College consultant steering DS away from stretch schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does his school profile about the distributions of GPA at your school? I know that at my kid's public school 36% have GPA's over 4.0 and 12% have GPA's over 4.5, so a 4.1 would probably be about the 75th %ile. According to their Common Data set, 91% of Notre Dame's freshmen are in the top 10th, so he'd be quite a bit lower. However, your high school may have a different distribution of GPA's.

In addition, Notre Dame considers academic rigor to be the #1 factor when admitting students. A kid who takes some honors, rather than all honors, might not make the cut. I know the kids who go to ND from the school where I teach are kids who are in all honors, and lots of AP's and still near the very top of the class.

Given that, it sounds like the counselor is being realistic. The 4 schools they mention are great schools, and not easy to get into either. And there are plenty of great Catholic schools that can be safeties.

OP here. I don't think any junior in his school has a 4.5. I believe it would be impossible based on the course offerings and GPA weighting. Also, the weighting in your DC's school is likely more aggressive (probably 5 for honors and APs) than my DS's which is only 4.5 for honors. DS has lots of friends in our local public high school and they all took lots of APS in freshman and sophomore year. That simply was not an option for my DS. I am fairly certain DS is most likely in top 10% vs the top 25% you predict, but not sure how to find that out honestly.

Also to answer the question someone else asked, in the last four years, 18 students matriculated to ND from his school. I imagine there were more acceptances than that, but that is how many actually ended up going there.

Thanks again.

Here's the college profile for your kid's school (unless there's another Catholic high school that accepts boys and has had 18 kids matriculate to N.D.. Seems unlikely).

https://gonzaga.myschoolapp.com/ftpimages/1021/download/download_2405506.pdf

Gonzaga does, in fact, give a whole quality point for AP's and courses considered "Advanced".

I can't find their grade distribution, but it's listed on kids' transcripts so you could just ask for one of those for your son.

Gonzaga has a reputation for great college counseling, so I would see what the counselor there says.

I'm not saying your kid shouldn't apply to ND. I'm just saying that it's helpful to apply to a variety of schools, with a variety of different levels of stretch. Having some true safeties, and some reaches, and a bunch in the middle makes sense. ND is a reach. Doesn't mean he shouldn't go for it, but his applications should be balanced.

You are right. 5 for AP but only 4.5 for honors. The public’s all give 5 for both honors and APs. I think that is what the OP was trying to convey.

[Anonymous]

I guess I don’t see what the harm in applying to ND is. He shouldn’t get his hopes up (but then again ND is SO competitive that even a 4.0/36 kid shouldn’t either- seriously, it can be such a crapshoot) but i think he’s certainly within the range of what they accept.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guess I don’t see what the harm in applying to ND is. He shouldn’t get his hopes up (but then again ND is SO competitive that even a 4.0/36 kid shouldn’t either- seriously, it can be such a crapshoot) but i think he’s certainly within the range of what they accept.

No one has said that he shouldn't apply. The consultant, and many people here, have said that it's a reach and he should balance it with schools that are matches (e.g. Fordham, Villanova) and safeties.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, but I think your consultant -- who you should stop paying -- and 20:04 are wrong and I speak from recent experience. Keep doing what he's doing and apply EA widely, including ND.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does his school profile about the distributions of GPA at your school? I know that at my kid's public school 36% have GPA's over 4.0 and 12% have GPA's over 4.5, so a 4.1 would probably be about the 75th %ile. According to their Common Data set, 91% of Notre Dame's freshmen are in the top 10th, so he'd be quite a bit lower. However, your high school may have a different distribution of GPA's.

In addition, Notre Dame considers academic rigor to be the #1 factor when admitting students. A kid who takes some honors, rather than all honors, might not make the cut. I know the kids who go to ND from the school where I teach are kids who are in all honors, and lots of AP's and still near the very top of the class.

Given that, it sounds like the counselor is being realistic. The 4 schools they mention are great schools, and not easy to get into either. And there are plenty of great Catholic schools that can be safeties.

OP here. I don't think any junior in his school has a 4.5. I believe it would be impossible based on the course offerings and GPA weighting. Also, the weighting in your DC's school is likely more aggressive (probably 5 for honors and APs) than my DS's which is only 4.5 for honors. DS has lots of friends in our local public high school and they all took lots of APS in freshman and sophomore year. That simply was not an option for my DS. I am fairly certain DS is most likely in top 10% vs the top 25% you predict, but not sure how to find that out honestly.

Also to answer the question someone else asked, in the last four years, 18 students matriculated to ND from his school. I imagine there were more acceptances than that, but that is how many actually ended up going there.

Thanks again.

Here's the college profile for your kid's school (unless there's another Catholic high school that accepts boys and has had 18 kids matriculate to N.D.. Seems unlikely).

https://gonzaga.myschoolapp.com/ftpimages/1021/download/download_2405506.pdf

Gonzaga does, in fact, give a whole quality point for AP's and courses considered "Advanced".

