Antizionism is not antisemitism/the current conflict

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Over the decades, Palestinians have repeatedly pursued peaceful and nonviolent paths toward a just resolution with Israel — including diplomacy through the PLO’s recognition of Israel in 1988, participation in peace talks like Oslo and Camp David, grassroots nonviolent protests in places like Bil’in and Sheikh Jarrah, civil society initiatives for coexistence, and appeals to international law and the UN. Despite these efforts, continued occupation, settlement expansion, and lack of political progress have undermined peaceful strategies and fueled cycles of frustration.

Yeah see the thing about nonviolence is it kind of has to be your EXCLUSIVE approach. If “civil society initiatives” and “nonviolent protests” (both of which I wholeheartedly support) happen ALONGSIDE constant terrorism, they’re not going to have an effect. For reference, Oslo was in 1993 and Camp David was in 2000. In 1994 there were 26 terrorist attacks in Israel and in 2001 there were 118: https://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/terrisraelsum.html.

Thank you for dictating “the rules” …

Now, then. Please apply them to the attitudes and actual conduct of Zionists pre-1948 and report back to us.

I’m assuming we will hear from you that non-violence was the exclusive approach toward “getting what the Zionists wanted”, yeah?

That’s what I thought. Hypocrite.

DP. I don’t think anyone would really defend the conduct of the Irgun and other Jewish militias in Mandatory Palestine today, but let’s not pretend that it was only “Zionists” engaging in violence and terrorism then. There was basically a civil war within the territory for years under the British.

Sadly, you’re mistaken. There are PLENTY of people that defend it, excuse it, obfuscate the facts to dismiss criticism of what they did, and worse - I’ve personally observed posters in these threads justifying it.

To be honest, my use of the word “conduct” in lieu of what more appropriately describes what they did (committed heinous acts of terrorism) is a representative example of how badly Zionists has distorted the history.

We don’t talk about Nazi “conduct”. Why TF am I identifying what those groups did (and yes, they did far worse than their Arab contemporaries did) as mere misconduct? Because of the revisionist history that the West has been selling about Israel’s establishment for decades.

Stop comparing Israel to Nazi Germany. Holocaust inversion is antisemitic and beyond that it’s just lazy.

Contrary to what you apparently believe, you are not the authority to dictate what is and what isn’t a suitable comparison.

I know you think you can control what can and what cannot be said by smearing others as anti-semitic, but that ship has sailed, kemosabe.

I mean, I do think Jews get to define what antisemitism is actually. Do you think white people should define anti-black racism? Should men get to define misogyny? People who consider themselves progressive generally hold that those who do not experience racism need to listen, to learn, to accept and not challenge, when others speak about their experiences. Except where Jews are involved. Non-Jews are still very happy to tell Jews whether or not things said about them are antisemitic.

Holocaust inversion is antisemitic, full stop. There is a reason you’re invoking the Nazis and not, say, Stalin or Pol Pot or George W. Bush. And it’s not because the Holocaust is most analogous to the situation in Gaza (it is so, so, so not - as Deborah Lipstadt has said, comparisons to the Nazis “elevate by a factor of a zillion any wrongdoings Israel might have done, and lessen by a factor of a zillion what the Germans did”). It’s because you know invoking Nazis will inflict the greatest amount of psychic harm on Jews. That’s WHY you do it. That’s why use Jews’ own tragic history as a weapon to beat them with.

It’s presumptuous to try to tell someone what they mean and believe. Perhaps allow the person to explain the meaning behind what they are saying before jumping to malicious conclusions.

It’s presumptuous to tell a Jew they can’t recognize antisemitism when it’s plainly staring them in the face. Regardless of this person’s individual intent, I am telling you comparisons to the Nazis are antisemitic.

If you compared Black Lives Matter activists to southern white lynch mobs, I’m pretty sure people would accurately call you out as racist, even if there are very, very broadly speaking similarities between the two (they have both been involved in violence).

Your comparison is repulsive.

BLM protests : lynch mobs against the backdrop of slavery in this country = Israeli atrocities : Nazi atrocities?

Are you f^cking serious?

YOUR comparison is repulsive, my friend. Hamas started a war; Israel is fighting that war to try to defeat them. Have they committed human rights violations? Probably. Every modern military has and does, including the US military. That doesn’t make them equivalent to NAZI GERMANY. Their intention is not to annihilate the Palestinians. If it is, they’re doing a spectacularly bad job of it despite their obvious military superiority. In fact, in EIGHTY YEARS of war, 135,000 Palestinians, roughly nine tenths of one percent of Palestinians have been killed.

You are comparing that conflict to the Holocaust, an intentional genocide which wiped out six million Jews, roughly one third of the global Jewish population. It’s a gross comparison. It’s not accurate, it doesn’t advance the discourse in any way, and it’s intended to minimize Jews’ own tragedy and use it against them. Stop it already.

Are you denying that there is no genocide in Gaza?

No I don’t believe a genocide is occurring in Gaza. The difference between genocide and war is intent, and the requisite intent just isn’t there. I don’t deny that it’s a dire humanitarian crisis, and I (along with most Jews and Israelis) would like to see it end as soon as possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The IDF is still bombing Gaza. They did so again today and killed their 186th journalist and more woman and children. Enough.

https://metro.co.uk/2025/06/30/idf-kills-women-children-gaza-beachfront-cafe-bombing-23543840/

No one is denying that innocent people are being killed. Israel is fighting a war that Hamas started, and Hamas is losing that war. In war, lots of innocent people die. Comparisons to Nazi Germany are ridiculous and antisemitic.

This is a remarkably biased (and wrong) assertion. But you're likely one of those people who thinks this all 'started' on October 7th.

The current war in Gaza incontrovertibly started on 10/7. You think this would be happening with no 10/7?

I think Netanhitler was looking for his opportunity. He knew 10/7 was in the works, and decided against intervening.

Even if you disagree on that, you cannot ignore what was happening prior. The incredible naiveté of Israelis (and others) to even be shocked, is telling about what a privileged life they led.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The IDF is still bombing Gaza. They did so again today and killed their 186th journalist and more woman and children. Enough.

https://metro.co.uk/2025/06/30/idf-kills-women-children-gaza-beachfront-cafe-bombing-23543840/

No one is denying that innocent people are being killed. Israel is fighting a war that Hamas started, and Hamas is losing that war. In war, lots of innocent people die. Comparisons to Nazi Germany are ridiculous and antisemitic.

This is a remarkably biased (and wrong) assertion. But you're likely one of those people who thinks this all 'started' on October 7th.

The current war in Gaza incontrovertibly started on 10/7. You think this would be happening with no 10/7?

I think Netanhitler was looking for his opportunity. He knew 10/7 was in the works, and decided against intervening.

Even if you disagree on that, you cannot ignore what was happening prior. The incredible naiveté of Israelis (and others) to even be shocked, is telling about what a privileged life they led.

For all those reading, this post is like a masterclass in antisemitism lol:

1. “Netanhilter”: comparing Israel to Nazi Germany.
2. “He knew 10/7 was in the works, and decided against intervening”: conspiracy theory attributing omnipotence to Jews and blaming them for their own victimization.
3. “telling about what a privileged life they led”: accusing Jews of being a “privileged” group.

At least hide it better, FFS. Antisemites just can’t help themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Over the decades, Palestinians have repeatedly pursued peaceful and nonviolent paths toward a just resolution with Israel — including diplomacy through the PLO’s recognition of Israel in 1988, participation in peace talks like Oslo and Camp David, grassroots nonviolent protests in places like Bil’in and Sheikh Jarrah, civil society initiatives for coexistence, and appeals to international law and the UN. Despite these efforts, continued occupation, settlement expansion, and lack of political progress have undermined peaceful strategies and fueled cycles of frustration.

