terrorist attack in Paris

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cousin worked in Middle East. Said that women got on plane in burkas or najib--got off in Europe in western dress. Sure, they love wearing it.

You should see my neighbor practically jumping for joy when her husband leaves for his business trips.

[Anonymous]

Rally today starting at Newseum at 2pm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sure if you 'choose to wear it's lovely, but if you are forced to a ball and chain for many. I imagine thats why France banned it - in solidarity with many hundreds of millions of women who have NO choice. And to send a message, that wont be happening even one time in France. Maybe there would be lots who wore it freely in France but then the teen girl whose family bullies her into it. Not worth it it sounds like. Especially since some of their neighborhoods sound so closed to police etc - how would they even investigate? These girls would be swallowed up into silence. We are still looking for that awful taxi driver in Texas who honor killed his lovely teen daughters as he thought they were too western.

It is subjugation - plain and simple. And while many may disagree with me, I've seen my fair share of young girls in the US forced to cover. Many have been angry and resentful, and their feelings have come across very clearly in their writing assignments and artwork.

An educational setting - like a courtroom - should level the playing field. Allowing young women to explore who they are OUTSIDE of their religious belief system is healthy, imo. Religion should not define WHO we are. Unfortunately, this isn't the case with Islam.

Forcing women to uncover is as barbaric as forcing them to cover.

[Anonymous]

My view is it should be all about self-determination. Best case scenario, people should get to choose for themselves. Whether it's muslim women wearing the niqab, or ultra-orthodox jewish girls forced to wear long dresses and long sleeve shirts in 100 degree weather. If that's what they want, great. If not, then they should get to do what they want. If religion gets in the way with that choice, then it's a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My view is it should be all about self-determination. Best case scenario, people should get to choose for themselves. Whether it's muslim women wearing the niqab, or ultra-orthodox jewish girls forced to wear long dresses and long sleeve shirts in 100 degree weather. If that's what they want, great. If not, then they should get to do what they want. If religion gets in the way with that choice, then it's a problem.

I disagree. If religion says you must dress or eat this way, then okay. If religion tells you that you must obey your husband, etc., well, that's less okay. If you father, brother, husband, and society tell you you must dress a certain way, behave a certain way, can only hold X job, can only do X thing, then that's a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My view is it should be all about self-determination. Best case scenario, people should get to choose for themselves. Whether it's muslim women wearing the niqab, or ultra-orthodox jewish girls forced to wear long dresses and long sleeve shirts in 100 degree weather. If that's what they want, great. If not, then they should get to do what they want. If religion gets in the way with that choice, then it's a problem.

I disagree. If religion says you must dress or eat this way, then okay. If religion tells you that you must obey your husband, etc., well, that's less okay. If you father, brother, husband, and society tell you you must dress a certain way, behave a certain way, can only hold X job, can only do X thing, then that's a problem.

The problem is what your father (or brother, or other male relative, or Beit Din, or any other person/body who believes they know what's right) says is very often exactly the same as what the religion dictates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My view is it should be all about self-determination. Best case scenario, people should get to choose for themselves. Whether it's muslim women wearing the niqab, or ultra-orthodox jewish girls forced to wear long dresses and long sleeve shirts in 100 degree weather. If that's what they want, great. If not, then they should get to do what they want. If religion gets in the way with that choice, then it's a problem.

I disagree. If religion says you must dress or eat this way, then okay. If religion tells you that you must obey your husband, etc., well, that's less okay. If you father, brother, husband, and society tell you you must dress a certain way, behave a certain way, can only hold X job, can only do X thing, then that's a problem.

The problem is what your father (or brother, or other male relative, or Beit Din, or any other person/body who believes they know what's right) says is very often exactly the same as what the religion dictates.

Let me add, that I don't necessarily disagree with you, I just think practically speaking you're splitting hairs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The girls.from.saudi who attended my small liberal.arts college did not do.so in niqab - I'm sure it went back on when they flew home for vacations. No safer place to wear niqab than small.american.liberal arts.college. Seems like they didn't really want to...

Muslima is paid by Saudis Arabia to live in McLean and spread propaganda on sharia law and Wahhabi doctrine

Saudi pay billions of oil money to spread Islam

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The girls.from.saudi who attended my small liberal.arts college did not do.so in niqab - I'm sure it went back on when they flew home for vacations. No safer place to wear niqab than small.american.liberal arts.college. Seems like they didn't really want to...

