I can't breathe . . . Minneapolis police kill a man in broad daylight

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know the standard procedure for cases like this? I would think the cops should have been arrested by now since there is a video evidence, I don't understand whey they are still out.

During the press conference yesterday, the prosecutor made the statement that there is evidence that the actions by the police may not have been criminal. I have no idea what he meant and no idea what evidence he is speaking of, but they were very firm in that they don't want this situation to end with a rushed arrest and prosecution.

Here is a reporter's tweet about it:

They wouldn't hesitate to arrest you, if you did that to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know the standard procedure for cases like this? I would think the cops should have been arrested by now since there is a video evidence, I don't understand whey they are still out.

During the press conference yesterday, the prosecutor made the statement that there is evidence that the actions by the police may not have been criminal. I have no idea what he meant and no idea what evidence he is speaking of, but they were very firm in that they don't want this situation to end with a rushed arrest and prosecution.

Here is a reporter's tweet about it:

They wouldn't hesitate to arrest you, if you did that to me.

But I'm not a police officer on duty. That matters.

[Anonymous]

I am sorry, but it is funny that the looters wore masks and seemed to social distance. Lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am sorry, but it is funny that the looters wore masks and seemed to social distance. Lol.

This is even funnier....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What was cop and guy killed doing that ended up with cop killing him by crushing his neck?

Has any actual evidence been reported confirming the cause of death, i.e., strangulation, asphyxia, cervical dislocation, asthma, myocardial infarction, narcotics? As opposed to post hoc ergo propter hoc conclusions?

The cop in question was a major-league foul ball who should have been off the force years ago.

The rioting, burning, looting and the rest are absolutely unacceptable.

Let me come sit with my knee on your neck for 10 minutes and see if you're alive to debate whether my knee was the cause of any problems that result.

Yeah. That’s not how it works. And you don’t seem to know much about anatomy.

Adding: and from the violent, threatening, and personal time of your response, it would appear that the answer to the question is “no,” and it really pisses you off that anyone would dare question your unsupported, conclusory opinion.

I'm not threatening you. I have no idea who you are. I was demonstrating how ridiculous your logic is. If someone sits with their knee on someone's neck for 10 minutes, that person will likely suffocate. It's common sense.

Things are not that simple. To suffocate an individual would require compression of the windpipe, which is difficult with lateral pressure, particularly in a large, muscular individual. The photos do seem to show the cop’s knee near to/on the right carotid, but carotid compression would black the individual out, not cause them to complain they could not breathe. The more likely explanation would appear to be positional asphyxia, the chest compressed by the individual’s own weight and that of the police to the point where lung expansion becomes progressively more difficult and then impossible. Drug/alcohol intoxication would exacerbate this. The possibility remains, however, that death was from the drugs/alcohol, a heart attack, asthma or another idiopathic cause. Coincidence in time between action and result does not equal causation. However bad the cop’s use of force might have looked or been, it is important to know what actually happened.

An overarching problem here and in other well known cases is the appalling lack of correspondence between the alleged precipitating offense (counterfeit money) and the end result (death). The man in New York accused of selling loose cigarettes and then choked to death Is another example, as is the mentally ill man accused of stealing car radios but then beaten to death by police. It’s not realistic to expect police to just let arrestees walk away if they refuse to cooperate, but there needs to be some middle ground where people don’t get killed over minor crimes. Police in many jurisdictions have abandoned the “win at all costs” attitude toward high speed pursuits, reserving them for only the most serious offenders. Street policing needs something like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What was cop and guy killed doing that ended up with cop killing him by crushing his neck?

Has any actual evidence been reported confirming the cause of death, i.e., strangulation, asphyxia, cervical dislocation, asthma, myocardial infarction, narcotics? As opposed to post hoc ergo propter hoc conclusions?

The cop in question was a major-league foul ball who should have been off the force years ago.

The rioting, burning, looting and the rest are absolutely unacceptable.

Let me come sit with my knee on your neck for 10 minutes and see if you're alive to debate whether my knee was the cause of any problems that result.

Yeah. That’s not how it works. And you don’t seem to know much about anatomy.

Adding: and from the violent, threatening, and personal time of your response, it would appear that the answer to the question is “no,” and it really pisses you off that anyone would dare question your unsupported, conclusory opinion.

I'm not threatening you. I have no idea who you are. I was demonstrating how ridiculous your logic is. If someone sits with their knee on someone's neck for 10 minutes, that person will likely suffocate. It's common sense.