Yeah see the thing about nonviolence is it kind of has to be your EXCLUSIVE approach. If “civil society initiatives” and “nonviolent protests” (both of which I wholeheartedly support) happen ALONGSIDE constant terrorism, they’re not going to have an effect. For reference, Oslo was in 1993 and Camp David was in 2000. In 1994 there were 26 terrorist attacks in Israel and in 2001 there were 118: https://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/terrisraelsum.html.

Thank you for dictating “the rules” …

Now, then. Please apply them to the attitudes and actual conduct of Zionists pre-1948 and report back to us.

I’m assuming we will hear from you that non-violence was the exclusive approach toward “getting what the Zionists wanted”, yeah?

That’s what I thought. Hypocrite.

DP. I don’t think anyone would really defend the conduct of the Irgun and other Jewish militias in Mandatory Palestine today, but let’s not pretend that it was only “Zionists” engaging in violence and terrorism then. There was basically a civil war within the territory for years under the British.

Sadly, you’re mistaken. There are PLENTY of people that defend it, excuse it, obfuscate the facts to dismiss criticism of what they did, and worse - I’ve personally observed posters in these threads justifying it.

To be honest, my use of the word “conduct” in lieu of what more appropriately describes what they did (committed heinous acts of terrorism) is a representative example of how badly Zionists has distorted the history.

We don’t talk about Nazi “conduct”. Why TF am I identifying what those groups did (and yes, they did far worse than their Arab contemporaries did) as mere misconduct? Because of the revisionist history that the West has been selling about Israel’s establishment for decades.

Stop comparing Israel to Nazi Germany. Holocaust inversion is antisemitic and beyond that it’s just lazy.

Contrary to what you apparently believe, you are not the authority to dictate what is and what isn’t a suitable comparison.

I know you think you can control what can and what cannot be said by smearing others as anti-semitic, but that ship has sailed, kemosabe.

I mean, I do think Jews get to define what antisemitism is actually. Do you think white people should define anti-black racism? Should men get to define misogyny? People who consider themselves progressive generally hold that those who do not experience racism need to listen, to learn, to accept and not challenge, when others speak about their experiences. Except where Jews are involved. Non-Jews are still very happy to tell Jews whether or not things said about them are antisemitic.

Holocaust inversion is antisemitic, full stop. There is a reason you’re invoking the Nazis and not, say, Stalin or Pol Pot or George W. Bush. And it’s not because the Holocaust is most analogous to the situation in Gaza (it is so, so, so not - as Deborah Lipstadt has said, comparisons to the Nazis “elevate by a factor of a zillion any wrongdoings Israel might have done, and lessen by a factor of a zillion what the Germans did”). It’s because you know invoking Nazis will inflict the greatest amount of psychic harm on Jews. That’s WHY you do it. That’s why use Jews’ own tragic history as a weapon to beat them with.

It’s presumptuous to try to tell someone what they mean and believe. Perhaps allow the person to explain the meaning behind what they are saying before jumping to malicious conclusions.

It’s presumptuous to tell a Jew they can’t recognize antisemitism when it’s plainly staring them in the face. Regardless of this person’s individual intent, I am telling you comparisons to the Nazis are antisemitic.

If you compared Black Lives Matter activists to southern white lynch mobs, I’m pretty sure people would accurately call you out as racist, even if there are very, very broadly speaking similarities between the two (they have both been involved in violence).

Your comparison is repulsive.

BLM protests : lynch mobs against the backdrop of slavery in this country = Israeli atrocities : Nazi atrocities?

Are you f^cking serious?

YOUR comparison is repulsive, my friend. Hamas started a war; Israel is fighting that war to try to defeat them. Have they committed human rights violations? Probably. Every modern military has and does, including the US military. That doesn’t make them equivalent to NAZI GERMANY. Their intention is not to annihilate the Palestinians. If it is, they’re doing a spectacularly bad job of it despite their obvious military superiority. In fact, in EIGHTY YEARS of war, 135,000 Palestinians, roughly nine tenths of one percent of Palestinians have been killed.

You are comparing that conflict to the Holocaust, an intentional genocide which wiped out six million Jews, roughly one third of the global Jewish population. It’s a gross comparison. It’s not accurate, it doesn’t advance the discourse in any way, and it’s intended to minimize Jews’ own tragedy and use it against them. Stop it already.

Are you denying that there is no genocide in Gaza?

No I don’t believe a genocide is occurring in Gaza. The difference between genocide and war is intent, and the requisite intent just isn’t there. I don’t deny that it’s a dire humanitarian crisis, and I (along with most Jews and Israelis) would like to see it end as soon as possible.

Maybe you should go listen to some of the Israeli politicians like Ben Gvir, Smotrich and even Netanyahu before you assume there is no intent. There's a reason why the ICC/ICJ have arrest warrants out for these criminals.

And no, most Israelis support ethnic cleansing/genocide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Over the decades, Palestinians have repeatedly pursued peaceful and nonviolent paths toward a just resolution with Israel — including diplomacy through the PLO’s recognition of Israel in 1988, participation in peace talks like Oslo and Camp David, grassroots nonviolent protests in places like Bil’in and Sheikh Jarrah, civil society initiatives for coexistence, and appeals to international law and the UN. Despite these efforts, continued occupation, settlement expansion, and lack of political progress have undermined peaceful strategies and fueled cycles of frustration.

Yeah see the thing about nonviolence is it kind of has to be your EXCLUSIVE approach. If “civil society initiatives” and “nonviolent protests” (both of which I wholeheartedly support) happen ALONGSIDE constant terrorism, they’re not going to have an effect. For reference, Oslo was in 1993 and Camp David was in 2000. In 1994 there were 26 terrorist attacks in Israel and in 2001 there were 118: https://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/terrisraelsum.html.

Thank you for dictating “the rules” …

Now, then. Please apply them to the attitudes and actual conduct of Zionists pre-1948 and report back to us.

I’m assuming we will hear from you that non-violence was the exclusive approach toward “getting what the Zionists wanted”, yeah?

That’s what I thought. Hypocrite.

DP. I don’t think anyone would really defend the conduct of the Irgun and other Jewish militias in Mandatory Palestine today, but let’s not pretend that it was only “Zionists” engaging in violence and terrorism then. There was basically a civil war within the territory for years under the British.

Sadly, you’re mistaken. There are PLENTY of people that defend it, excuse it, obfuscate the facts to dismiss criticism of what they did, and worse - I’ve personally observed posters in these threads justifying it.

To be honest, my use of the word “conduct” in lieu of what more appropriately describes what they did (committed heinous acts of terrorism) is a representative example of how badly Zionists has distorted the history.

We don’t talk about Nazi “conduct”. Why TF am I identifying what those groups did (and yes, they did far worse than their Arab contemporaries did) as mere misconduct? Because of the revisionist history that the West has been selling about Israel’s establishment for decades.

Stop comparing Israel to Nazi Germany. Holocaust inversion is antisemitic and beyond that it’s just lazy.

Contrary to what you apparently believe, you are not the authority to dictate what is and what isn’t a suitable comparison.

I know you think you can control what can and what cannot be said by smearing others as anti-semitic, but that ship has sailed, kemosabe.

I mean, I do think Jews get to define what antisemitism is actually. Do you think white people should define anti-black racism? Should men get to define misogyny? People who consider themselves progressive generally hold that those who do not experience racism need to listen, to learn, to accept and not challenge, when others speak about their experiences. Except where Jews are involved. Non-Jews are still very happy to tell Jews whether or not things said about them are antisemitic.

