terrorist attack in Paris

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:News alert:

French police have been told to erase their social media and brace for attacks as intelligence reports that sleeper cells have been activated.

What's the source? Libe, le monde, le Figaro?

It's on CNN.

Weird that it isn't in any French newspapers. I wonder if CNN is being slightly alarmist.

I'd say they're allowed to be as alarmist as they want to be after two attacks in two days by human garbage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:News alert:

French police have been told to erase their social media and brace for attacks as intelligence reports that sleeper cells have been activated.

What's the source? Libe, le monde, le Figaro?

It's on CNN.

Weird that it isn't in any French newspapers. I wonder if CNN is being slightly alarmist.

.

I'd say they're allowed to be as alarmist as they want to be after two attacks in two days by human garbage

I meant more alarmist than the French newspapers, which are not saying anything about terror cells. I have been reading CNN and the three leading French newspapers. CNN was consistently slightly more alarmist in an apparent effort to keep their readers hooked up to their coverage.

[Anonymous]

^^ it's coverage.

[Anonymous]

^^ its coverage (stupid autocorrect)

[Anonymous]

Finally, a slightly more apt comparison to the current political situation would be to imagine a third US party where Pat Buchanan is the historical leader and Michelle Bachmann is the current candidate, a moderate Republican party like before 1980, and a much more liberal Democratic party -- and opinion polls gave Bachmann 30%, the moderate Republican 25%, and an unpopular incumbent from the liberal Democratic Party 15%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Finally, a slightly more apt comparison to the current political situation would be to imagine a third US party where Pat Buchanan is the historical leader and Michelle Bachmann is the current candidate, a moderate Republican party like before 1980, and a much more liberal Democratic party -- and opinion polls gave Bachmann 30%, the moderate Republican 25%, and an unpopular incumbent from the liberal Democratic Party 15%.

you should also have the US with taxes at 50% (75% for salaries above 1M - this tax is expiring but has been in force so far), unemployment at 10% in general and at 24% for young people, virtually no growth for years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

OK. This may not be the place, but since you wonder why some of us distrust Muslima so, I'll get into it briefly. Just one example. Muslima said "women are equal in Islam." No elaboration, no context, nothing more. As you suggest now, several of us started pointing out Muslim divorce laws, inheritance rights, marital property and custody rights, value of a woman's testimony in financial courts, and that these things are in the Quran to various extents and practiced to various extents in all countries with sharia law. Three pages later, Muslima says, "Oh, I didn't mean western linear ideas of equality, which involve equality of legal rights, instead I meant the Muslim idea of equality of responsibilities, and you all should have known that from the start." A minor issue is that it felt like dawwah, and several people pointed that out. The main issue is, it felt very deceptive, because I venture to guess that 95% of her readers had no clue about women's rights in Islam as opposed to the western idea of legal equality we all grew up with here. I'm also pretty sure that Muslima knew very well that 95% of her readers grew up with western ideas of legal equality and had no clue what she really meant about women being equal. So anyway, we did what you said, which is to point out these aspects of sharia law, but at the end of the day (and after many similar examples) many of us from those threads don't trust her and are more than used to challenging her. You're seeing that on this thread.

The poster who coined the term "linear ideas of equality" is not Muslima, it's another Muslim chick obsessed with getting "major media outlets" to write about Islamophobia. Since we've heard crickets about that, I'm assuming it went the way of the holiday hangover. She's the one who posted nonsense about slavery, concubines, equality etc., and it was I, the educated kaffirah and the wife of a Saudi Arab Muslim (and a couple of others) who took special pleasure in taking her arguments apart.

But that wasn't Muslima. Just for accuracy's sake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women are not supposed to wear a hijab or niqab so they won't arouse men. That's ridiculous . Those who wear their hijab or niqab do it as part of their spiritual journey. Whether you believe that or not, whether you think it' s demeaning to them is irrelevant. Also your point about asking if that woman had a job and what type of job she has is a bit condescending. Many American women do not have a job, many are stay at home moms, by choice. Are they less than you because they don't have a job? Your judgemental notions and ideas are what's wrong with society today. We need more of the PP and less of you in the world!

you are purposely putting words in my mouth I never said,. there are plenty of SAHM in the US (as SAHD) and they are not less then me or you. I simply pointed out that while with a hijab you can have a normal life and do whatever you want, which can be stay at home with the kids or be a neurosurgeon or a metrobus driver, with a niqab you cannot. you conveniently chose to twist my words so you did not have to address what I was actually saying.

