Magnet MS results - Takoma Park & Eastern - anyone heard today?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This ain't right. How will they be able to factor in 'the cohort' if they wouldn't know the child's ES? Of course, they would!

How about -- by knowing the child's home MS? I.e., the school to which the child would go, if the child were not admitted to the magnet program.

That's still a lopsided process.

Yes but goes to the fundamental issue, is there a pool of peers. Can't resolve that without looking at the potential for peers next year. That is in part why magnets exist - to create that. Of course magnets were also were founded for social engineering...and probably other purposes I can't quite track.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But this has always been the case - more candidates than spots - except that this year there's WAY more candidates than spots. I don't know what MCPS has achieved but now the process looks even more arbitrary and unfair than before.

The process looks more arbitrary and unfair from the perspective of white/Asian middle class families. From the perspective of poor and working class families, and non-Asian families of color, it is exactly the same level of arbitrary and unfair that it has always been, maybe a bit better.

Yes, basically the argument here is "It looks more arbitrary and unfair because it happened to my kid."

Which I definitely understand. The year it happened to my kid, a few years ago -- that's when it looked more arbitrary and unfair to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Although you could argue that the kids with the higher scores might need the acceleration and enrichment more.
If the higher COGAT test scores are also echoed by higher MAP R and higher MAP M scores (which you can't prep for), it does indicate that MCPS is doing this group of kids a real disservice if they are assuming there is no difference between a 135 SAS score and a 147 SAS score and if they giving undue emphasis on geography.
fwiw I don't have a kid at Cold Spring but I have been around kids in other MCPS magnet programs (ES, MS and HS) and bright high achieving kids in a regular W school district. There is some overlap but one big difference I have noticed is the thirst for knowledge you see amongst magnet kids. Perhaps not all of them, but as a group these kids love to learn and seek out challenge and something special happens when you put a group of kids like this in one place together. There are also far more genuine outliers in a magnet program than you would find in a regular school. This is why it is sad to hear what happened to the Cold Spring kids. An acceptance to a middle school magnet is not a "prize" for a kid whose parents force them to prep as some posters have implied, it is rather the only appropriate place for a large number of the kids currently in Cold Spring who received rejection letters.

I am starting to feel very sorry for these Cold Spring kids, who are more brilliant than any other kids in the whole school district, but who have now had their middle-school years ruined -- RUINED! Rejected and despised by MCPS; children of sorrows, acquainted with grief.

(I am not being sincere.)

Not just their middle school years. Their long-term futures. Their potential as future doctors, researchers and cancer-curers. All gone!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It looks like cold spring principal already confirmed the peer group consideration. Why do some people still try to downplay these kids’ achievements? Will there be kids with even superior scores? Likely. Someone disclosed median (97/99/97/99) of admitted. It already told you that at least half got scores not as good as 99ers. We are all entitled to our own opinions. But let us form opinions consistent with the info we obtained.

Thanks I missed that earlier post.
So the median score of accepted students was 97/99/97/99. Do we know of any rejected kids who got scores that were higher than this?

I don’t have kids applying. All my info are from thid post. Previous posts reported many 99/99/99/99 got rejected at cold spring and other HGC as well..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It looks like cold spring principal already confirmed the peer group consideration. Why do some people still try to downplay these kids’ achievements? Will there be kids with even superior scores? Likely. Someone disclosed median (97/99/97/99) of admitted. It already told you that at least half got scores not as good as 99ers. We are all entitled to our own opinions. But let us form opinions consistent with the info we obtained.

Thanks I missed that earlier post.
So the median score of accepted students was 97/99/97/99. Do we know of any rejected kids who got scores that were higher than this?

I don’t have kids applying. All my info are from thid post. Previous posts reported many 99/99/99/99 got rejected at cold spring and other HGC as well..