Holocaust inversion is antisemitic, full stop. There is a reason you’re invoking the Nazis and not, say, Stalin or Pol Pot or George W. Bush. And it’s not because the Holocaust is most analogous to the situation in Gaza (it is so, so, so not - as Deborah Lipstadt has said, comparisons to the Nazis “elevate by a factor of a zillion any wrongdoings Israel might have done, and lessen by a factor of a zillion what the Germans did”). It’s because you know invoking Nazis will inflict the greatest amount of psychic harm on Jews. That’s WHY you do it. That’s why use Jews’ own tragic history as a weapon to beat them with.

It’s presumptuous to try to tell someone what they mean and believe. Perhaps allow the person to explain the meaning behind what they are saying before jumping to malicious conclusions.

It’s presumptuous to tell a Jew they can’t recognize antisemitism when it’s plainly staring them in the face. Regardless of this person’s individual intent, I am telling you comparisons to the Nazis are antisemitic.

If you compared Black Lives Matter activists to southern white lynch mobs, I’m pretty sure people would accurately call you out as racist, even if there are very, very broadly speaking similarities between the two (they have both been involved in violence).

Your comparison is repulsive.

BLM protests : lynch mobs against the backdrop of slavery in this country = Israeli atrocities : Nazi atrocities?

Are you f^cking serious?

YOUR comparison is repulsive, my friend. Hamas started a war; Israel is fighting that war to try to defeat them. Have they committed human rights violations? Probably. Every modern military has and does, including the US military. That doesn’t make them equivalent to NAZI GERMANY. Their intention is not to annihilate the Palestinians. If it is, they’re doing a spectacularly bad job of it despite their obvious military superiority. In fact, in EIGHTY YEARS of war, 135,000 Palestinians, roughly nine tenths of one percent of Palestinians have been killed.

You are comparing that conflict to the Holocaust, an intentional genocide which wiped out six million Jews, roughly one third of the global Jewish population. It’s a gross comparison. It’s not accurate, it doesn’t advance the discourse in any way, and it’s intended to minimize Jews’ own tragedy and use it against them. Stop it already.

Are you denying that there is no genocide in Gaza?

No I don’t believe a genocide is occurring in Gaza. The difference between genocide and war is intent, and the requisite intent just isn’t there. I don’t deny that it’s a dire humanitarian crisis, and I (along with most Jews and Israelis) would like to see it end as soon as possible.

Maybe you should go listen to some of the Israeli politicians like Ben Gvir, Smotrich and even Netanyahu before you assume there is no intent. There's a reason why the ICC/ICJ have arrest warrants out for these criminals.

And no, most Israelis support ethnic cleansing/genocide.

I have seen the statements of Ben Gvir and Smotrich and agree that they are disgusting bigots (we have those in the US government too), but nothing they have said establishes intent to commit genocide. Nor does the actual military strategy of the IDF. Indifference to human suffering, perhaps. That’s a feature of every war, though.

Most Israelis DO NOT support ethnic cleansing/genocide, even if you’re defining that as support for the current war in Gaza. Not even most members of Likud (Netanyahu’s party) support it. A poll that came out a few days ago showed that roughly 70% of Israelis support ending the war in Gaza and signing an agreement for the release of hostages. Feel free to continue wildly speculating re: what Jews and Israelis think though. Don’t let facts get in your way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Over the decades, Palestinians have repeatedly pursued peaceful and nonviolent paths toward a just resolution with Israel — including diplomacy through the PLO’s recognition of Israel in 1988, participation in peace talks like Oslo and Camp David, grassroots nonviolent protests in places like Bil’in and Sheikh Jarrah, civil society initiatives for coexistence, and appeals to international law and the UN. Despite these efforts, continued occupation, settlement expansion, and lack of political progress have undermined peaceful strategies and fueled cycles of frustration.

Yeah see the thing about nonviolence is it kind of has to be your EXCLUSIVE approach. If “civil society initiatives” and “nonviolent protests” (both of which I wholeheartedly support) happen ALONGSIDE constant terrorism, they’re not going to have an effect. For reference, Oslo was in 1993 and Camp David was in 2000. In 1994 there were 26 terrorist attacks in Israel and in 2001 there were 118: https://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/terrisraelsum.html.

Thank you for dictating “the rules” …

Now, then. Please apply them to the attitudes and actual conduct of Zionists pre-1948 and report back to us.

I’m assuming we will hear from you that non-violence was the exclusive approach toward “getting what the Zionists wanted”, yeah?

That’s what I thought. Hypocrite.

DP. I don’t think anyone would really defend the conduct of the Irgun and other Jewish militias in Mandatory Palestine today, but let’s not pretend that it was only “Zionists” engaging in violence and terrorism then. There was basically a civil war within the territory for years under the British.

Sadly, you’re mistaken. There are PLENTY of people that defend it, excuse it, obfuscate the facts to dismiss criticism of what they did, and worse - I’ve personally observed posters in these threads justifying it.

To be honest, my use of the word “conduct” in lieu of what more appropriately describes what they did (committed heinous acts of terrorism) is a representative example of how badly Zionists has distorted the history.

We don’t talk about Nazi “conduct”. Why TF am I identifying what those groups did (and yes, they did far worse than their Arab contemporaries did) as mere misconduct? Because of the revisionist history that the West has been selling about Israel’s establishment for decades.

Stop comparing Israel to Nazi Germany. Holocaust inversion is antisemitic and beyond that it’s just lazy.

Contrary to what you apparently believe, you are not the authority to dictate what is and what isn’t a suitable comparison.

I know you think you can control what can and what cannot be said by smearing others as anti-semitic, but that ship has sailed, kemosabe.

I mean, I do think Jews get to define what antisemitism is actually. Do you think white people should define anti-black racism? Should men get to define misogyny? People who consider themselves progressive generally hold that those who do not experience racism need to listen, to learn, to accept and not challenge, when others speak about their experiences. Except where Jews are involved. Non-Jews are still very happy to tell Jews whether or not things said about them are antisemitic.

Holocaust inversion is antisemitic, full stop. There is a reason you’re invoking the Nazis and not, say, Stalin or Pol Pot or George W. Bush. And it’s not because the Holocaust is most analogous to the situation in Gaza (it is so, so, so not - as Deborah Lipstadt has said, comparisons to the Nazis “elevate by a factor of a zillion any wrongdoings Israel might have done, and lessen by a factor of a zillion what the Germans did”). It’s because you know invoking Nazis will inflict the greatest amount of psychic harm on Jews. That’s WHY you do it. That’s why use Jews’ own tragic history as a weapon to beat them with.

It’s presumptuous to try to tell someone what they mean and believe. Perhaps allow the person to explain the meaning behind what they are saying before jumping to malicious conclusions.

It’s presumptuous to tell a Jew they can’t recognize antisemitism when it’s plainly staring them in the face. Regardless of this person’s individual intent, I am telling you comparisons to the Nazis are antisemitic.

If you compared Black Lives Matter activists to southern white lynch mobs, I’m pretty sure people would accurately call you out as racist, even if there are very, very broadly speaking similarities between the two (they have both been involved in violence).

Your comparison is repulsive.

BLM protests : lynch mobs against the backdrop of slavery in this country = Israeli atrocities : Nazi atrocities?

Are you f^cking serious?

YOUR comparison is repulsive, my friend. Hamas started a war; Israel is fighting that war to try to defeat them. Have they committed human rights violations? Probably. Every modern military has and does, including the US military. That doesn’t make them equivalent to NAZI GERMANY. Their intention is not to annihilate the Palestinians. If it is, they’re doing a spectacularly bad job of it despite their obvious military superiority. In fact, in EIGHTY YEARS of war, 135,000 Palestinians, roughly nine tenths of one percent of Palestinians have been killed.

You are comparing that conflict to the Holocaust, an intentional genocide which wiped out six million Jews, roughly one third of the global Jewish population. It’s a gross comparison. It’s not accurate, it doesn’t advance the discourse in any way, and it’s intended to minimize Jews’ own tragedy and use it against them. Stop it already.

Are you denying that there is no genocide in Gaza?