Things are not that simple. To suffocate an individual would require compression of the windpipe, which is difficult with lateral pressure, particularly in a large, muscular individual. The photos do seem to show the cop’s knee near to/on the right carotid, but carotid compression would black the individual out, not cause them to complain they could not breathe. The more likely explanation would appear to be positional asphyxia, the chest compressed by the individual’s own weight and that of the police to the point where lung expansion becomes progressively more difficult and then impossible. Drug/alcohol intoxication would exacerbate this. The possibility remains, however, that death was from the drugs/alcohol, a heart attack, asthma or another idiopathic cause. Coincidence in time between action and result does not equal causation. However bad the cop’s use of force might have looked or been, it is important to know what actually happened.

An overarching problem here and in other well known cases is the appalling lack of correspondence between the alleged precipitating offense (counterfeit money) and the end result (death). The man in New York accused of selling loose cigarettes and then choked to death Is another example, as is the mentally ill man accused of stealing car radios but then beaten to death by police. It’s not realistic to expect police to just let arrestees walk away if they refuse to cooperate, but there needs to be some middle ground where people don’t get killed over minor crimes. Police in many jurisdictions have abandoned the “win at all costs” attitude toward high speed pursuits, reserving them for only the most serious offenders. Street policing needs something like that.

Agree with everything here. The autopsy results are going to be very important here from a legal standpoint.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What was cop and guy killed doing that ended up with cop killing him by crushing his neck?

Has any actual evidence been reported confirming the cause of death, i.e., strangulation, asphyxia, cervical dislocation, asthma, myocardial infarction, narcotics? As opposed to post hoc ergo propter hoc conclusions?

The cop in question was a major-league foul ball who should have been off the force years ago.

The rioting, burning, looting and the rest are absolutely unacceptable.

Let me come sit with my knee on your neck for 10 minutes and see if you're alive to debate whether my knee was the cause of any problems that result.

Yeah. That’s not how it works. And you don’t seem to know much about anatomy.

Adding: and from the violent, threatening, and personal time of your response, it would appear that the answer to the question is “no,” and it really pisses you off that anyone would dare question your unsupported, conclusory opinion.

I'm not threatening you. I have no idea who you are. I was demonstrating how ridiculous your logic is. If someone sits with their knee on someone's neck for 10 minutes, that person will likely suffocate. It's common sense.

Things are not that simple. To suffocate an individual would require compression of the windpipe, which is difficult with lateral pressure, particularly in a large, muscular individual. The photos do seem to show the cop’s knee near to/on the right carotid, but carotid compression would black the individual out, not cause them to complain they could not breathe. The more likely explanation would appear to be positional asphyxia, the chest compressed by the individual’s own weight and that of the police to the point where lung expansion becomes progressively more difficult and then impossible. Drug/alcohol intoxication would exacerbate this. The possibility remains, however, that death was from the drugs/alcohol, a heart attack, asthma or another idiopathic cause. Coincidence in time between action and result does not equal causation. However bad the cop’s use of force might have looked or been, it is important to know what actually happened.

An overarching problem here and in other well known cases is the appalling lack of correspondence between the alleged precipitating offense (counterfeit money) and the end result (death). The man in New York accused of selling loose cigarettes and then choked to death Is another example, as is the mentally ill man accused of stealing car radios but then beaten to death by police. It’s not realistic to expect police to just let arrestees walk away if they refuse to cooperate, but there needs to be some middle ground where people don’t get killed over minor crimes. Police in many jurisdictions have abandoned the “win at all costs” attitude toward high speed pursuits, reserving them for only the most serious offenders. Street policing needs something like that.

Yep. It is more likely here that he had a spontaneous heart attack or drug overdose that led to his death. Ignore the grown ass man sitting on his neck. Don't believe your eyes, believe me!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What was cop and guy killed doing that ended up with cop killing him by crushing his neck?

Has any actual evidence been reported confirming the cause of death, i.e., strangulation, asphyxia, cervical dislocation, asthma, myocardial infarction, narcotics? As opposed to post hoc ergo propter hoc conclusions?

The cop in question was a major-league foul ball who should have been off the force years ago.

The rioting, burning, looting and the rest are absolutely unacceptable.

Let me come sit with my knee on your neck for 10 minutes and see if you're alive to debate whether my knee was the cause of any problems that result.

Yeah. That’s not how it works. And you don’t seem to know much about anatomy.

Adding: and from the violent, threatening, and personal time of your response, it would appear that the answer to the question is “no,” and it really pisses you off that anyone would dare question your unsupported, conclusory opinion.

