College consultant steering DS away from stretch schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:College Consultants are risk adverse. They want no surprises - - no upsetting, negative surprises. They manage expectations because it's good for them. They look better, and get better reviews/referrals when you, instead, are grateful when results come in.

This reminds me of the research in Freakonomics that was done on real estate agents' choice of list prices. The focus was on the agents' cost-benefit analysis for listing a home at a higher price. Higher-priced home listings and stretch school applications are each more risky and more labor intensive for the agent/consultant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"I am a college consultant and am not working with your son. Here is my honest take- most parents are wildly overconfident about their children’s chances. I can’t emphasize enough how crazy this process has gotten. In the last year alone, there have been major changes that have impacted the selectivity of schools like Villanova, for instance. Did you know that the EA acceptance rate at Villanova LAST YEAR was 58 pc and now it is 28 pc? We are talking a thirty point drop in ONE YEAR!"

Our neighbors son had similar stats, but at seemingly a weaker HS, to the OP's son and got hit by that 30% drop at his first choice Villanova. Scrambled for other choices and only got into two safety schools.

We took that too seriously, and although not applying to Catholic schools, applied to mostly safeties, 2 stretches and a reach. DC got in every where and now is deciding between 8 schools.

Our bottom line was to find ALL the schools that could possibly be desirable. Now we have a difficult but not truly painful decision to make.

Good luck OP

May all life's troubles be this hard. Congratulations to your son.

So restrict your choices to the three top ones, and then there's just three, right?

My son also did better than expected, and better than our consultant expected (got $$ at his reach and not at his safety of all things). Perhaps our children put together really nice applications? (organized, tight essays? nice recommendations?)

[Anonymous]

OP - Why don't you go the consultant's recommendations but in addition also insist that you want to apply to a few other colleges of your choice and that you expect her to fully support that process. After all you are paying her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a college consultant and am not working with your son. Here is my honest take- most parents are wildly overconfident about their children’s chances. I can’t emphasize enough how crazy this process has gotten. In the last year alone, there have been major changes that have impacted the selectivity of schools like Villanova, for instance. Did you know that the EA acceptance rate at Villanova LAST YEAR was 58 pc and now it is 28 pc? We are talking a thirty point drop in ONE YEAR!

I’m using caps to try to explain how absurd this has gotten and how much things can and do change on a dime.

You do not know this because you are not an expert in this field. Your consultant (hopefully) IS an expert and that is why you hired her. The other moms on dcum who don’t know any more than you do are not experts.

Two other points:

- ND is not doable for a student from the DC metro without straight As in the most challenging courses, full stop. Maybe a B+ or A- here or there. Given what you said about the unweighted GPA, your son is not in the ballpark there. Don’t be fooled by a 4.0+ gpa- do you know how many kids have GPAs above a 4.0? All the weighting inflates GPAs.

-Your consultant could care less about her statistics. Why should she care what percentage get in to their top choice school or not? No higher authority is assessing her performance, like a school counselor might face. And if it’s a random statistic on her website, she could just make it up if it’s that important. I assure you, she is not screwing your kid over so that she can report a BS statistic to future clients.

Hi Consultant.

Can I kindly suggest you watch your tone? I would never ever hire you because you seem like a condescending person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a college consultant and am not working with your son. Here is my honest take- most parents are wildly overconfident about their children’s chances. I can’t emphasize enough how crazy this process has gotten. In the last year alone, there have been major changes that have impacted the selectivity of schools like Villanova, for instance. Did you know that the EA acceptance rate at Villanova LAST YEAR was 58 pc and now it is 28 pc? We are talking a thirty point drop in ONE YEAR!

I’m using caps to try to explain how absurd this has gotten and how much things can and do change on a dime.

You do not know this because you are not an expert in this field. Your consultant (hopefully) IS an expert and that is why you hired her. The other moms on dcum who don’t know any more than you do are not experts.

Two other points:

- ND is not doable for a student from the DC metro without straight As in the most challenging courses, full stop. Maybe a B+ or A- here or there. Given what you said about the unweighted GPA, your son is not in the ballpark there. Don’t be fooled by a 4.0+ gpa- do you know how many kids have GPAs above a 4.0? All the weighting inflates GPAs.

-Your consultant could care less about her statistics. Why should she care what percentage get in to their top choice school or not? No higher authority is assessing her performance, like a school counselor might face. And if it’s a random statistic on her website, she could just make it up if it’s that important. I assure you, she is not screwing your kid over so that she can report a BS statistic to future clients.

Hi Consultant.

Can I kindly suggest you watch your tone? I would never ever hire you because you seem like a condescending person.

Wait, who sounds like a condescending person?

[Anonymous]

What does your son want to study and why is ND his current dream school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She wants to have "acceptances" and not "rejects". So she is pushing your DD to aim lower so her (consultant) success rate will be higher.

This. Change consultants or use your HS counselor. Your kid sounds great.

Best wishes.

So we consider a college counselor whose clients get accepted to be a bad thing now?

It seems like she's offering a prudent strategy. Apply to a wide variety of schools, don't get your heart set on one top school, make sure you have some true safeties. Why would you fire someone for that.