No I don’t believe a genocide is occurring in Gaza. The difference between genocide and war is intent, and the requisite intent just isn’t there. I don’t deny that it’s a dire humanitarian crisis, and I (along with most Jews and Israelis) would like to see it end as soon as possible.

Maybe you should go listen to some of the Israeli politicians like Ben Gvir, Smotrich and even Netanyahu before you assume there is no intent. There's a reason why the ICC/ICJ have arrest warrants out for these criminals.

And no, most Israelis support ethnic cleansing/genocide.

I have seen the statements of Ben Gvir and Smotrich and agree that they are disgusting bigots (we have those in the US government too), but nothing they have said establishes intent to commit genocide. Nor does the actual military strategy of the IDF. Indifference to human suffering, perhaps. That’s a feature of every war, though.

Most Israelis DO NOT support ethnic cleansing/genocide, even if you’re defining that as support for the current war in Gaza. Not even most members of Likud (Netanyahu’s party) support it. A poll that came out a few days ago showed that roughly 70% of Israelis support ending the war in Gaza and signing an agreement for the release of hostages. Feel free to continue wildly speculating re: what Jews and Israelis think though. Don’t let facts get in your way.

By contrast, FYI, an overwhelming majority of people in both Gaza and the West Bank support the October 7th attack. There has been extensive polling on this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Over the decades, Palestinians have repeatedly pursued peaceful and nonviolent paths toward a just resolution with Israel — including diplomacy through the PLO’s recognition of Israel in 1988, participation in peace talks like Oslo and Camp David, grassroots nonviolent protests in places like Bil’in and Sheikh Jarrah, civil society initiatives for coexistence, and appeals to international law and the UN. Despite these efforts, continued occupation, settlement expansion, and lack of political progress have undermined peaceful strategies and fueled cycles of frustration.

Yeah see the thing about nonviolence is it kind of has to be your EXCLUSIVE approach. If “civil society initiatives” and “nonviolent protests” (both of which I wholeheartedly support) happen ALONGSIDE constant terrorism, they’re not going to have an effect. For reference, Oslo was in 1993 and Camp David was in 2000. In 1994 there were 26 terrorist attacks in Israel and in 2001 there were 118: https://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/terrisraelsum.html.

Thank you for dictating “the rules” …

Now, then. Please apply them to the attitudes and actual conduct of Zionists pre-1948 and report back to us.

I’m assuming we will hear from you that non-violence was the exclusive approach toward “getting what the Zionists wanted”, yeah?

That’s what I thought. Hypocrite.

DP. I don’t think anyone would really defend the conduct of the Irgun and other Jewish militias in Mandatory Palestine today, but let’s not pretend that it was only “Zionists” engaging in violence and terrorism then. There was basically a civil war within the territory for years under the British.

Sadly, you’re mistaken. There are PLENTY of people that defend it, excuse it, obfuscate the facts to dismiss criticism of what they did, and worse - I’ve personally observed posters in these threads justifying it.

To be honest, my use of the word “conduct” in lieu of what more appropriately describes what they did (committed heinous acts of terrorism) is a representative example of how badly Zionists has distorted the history.

We don’t talk about Nazi “conduct”. Why TF am I identifying what those groups did (and yes, they did far worse than their Arab contemporaries did) as mere misconduct? Because of the revisionist history that the West has been selling about Israel’s establishment for decades.

Stop comparing Israel to Nazi Germany. Holocaust inversion is antisemitic and beyond that it’s just lazy.

Contrary to what you apparently believe, you are not the authority to dictate what is and what isn’t a suitable comparison.

I know you think you can control what can and what cannot be said by smearing others as anti-semitic, but that ship has sailed, kemosabe.

I mean, I do think Jews get to define what antisemitism is actually. Do you think white people should define anti-black racism? Should men get to define misogyny? People who consider themselves progressive generally hold that those who do not experience racism need to listen, to learn, to accept and not challenge, when others speak about their experiences. Except where Jews are involved. Non-Jews are still very happy to tell Jews whether or not things said about them are antisemitic.

Holocaust inversion is antisemitic, full stop. There is a reason you’re invoking the Nazis and not, say, Stalin or Pol Pot or George W. Bush. And it’s not because the Holocaust is most analogous to the situation in Gaza (it is so, so, so not - as Deborah Lipstadt has said, comparisons to the Nazis “elevate by a factor of a zillion any wrongdoings Israel might have done, and lessen by a factor of a zillion what the Germans did”). It’s because you know invoking Nazis will inflict the greatest amount of psychic harm on Jews. That’s WHY you do it. That’s why use Jews’ own tragic history as a weapon to beat them with.

It’s presumptuous to try to tell someone what they mean and believe. Perhaps allow the person to explain the meaning behind what they are saying before jumping to malicious conclusions.

It’s presumptuous to tell a Jew they can’t recognize antisemitism when it’s plainly staring them in the face. Regardless of this person’s individual intent, I am telling you comparisons to the Nazis are antisemitic.

If you compared Black Lives Matter activists to southern white lynch mobs, I’m pretty sure people would accurately call you out as racist, even if there are very, very broadly speaking similarities between the two (they have both been involved in violence).

Your comparison is repulsive.

BLM protests : lynch mobs against the backdrop of slavery in this country = Israeli atrocities : Nazi atrocities?

Are you f^cking serious?

YOUR comparison is repulsive, my friend. Hamas started a war; Israel is fighting that war to try to defeat them. Have they committed human rights violations? Probably. Every modern military has and does, including the US military. That doesn’t make them equivalent to NAZI GERMANY. Their intention is not to annihilate the Palestinians. If it is, they’re doing a spectacularly bad job of it despite their obvious military superiority. In fact, in EIGHTY YEARS of war, 135,000 Palestinians, roughly nine tenths of one percent of Palestinians have been killed.

You are comparing that conflict to the Holocaust, an intentional genocide which wiped out six million Jews, roughly one third of the global Jewish population. It’s a gross comparison. It’s not accurate, it doesn’t advance the discourse in any way, and it’s intended to minimize Jews’ own tragedy and use it against them. Stop it already.

Are you denying that there is no genocide in Gaza?

No I don’t believe a genocide is occurring in Gaza. The difference between genocide and war is intent, and the requisite intent just isn’t there. I don’t deny that it’s a dire humanitarian crisis, and I (along with most Jews and Israelis) would like to see it end as soon as possible.

Maybe you should go listen to some of the Israeli politicians like Ben Gvir, Smotrich and even Netanyahu before you assume there is no intent. There's a reason why the ICC/ICJ have arrest warrants out for these criminals.

And no, most Israelis support ethnic cleansing/genocide.

I have seen the statements of Ben Gvir and Smotrich and agree that they are disgusting bigots (we have those in the US government too), but nothing they have said establishes intent to commit genocide. Nor does the actual military strategy of the IDF. Indifference to human suffering, perhaps. That’s a feature of every war, though.

Most Israelis DO NOT support ethnic cleansing/genocide, even if you’re defining that as support for the current war in Gaza. Not even most members of Likud (Netanyahu’s party) support it. A poll that came out a few days ago showed that roughly 70% of Israelis support ending the war in Gaza and signing an agreement for the release of hostages. Feel free to continue wildly speculating re: what Jews and Israelis think though. Don’t let facts get in your way.

Please. Just because they haven’t yelled “death to Palestinians and Palestine” from the roof tops doesn’t matter at all. Look at what they actually doing, cutting off water, bombing schools and hospitals, promoting settlements, cutting off aid, effectively fencing a whole population in and restricting their freedom of movement, burning their crops, I could go on but do I really need to?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Over the decades, Palestinians have repeatedly pursued peaceful and nonviolent paths toward a just resolution with Israel — including diplomacy through the PLO’s recognition of Israel in 1988, participation in peace talks like Oslo and Camp David, grassroots nonviolent protests in places like Bil’in and Sheikh Jarrah, civil society initiatives for coexistence, and appeals to international law and the UN. Despite these efforts, continued occupation, settlement expansion, and lack of political progress have undermined peaceful strategies and fueled cycles of frustration.

