Race in college admissions is back in front of the Supreme Court Oral Argument on Oct. 31 (Monday)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:A lot of it is “legalized” cheating. I grew up in NY.

My Asian friends parents sent them to Cram schools in summer. They actually request the books for next school year then spend 40 hours a week all summer studying.

They had pros helping with Essay, SAT tutors. Many their focus was just homework. And they worked as a group helping each other.

Compared to me. I worked 20 hours a week in HS, had chores. SAT was a book I took out of library. Paid SAT and college fees my self no help. Most of childhood slept in living room as did not even a bedroom so no place to study.

But how do you compare GPAs and SATs scores. Could my Asian class mate done any better than me.

I got lucky and a college had a program for disadvantaged students with potential and I got on. I recall a fellow student was appalled I needed under a certain HS GPA and SAT score to qualify. He said unfair I got in by having a GPA under a random number. Ironically how is it fair he got in with a GPA over a random number? That guy ended up moving near me in my 40s, we both graduated college, got similar household incomes and similar jobs,

Basing admittance on a random number is silly. Holistic approach is better.

Holistic approach is good.
However what makes you think that you would be better in other extra areas such as ECs, Awards, Essay, Reasearch, etc than those
Asian kids.

Based on what you said, they are probably overall better on those areas as well.

Neither is "better" that is the point of having both in the same college.

They can't have everyone in the college.
let's not go to fairy tales

That's right, somebody sold the high SAT holders a "fairy tale" story if they give up their childhood for test prep they will be given the golden ticket. Then they see their peers with lower test scores going to their #1 college and they are mad that they were lied to, but they were lied to by their parents... not society, not colleges, their parents.

Both are just as good... so sometimes the low SAT score (of course it's still in the top 10% of the nation) get admitted over those with a slightly higher test score.

Asians are not getting passed over in favor of kids with a "slightly" lower SAT score, but a massively lower score.

No they aren’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why can’t they just put on the application “were your ancestors even enslaved in the United States”

Because racial quotas in college admission have nothing to do with slavery.

This shows you don't understand the issue at all. It's not reparations, and it is not affirmative action.

It has to do with colleges wanting a representative balance in races to achieve their mission. If they can't then they can't get the students they want, for the same reason non AA people don't choose to attend excellent HBC schools. And in colleges where Asians are URM applicants, they get the same benefit from the policy, which is again proof it isn't racist.

These are facts.

Facts that are mostly ignored by people here with an agenda.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Nothing says the schools have to pick their students based on academic merit alone. It's not a simple GPA/standardized test score combo that is required to gain admission.

Athletes - If the schools choose to have athletic teams as an activity, why not fill them with decent players? Not shocking. Is a talented musician, academic team member, or speech/debate team member necessarily superior to or more valuable than a talented athlete under a holistic admissions approach?

Except that holistic admission shouldn’t be making you check Race Box and using that to discriminate based on race?

Right. Was stated in response to PPs stating that athletes shouldn't be given admissions "tips"/points/preferences.

To clarify, diversity on many different levels can be a goal. The schools shouldn't be using the box to eliminate people bc of their race. However, the schools also are not obligated to rank applicants solely by GPA and test scores.

So rank by race?

For the 100th time, nobody is saying solely use GPA + Tests.
Yes they are.

they who?

People who point to a person's GPA and Test and say they don't belong over other students that have higher SAT and GPA.

Oh no, they also have excellent ECs, Awards, Essaasy, etc., so they don't have to say SAT and GPA only.
So that's the problem. You are mistaken.

Actually, you are mistaken. Many people are arguing if somebody has a higher SAT they think they have a right to be chosen over the lower SAT especially if everything else is equal.

Oh no, many people are arguing an individual should not be discriminated based on race.

But they are using SAT scores to prove they are "discriminated" against.

If black students were getting denied admission while white students with lower scores were getting admitted, you would certainly regard this as proof of racial discrimination.

[Anonymous]

Reading a book and filling in little, tiny bubbles is not hard work. It does indicate somebody that is unable to speak for themselves, does not follow their passion and are afraid of their parents.