[Anonymous]

If it's Catholic schools that he interest him, there are others to consider. And if he can name the specific things about a Catholic school that interest him, that's even better. I work for a Catholic organization and connect with professors at lots of Catholic universities, not just ND.

How about considering Marquette, Duquesne, Loyola Chicago, or Creighton.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does his school profile about the distributions of GPA at your school? I know that at my kid's public school 36% have GPA's over 4.0 and 12% have GPA's over 4.5, so a 4.1 would probably be about the 75th %ile. According to their Common Data set, 91% of Notre Dame's freshmen are in the top 10th, so he'd be quite a bit lower. However, your high school may have a different distribution of GPA's.

In addition, Notre Dame considers academic rigor to be the #1 factor when admitting students. A kid who takes some honors, rather than all honors, might not make the cut. I know the kids who go to ND from the school where I teach are kids who are in all honors, and lots of AP's and still near the very top of the class.

Given that, it sounds like the counselor is being realistic. The 4 schools they mention are great schools, and not easy to get into either. And there are plenty of great Catholic schools that can be safeties.

OP here. I don't think any junior in his school has a 4.5. I believe it would be impossible based on the course offerings and GPA weighting. Also, the weighting in your DC's school is likely more aggressive (probably 5 for honors and APs) than my DS's which is only 4.5 for honors. DS has lots of friends in our local public high school and they all took lots of APS in freshman and sophomore year. That simply was not an option for my DS. I am fairly certain DS is most likely in top 10% vs the top 25% you predict, but not sure how to find that out honestly.

Also to answer the question someone else asked, in the last four years, 18 students matriculated to ND from his school. I imagine there were more acceptances than that, but that is how many actually ended up going there.

Thanks again.

Here's the college profile for your kid's school (unless there's another Catholic high school that accepts boys and has had 18 kids matriculate to N.D.. Seems unlikely).

https://gonzaga.myschoolapp.com/ftpimages/1021/download/download_2405506.pdf

Gonzaga does, in fact, give a whole quality point for AP's and courses considered "Advanced".

I can't find their grade distribution, but it's listed on kids' transcripts so you could just ask for one of those for your son.

Gonzaga has a reputation for great college counseling, so I would see what the counselor there says.

I'm not saying your kid shouldn't apply to ND. I'm just saying that it's helpful to apply to a variety of schools, with a variety of different levels of stretch. Having some true safeties, and some reaches, and a bunch in the middle makes sense. ND is a reach. Doesn't mean he shouldn't go for it, but his applications should be balanced.

You are right. 5 for AP but only 4.5 for honors. The public’s all give 5 for both honors and APs. I think that is what the OP was trying to convey.

This is incorrect. FCPS gives a .5 bump for honors and a full point bump for AP/IB

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a college consultant and am not working with your son. Here is my honest take- most parents are wildly overconfident about their children’s chances. I can’t emphasize enough how crazy this process has gotten. In the last year alone, there have been major changes that have impacted the selectivity of schools like Villanova, for instance. Did you know that the EA acceptance rate at Villanova LAST YEAR was 58 pc and now it is 28 pc? We are talking a thirty point drop in ONE YEAR!

I’m using caps to try to explain how absurd this has gotten and how much things can and do change on a dime.

You do not know this because you are not an expert in this field. Your consultant (hopefully) IS an expert and that is why you hired her. The other moms on dcum who don’t know any more than you do are not experts.

Two other points:

- ND is not doable for a student from the DC metro without straight As in the most challenging courses, full stop. Maybe a B+ or A- here or there. Given what you said about the unweighted GPA, your son is not in the ballpark there. Don’t be fooled by a 4.0+ gpa- do you know how many kids have GPAs above a 4.0? All the weighting inflates GPAs.

-Your consultant could care less about her statistics. Why should she care what percentage get in to their top choice school or not? No higher authority is assessing her performance, like a school counselor might face. And if it’s a random statistic on her website, she could just make it up if it’s that important. I assure you, she is not screwing your kid over so that she can report a BS statistic to future clients.

Hi Consultant.

Can I kindly suggest you watch your tone? I would never ever hire you because you seem like a condescending person.

You must be monstrously insecure because nothing about the consultant's post was condescending in the least.

[Anonymous]

To the consultant:

My child was accepted into ND with a weighted 3.4 GPA and 34 ACT. We are private school and took rigorous courses but she was no means the top 10% or getting all A’s.

This was 2 years ago. It was too expensive though so she didn’t go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does his school profile about the distributions of GPA at your school? I know that at my kid's public school 36% have GPA's over 4.0 and 12% have GPA's over 4.5, so a 4.1 would probably be about the 75th %ile. According to their Common Data set, 91% of Notre Dame's freshmen are in the top 10th, so he'd be quite a bit lower. However, your high school may have a different distribution of GPA's.

In addition, Notre Dame considers academic rigor to be the #1 factor when admitting students. A kid who takes some honors, rather than all honors, might not make the cut. I know the kids who go to ND from the school where I teach are kids who are in all honors, and lots of AP's and still near the very top of the class.