Yeah see the thing about nonviolence is it kind of has to be your EXCLUSIVE approach. If “civil society initiatives” and “nonviolent protests” (both of which I wholeheartedly support) happen ALONGSIDE constant terrorism, they’re not going to have an effect. For reference, Oslo was in 1993 and Camp David was in 2000. In 1994 there were 26 terrorist attacks in Israel and in 2001 there were 118: https://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/terrisraelsum.html.

Thank you for dictating “the rules” …

Now, then. Please apply them to the attitudes and actual conduct of Zionists pre-1948 and report back to us.

I’m assuming we will hear from you that non-violence was the exclusive approach toward “getting what the Zionists wanted”, yeah?

That’s what I thought. Hypocrite.

DP. I don’t think anyone would really defend the conduct of the Irgun and other Jewish militias in Mandatory Palestine today, but let’s not pretend that it was only “Zionists” engaging in violence and terrorism then. There was basically a civil war within the territory for years under the British.

Sadly, you’re mistaken. There are PLENTY of people that defend it, excuse it, obfuscate the facts to dismiss criticism of what they did, and worse - I’ve personally observed posters in these threads justifying it.

To be honest, my use of the word “conduct” in lieu of what more appropriately describes what they did (committed heinous acts of terrorism) is a representative example of how badly Zionists has distorted the history.

We don’t talk about Nazi “conduct”. Why TF am I identifying what those groups did (and yes, they did far worse than their Arab contemporaries did) as mere misconduct? Because of the revisionist history that the West has been selling about Israel’s establishment for decades.

Stop comparing Israel to Nazi Germany. Holocaust inversion is antisemitic and beyond that it’s just lazy.

Contrary to what you apparently believe, you are not the authority to dictate what is and what isn’t a suitable comparison.

I know you think you can control what can and what cannot be said by smearing others as anti-semitic, but that ship has sailed, kemosabe.

I mean, I do think Jews get to define what antisemitism is actually. Do you think white people should define anti-black racism? Should men get to define misogyny? People who consider themselves progressive generally hold that those who do not experience racism need to listen, to learn, to accept and not challenge, when others speak about their experiences. Except where Jews are involved. Non-Jews are still very happy to tell Jews whether or not things said about them are antisemitic.

Holocaust inversion is antisemitic, full stop. There is a reason you’re invoking the Nazis and not, say, Stalin or Pol Pot or George W. Bush. And it’s not because the Holocaust is most analogous to the situation in Gaza (it is so, so, so not - as Deborah Lipstadt has said, comparisons to the Nazis “elevate by a factor of a zillion any wrongdoings Israel might have done, and lessen by a factor of a zillion what the Germans did”). It’s because you know invoking Nazis will inflict the greatest amount of psychic harm on Jews. That’s WHY you do it. That’s why use Jews’ own tragic history as a weapon to beat them with.

It’s presumptuous to try to tell someone what they mean and believe. Perhaps allow the person to explain the meaning behind what they are saying before jumping to malicious conclusions.

It’s presumptuous to tell a Jew they can’t recognize antisemitism when it’s plainly staring them in the face. Regardless of this person’s individual intent, I am telling you comparisons to the Nazis are antisemitic.

If you compared Black Lives Matter activists to southern white lynch mobs, I’m pretty sure people would accurately call you out as racist, even if there are very, very broadly speaking similarities between the two (they have both been involved in violence).

Your comparison is repulsive.

BLM protests : lynch mobs against the backdrop of slavery in this country = Israeli atrocities : Nazi atrocities?

Are you f^cking serious?

YOUR comparison is repulsive, my friend. Hamas started a war; Israel is fighting that war to try to defeat them. Have they committed human rights violations? Probably. Every modern military has and does, including the US military. That doesn’t make them equivalent to NAZI GERMANY. Their intention is not to annihilate the Palestinians. If it is, they’re doing a spectacularly bad job of it despite their obvious military superiority. In fact, in EIGHTY YEARS of war, 135,000 Palestinians, roughly nine tenths of one percent of Palestinians have been killed.

You are comparing that conflict to the Holocaust, an intentional genocide which wiped out six million Jews, roughly one third of the global Jewish population. It’s a gross comparison. It’s not accurate, it doesn’t advance the discourse in any way, and it’s intended to minimize Jews’ own tragedy and use it against them. Stop it already.

Are you denying that there is no genocide in Gaza?

No I don’t believe a genocide is occurring in Gaza. The difference between genocide and war is intent, and the requisite intent just isn’t there. I don’t deny that it’s a dire humanitarian crisis, and I (along with most Jews and Israelis) would like to see it end as soon as possible.

Maybe you should go listen to some of the Israeli politicians like Ben Gvir, Smotrich and even Netanyahu before you assume there is no intent. There's a reason why the ICC/ICJ have arrest warrants out for these criminals.

And no, most Israelis support ethnic cleansing/genocide.

I have seen the statements of Ben Gvir and Smotrich and agree that they are disgusting bigots (we have those in the US government too), but nothing they have said establishes intent to commit genocide. Nor does the actual military strategy of the IDF. Indifference to human suffering, perhaps. That’s a feature of every war, though.

Most Israelis DO NOT support ethnic cleansing/genocide, even if you’re defining that as support for the current war in Gaza. Not even most members of Likud (Netanyahu’s party) support it. A poll that came out a few days ago showed that roughly 70% of Israelis support ending the war in Gaza and signing an agreement for the release of hostages. Feel free to continue wildly speculating re: what Jews and Israelis think though. Don’t let facts get in your way.

By contrast, FYI, an overwhelming majority of people in both Gaza and the West Bank support the October 7th attack. There has been extensive polling on this.

Why does that shock you, after the decades of horrific abuse from Israel they’ve endured as homeless refugees in their own land?

Are you really going to pretend that the Israelis wouldn’t poll at near 100% support for outrageous terrorist attacks if they had to endure even 6 months of what Palestinians have dealt with for the past 75 years? Get real.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Over the decades, Palestinians have repeatedly pursued peaceful and nonviolent paths toward a just resolution with Israel — including diplomacy through the PLO’s recognition of Israel in 1988, participation in peace talks like Oslo and Camp David, grassroots nonviolent protests in places like Bil’in and Sheikh Jarrah, civil society initiatives for coexistence, and appeals to international law and the UN. Despite these efforts, continued occupation, settlement expansion, and lack of political progress have undermined peaceful strategies and fueled cycles of frustration.

Yeah see the thing about nonviolence is it kind of has to be your EXCLUSIVE approach. If “civil society initiatives” and “nonviolent protests” (both of which I wholeheartedly support) happen ALONGSIDE constant terrorism, they’re not going to have an effect. For reference, Oslo was in 1993 and Camp David was in 2000. In 1994 there were 26 terrorist attacks in Israel and in 2001 there were 118: https://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/terrisraelsum.html.

Thank you for dictating “the rules” …

Now, then. Please apply them to the attitudes and actual conduct of Zionists pre-1948 and report back to us.

I’m assuming we will hear from you that non-violence was the exclusive approach toward “getting what the Zionists wanted”, yeah?

That’s what I thought. Hypocrite.

DP. I don’t think anyone would really defend the conduct of the Irgun and other Jewish militias in Mandatory Palestine today, but let’s not pretend that it was only “Zionists” engaging in violence and terrorism then. There was basically a civil war within the territory for years under the British.

Sadly, you’re mistaken. There are PLENTY of people that defend it, excuse it, obfuscate the facts to dismiss criticism of what they did, and worse - I’ve personally observed posters in these threads justifying it.