as for beign ridiculous that the nature of the iqab, the history of the garment, where and who have been using it for centuries, clearly supports what I am saying ( interestingly men in the Arabic peninsula never felt the need to do their spiritual journey while clad in an iqab). when the talibans captured Kabul and imposed the burka under penalty of death, do you think they were concerned by the spiritual journey of the local women? I know there are plenty of women in KSA and elsewhere who choose to wear it, it is part of their tradition, like women in India wear a sari. but the origin of the garment is to make a woman's body invisible to the outside world and it is not by chance that the iqab originated in a place where women traditionally do not leave the house without a man.

thanks for pointing out that the world would be a better place with less people like me. you are wrong. I have never ever imposed my opinions with violence on anybody, I am a foreigner in the US and I live here and I accept and respect the laws of this place where I am a guest. I strongly desagree with a lot of things here, some of them I find them wrong or offensive or funny, but I still show respect for what clearly is important for others. if there were more people like me, frankly I doubt the world would be worse off

I am not putting words in your mouth. You have repeated the same thing again, stating that American women who stay home choose to do so, well have you ever considered that some niqabi women also choose to stay home? And that some of them have a job? Thank God not everyone is narrow minded and I know of niqabis in the US who have an actual job, outside of their home, heck one even works at a public school in California. Is it more difficult for them to get a job? You bet, but it's their choice. And May I remind you, that many niqabis do not live in the West, they live in Muslim countries where their niqabs do NOT prevent them to get a job, as niqabs are part of the cultural norm. And yes, the world needs less of you send more of the PPs, I still stand by that!

This is gets to the heart of my problem with the hairs Jeff is trying to split, between on the one hand Muslims and Islam, which he argues are amorphous and therefore can't be criticized as a group, and the Catholic church, which he argues has a hierarchy and can therefore be criticized.

There are two issues here. First, Muslima is speaking on behalf of all muslim women who ever donned a niqab, and saying that they all do it only for spiritual reasons. She even punctuates her claim by calling PP "ridiculous" for thinking that non-spiritual reasons might be involved. As PP points out, history and tradition make Muslima's claim about other Muslim women's motives not a little suspect. At the very least, since we shouldn't be saying that "all Muslims are terrorists," then Muslima shouldn't be speaking for all niqab-wearing women.

The second issue is that one could go further, and argue that Muslima is out of sync with Islam itself. Yes, it's true there's no central Islamic hierarchy. But there is a holy book that purports to be the literal words of God. It's a very rare Muslim who thinks the Quran isn't the literal word of God, as transmitted to the prophet by the angel. Therefore, I'd argue that the Quran itself can legitimately be taken as representing "all Islam." (Note I would never argue that you can do the same with sharia or the hadith, which do vary widely across the Muslim world, although Muslima has often claimed that a given hadith speaks for "Islam" when it suits her own purposes.) Here's what the Koran says about veiling: "Oh Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should case their outer garmets over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested." (Yusufali) In other words, it's to announce that you're a modest Muslim woman and to avoid sexual harassment - the latter I think we can agree involves arousal. So Muslima is out of sync with the Quran itself.

Anway. That's what bugs me about Muslima. That's also why I don't buy the distinctions Jeff draws about why you can criticize the Catholic Church but not Muslims/Islam.

Stop lying. Where did I say that all Niqabis wear them freely? And where did I say that I spoke for every Muslim woman? If anything you are the one with the brush, always talking about the poor oppressed Muslim women And my point has always been and will continue to be that regardless of what you say, the are Many and More Muslim women who Choose to wear the hijab/niqab than are forced to! I haven't met in my life a single one that was forced to wear it, and I know many many Muslim women. Does it mean that they don't exist? Of course not, but that's NOT the norm! !!

Hmm. I wonder why you haven't met those women.
Muslima, what's with random capitalization?