I'm not threatening you. I have no idea who you are. I was demonstrating how ridiculous your logic is. If someone sits with their knee on someone's neck for 10 minutes, that person will likely suffocate. It's common sense.

Things are not that simple. To suffocate an individual would require compression of the windpipe, which is difficult with lateral pressure, particularly in a large, muscular individual. The photos do seem to show the cop’s knee near to/on the right carotid, but carotid compression would black the individual out, not cause them to complain they could not breathe. The more likely explanation would appear to be positional asphyxia, the chest compressed by the individual’s own weight and that of the police to the point where lung expansion becomes progressively more difficult and then impossible. Drug/alcohol intoxication would exacerbate this. The possibility remains, however, that death was from the drugs/alcohol, a heart attack, asthma or another idiopathic cause. Coincidence in time between action and result does not equal causation. However bad the cop’s use of force might have looked or been, it is important to know what actually happened.

An overarching problem here and in other well known cases is the appalling lack of correspondence between the alleged precipitating offense (counterfeit money) and the end result (death). The man in New York accused of selling loose cigarettes and then choked to death Is another example, as is the mentally ill man accused of stealing car radios but then beaten to death by police. It’s not realistic to expect police to just let arrestees walk away if they refuse to cooperate, but there needs to be some middle ground where people don’t get killed over minor crimes. Police in many jurisdictions have abandoned the “win at all costs” attitude toward high speed pursuits, reserving them for only the most serious offenders. Street policing needs something like that.

Yep. It is more likely here that he had a spontaneous heart attack or drug overdose that led to his death. Ignore the grown ass man sitting on his neck. Don't believe your eyes, believe me!

Where did ANYONE say that is more likely? The poster is simply saying that, from a legal and medical standpoint, these are possibilities of what happened and they will be brought up in court. So the autopsy results are going to be important from a legal standpoint.

[Anonymous]

Instead of helping people that really need protection, they do this shit to an innocent man. Disgusting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My BIL and FIL are cops. They aren't exactly racist but they have three categories for people: dirtbags, potential dirtbags, and non-dirtbags. A person's race is fairly irrelevant.

They are generally meatheads (both have college degrees and one's a former naval officer but meatheads all the same) and they are somewhat tiresome to be around.

That said, they have discussed cop problems:

There are two basic categories of problem cops: (1) violent cops like this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver
and (2) fearful cops.

They aren't seeing a rise in category 1. Those cops are there and always will be and they are a serious problem. But, its category 2 that's more of a problem. They are seeing more fearful cops. Police officers, both men and women, who aren't secure enough, confident enough, and spook easily. These are the cops who are more likely to use the tasers. Some of them might be more likely to shoot. Despite the terrible news, cop shootings are relatively rare on a per cop interaction basis. Obviously they should be even more rare.

They think that police departments need to stop protecting these cops and police unions need to stop defending them.

Then what are they?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What was cop and guy killed doing that ended up with cop killing him by crushing his neck?

Has any actual evidence been reported confirming the cause of death, i.e., strangulation, asphyxia, cervical dislocation, asthma, myocardial infarction, narcotics? As opposed to post hoc ergo propter hoc conclusions?

The cop in question was a major-league foul ball who should have been off the force years ago.

The rioting, burning, looting and the rest are absolutely unacceptable.

Let me come sit with my knee on your neck for 10 minutes and see if you're alive to debate whether my knee was the cause of any problems that result.

Yeah. That’s not how it works. And you don’t seem to know much about anatomy.

Adding: and from the violent, threatening, and personal time of your response, it would appear that the answer to the question is “no,” and it really pisses you off that anyone would dare question your unsupported, conclusory opinion.

I'm not threatening you. I have no idea who you are. I was demonstrating how ridiculous your logic is. If someone sits with their knee on someone's neck for 10 minutes, that person will likely suffocate. It's common sense.

Things are not that simple. To suffocate an individual would require compression of the windpipe, which is difficult with lateral pressure, particularly in a large, muscular individual. The photos do seem to show the cop’s knee near to/on the right carotid, but carotid compression would black the individual out, not cause them to complain they could not breathe. The more likely explanation would appear to be positional asphyxia, the chest compressed by the individual’s own weight and that of the police to the point where lung expansion becomes progressively more difficult and then impossible. Drug/alcohol intoxication would exacerbate this. The possibility remains, however, that death was from the drugs/alcohol, a heart attack, asthma or another idiopathic cause. Coincidence in time between action and result does not equal causation. However bad the cop’s use of force might have looked or been, it is important to know what actually happened.