To be honest, my use of the word “conduct” in lieu of what more appropriately describes what they did (committed heinous acts of terrorism) is a representative example of how badly Zionists has distorted the history.

We don’t talk about Nazi “conduct”. Why TF am I identifying what those groups did (and yes, they did far worse than their Arab contemporaries did) as mere misconduct? Because of the revisionist history that the West has been selling about Israel’s establishment for decades.

Stop comparing Israel to Nazi Germany. Holocaust inversion is antisemitic and beyond that it’s just lazy.

Contrary to what you apparently believe, you are not the authority to dictate what is and what isn’t a suitable comparison.

I know you think you can control what can and what cannot be said by smearing others as anti-semitic, but that ship has sailed, kemosabe.

I mean, I do think Jews get to define what antisemitism is actually. Do you think white people should define anti-black racism? Should men get to define misogyny? People who consider themselves progressive generally hold that those who do not experience racism need to listen, to learn, to accept and not challenge, when others speak about their experiences. Except where Jews are involved. Non-Jews are still very happy to tell Jews whether or not things said about them are antisemitic.

Holocaust inversion is antisemitic, full stop. There is a reason you’re invoking the Nazis and not, say, Stalin or Pol Pot or George W. Bush. And it’s not because the Holocaust is most analogous to the situation in Gaza (it is so, so, so not - as Deborah Lipstadt has said, comparisons to the Nazis “elevate by a factor of a zillion any wrongdoings Israel might have done, and lessen by a factor of a zillion what the Germans did”). It’s because you know invoking Nazis will inflict the greatest amount of psychic harm on Jews. That’s WHY you do it. That’s why use Jews’ own tragic history as a weapon to beat them with.

It’s presumptuous to try to tell someone what they mean and believe. Perhaps allow the person to explain the meaning behind what they are saying before jumping to malicious conclusions.

It’s presumptuous to tell a Jew they can’t recognize antisemitism when it’s plainly staring them in the face. Regardless of this person’s individual intent, I am telling you comparisons to the Nazis are antisemitic.

If you compared Black Lives Matter activists to southern white lynch mobs, I’m pretty sure people would accurately call you out as racist, even if there are very, very broadly speaking similarities between the two (they have both been involved in violence).

Your comparison is repulsive.

BLM protests : lynch mobs against the backdrop of slavery in this country = Israeli atrocities : Nazi atrocities?

Are you f^cking serious?

YOUR comparison is repulsive, my friend. Hamas started a war; Israel is fighting that war to try to defeat them. Have they committed human rights violations? Probably. Every modern military has and does, including the US military. That doesn’t make them equivalent to NAZI GERMANY. Their intention is not to annihilate the Palestinians. If it is, they’re doing a spectacularly bad job of it despite their obvious military superiority. In fact, in EIGHTY YEARS of war, 135,000 Palestinians, roughly nine tenths of one percent of Palestinians have been killed.

You are comparing that conflict to the Holocaust, an intentional genocide which wiped out six million Jews, roughly one third of the global Jewish population. It’s a gross comparison. It’s not accurate, it doesn’t advance the discourse in any way, and it’s intended to minimize Jews’ own tragedy and use it against them. Stop it already.

Are you denying that there is no genocide in Gaza?

No I don’t believe a genocide is occurring in Gaza. The difference between genocide and war is intent, and the requisite intent just isn’t there. I don’t deny that it’s a dire humanitarian crisis, and I (along with most Jews and Israelis) would like to see it end as soon as possible.

Maybe you should go listen to some of the Israeli politicians like Ben Gvir, Smotrich and even Netanyahu before you assume there is no intent. There's a reason why the ICC/ICJ have arrest warrants out for these criminals.

And no, most Israelis support ethnic cleansing/genocide.

I have seen the statements of Ben Gvir and Smotrich and agree that they are disgusting bigots (we have those in the US government too), but nothing they have said establishes intent to commit genocide. Nor does the actual military strategy of the IDF. Indifference to human suffering, perhaps. That’s a feature of every war, though.

Most Israelis DO NOT support ethnic cleansing/genocide, even if you’re defining that as support for the current war in Gaza. Not even most members of Likud (Netanyahu’s party) support it. A poll that came out a few days ago showed that roughly 70% of Israelis support ending the war in Gaza and signing an agreement for the release of hostages. Feel free to continue wildly speculating re: what Jews and Israelis think though. Don’t let facts get in your way.

Please. Just because they haven’t yelled “death to Palestinians and Palestine” from the roof tops doesn’t matter at all. Look at what they actually doing, cutting off water, bombing schools and hospitals, promoting settlements, cutting off aid, effectively fencing a whole population in and restricting their freedom of movement, burning their crops, I could go on but do I really need to?

+1

These shameful genocide deniers truly argue that unless that pallid POS Netanyahu issues a press release stating his intent to commit genocide, then no genocide is occurring.

Shameful people. Shameful intent hiding in plain sight. Just disgusting. Ugh.

Once more, beyond thankful to have the very good fortune to be able to fully excise these kinds of people from my daily orbit. But also feeling a little bit guilty knowing many cannot …

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Over the decades, Palestinians have repeatedly pursued peaceful and nonviolent paths toward a just resolution with Israel — including diplomacy through the PLO’s recognition of Israel in 1988, participation in peace talks like Oslo and Camp David, grassroots nonviolent protests in places like Bil’in and Sheikh Jarrah, civil society initiatives for coexistence, and appeals to international law and the UN. Despite these efforts, continued occupation, settlement expansion, and lack of political progress have undermined peaceful strategies and fueled cycles of frustration.

Yeah see the thing about nonviolence is it kind of has to be your EXCLUSIVE approach. If “civil society initiatives” and “nonviolent protests” (both of which I wholeheartedly support) happen ALONGSIDE constant terrorism, they’re not going to have an effect. For reference, Oslo was in 1993 and Camp David was in 2000. In 1994 there were 26 terrorist attacks in Israel and in 2001 there were 118: https://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/terrisraelsum.html.

Thank you for dictating “the rules” …

Now, then. Please apply them to the attitudes and actual conduct of Zionists pre-1948 and report back to us.

I’m assuming we will hear from you that non-violence was the exclusive approach toward “getting what the Zionists wanted”, yeah?

That’s what I thought. Hypocrite.

DP. I don’t think anyone would really defend the conduct of the Irgun and other Jewish militias in Mandatory Palestine today, but let’s not pretend that it was only “Zionists” engaging in violence and terrorism then. There was basically a civil war within the territory for years under the British.

Sadly, you’re mistaken. There are PLENTY of people that defend it, excuse it, obfuscate the facts to dismiss criticism of what they did, and worse - I’ve personally observed posters in these threads justifying it.

To be honest, my use of the word “conduct” in lieu of what more appropriately describes what they did (committed heinous acts of terrorism) is a representative example of how badly Zionists has distorted the history.

We don’t talk about Nazi “conduct”. Why TF am I identifying what those groups did (and yes, they did far worse than their Arab contemporaries did) as mere misconduct? Because of the revisionist history that the West has been selling about Israel’s establishment for decades.

Stop comparing Israel to Nazi Germany. Holocaust inversion is antisemitic and beyond that it’s just lazy.

Contrary to what you apparently believe, you are not the authority to dictate what is and what isn’t a suitable comparison.

I know you think you can control what can and what cannot be said by smearing others as anti-semitic, but that ship has sailed, kemosabe.

I mean, I do think Jews get to define what antisemitism is actually. Do you think white people should define anti-black racism? Should men get to define misogyny? People who consider themselves progressive generally hold that those who do not experience racism need to listen, to learn, to accept and not challenge, when others speak about their experiences. Except where Jews are involved. Non-Jews are still very happy to tell Jews whether or not things said about them are antisemitic.