This is a dumb racist stereotype of Asians. You are a racist who does not know any actual Asians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Reading a book and filling in little, tiny bubbles is not hard work. It does indicate somebody that is unable to speak for themselves, does not follow their passion and are afraid of their parents.

This is a dumb racist stereotype of Asians. You are a racist who does not know any actual Asians.

I don't think he went to a college.
He's probably a janitor or a construction worker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing says the schools have to pick their students based on academic merit alone. It's not a simple GPA/standardized test score combo that is required to gain admission.

Athletes - If the schools choose to have athletic teams as an activity, why not fill them with decent players? Not shocking. Is a talented musician, academic team member, or speech/debate team member necessarily superior to or more valuable than a talented athlete under a holistic admissions approach?

Except that holistic admission shouldn’t be making you check Race Box and using that to discriminate based on race?

Right. Was stated in response to PPs stating that athletes shouldn't be given admissions "tips"/points/preferences.

To clarify, diversity on many different levels can be a goal. The schools shouldn't be using the box to eliminate people bc of their race. However, the schools also are not obligated to rank applicants solely by GPA and test scores.

So rank by race?

For the 100th time, nobody is saying solely use GPA + Tests.

And nobody is "using the box to eliminate people bc of their race"!!!

We'll find out in the Supreme Court

No, the Supreme Court will decide if the box can be used to INCLUDE people, not exclude them. There's a big difference. The former is Affirmative Action. The latter would be discrimination, and it's not happening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

My Asian friends parents sent them to Cram schools in summer. They actually request the books for next school year then spend 40 hours a week all summer studying. They had pros helping with Essay, SAT tutors. Many their focus was just homework. And they worked as a group helping each other.

This still happens, including "Saturday school."

That’s called hard work. Not “legalized cheating.”

No that is not "hard work". Only "certain people" think of it that way. Colleges want to find unicorns with the SAT not somebody that studied and studied and studied for it.

However colleges may see it, it is still hard work and dedication.

I don't see it as hard work. I see working as a janitor in the morning before school starts, or working all night at a restaurant, or doing construction, caring for you 3 siblings and your sick mother ... hard work.

Do you know what you are even talking about? Spending time to work, read, and to study while others play is definitely hard work. And in case you didn't realize, Asians very often hold down jobs and care for siblings while studying, especially as many are recent immigrants with 2 working parents.

Reading a book and filling in little, tiny bubbles is not hard work. It does indicate somebody that is unable to speak for themselves, does not follow their passion and are afraid of their parents.

All is hard work, some may be by necessity, some optional. The jobs in the first paragraph should be considered. Didn't the Mother Jones article say applicants are not given points for jobs, though? I believe that SES diversity should be and is considered.

Stop saying it's "hard work"... studying is not hard work.

You are an idiot. Obviously cruised through some weaksauce liberal arts program. If you'd majored in STEM, you'd know studying is hard as hell.

I was a STEM major and my job is pretty gravy compared to a chef, or a communications major covering the war. The information is more complex but my brain works that way. I worked longer hours in the computer lab but it wasn’t “hard” work, it was a lot of work.

I think you mean it’s hard to realize your brain is not made for STEM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing says the schools have to pick their students based on academic merit alone. It's not a simple GPA/standardized test score combo that is required to gain admission.

Athletes - If the schools choose to have athletic teams as an activity, why not fill them with decent players? Not shocking. Is a talented musician, academic team member, or speech/debate team member necessarily superior to or more valuable than a talented athlete under a holistic admissions approach?

Except that holistic admission shouldn’t be making you check Race Box and using that to discriminate based on race?

Right. Was stated in response to PPs stating that athletes shouldn't be given admissions "tips"/points/preferences.

To clarify, diversity on many different levels can be a goal. The schools shouldn't be using the box to eliminate people bc of their race. However, the schools also are not obligated to rank applicants solely by GPA and test scores.

So rank by race?

For the 100th time, nobody is saying solely use GPA + Tests.
Yes they are.

they who?

People who point to a person's GPA and Test and say they don't belong over other students that have higher SAT and GPA.