Re: how many women wear niqab freely vs. by force or societal pressure, all it takes to find out is buy a dozen tickets to flights out of Riad, Jeddah or Doha. Count the niqabis that get on, and count the niqabis that get off. Multiply and extrapolate. That's your answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: "We didn't see a lot of Republicans here deserting en masse for the Democratic Party when the Tea Party ruled the show. But yeah, the French are inherently racist. Mind you, I'd be surprised if the National Front doesn't win this time around. "

There is a misconception that UMP=Rep, PS=Dem, and FN=tea party. The FN, particularly until a few years ago, was clearly neo-fascist and much more xenophobic than the tea party, and it is more populist and much less libertarian, particularly in economic issues, than the tea party. Don't have the time right now to give details.

The only reason the Tea Party and other far right wing groups (particulary Christian fundamentalist ones) aren't overtly neo-fascist is that they know full well whence their financial support originates. Below is a link to a high level overview (for people who have been living under a rock, I suppose). In addition Harper's ran a story a few years ago that I unfortunately can't locate now detailing the some of the nitty-gritty details of the counterintuitive alliance between the Israel lobby and high-powered evangelicals. There were two interesting tidbits about the perspective from each side that I remember from that article:
1. One of the Israeli reps stated under cover of anonimity that "these people (the politicians being bought) are serious anti-Semites."
2. The Evangelical position was, broadly, that Israel needed to remain under the control of the Jews until the Second Coming, when true Christians would ascend to heaven and everybody else would be...shall we say, engulfed in a great ball of fire.

http://mearsheimer.uchicago.edu/pdfs/A0040.pdf

Le Pen doesn't have that constituency to satisfy and can speak his mind. And the scumbag is wasting no time: http://www.huffingtonpost.fr/2015/01/09/jean-marie-le-pen-front-national-charlie-martel-hebdo-tweet-declarations_n_6443248.html?ir=France

[Anonymous]

Small handmade bomb used to attack a newspaper in Hamburg, Germany, that republished CH's cartoons. No injuries.

[Anonymous]

The girls.from.saudi who attended my small liberal.arts college did not do.so in niqab - I'm sure it went back on when they flew home for vacations. No safer place to wear niqab than small.american.liberal arts.college. Seems like they didn't really want to...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women are not supposed to wear a hijab or niqab so they won't arouse men. That's ridiculous . Those who wear their hijab or niqab do it as part of their spiritual journey. Whether you believe that or not, whether you think it' s demeaning to them is irrelevant. Also your point about asking if that woman had a job and what type of job she has is a bit condescending. Many American women do not have a job, many are stay at home moms, by choice. Are they less than you because they don't have a job? Your judgemental notions and ideas are what's wrong with society today. We need more of the PP and less of you in the world!

you are purposely putting words in my mouth I never said,. there are plenty of SAHM in the US (as SAHD) and they are not less then me or you. I simply pointed out that while with a hijab you can have a normal life and do whatever you want, which can be stay at home with the kids or be a neurosurgeon or a metrobus driver, with a niqab you cannot. you conveniently chose to twist my words so you did not have to address what I was actually saying.

as for beign ridiculous that the nature of the iqab, the history of the garment, where and who have been using it for centuries, clearly supports what I am saying ( interestingly men in the Arabic peninsula never felt the need to do their spiritual journey while clad in an iqab). when the talibans captured Kabul and imposed the burka under penalty of death, do you think they were concerned by the spiritual journey of the local women? I know there are plenty of women in KSA and elsewhere who choose to wear it, it is part of their tradition, like women in India wear a sari. but the origin of the garment is to make a woman's body invisible to the outside world and it is not by chance that the iqab originated in a place where women traditionally do not leave the house without a man.

thanks for pointing out that the world would be a better place with less people like me. you are wrong. I have never ever imposed my opinions with violence on anybody, I am a foreigner in the US and I live here and I accept and respect the laws of this place where I am a guest. I strongly desagree with a lot of things here, some of them I find them wrong or offensive or funny, but I still show respect for what clearly is important for others. if there were more people like me, frankly I doubt the world would be worse off

I am not putting words in your mouth. You have repeated the same thing again, stating that American women who stay home choose to do so, well have you ever considered that some niqabi women also choose to stay home? And that some of them have a job? Thank God not everyone is narrow minded and I know of niqabis in the US who have an actual job, outside of their home, heck one even works at a public school in California. Is it more difficult for them to get a job? You bet, but it's their choice. And May I remind you, that many niqabis do not live in the West, they live in Muslim countries where their niqabs do NOT prevent them to get a job, as niqabs are part of the cultural norm. And yes, the world needs less of you send more of the PPs, I still stand by that!