Holocaust inversion is antisemitic, full stop. There is a reason you’re invoking the Nazis and not, say, Stalin or Pol Pot or George W. Bush. And it’s not because the Holocaust is most analogous to the situation in Gaza (it is so, so, so not - as Deborah Lipstadt has said, comparisons to the Nazis “elevate by a factor of a zillion any wrongdoings Israel might have done, and lessen by a factor of a zillion what the Germans did”). It’s because you know invoking Nazis will inflict the greatest amount of psychic harm on Jews. That’s WHY you do it. That’s why use Jews’ own tragic history as a weapon to beat them with.

It’s presumptuous to try to tell someone what they mean and believe. Perhaps allow the person to explain the meaning behind what they are saying before jumping to malicious conclusions.

It’s presumptuous to tell a Jew they can’t recognize antisemitism when it’s plainly staring them in the face. Regardless of this person’s individual intent, I am telling you comparisons to the Nazis are antisemitic.

If you compared Black Lives Matter activists to southern white lynch mobs, I’m pretty sure people would accurately call you out as racist, even if there are very, very broadly speaking similarities between the two (they have both been involved in violence).

Your comparison is repulsive.

BLM protests : lynch mobs against the backdrop of slavery in this country = Israeli atrocities : Nazi atrocities?

Are you f^cking serious?

YOUR comparison is repulsive, my friend. Hamas started a war; Israel is fighting that war to try to defeat them. Have they committed human rights violations? Probably. Every modern military has and does, including the US military. That doesn’t make them equivalent to NAZI GERMANY. Their intention is not to annihilate the Palestinians. If it is, they’re doing a spectacularly bad job of it despite their obvious military superiority. In fact, in EIGHTY YEARS of war, 135,000 Palestinians, roughly nine tenths of one percent of Palestinians have been killed.

You are comparing that conflict to the Holocaust, an intentional genocide which wiped out six million Jews, roughly one third of the global Jewish population. It’s a gross comparison. It’s not accurate, it doesn’t advance the discourse in any way, and it’s intended to minimize Jews’ own tragedy and use it against them. Stop it already.

Are you denying that there is no genocide in Gaza?

No I don’t believe a genocide is occurring in Gaza. The difference between genocide and war is intent, and the requisite intent just isn’t there. I don’t deny that it’s a dire humanitarian crisis, and I (along with most Jews and Israelis) would like to see it end as soon as possible.

Maybe you should go listen to some of the Israeli politicians like Ben Gvir, Smotrich and even Netanyahu before you assume there is no intent. There's a reason why the ICC/ICJ have arrest warrants out for these criminals.

And no, most Israelis support ethnic cleansing/genocide.

I have seen the statements of Ben Gvir and Smotrich and agree that they are disgusting bigots (we have those in the US government too), but nothing they have said establishes intent to commit genocide. Nor does the actual military strategy of the IDF. Indifference to human suffering, perhaps. That’s a feature of every war, though.

Most Israelis DO NOT support ethnic cleansing/genocide, even if you’re defining that as support for the current war in Gaza. Not even most members of Likud (Netanyahu’s party) support it. A poll that came out a few days ago showed that roughly 70% of Israelis support ending the war in Gaza and signing an agreement for the release of hostages. Feel free to continue wildly speculating re: what Jews and Israelis think though. Don’t let facts get in your way.

By contrast, FYI, an overwhelming majority of people in both Gaza and the West Bank support the October 7th attack. There has been extensive polling on this.

Why does that shock you, after the decades of horrific abuse from Israel they’ve endured as homeless refugees in their own land?

Are you really going to pretend that the Israelis wouldn’t poll at near 100% support for outrageous terrorist attacks if they had to endure even 6 months of what Palestinians have dealt with for the past 75 years? Get real.

This is too easy. I don’t even have to push to get you people to say the quiet part out loud. Stop justifying terrorism. You should be on a list. JFC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Over the decades, Palestinians have repeatedly pursued peaceful and nonviolent paths toward a just resolution with Israel — including diplomacy through the PLO’s recognition of Israel in 1988, participation in peace talks like Oslo and Camp David, grassroots nonviolent protests in places like Bil’in and Sheikh Jarrah, civil society initiatives for coexistence, and appeals to international law and the UN. Despite these efforts, continued occupation, settlement expansion, and lack of political progress have undermined peaceful strategies and fueled cycles of frustration.

Yeah see the thing about nonviolence is it kind of has to be your EXCLUSIVE approach. If “civil society initiatives” and “nonviolent protests” (both of which I wholeheartedly support) happen ALONGSIDE constant terrorism, they’re not going to have an effect. For reference, Oslo was in 1993 and Camp David was in 2000. In 1994 there were 26 terrorist attacks in Israel and in 2001 there were 118: https://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/terrisraelsum.html.

Thank you for dictating “the rules” …

Now, then. Please apply them to the attitudes and actual conduct of Zionists pre-1948 and report back to us.

I’m assuming we will hear from you that non-violence was the exclusive approach toward “getting what the Zionists wanted”, yeah?

That’s what I thought. Hypocrite.

DP. I don’t think anyone would really defend the conduct of the Irgun and other Jewish militias in Mandatory Palestine today, but let’s not pretend that it was only “Zionists” engaging in violence and terrorism then. There was basically a civil war within the territory for years under the British.

Sadly, you’re mistaken. There are PLENTY of people that defend it, excuse it, obfuscate the facts to dismiss criticism of what they did, and worse - I’ve personally observed posters in these threads justifying it.

To be honest, my use of the word “conduct” in lieu of what more appropriately describes what they did (committed heinous acts of terrorism) is a representative example of how badly Zionists has distorted the history.

We don’t talk about Nazi “conduct”. Why TF am I identifying what those groups did (and yes, they did far worse than their Arab contemporaries did) as mere misconduct? Because of the revisionist history that the West has been selling about Israel’s establishment for decades.

Stop comparing Israel to Nazi Germany. Holocaust inversion is antisemitic and beyond that it’s just lazy.

Contrary to what you apparently believe, you are not the authority to dictate what is and what isn’t a suitable comparison.

I know you think you can control what can and what cannot be said by smearing others as anti-semitic, but that ship has sailed, kemosabe.

I mean, I do think Jews get to define what antisemitism is actually. Do you think white people should define anti-black racism? Should men get to define misogyny? People who consider themselves progressive generally hold that those who do not experience racism need to listen, to learn, to accept and not challenge, when others speak about their experiences. Except where Jews are involved. Non-Jews are still very happy to tell Jews whether or not things said about them are antisemitic.

Holocaust inversion is antisemitic, full stop. There is a reason you’re invoking the Nazis and not, say, Stalin or Pol Pot or George W. Bush. And it’s not because the Holocaust is most analogous to the situation in Gaza (it is so, so, so not - as Deborah Lipstadt has said, comparisons to the Nazis “elevate by a factor of a zillion any wrongdoings Israel might have done, and lessen by a factor of a zillion what the Germans did”). It’s because you know invoking Nazis will inflict the greatest amount of psychic harm on Jews. That’s WHY you do it. That’s why use Jews’ own tragic history as a weapon to beat them with.

It’s presumptuous to try to tell someone what they mean and believe. Perhaps allow the person to explain the meaning behind what they are saying before jumping to malicious conclusions.

It’s presumptuous to tell a Jew they can’t recognize antisemitism when it’s plainly staring them in the face. Regardless of this person’s individual intent, I am telling you comparisons to the Nazis are antisemitic.

If you compared Black Lives Matter activists to southern white lynch mobs, I’m pretty sure people would accurately call you out as racist, even if there are very, very broadly speaking similarities between the two (they have both been involved in violence).

Your comparison is repulsive.

BLM protests : lynch mobs against the backdrop of slavery in this country = Israeli atrocities : Nazi atrocities?

