cars who don't want to drive slowly and carefully.

No, you're still lying. The issue is rush hour. The times of day when most people use those roads, when kids go to school, when the most accidents occur, when everyone is already driving slowly because of congestion, and when increasing congestion causes the most safety problems.

You can lower the speed limit to 15 during rush hour and it won't make a difference either way. Nobody is speeding on Georgia or Connecticut during the rush hours. Which also happens to be the time of the day when most of the accidents occur.

The absolute craziest part of this though is that this has already been implemented on 16th and partially implemented on Connecticut. We have two case studies in our backyard on parallel streets. Why aren't we studying the impact? How much spillover traffic has there been? Have accidents gone up or down?

I experience speeding drivers almost every day on Connecticut during AM rush hour (around 8am or so). The road is backed up in a couple of spots, but in between those the drivers get spread out and the aggressive ones weave and speed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure Waze runs DDOT. Why would you want to redirect the traffic from a major thoroughfare onto all the surrounding side streets?

The concurrence of the talking points being deployed against this proposal with what was trotted out in response to Conn Ave Concept C is absolutely stunning.

Same complete lack of understanding of transportation dynamics. And probably the same exact people.

No, no, it's very different!

On Connecticut Avenue: We oppose bike lanes, they will kill children, Connecticut Avenue is safe, the real problem is double parking, this is all part of the war on cars, we would support bus lanes.

On Georgia Avenue: We oppose bus lanes, they will kill children, Georgia Avenue is safe, the real problem is double parking, this is all part of the war on cars.

(Actually it's not different at all.)

Or

On Connecticut: We don't care about bike lanes but it is a bad idea to eliminate two lanes because the increased congestion will make things less safe both on Connecticut and the surrounding streets.

On Georgia: We don't care about bus lanes but it is a bad idea to eliminate half of the traffic lanes because the increased congestion will make things less safe both on Georgia and the surrounding streets.

You're right. It is the same.

Yes, you're right. In both cases, you are opposing actions that would make the street safer and more comfortable for people not in cars, because you are prioritizing the movement of cars.

No. In both cases the proposed changes make streets less safe and less confortable for everyone.

It's even more galling when one realizes that the exact same dangerous plan has been proposed for every North-South route in NW without a single analysis of what the already implemented changes have done.

This is true, if "everyone" means "people in cars who don't want to drive slowly and carefully". Actually no, it's still not true, because it will even make those streets safer for people in cars who don't want to drive slowly and carefully.

No, you're still lying. The issue is rush hour. The times of day when most people use those roads, when kids go to school, when the most accidents occur, when everyone is already driving slowly because of congestion, and when increasing congestion causes the most safety problems.

You can lower the speed limit to 15 during rush hour and it won't make a difference either way. Nobody is speeding on Georgia or Connecticut during the rush hours. Which also happens to be the time of the day when most of the accidents occur.

The absolute craziest part of this though is that this has already been implemented on 16th and partially implemented on Connecticut. We have two case studies in our backyard on parallel streets. Why aren't we studying the impact? How much spillover traffic has there been? Have accidents gone up or down?

I experience speeding drivers almost every day on Connecticut during AM rush hour (around 8am or so). The road is backed up in a couple of spots, but in between those the drivers get spread out and the aggressive ones weave and speed.

Of course dear reader traffic calming on Ct Ave was rejected …

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure Waze runs DDOT. Why would you want to redirect the traffic from a major thoroughfare onto all the surrounding side streets?

The concurrence of the talking points being deployed against this proposal with what was trotted out in response to Conn Ave Concept C is absolutely stunning.

Same complete lack of understanding of transportation dynamics. And probably the same exact people.

No, no, it's very different!

On Connecticut Avenue: We oppose bike lanes, they will kill children, Connecticut Avenue is safe, the real problem is double parking, this is all part of the war on cars, we would support bus lanes.

On Georgia Avenue: We oppose bus lanes, they will kill children, Georgia Avenue is safe, the real problem is double parking, this is all part of the war on cars.

(Actually it's not different at all.)

Or

On Connecticut: We don't care about bike lanes but it is a bad idea to eliminate two lanes because the increased congestion will make things less safe both on Connecticut and the surrounding streets.

On Georgia: We don't care about bus lanes but it is a bad idea to eliminate half of the traffic lanes because the increased congestion will make things less safe both on Georgia and the surrounding streets.

You're right. It is the same.

Yes, you're right. In both cases, you are opposing actions that would make the street safer and more comfortable for people not in cars, because you are prioritizing the movement of cars.

No. In both cases the proposed changes make streets less safe and less confortable for everyone.

It's even more galling when one realizes that the exact same dangerous plan has been proposed for every North-South route in NW without a single analysis of what the already implemented changes have done.

This is true, if "everyone" means "people in cars who don't want to drive slowly and carefully". Actually no, it's still not true, because it will even make those streets safer for people in cars who don't want to drive slowly and carefully.

No, you're still lying. The issue is rush hour. The times of day when most people use those roads, when kids go to school, when the most accidents occur, when everyone is already driving slowly because of congestion, and when increasing congestion causes the most safety problems.

You can lower the speed limit to 15 during rush hour and it won't make a difference either way. Nobody is speeding on Georgia or Connecticut during the rush hours. Which also happens to be the time of the day when most of the accidents occur.