That is really sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It looks like cold spring principal already confirmed the peer group consideration. Why do some people still try to downplay these kids’ achievements? Will there be kids with even superior scores? Likely. Someone disclosed median (97/99/97/99) of admitted. It already told you that at least half got scores not as good as 99ers. We are all entitled to our own opinions. But let us form opinions consistent with the info we obtained.

Thanks I missed that earlier post.
So the median score of accepted students was 97/99/97/99. Do we know of any rejected kids who got scores that were higher than this?

I don’t have kids applying. All my info are from thid post. Previous posts reported many 99/99/99/99 got rejected at cold spring and other HGC as well..

That is really sad.

I don't see any such posts here. Maybe on a different listserv?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It looks like cold spring principal already confirmed the peer group consideration. Why do some people still try to downplay these kids’ achievements? Will there be kids with even superior scores? Likely. Someone disclosed median (97/99/97/99) of admitted. It already told you that at least half got scores not as good as 99ers. We are all entitled to our own opinions. But let us form opinions consistent with the info we obtained.

Thanks I missed that earlier post.
So the median score of accepted students was 97/99/97/99. Do we know of any rejected kids who got scores that were higher than this?

I don’t have kids applying. All my info are from thid post. Previous posts reported many 99/99/99/99 got rejected at cold spring and other HGC as well..

That is really sad.

I don't see any such posts here. Maybe on a different listserv?

There are a number of posts reporting straight 99's or one 98. But I believe it is correct that those posts don't say that they are from Cold Spring. I can tell you my kid is one of them and is headed to a DCC middle school with a close to 50% FARMS rate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It looks like cold spring principal already confirmed the peer group consideration. Why do some people still try to downplay these kids’ achievements? Will there be kids with even superior scores? Likely. Someone disclosed median (97/99/97/99) of admitted. It already told you that at least half got scores not as good as 99ers. We are all entitled to our own opinions. But let us form opinions consistent with the info we obtained.

Thanks I missed that earlier post.
So the median score of accepted students was 97/99/97/99. Do we know of any rejected kids who got scores that were higher than this?

I don’t have kids applying. All my info are from thid post. Previous posts reported many 99/99/99/99 got rejected at cold spring and other HGC as well..

That is really sad.

I don't see any such posts here. Maybe on a different listserv?

There are a number of posts reporting straight 99's or one 98. But I believe it is correct that those posts don't say that they are from Cold Spring. I can tell you my kid is one of them and is headed to a DCC middle school with a close to 50% FARMS rate.

My kid was another one quoted in those early threads, and she is going to Pyle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone who is not Math challenged like me explain the 99th percentile references.
According to this WA state school website, the SAS scores for the 99th percentile range between 135 and 160. That is a large range and if you are rejecting a kid from Cold Spring with a score of 150 to accept a kid from another ES with a score of 137, chances are these kids are an entire standard deviation from each other in terms of aptitude/ability (not sure what the correct word is). On another website they said that for SAS scores the mean is 100 and the standard deviation is 16 points so in the example I just gave there would be a big difference between these two kids. There is no doubt that both students need much more than an honors class in a typical MCPS MS would offer but the higher scorer would need the enrichment and acceleration more than the lower scorer surely.

https://www.nsd.org/Page/28102

We know the median was 99th percentile, we don't know the raw score that corresponds to. We don't know if the median was 99.0 or 99.9.

Yes, there is a difference, but kind of hard to argue that a 99th percentile student isn't capable of magnet work. Maybe the selection committee wasn't given raw scores, either.

Exactly. Close your computer and step away.
This wasn't some prize for the 200 kids with the highest IQs in the land.
Test results were ONE factor in selection.