Muslima is paid by Saudis Arabia to live in McLean and spread propaganda on sharia law and Wahhabi doctrine

Saudi pay billions of oil money to spread Islam

Wait, I finally figured it out. This entire website is a front for the Saudi government. Jeff is on the payroll... I knew it!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My view is it should be all about self-determination. Best case scenario, people should get to choose for themselves. Whether it's muslim women wearing the niqab, or ultra-orthodox jewish girls forced to wear long dresses and long sleeve shirts in 100 degree weather. If that's what they want, great. If not, then they should get to do what they want. If religion gets in the way with that choice, then it's a problem.

I disagree. If religion says you must dress or eat this way, then okay. If religion tells you that you must obey your husband, etc., well, that's less okay. If you father, brother, husband, and society tell you you must dress a certain way, behave a certain way, can only hold X job, can only do X thing, then that's a problem.

not very astute, eh?

Religion is ruled by men, created by men.

Religious dress codes were written by men FOR women.

So if Daddy and husband are telling you that you'll look like a whore w/o your niqab or hijab, that's no different from the Quran telling you that you need to be "modest."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sure if you 'choose to wear it's lovely, but if you are forced to a ball and chain for many. I imagine thats why France banned it - in solidarity with many hundreds of millions of women who have NO choice. And to send a message, that wont be happening even one time in France. Maybe there would be lots who wore it freely in France but then the teen girl whose family bullies her into it. Not worth it it sounds like. Especially since some of their neighborhoods sound so closed to police etc - how would they even investigate? These girls would be swallowed up into silence. We are still looking for that awful taxi driver in Texas who honor killed his lovely teen daughters as he thought they were too western.

It is subjugation - plain and simple. And while many may disagree with me, I've seen my fair share of young girls in the US forced to cover. Many have been angry and resentful, and their feelings have come across very clearly in their writing assignments and artwork.

An educational setting - like a courtroom - should level the playing field. Allowing young women to explore who they are OUTSIDE of their religious belief system is healthy, imo. Religion should not define WHO we are. Unfortunately, this isn't the case with Islam.

Forcing women to uncover is as barbaric as forcing them to cover.

Making women aware of freedom is barbaric?

Allowing them to express themselves in other ways is barbaric?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My view is it should be all about self-determination. Best case scenario, people should get to choose for themselves. Whether it's muslim women wearing the niqab, or ultra-orthodox jewish girls forced to wear long dresses and long sleeve shirts in 100 degree weather. If that's what they want, great. If not, then they should get to do what they want. If religion gets in the way with that choice, then it's a problem.

I disagree. If religion says you must dress or eat this way, then okay. If religion tells you that you must obey your husband, etc., well, that's less okay. If you father, brother, husband, and society tell you you must dress a certain way, behave a certain way, can only hold X job, can only do X thing, then that's a problem.

not very astute, eh?

Religion is ruled by men, created by men.

Religious dress codes were written by men FOR women.

So if Daddy and husband are telling you that you'll look like a whore w/o your niqab or hijab, that's no different from the Quran telling you that you need to be "modest."

Back in the day, nuns were some of the most powerful women in society, however they dressed.

Practically speaking, if you live in the desert, it might make sense to cover some or almost all of your skin -- that's cultural rather than religious. However, if you're not out in the sun, if you have built shelters or moved to a different climate, then covering may no longer make so much sense. At that point, is it religion or culture that dictates what you wear?

But I won't go on, since I'm not very astute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sure if you 'choose to wear it's lovely, but if you are forced to a ball and chain for many. I imagine thats why France banned it - in solidarity with many hundreds of millions of women who have NO choice. And to send a message, that wont be happening even one time in France. Maybe there would be lots who wore it freely in France but then the teen girl whose family bullies her into it. Not worth it it sounds like. Especially since some of their neighborhoods sound so closed to police etc - how would they even investigate? These girls would be swallowed up into silence. We are still looking for that awful taxi driver in Texas who honor killed his lovely teen daughters as he thought they were too western.