An overarching problem here and in other well known cases is the appalling lack of correspondence between the alleged precipitating offense (counterfeit money) and the end result (death). The man in New York accused of selling loose cigarettes and then choked to death Is another example, as is the mentally ill man accused of stealing car radios but then beaten to death by police. It’s not realistic to expect police to just let arrestees walk away if they refuse to cooperate, but there needs to be some middle ground where people don’t get killed over minor crimes. Police in many jurisdictions have abandoned the “win at all costs” attitude toward high speed pursuits, reserving them for only the most serious offenders. Street policing needs something like that.

Wow, what a lucid well-reasoned and well-written post. No "gotcha" or inflammatory prose. Rare on DCUM. I enjoyed and learned from it. Please write more!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What was cop and guy killed doing that ended up with cop killing him by crushing his neck?

Has any actual evidence been reported confirming the cause of death, i.e., strangulation, asphyxia, cervical dislocation, asthma, myocardial infarction, narcotics? As opposed to post hoc ergo propter hoc conclusions?

The cop in question was a major-league foul ball who should have been off the force years ago.

The rioting, burning, looting and the rest are absolutely unacceptable.

Let me come sit with my knee on your neck for 10 minutes and see if you're alive to debate whether my knee was the cause of any problems that result.

Yeah. That’s not how it works. And you don’t seem to know much about anatomy.

Adding: and from the violent, threatening, and personal time of your response, it would appear that the answer to the question is “no,” and it really pisses you off that anyone would dare question your unsupported, conclusory opinion.

I'm not threatening you. I have no idea who you are. I was demonstrating how ridiculous your logic is. If someone sits with their knee on someone's neck for 10 minutes, that person will likely suffocate. It's common sense.

Things are not that simple. To suffocate an individual would require compression of the windpipe, which is difficult with lateral pressure, particularly in a large, muscular individual. The photos do seem to show the cop’s knee near to/on the right carotid, but carotid compression would black the individual out, not cause them to complain they could not breathe. The more likely explanation would appear to be positional asphyxia, the chest compressed by the individual’s own weight and that of the police to the point where lung expansion becomes progressively more difficult and then impossible. Drug/alcohol intoxication would exacerbate this. The possibility remains, however, that death was from the drugs/alcohol, a heart attack, asthma or another idiopathic cause. Coincidence in time between action and result does not equal causation. However bad the cop’s use of force might have looked or been, it is important to know what actually happened.

An overarching problem here and in other well known cases is the appalling lack of correspondence between the alleged precipitating offense (counterfeit money) and the end result (death). The man in New York accused of selling loose cigarettes and then choked to death Is another example, as is the mentally ill man accused of stealing car radios but then beaten to death by police. It’s not realistic to expect police to just let arrestees walk away if they refuse to cooperate, but there needs to be some middle ground where people don’t get killed over minor crimes. Police in many jurisdictions have abandoned the “win at all costs” attitude toward high speed pursuits, reserving them for only the most serious offenders. Street policing needs something like that.

Wow, what a lucid well-reasoned and well-written post. No "gotcha" or inflammatory prose. Rare on DCUM. I enjoyed and learned from it. Please write more!

+1 This post was great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What was cop and guy killed doing that ended up with cop killing him by crushing his neck?

Has any actual evidence been reported confirming the cause of death, i.e., strangulation, asphyxia, cervical dislocation, asthma, myocardial infarction, narcotics? As opposed to post hoc ergo propter hoc conclusions?

The cop in question was a major-league foul ball who should have been off the force years ago.

The rioting, burning, looting and the rest are absolutely unacceptable.

Let me come sit with my knee on your neck for 10 minutes and see if you're alive to debate whether my knee was the cause of any problems that result.

Yeah. That’s not how it works. And you don’t seem to know much about anatomy.

Adding: and from the violent, threatening, and personal time of your response, it would appear that the answer to the question is “no,” and it really pisses you off that anyone would dare question your unsupported, conclusory opinion.

I'm not threatening you. I have no idea who you are. I was demonstrating how ridiculous your logic is. If someone sits with their knee on someone's neck for 10 minutes, that person will likely suffocate. It's common sense.

Things are not that simple. To suffocate an individual would require compression of the windpipe, which is difficult with lateral pressure, particularly in a large, muscular individual. The photos do seem to show the cop’s knee near to/on the right carotid, but carotid compression would black the individual out, not cause them to complain they could not breathe. The more likely explanation would appear to be positional asphyxia, the chest compressed by the individual’s own weight and that of the police to the point where lung expansion becomes progressively more difficult and then impossible. Drug/alcohol intoxication would exacerbate this. The possibility remains, however, that death was from the drugs/alcohol, a heart attack, asthma or another idiopathic cause. Coincidence in time between action and result does not equal causation. However bad the cop’s use of force might have looked or been, it is important to know what actually happened.