This is gets to the heart of my problem with the hairs Jeff is trying to split, between on the one hand Muslims and Islam, which he argues are amorphous and therefore can't be criticized as a group, and the Catholic church, which he argues has a hierarchy and can therefore be criticized.

There are two issues here. First, Muslima is speaking on behalf of all muslim women who ever donned a niqab, and saying that they all do it only for spiritual reasons. She even punctuates her claim by calling PP "ridiculous" for thinking that non-spiritual reasons might be involved. As PP points out, history and tradition make Muslima's claim about other Muslim women's motives not a little suspect. At the very least, since we shouldn't be saying that "all Muslims are terrorists," then Muslima shouldn't be speaking for all niqab-wearing women.

The second issue is that one could go further, and argue that Muslima is out of sync with Islam itself. Yes, it's true there's no central Islamic hierarchy. But there is a holy book that purports to be the literal words of God. It's a very rare Muslim who thinks the Quran isn't the literal word of God, as transmitted to the prophet by the angel. Therefore, I'd argue that the Quran itself can legitimately be taken as representing "all Islam." (Note I would never argue that you can do the same with sharia or the hadith, which do vary widely across the Muslim world, although Muslima has often claimed that a given hadith speaks for "Islam" when it suits her own purposes.) Here's what the Koran says about veiling: "Oh Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should case their outer garmets over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested." (Yusufali) In other words, it's to announce that you're a modest Muslim woman and to avoid sexual harassment - the latter I think we can agree involves arousal. So Muslima is out of sync with the Quran itself.

Anway. That's what bugs me about Muslima. That's also why I don't buy the distinctions Jeff draws about why you can criticize the Catholic Church but not Muslims/Islam.

Stop lying. Where did I say that all Niqabis wear them freely? And where did I say that I spoke for every Muslim woman? If anything you are the one with the brush, always talking about the poor oppressed Muslim women And my point has always been and will continue to be that regardless of what you say, the are Many and More Muslim women who Choose to wear the hijab/niqab than are forced to! I haven't met in my life a single one that was forced to wear it, and I know many many Muslim women. Does it mean that they don't exist? Of course not, but that's NOT the norm! !!

Hmm. I wonder why you haven't met those women.

Muslima, what's with random capitalization?

Re: how many women wear niqab freely vs. by force or societal pressure, all it takes to find out is buy a dozen tickets to flights out of Riad, Jeddah or Doha. Count the niqabis that get on, and count the niqabis that get off. Multiply and extrapolate. That's your answer.

Religious police forces in the Saudi Kingdom also enforce sharia in public - as they do in the Islamic State; the only difference is the degree of enforcement but the source of law is identical.

[Anonymous]

Cousin worked in Middle East. Said that women got on plane in burkas or najib--got off in Europe in western dress. Sure, they love wearing it.

[Anonymous]

I am sure if you 'choose to wear it's lovely, but if you are forced to a ball and chain for many. I imagine thats why France banned it - in solidarity with many hundreds of millions of women who have NO choice. And to send a message, that wont be happening even one time in France. Maybe there would be lots who wore it freely in France but then the teen girl whose family bullies her into it. Not worth it it sounds like. Especially since some of their neighborhoods sound so closed to police etc - how would they even investigate? These girls would be swallowed up into silence. We are still looking for that awful taxi driver in Texas who honor killed his lovely teen daughters as he thought they were too western.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am sure if you 'choose to wear it's lovely, but if you are forced to a ball and chain for many. I imagine thats why France banned it - in solidarity with many hundreds of millions of women who have NO choice. And to send a message, that wont be happening even one time in France. Maybe there would be lots who wore it freely in France but then the teen girl whose family bullies her into it. Not worth it it sounds like. Especially since some of their neighborhoods sound so closed to police etc - how would they even investigate? These girls would be swallowed up into silence. We are still looking for that awful taxi driver in Texas who honor killed his lovely teen daughters as he thought they were too western.

It is subjugation - plain and simple. And while many may disagree with me, I've seen my fair share of young girls in the US forced to cover. Many have been angry and resentful, and their feelings have come across very clearly in their writing assignments and artwork.

An educational setting - like a courtroom - should level the playing field. Allowing young women to explore who they are OUTSIDE of their religious belief system is healthy, imo. Religion should not define WHO we are. Unfortunately, this isn't the case with Islam.