It is subjugation - plain and simple. And while many may disagree with me, I've seen my fair share of young girls in the US forced to cover. Many have been angry and resentful, and their feelings have come across very clearly in their writing assignments and artwork.

An educational setting - like a courtroom - should level the playing field. Allowing young women to explore who they are OUTSIDE of their religious belief system is healthy, imo. Religion should not define WHO we are. Unfortunately, this isn't the case with Islam.

Forcing women to uncover is as barbaric as forcing them to cover.

Making women aware of freedom is barbaric?

Allowing them to express themselves in other ways is barbaric?

Why are you putting words in my mouth?

Women who live in secular countries know very well of freedoms available to them. If you outlaw a particular type of cover, you are in fact mandating dress codes as much as Al-Saud who dictate covering. It's not your business to decide or dictate how much or how little women should expose. It's not up to you. They own their bodies. Not you. Taking away the freedom to cover is barbaric.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My view is it should be all about self-determination. Best case scenario, people should get to choose for themselves. Whether it's muslim women wearing the niqab, or ultra-orthodox jewish girls forced to wear long dresses and long sleeve shirts in 100 degree weather. If that's what they want, great. If not, then they should get to do what they want. If religion gets in the way with that choice, then it's a problem.

I disagree. If religion says you must dress or eat this way, then okay. If religion tells you that you must obey your husband, etc., well, that's less okay. If you father, brother, husband, and society tell you you must dress a certain way, behave a certain way, can only hold X job, can only do X thing, then that's a problem.

not very astute, eh?

Religion is ruled by men, created by men.

Religious dress codes were written by men FOR women.

So if Daddy and husband are telling you that you'll look like a whore w/o your niqab or hijab, that's no different from the Quran telling you that you need to be "modest."

Back in the day, nuns were some of the most powerful women in society, however they dressed.

Practically speaking, if you live in the desert, it might make sense to cover some or almost all of your skin -- that's cultural rather than religious. However, if you're not out in the sun, if you have built shelters or moved to a different climate, then covering may no longer make so much sense. At that point, is it religion or culture that dictates what you wear?

But I won't go on, since I'm not very astute.

Nuns have never been "powerful" outside of a church or a church school. And many were not the happiest women around. I know that firsthand. Catholics don't confess to nuns. Nuns don't marry couples. They don't say mass. They don't even receive the sacrament of the Holy Orders - but priests do.

yeah - really powerful

Furthermore, you're contradicting yourself. You defend a religious framework that forces upon women a dress code, yet you bring the need to cover back down to reality - in essence to protect the body from the elements.

astute to a certain point - But you clearly can't synthesize information to make a point in your defense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sure if you 'choose to wear it's lovely, but if you are forced to a ball and chain for many. I imagine thats why France banned it - in solidarity with many hundreds of millions of women who have NO choice. And to send a message, that wont be happening even one time in France. Maybe there would be lots who wore it freely in France but then the teen girl whose family bullies her into it. Not worth it it sounds like. Especially since some of their neighborhoods sound so closed to police etc - how would they even investigate? These girls would be swallowed up into silence. We are still looking for that awful taxi driver in Texas who honor killed his lovely teen daughters as he thought they were too western.

It is subjugation - plain and simple. And while many may disagree with me, I've seen my fair share of young girls in the US forced to cover. Many have been angry and resentful, and their feelings have come across very clearly in their writing assignments and artwork.

An educational setting - like a courtroom - should level the playing field. Allowing young women to explore who they are OUTSIDE of their religious belief system is healthy, imo. Religion should not define WHO we are. Unfortunately, this isn't the case with Islam.

Forcing women to uncover is as barbaric as forcing them to cover.

Making women aware of freedom is barbaric?

Allowing them to express themselves in other ways is barbaric?

Why are you putting words in my mouth?

Women who live in secular countries know very well of freedoms available to them. If you outlaw a particular type of cover, you are in fact mandating dress codes as much as Al-Saud who dictate covering. It's not your business to decide or dictate how much or how little women should expose. It's not up to you. They own their bodies. Not you. Taking away the freedom to cover is barbaric.

See? You don't get it.

their own bodies as owned by men via the Quran . . .

THAT'S barbaric!

They aren't deciding for themselves. They've simply spent years being told how to dress and therefore it's become their reality. You can't understand that?

Simply put, it's brainwashing.