An overarching problem here and in other well known cases is the appalling lack of correspondence between the alleged precipitating offense (counterfeit money) and the end result (death). The man in New York accused of selling loose cigarettes and then choked to death Is another example, as is the mentally ill man accused of stealing car radios but then beaten to death by police. It’s not realistic to expect police to just let arrestees walk away if they refuse to cooperate, but there needs to be some middle ground where people don’t get killed over minor crimes. Police in many jurisdictions have abandoned the “win at all costs” attitude toward high speed pursuits, reserving them for only the most serious offenders. Street policing needs something like that.

What if there were a total of three cops holding him down? Compressing neck, lungs, diaphragm, etc.


And a fourth overlooking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What was cop and guy killed doing that ended up with cop killing him by crushing his neck?

Has any actual evidence been reported confirming the cause of death, i.e., strangulation, asphyxia, cervical dislocation, asthma, myocardial infarction, narcotics? As opposed to post hoc ergo propter hoc conclusions?

The cop in question was a major-league foul ball who should have been off the force years ago.

The rioting, burning, looting and the rest are absolutely unacceptable.

Let me come sit with my knee on your neck for 10 minutes and see if you're alive to debate whether my knee was the cause of any problems that result.

Yeah. That’s not how it works. And you don’t seem to know much about anatomy.

Adding: and from the violent, threatening, and personal time of your response, it would appear that the answer to the question is “no,” and it really pisses you off that anyone would dare question your unsupported, conclusory opinion.

I'm not threatening you. I have no idea who you are. I was demonstrating how ridiculous your logic is. If someone sits with their knee on someone's neck for 10 minutes, that person will likely suffocate. It's common sense.

Things are not that simple. To suffocate an individual would require compression of the windpipe, which is difficult with lateral pressure, particularly in a large, muscular individual. The photos do seem to show the cop’s knee near to/on the right carotid, but carotid compression would black the individual out, not cause them to complain they could not breathe. The more likely explanation would appear to be positional asphyxia, the chest compressed by the individual’s own weight and that of the police to the point where lung expansion becomes progressively more difficult and then impossible. Drug/alcohol intoxication would exacerbate this. The possibility remains, however, that death was from the drugs/alcohol, a heart attack, asthma or another idiopathic cause. Coincidence in time between action and result does not equal causation. However bad the cop’s use of force might have looked or been, it is important to know what actually happened.

An overarching problem here and in other well known cases is the appalling lack of correspondence between the alleged precipitating offense (counterfeit money) and the end result (death). The man in New York accused of selling loose cigarettes and then choked to death Is another example, as is the mentally ill man accused of stealing car radios but then beaten to death by police. It’s not realistic to expect police to just let arrestees walk away if they refuse to cooperate, but there needs to be some middle ground where people don’t get killed over minor crimes. Police in many jurisdictions have abandoned the “win at all costs” attitude toward high speed pursuits, reserving them for only the most serious offenders. Street policing needs something like that.

Agree with everything here. The autopsy results are going to be very important here from a legal standpoint.

Sure. But none of that will matter. If the cop isn’t convicted of murder, the mob has already spoken and there will be another wave of riots. There will be no jury that will be able to separate their verdict from this consequence. This cop would be wise to waive the right to a jury of his “peers” and go with a singular judge so that his attorney can argue the evidence to someone with knowledge of the law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

An overarching problem here and in other well known cases is the appalling lack of correspondence between the alleged precipitating offense (counterfeit money) and the end result (death). The man in New York accused of selling loose cigarettes and then choked to death Is another example, as is the mentally ill man accused of stealing car radios but then beaten to death by police. It’s not realistic to expect police to just let arrestees walk away if they refuse to cooperate, but there needs to be some middle ground where people don’t get killed over minor crimes. Police in many jurisdictions have abandoned the “win at all costs” attitude toward high speed pursuits, reserving them for only the most serious offenders. Street policing needs something like that.

I AGREE!

I'm from a European country, visit Asian countries regularly and see their police in action, and am always so shocked at the atrocious level of permissible violence perpetrated by American police. Why is this allowed? Police forces all over the world are trained to adjust their response according to the situation, the suspect and the accusation. Why can't the US train their police better?

It's a blot on the ethics of Americans.