Although you could argue that the kids with the higher scores might need the acceleration and enrichment more.
If the higher COGAT test scores are also echoed by higher MAP R and higher MAP M scores (which you can't prep for), it does indicate that MCPS is doing this group of kids a real disservice if they are assuming there is no difference between a 135 SAS score and a 147 SAS score and if they giving undue emphasis on geography.
fwiw I don't have a kid at Cold Spring but I have been around kids in other MCPS magnet programs (ES, MS and HS) and bright high achieving kids in a regular W school district. There is some overlap but one big difference I have noticed is the thirst for knowledge you see amongst magnet kids. Perhaps not all of them, but as a group these kids love to learn and seek out challenge and something special happens when you put a group of kids like this in one place together. There are also far more genuine outliers in a magnet program than you would find in a regular school. This is why it is sad to hear what happened to the Cold Spring kids. An acceptance to a middle school magnet is not a "prize" for a kid whose parents force them to prep as some posters have implied, it is rather the only appropriate place for a large number of the kids currently in Cold Spring who received rejection letters.

And yet here you are in puffing up telephone tree tales about the broken hearted CS teacher and principal. Sounds like you're in the tutoring industry and that's your dog in this fight.

[Anonymous]

I do hope the disappointment of Cold Spring parents spurs them into action on better MS curriculum for advanced learners as a whole.

Cold Spring had been alone among the W feeder CES (ex HGC) in sending significant numbers of kids to magnet schools ; in the Metis report, if you get to the appendices, you can see the break down of numbers of kids who went magnet from the various middle schools. Westland, Pyle, North Bethesda not well-represented; the Potomac schools have higher numbers. Thus, among the Ws of the world, Cold Spring would feel any adjustment to the admissions process moreso than others.

I empathize with the shocked parents and kids, but don't begrudge MCPS's change to the process to make it more inclusive overall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do hope the disappointment of Cold Spring parents spurs them into action on better MS curriculum for advanced learners as a whole.

Cold Spring had been alone among the W feeder CES (ex HGC) in sending significant numbers of kids to magnet schools ; in the Metis report, if you get to the appendices, you can see the break down of numbers of kids who went magnet from the various middle schools. Westland, Pyle, North Bethesda not well-represented; the Potomac schools have higher numbers. Thus, among the Ws of the world, Cold Spring would feel any adjustment to the admissions process moreso than others.

I empathize with the shocked parents and kids, but don't begrudge MCPS's change to the process to make it more inclusive overall.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone who is not Math challenged like me explain the 99th percentile references.
According to this WA state school website, the SAS scores for the 99th percentile range between 135 and 160. That is a large range and if you are rejecting a kid from Cold Spring with a score of 150 to accept a kid from another ES with a score of 137, chances are these kids are an entire standard deviation from each other in terms of aptitude/ability (not sure what the correct word is). On another website they said that for SAS scores the mean is 100 and the standard deviation is 16 points so in the example I just gave there would be a big difference between these two kids. There is no doubt that both students need much more than an honors class in a typical MCPS MS would offer but the higher scorer would need the enrichment and acceleration more than the lower scorer surely.

https://www.nsd.org/Page/28102

We know the median was 99th percentile, we don't know the raw score that corresponds to. We don't know if the median was 99.0 or 99.9.

Yes, there is a difference, but kind of hard to argue that a 99th percentile student isn't capable of magnet work. Maybe the selection committee wasn't given raw scores, either.

Exactly. Close your computer and step away.
This wasn't some prize for the 200 kids with the highest IQs in the land.
Test results were ONE factor in selection.

Although you could argue that the kids with the higher scores might need the acceleration and enrichment more.
If the higher COGAT test scores are also echoed by higher MAP R and higher MAP M scores (which you can't prep for), it does indicate that MCPS is doing this group of kids a real disservice if they are assuming there is no difference between a 135 SAS score and a 147 SAS score and if they giving undue emphasis on geography.
[b]fwiw I don't have a kid at Cold Spring but I have been around kids in other MCPS magnet programs (ES, MS and HS) and bright high achieving kids in a regular W school district. There is some overlap but one big difference I have noticed is the thirst for knowledge you see amongst magnet kids. Perhaps not all of them, but as a group these kids love to learn and seek out challenge and something special happens when you put a group of kids like this in one place together. There are also far more genuine outliers in a magnet program than you would find in a regular school. This is why it is sad to hear what happened to the Cold Spring kids. An acceptance to a middle school magnet is not a "prize" for a kid whose parents force them to prep as some posters have implied, it is rather the only appropriate place for a large number of the kids currently in Cold Spring who received rejection letters. [/b]

And yet here you are in puffing up telephone tree tales about the broken hearted CS teacher and principal. Sounds like you're in the tutoring industry and that's your dog in this fight.