Given that, it sounds like the counselor is being realistic. The 4 schools they mention are great schools, and not easy to get into either. And there are plenty of great Catholic schools that can be safeties.

OP here. I don't think any junior in his school has a 4.5. I believe it would be impossible based on the course offerings and GPA weighting. Also, the weighting in your DC's school is likely more aggressive (probably 5 for honors and APs) than my DS's which is only 4.5 for honors. DS has lots of friends in our local public high school and they all took lots of APS in freshman and sophomore year. That simply was not an option for my DS. I am fairly certain DS is most likely in top 10% vs the top 25% you predict, but not sure how to find that out honestly.

Also to answer the question someone else asked, in the last four years, 18 students matriculated to ND from his school. I imagine there were more acceptances than that, but that is how many actually ended up going there.

Thanks again.

Here's the college profile for your kid's school (unless there's another Catholic high school that accepts boys and has had 18 kids matriculate to N.D.. Seems unlikely).

https://gonzaga.myschoolapp.com/ftpimages/1021/download/download_2405506.pdf

Gonzaga does, in fact, give a whole quality point for AP's and courses considered "Advanced".

I can't find their grade distribution, but it's listed on kids' transcripts so you could just ask for one of those for your son.

Gonzaga has a reputation for great college counseling, so I would see what the counselor there says.

I'm not saying your kid shouldn't apply to ND. I'm just saying that it's helpful to apply to a variety of schools, with a variety of different levels of stretch. Having some true safeties, and some reaches, and a bunch in the middle makes sense. ND is a reach. Doesn't mean he shouldn't go for it, but his applications should be balanced.

You are right. 5 for AP but only 4.5 for honors. The public’s all give 5 for both honors and APs. I think that is what the OP was trying to convey.

This is incorrect. FCPS gives a .5 bump for honors and a full point bump for AP/IB

MCPS gives a full point for both honors and AP courses. You have to be pretty stupid to not have a super high GPA. That said, it is inflated and the colleges know that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does his school profile about the distributions of GPA at your school? I know that at my kid's public school 36% have GPA's over 4.0 and 12% have GPA's over 4.5, so a 4.1 would probably be about the 75th %ile. According to their Common Data set, 91% of Notre Dame's freshmen are in the top 10th, so he'd be quite a bit lower. However, your high school may have a different distribution of GPA's.

In addition, Notre Dame considers academic rigor to be the #1 factor when admitting students. A kid who takes some honors, rather than all honors, might not make the cut. I know the kids who go to ND from the school where I teach are kids who are in all honors, and lots of AP's and still near the very top of the class.

Given that, it sounds like the counselor is being realistic. The 4 schools they mention are great schools, and not easy to get into either. And there are plenty of great Catholic schools that can be safeties.

OP here. I don't think any junior in his school has a 4.5. I believe it would be impossible based on the course offerings and GPA weighting. Also, the weighting in your DC's school is likely more aggressive (probably 5 for honors and APs) than my DS's which is only 4.5 for honors. DS has lots of friends in our local public high school and they all took lots of APS in freshman and sophomore year. That simply was not an option for my DS. I am fairly certain DS is most likely in top 10% vs the top 25% you predict, but not sure how to find that out honestly.

Also to answer the question someone else asked, in the last four years, 18 students matriculated to ND from his school. I imagine there were more acceptances than that, but that is how many actually ended up going there.

Thanks again.

Here's the college profile for your kid's school (unless there's another Catholic high school that accepts boys and has had 18 kids matriculate to N.D.. Seems unlikely).

https://gonzaga.myschoolapp.com/ftpimages/1021/download/download_2405506.pdf

Gonzaga does, in fact, give a whole quality point for AP's and courses considered "Advanced".

I can't find their grade distribution, but it's listed on kids' transcripts so you could just ask for one of those for your son.

Gonzaga has a reputation for great college counseling, so I would see what the counselor there says.

I'm not saying your kid shouldn't apply to ND. I'm just saying that it's helpful to apply to a variety of schools, with a variety of different levels of stretch. Having some true safeties, and some reaches, and a bunch in the middle makes sense. ND is a reach. Doesn't mean he shouldn't go for it, but his applications should be balanced.

You are right. 5 for AP but only 4.5 for honors. The public’s all give 5 for both honors and APs. I think that is what the OP was trying to convey.

This is incorrect. FCPS gives a .5 bump for honors and a full point bump for AP/IB

MCPS gives a full point for both honors and AP courses. You have to be pretty stupid to not have a super high GPA. That said, it is inflated and the colleges know that.

Couple this with the fact that the kids at MCPS W schools take a crazy number of APs.

[Anonymous]

My advice (DH teaches at ND) is to have your son take the "Why Notre Dame" essay very seriously, and don't have it be about football!

[Anonymous]

OP's child is competing for admission to Notre Dame first and foremost with other kids from his class at Gonzaga.

They will take a certain number of students from that high school each year and your student needs to be at or near the top of the group of students in his class that decide to apply to ND.

The experience of a male or female student from MCPS or Fairfax or Sidwell or Holy Cross or St Johns is interesting, but not really relevant.