I can't find their grade distribution, but it's listed on kids' transcripts so you could just ask for one of those for your son.

Gonzaga has a reputation for great college counseling, so I would see what the counselor there says.

I'm not saying your kid shouldn't apply to ND. I'm just saying that it's helpful to apply to a variety of schools, with a variety of different levels of stretch. Having some true safeties, and some reaches, and a bunch in the middle makes sense. ND is a reach. Doesn't mean he shouldn't go for it, but his applications should be balanced.

You are right. 5 for AP but only 4.5 for honors. The public’s all give 5 for both honors and APs. I think that is what the OP was trying to convey.

Our public school doesn't give a 5 for honors. It only gives it for AP and post -AP classes.

[Anonymous]

OP: Your high school will send a fact sheet to each college explaining their grading, GPA, number of APs etc. Ask your GC to see this sheet. It will help you to understand where your DS lies within the class. Also, you can ask your GC where your DS ranks wi regard to his GPA. This will give you some perspective. Why haven't you met/scheduled a meeting with the GC?

When it comes to applications, it is YOUR choice not the college counselor. Your counselor is trying to be realistic. Everyone has a dream school, few gain acceptance. Probably, a percentage of the kids at ND wanted HPY. Most importantly, the application list needs to be balanced.

[Anonymous]

Notes Dame had a 19% acceptance rate last year...your child definitely has a chance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, but I think your consultant -- who you should stop paying -- and 20:04 are wrong and I speak from recent experience. Keep doing what he's doing and apply EA widely, including ND.

Apply widely including ND is what the college consultant is saying.

[Anonymous]

Holy Cross is a great school. It was actually my first choice after an athletic visit when I was applying to school, but they didn’t offer a competitive enough package with what my other schools did. Don’t discourage schools because you’re hung up on an impressive name to tell your friends.

[Anonymous]

Hopefully, you have scheduled SAT, ACTs and subject tests if needed. ALL of this discussion is moot until you have hard numbers.

[Anonymous]

"I am a college consultant and am not working with your son. Here is my honest take- most parents are wildly overconfident about their children’s chances. I can’t emphasize enough how crazy this process has gotten. In the last year alone, there have been major changes that have impacted the selectivity of schools like Villanova, for instance. Did you know that the EA acceptance rate at Villanova LAST YEAR was 58 pc and now it is 28 pc? We are talking a thirty point drop in ONE YEAR!"

Our neighbors son had similar stats, but at seemingly a weaker HS, to the OP's son and got hit by that 30% drop at his first choice Villanova. Scrambled for other choices and only got into two safety schools.

We took that too seriously, and although not applying to Catholic schools, applied to mostly safeties, 2 stretches and a reach. DC got in every where and now is deciding between 8 schools.

Our bottom line was to find ALL the schools that could possibly be desirable. Now we have a difficult but not truly painful decision to make.

Good luck OP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She wants to have "acceptances" and not "rejects". So she is pushing your DD to aim lower so her (consultant) success rate will be higher.

This. Change consultants or use your HS counselor. Your kid sounds great.

Best wishes.

[Anonymous]

^ I agree except you do not have to change consultants - - just consider it advice, it's useful, then act as you think best. Apply widely.

[Anonymous]

FWIW, dream schools are easy to identify and, sure, let him apply if you can afford to send him. The challenge, as at least one PP has already pointed out, is finding great safeties. Focus on that. The other challenge may be where to apply early. Once you have the longer list, that’s a discussion worth having with both counselors. Rules and benefits of early apps are school-specific. My one piece of advice here is diversify apps in the early round(s) as much as you can. Getting rejected from a dream school right before Xmas and then waiting months for any other results to come in sucks. So check to see which schools on his list offer early notification, rolling admissions, ED2, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"I am a college consultant and am not working with your son. Here is my honest take- most parents are wildly overconfident about their children’s chances. I can’t emphasize enough how crazy this process has gotten. In the last year alone, there have been major changes that have impacted the selectivity of schools like Villanova, for instance. Did you know that the EA acceptance rate at Villanova LAST YEAR was 58 pc and now it is 28 pc? We are talking a thirty point drop in ONE YEAR!"

Our neighbors son had similar stats, but at seemingly a weaker HS, to the OP's son and got hit by that 30% drop at his first choice Villanova. Scrambled for other choices and only got into two safety schools.

We took that too seriously, and although not applying to Catholic schools, applied to mostly safeties, 2 stretches and a reach. DC got in every where and now is deciding between 8 schools.

Our bottom line was to find ALL the schools that could possibly be desirable. Now we have a difficult but not truly painful decision to make.

Good luck OP

I don't understand this strategy. If a safety is truly a safety (meaning that you are nearly certain of admission and like it well enough to attend, and can afford based on NPC), then one doesn't need to apply to many. One or two should do. Most applications should be to schools where the outcome is uncertain. This can include schools where you are not certain of admission, or schools where admission may be fairly certain, but you are hoping for scholarships.