No just a parent whose kid has attended magnet programs in MCPS through high school (fwiw Barnsley not Cold Spring). Not a tutor and never sent my kid to a tutor. My post is the one above yours in bold. The ones above mine are from a DP. Not sure what a telephone tree tale is.

[Anonymous]

^Dear "telephone tree tale" lady
I tried to highlight my post in bold so you could see who you were responding to but it did not all show up in bold. Again, I have no connection with a tutoring service and have never used one. There is a real obsession on dcum with tutors for some reason. It is very unfair to the kids in the magnet programs to imply that is the main reason they get good test scores.
here is my original post:
"Although you could argue that the kids with the higher scores might need the acceleration and enrichment more.
If the higher COGAT test scores are also echoed by higher MAP R and higher MAP M scores (which you can't prep for), it does indicate that MCPS is doing this group of kids a real disservice if they are assuming there is no difference between a 135 SAS score and a 147 SAS score and if they giving undue emphasis on geography. fwiw I don't have a kid at Cold Spring but I have been around kids in other MCPS magnet programs (ES, MS and HS) and bright high achieving kids in a regular W school district. There is some overlap but one big difference I have noticed is the thirst for knowledge you see amongst magnet kids. Perhaps not all of them, but as a group these kids love to learn and seek out challenge and something special happens when you put a group of kids like this in one place together. There are also far more genuine outliers in a magnet program than you would find in a regular school. This is why it is sad to hear what happened to the Cold Spring kids. An acceptance to a middle school magnet is not a "prize" for a kid whose parents force them to prep as some posters have implied, it is rather the only appropriate place for a large number of the kids currently in Cold Spring who received rejection letters."

[Anonymous]

As a parent who has a child finishing up at TPMS Magnet I can tell you that unless a student has a support structure at home, they will have difficulty succeeding. If filling out an application was too overwhelming, there is probably little chance they will be able to keep up with the workload. Political correctness will not allow MCPS to ever admit this so inevitably standards and expectations will be lowered.

I know that the private schools are excited by these changes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Although you could argue that the kids with the higher scores might need the acceleration and enrichment more.
If the higher COGAT test scores are also echoed by higher MAP R and higher MAP M scores (which you can't prep for), it does indicate that MCPS is doing this group of kids a real disservice if they are assuming there is no difference between a 135 SAS score and a 147 SAS score and if they giving undue emphasis on geography.
fwiw I don't have a kid at Cold Spring but I have been around kids in other MCPS magnet programs (ES, MS and HS) and bright high achieving kids in a regular W school district. There is some overlap but one big difference I have noticed is the thirst for knowledge you see amongst magnet kids. Perhaps not all of them, but as a group these kids love to learn and seek out challenge and something special happens when you put a group of kids like this in one place together. There are also far more genuine outliers in a magnet program than you would find in a regular school. This is why it is sad to hear what happened to the Cold Spring kids. An acceptance to a middle school magnet is not a "prize" for a kid whose parents force them to prep as some posters have implied, it is rather the only appropriate place for a large number of the kids currently in Cold Spring who received rejection letters.

I am starting to feel very sorry for these Cold Spring kids, who are more brilliant than any other kids in the whole school district, but who have now had their middle-school years ruined -- RUINED! Rejected and despised by MCPS; children of sorrows, acquainted with grief.

(I am not being sincere.)

Me too.