Oh no, they also have excellent ECs, Awards, Essaasy, etc., so they don't have to say SAT and GPA only.
So that's the problem. You are mistaken.

Actually, you are mistaken. Many people are arguing if somebody has a higher SAT they think they have a right to be chosen over the lower SAT especially if everything else is equal.

Oh no, many people are arguing an individual should not be discriminated based on race.

But they are using SAT scores to prove they are "discriminated" against.

If black students were getting denied admission while white students with lower scores were getting admitted, you would certainly regard this as proof of racial discrimination.

No no no. Not if was in pursuit of achieving balance needed for mission and supported by statistics.

There there were nearly no AA students admitted, that would be proof.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Reading a book and filling in little, tiny bubbles is not hard work. It does indicate somebody that is unable to speak for themselves, does not follow their passion and are afraid of their parents.

This is a dumb racist stereotype of Asians. You are a racist who does not know any actual Asians.

Weird I was not talking about Asians, I was talking about test prep which is mostly rich kids.

When I talk about test prep and filling in bubbles do YOU think of Asians? Look who the racist is.

[Anonymous]

This thread has been eye-opening for me (as an Asian person) in terms of how much stereotyping of Asians there is. Racism runs deep.

[Anonymous]

Do the stats change if you take out the sports spots? Those are the ones that have much lower stats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Reading a book and filling in little, tiny bubbles is not hard work. It does indicate somebody that is unable to speak for themselves, does not follow their passion and are afraid of their parents.

This is a dumb racist stereotype of Asians. You are a racist who does not know any actual Asians.

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Please view the chart in this link before spewing anymore nonsense about Asians. Asians score higher than all other races in every category including ECs, recos. Sorry, your kid cannot sit still and fill out bubbles and had to go test optional but Asians are filling bubbles and doing othe activities as well.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/...missions_rates_asian_american/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing says the schools have to pick their students based on academic merit alone. It's not a simple GPA/standardized test score combo that is required to gain admission.

Athletes - If the schools choose to have athletic teams as an activity, why not fill them with decent players? Not shocking. Is a talented musician, academic team member, or speech/debate team member necessarily superior to or more valuable than a talented athlete under a holistic admissions approach?

Except that holistic admission shouldn’t be making you check Race Box and using that to discriminate based on race?

Right. Was stated in response to PPs stating that athletes shouldn't be given admissions "tips"/points/preferences.

To clarify, diversity on many different levels can be a goal. The schools shouldn't be using the box to eliminate people bc of their race. However, the schools also are not obligated to rank applicants solely by GPA and test scores.

So rank by race?

For the 100th time, nobody is saying solely use GPA + Tests.
Yes they are.

they who?

People who point to a person's GPA and Test and say they don't belong over other students that have higher SAT and GPA.

Oh no, they also have excellent ECs, Awards, Essaasy, etc., so they don't have to say SAT and GPA only.
So that's the problem. You are mistaken.

Actually, you are mistaken. Many people are arguing if somebody has a higher SAT they think they have a right to be chosen over the lower SAT especially if everything else is equal.

Oh no, many people are arguing an individual should not be discriminated based on race.

But they are using SAT scores to prove they are "discriminated" against.

If black students were getting denied admission while white students with lower scores were getting admitted, you would certainly regard this as proof of racial discrimination.

No no no. Not if was in pursuit of achieving balance needed for mission and supported by statistics.

There there were nearly no AA students admitted, that would be proof.

But white kids with lower scores are getting in over pretty much everybody.

So no … not claiming discrimination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Reading a book and filling in little, tiny bubbles is not hard work. It does indicate somebody that is unable to speak for themselves, does not follow their passion and are afraid of their parents.

This is a dumb racist stereotype of Asians. You are a racist who does not know any actual Asians.

-----------------------------------

Please view the chart in this link before spewing anymore nonsense about Asians. Asians score higher than all other races in every category including ECs, recos. Sorry, your kid cannot sit still and fill out bubbles and had to go test optional but Asians are filling bubbles and doing othe activities as well.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/...missions_rates_asian_american/

Reddit lol

[Anonymous]

I am new to this forum so quoted the wrong comment above (the one with the link)