The absolute craziest part of this though is that this has already been implemented on 16th and partially implemented on Connecticut. We have two case studies in our backyard on parallel streets. Why aren't we studying the impact? How much spillover traffic has there been? Have accidents gone up or down?

Your perspective is hard to understand. If GA Ave is congested already, then your assumptions suggest that spillover to the side streets is already happening. Which, if there is a concern about the adverse safety consequences of the diverting traffic suggests an urgent need for traffic calming measures along the side streets.

Absent other transportation alternatives or a steep drop-off in the DC economy, this congestion will get worse over time, resulting in more diverting traffic and potentially increased safety risks along the side streets.

Putting in a bus lane means that people will be able to commute downtown much faster by bus, which will encourage some drivers to switch modes (maybe not immediately, but over a year or two). This takes cars off the road and relieves congestion - and diverting traffic - relative to what it would have been otherwise.

In the absence of making buses and other commuting modes more efficient and attractive or an economic crash, there is no scenario whereby congestion along GA Ave and diverting traffic doesn’t get worse in the coming years. I really don’t know who you think you are helping by opposing this proposal.

[Anonymous]

They absolutely need to consider how this will impact adjacent roads and neighborhoods. It should not be an afterthought.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They absolutely need to consider how this will impact adjacent roads and neighborhoods. It should not be an afterthought.

It's not. Over time, bus lanes will, if anything, help reduce congestion on adjacent roads and neighborhoods (at least relative to what would have been the case otherwise).

[Anonymous]

Unbelievable how they are making traffic so much worse:
1. No American Legion Bridge solution (VA is kicking our a$$ on this)
2. Bike lanes on Old Georgetown Road
3. Now bus lanes on Georgia

Whoever is in charge of transportation is Maryland/Montgomery County doing a lousy job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unbelievable how they are making traffic so much worse:
1. No American Legion Bridge solution (VA is kicking our a$$ on this)
2. Bike lanes on Old Georgetown Road
3. Now bus lanes on Georgia

Whoever is in charge of transportation is Maryland/Montgomery County doing a lousy job.

Move to DC and buy a bike.

[Anonymous]

I don't understand the title of this entire post- isn't "destroying traffic" the goal? Do we want traffic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the title of this entire post- isn't "destroying traffic" the goal? Do we want traffic?

For some reason people think replacing POV traffic, which has the highest fatality rate, with bus traffic, which has one of the lowest fatality rates, will somehow lead to an increase in fatalities because drivers will seek out kids on side-streets to run over in their rage and this is a good reason to maintain the status quo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the title of this entire post- isn't "destroying traffic" the goal? Do we want traffic?

Apparently we do want traffic, or at least some of the posters on this thread do want traffic, because they are opposing everything that would lead to better mobility and less traffic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unbelievable how they are making traffic so much worse:
1. No American Legion Bridge solution (VA is kicking our a$$ on this)
2. Bike lanes on Old Georgetown Road
3. Now bus lanes on Georgia

Whoever is in charge of transportation is Maryland/Montgomery County doing a lousy job.

People are still whining about the bike lanes on Old Georgetown Road? Good grief. Get over it. Car congestion isn't worse, travel time isn't longer, and it's a lot safer for everyone, including you in your car.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the title of this entire post- isn't "destroying traffic" the goal? Do we want traffic?

Apparently we do want traffic, or at least some of the posters on this thread do want traffic, because they are opposing everything that would lead to better mobility and less traffic.

the goal is actually safer speeds by cars and faster speeds by bus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just want to point out that within a few days this thread has almost hit 50 pages and so is on track to ramp up to the same amount as the Conn Ave bike lanes. Only proving that all of you people opposing the Conn Ave bike lanes because of entitled scofflaw cyclists or some shit are full of crap. You carbrain morons oppose anything that impedes your commute hard stop. Whether that's a bike lane, the goddamn streetcar, a bus lane, or a streetery. There's no negotiation or design consideration that DDOT or any advocates for any multimodal transportation because you can't get your head out of your ass long enough to take a step back and consider a bigger picture.

Ridiculous.

DDOT staff should come here and read this garbage so that the next time Nick Delledonne and crew show up to whine and moan they can just be ignored for the obstructionists they are.

Yes, I will own the idea that I object to government making it harder for people to use their cars, a mode of transportation that people clearly prefer. I have lived in MoCo for 30+ years and we have seen government continually try to move people to public transit by making their lives miserable. So far, it hasn't worked. Honestly, we know all of you hate Maryland commuters, but I don't think your city thrives if you make everyone want to stop going there.

Bus only lanes are supposed to be better for the environment. But that's only true if people switch from driving to the bus. If bus only lanes just make drivers sit in traffic longer, then bus-only lanes are *bad* for the environment.

It would be great if the city could provide data showing that existing bus only lanes, some of which are years old, are removing cars from the streets, but they can't because that isn't happening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the title of this entire post- isn't "destroying traffic" the goal? Do we want traffic?

Apparently we do want traffic, or at least some of the posters on this thread do want traffic, because they are opposing everything that would lead to better mobility and less traffic.

the goal is actually safer speeds by cars and faster speeds by bus.

There's already traffic speed cameras up and down Georgia. If you don't think those are working, then it seems to fair to ask why camera enforcement of bus only lanes would work.