College consultant steering DS away from stretch schools
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Anonymous
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DS is a strong student. 4.1 GPA (as a junior) with ACT mock test at 35. Great test taker. Strong ECs but no hook.
He wants to apply to Notre Dame (his dream school). He is drawn to the the Catholic universities. College consultant (one we are paying handsomely) says go ahead with Notre Dame, but admission VERY unlikely. I agree, but she is so negative. She is recommending Fordham, Holy Cross, Villanova, and Boston College and says all of these will not be a sure thing. Frankly, I am kind of deer in the headlights as I always considered Villanova to be a safety school for him. She recommended some safety schools I never heard of. DH also wanted DS to look at some other schools like Duke and others, but now he is gun shy, thinking he isn't strong enough. Is this typical for college consultants, or is she right about his prospects? Do they aim low so that they can say he was admitted to X number of schools that she recommended? |
Anonymous
| What does Naviance have to say about his chances? This does seem pretty negative, but I would want to look at actual admissions stats from your son's school. |
Anonymous
| One thing I noticed about Notre Dame is that they are very into service. If he doesn’t have a strong/continual record on that score, odds go down there in a way they wouldn’t elsewhere. Conversely, if that is where he’s been putting his efforts it probably counts more at ND than elsewhere. |
Anonymous
| He's managing expectations which is smart but I would apply to 2-3 reaches because it really is a bit of a lottery. Also, having gone through this process twice in the past three years, I too was surprised by how much more competitive schools like Villanova have become in the last 25 years. Listen to the consultant because he is the expert and has far more recent experience than you or I, but don't ignore your gut instincts either. Best of luck to you and your son! |
Anonymous
| Tell him to apply and you're happy to pay the fees. I wouldn't pay for BC - huge amount cost wise. Never even heard of Holy Cross. I'd have him apply to a bunch of safe, a few stretch and a few reach. It doesn't hurt to try. |
Anonymous
| What is the unweighted GPA and what kinds of classes is he taking? If a 4.1 is strong then I don't see how some of those schools could be reaches. If the unweighted is 3.5 though, then that's a legit challenge and you should focus on schools that place a premium on high test scores. |
Anonymous
Most important is to find a couple safeties he'd love. I'm sure there are a bunch of schools that would fit that bill -- some of which you may never have hear of! Let the consultant help you find them... 
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Anonymous
| It would be more helpful to know his unweighted GPA and the rigor of his classes. Did he take APs, honors, any college classes? A 4.1 is most likely not going to get your son into Duke. He can always apply to reaches. It is a lot of work, though, to apply to a ton of places because of all the different essays. He should definitely have some safety schools he wouldn't mind going to. If your son's grades and scores are withiin the mid range or lower range of grades and scores for a school, then that school is not a sure thing. A sure thiing is the school where your son's scores and grades are at the top of the range or better. |
Anonymous
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Is he at a Catholic HS? All three of my kids have applied to ND (and gotten in) and it seems like they REALLY like kids from Catholic high schools, especially those who are heavily involved in service (as a PP said).
What is the UW GPA? If it's good, ND seems like a VERY solid match. Of course, once you get to that caliber it can be a crap shoot but I think his chances are very realistic. |
Anonymous
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Although I'm all for aiming high, I wish more people had been realistic with my DS who is currently a senior. Have your DS apply to his dream school and several that are likely, then if he still has the energy and desire to do some more "possible" or "reaches" have him do those. I wish DS had put more energy into the likely and a few possibles, rather than all his energy into possibles and reaches with only one likely. His friends all have acceptances right now while he's sitting with only deferrals or places he hasn't heard from.
The kids with some acceptances early are much happier, and seemed even more motivated to put that one more regular decision application in if their ED was a no or deferral. I wish someone had better explained to my DH how much more competitive the entire process is than it was 30 years ago and that we had encouraged and talked about all the positives of ALL schools, not just the reaches. |
Anonymous
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My kids were also interested in the Catholic colleges. BC, Fordham, Holy Cross and Villanova are as close to sure things as you can get, IMO. I think Notre Dame is very realistic. Of course with 20K applicants for 3500 spots it's a reach for everyone but with his stats I think it's a very good chance.
He could also check out schools like Marquette and SLU. He would get merit aid there. |
Anonymous
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OP here. Thanks so much to everyone for your input so far. To answer the question about unweighted GPA, it is 3.8. He has taken quite a few honors classes and has a couple of APs this year. His school does not offer any APs in freshman year and only one in sophomore year (which he decided against because it is not strong subject for him). He is planning on taking 4 or 5 APs next year. He is at a Catholic HS and has done quite a bit of service including a service trip last summer and another this summer coming up. He is also very involved in the campus ministry. Plays piano at an advanced level. Played some JV sports, but not a super athlete. Is getting involved in drama this year and likes it a lot. Worked on a marketing project for a non profit. So a super full schedule but not a star in one area (not going to be playing varsity sports or a getting a lead part in the play). I think that is why our consultant doesn't think he is a shoe in. Her feeling is that he is spread out in different areas and not focused on one thing? He's kind of quiet and introverted, so I don't know if that is effecting her opinion of him perhaps.
He has yet to meet with his college counselor at school, so it would be interesting to see what he says... |
Anonymous
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What does his school profile about the distributions of GPA at your school? I know that at my kid's public school 36% have GPA's over 4.0 and 12% have GPA's over 4.5, so a 4.1 would probably be about the 75th %ile. According to their Common Data set, 91% of Notre Dame's freshmen are in the top 10th, so he'd be quite a bit lower. However, your high school may have a different distribution of GPA's.
In addition, Notre Dame considers academic rigor to be the #1 factor when admitting students. A kid who takes some honors, rather than all honors, might not make the cut. I know the kids who go to ND from the school where I teach are kids who are in all honors, and lots of AP's and still near the very top of the class. Given that, it sounds like the counselor is being realistic. The 4 schools they mention are great schools, and not easy to get into either. And there are plenty of great Catholic schools that can be safeties. |
Anonymous
| She wants to have "acceptances" and not "rejects". So she is pushing your DD to aim lower so her (consultant) success rate will be higher. |
Anonymous
The general thought about extra-curriculars is that it is important to show depth or passion and a long term commitment to something meaningful to the student. Service trips (that you pay for) are not well regarded by admissions counselors so I would honestly have him do something else for the summer, or just accept that this is basically a summer camp for an older kid. I think the counselor is giving you good advice. |