Are you f^cking serious?

YOUR comparison is repulsive, my friend. Hamas started a war; Israel is fighting that war to try to defeat them. Have they committed human rights violations? Probably. Every modern military has and does, including the US military. That doesn’t make them equivalent to NAZI GERMANY. Their intention is not to annihilate the Palestinians. If it is, they’re doing a spectacularly bad job of it despite their obvious military superiority. In fact, in EIGHTY YEARS of war, 135,000 Palestinians, roughly nine tenths of one percent of Palestinians have been killed.

You are comparing that conflict to the Holocaust, an intentional genocide which wiped out six million Jews, roughly one third of the global Jewish population. It’s a gross comparison. It’s not accurate, it doesn’t advance the discourse in any way, and it’s intended to minimize Jews’ own tragedy and use it against them. Stop it already.

Are you denying that there is no genocide in Gaza?

No I don’t believe a genocide is occurring in Gaza. The difference between genocide and war is intent, and the requisite intent just isn’t there. I don’t deny that it’s a dire humanitarian crisis, and I (along with most Jews and Israelis) would like to see it end as soon as possible.

Maybe you should go listen to some of the Israeli politicians like Ben Gvir, Smotrich and even Netanyahu before you assume there is no intent. There's a reason why the ICC/ICJ have arrest warrants out for these criminals.

And no, most Israelis support ethnic cleansing/genocide.

I have seen the statements of Ben Gvir and Smotrich and agree that they are disgusting bigots (we have those in the US government too), but nothing they have said establishes intent to commit genocide. Nor does the actual military strategy of the IDF. Indifference to human suffering, perhaps. That’s a feature of every war, though.

Most Israelis DO NOT support ethnic cleansing/genocide, even if you’re defining that as support for the current war in Gaza. Not even most members of Likud (Netanyahu’s party) support it. A poll that came out a few days ago showed that roughly 70% of Israelis support ending the war in Gaza and signing an agreement for the release of hostages. Feel free to continue wildly speculating re: what Jews and Israelis think though. Don’t let facts get in your way.

By contrast, FYI, an overwhelming majority of people in both Gaza and the West Bank support the October 7th attack. There has been extensive polling on this.

Why does that shock you, after the decades of horrific abuse from Israel they’ve endured as homeless refugees in their own land?

Are you really going to pretend that the Israelis wouldn’t poll at near 100% support for outrageous terrorist attacks if they had to endure even 6 months of what Palestinians have dealt with for the past 75 years? Get real.

This is too easy. I don’t even have to push to get you people to say the quiet part out loud. Stop justifying terrorism. You should be on a list. JFC.

Lol … nice try, vile Zionist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Over the decades, Palestinians have repeatedly pursued peaceful and nonviolent paths toward a just resolution with Israel — including diplomacy through the PLO’s recognition of Israel in 1988, participation in peace talks like Oslo and Camp David, grassroots nonviolent protests in places like Bil’in and Sheikh Jarrah, civil society initiatives for coexistence, and appeals to international law and the UN. Despite these efforts, continued occupation, settlement expansion, and lack of political progress have undermined peaceful strategies and fueled cycles of frustration.

Yeah see the thing about nonviolence is it kind of has to be your EXCLUSIVE approach. If “civil society initiatives” and “nonviolent protests” (both of which I wholeheartedly support) happen ALONGSIDE constant terrorism, they’re not going to have an effect. For reference, Oslo was in 1993 and Camp David was in 2000. In 1994 there were 26 terrorist attacks in Israel and in 2001 there were 118: https://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/terrisraelsum.html.

Thank you for dictating “the rules” …

Now, then. Please apply them to the attitudes and actual conduct of Zionists pre-1948 and report back to us.

I’m assuming we will hear from you that non-violence was the exclusive approach toward “getting what the Zionists wanted”, yeah?

That’s what I thought. Hypocrite.

DP. I don’t think anyone would really defend the conduct of the Irgun and other Jewish militias in Mandatory Palestine today, but let’s not pretend that it was only “Zionists” engaging in violence and terrorism then. There was basically a civil war within the territory for years under the British.

Sadly, you’re mistaken. There are PLENTY of people that defend it, excuse it, obfuscate the facts to dismiss criticism of what they did, and worse - I’ve personally observed posters in these threads justifying it.

To be honest, my use of the word “conduct” in lieu of what more appropriately describes what they did (committed heinous acts of terrorism) is a representative example of how badly Zionists has distorted the history.

We don’t talk about Nazi “conduct”. Why TF am I identifying what those groups did (and yes, they did far worse than their Arab contemporaries did) as mere misconduct? Because of the revisionist history that the West has been selling about Israel’s establishment for decades.

Stop comparing Israel to Nazi Germany. Holocaust inversion is antisemitic and beyond that it’s just lazy.

Contrary to what you apparently believe, you are not the authority to dictate what is and what isn’t a suitable comparison.

I know you think you can control what can and what cannot be said by smearing others as anti-semitic, but that ship has sailed, kemosabe.

I mean, I do think Jews get to define what antisemitism is actually. Do you think white people should define anti-black racism? Should men get to define misogyny? People who consider themselves progressive generally hold that those who do not experience racism need to listen, to learn, to accept and not challenge, when others speak about their experiences. Except where Jews are involved. Non-Jews are still very happy to tell Jews whether or not things said about them are antisemitic.

Holocaust inversion is antisemitic, full stop. There is a reason you’re invoking the Nazis and not, say, Stalin or Pol Pot or George W. Bush. And it’s not because the Holocaust is most analogous to the situation in Gaza (it is so, so, so not - as Deborah Lipstadt has said, comparisons to the Nazis “elevate by a factor of a zillion any wrongdoings Israel might have done, and lessen by a factor of a zillion what the Germans did”). It’s because you know invoking Nazis will inflict the greatest amount of psychic harm on Jews. That’s WHY you do it. That’s why use Jews’ own tragic history as a weapon to beat them with.

It’s presumptuous to try to tell someone what they mean and believe. Perhaps allow the person to explain the meaning behind what they are saying before jumping to malicious conclusions.

It’s presumptuous to tell a Jew they can’t recognize antisemitism when it’s plainly staring them in the face. Regardless of this person’s individual intent, I am telling you comparisons to the Nazis are antisemitic.

If you compared Black Lives Matter activists to southern white lynch mobs, I’m pretty sure people would accurately call you out as racist, even if there are very, very broadly speaking similarities between the two (they have both been involved in violence).

Your comparison is repulsive.

BLM protests : lynch mobs against the backdrop of slavery in this country = Israeli atrocities : Nazi atrocities?

Are you f^cking serious?

YOUR comparison is repulsive, my friend. Hamas started a war; Israel is fighting that war to try to defeat them. Have they committed human rights violations? Probably. Every modern military has and does, including the US military. That doesn’t make them equivalent to NAZI GERMANY. Their intention is not to annihilate the Palestinians. If it is, they’re doing a spectacularly bad job of it despite their obvious military superiority. In fact, in EIGHTY YEARS of war, 135,000 Palestinians, roughly nine tenths of one percent of Palestinians have been killed.

You are comparing that conflict to the Holocaust, an intentional genocide which wiped out six million Jews, roughly one third of the global Jewish population. It’s a gross comparison. It’s not accurate, it doesn’t advance the discourse in any way, and it’s intended to minimize Jews’ own tragedy and use it against them. Stop it already.

Are you denying that there is no genocide in Gaza?

No I don’t believe a genocide is occurring in Gaza. The difference between genocide and war is intent, and the requisite intent just isn’t there. I don’t deny that it’s a dire humanitarian crisis, and I (along with most Jews and Israelis) would like to see it end as soon as possible.

Maybe you should go listen to some of the Israeli politicians like Ben Gvir, Smotrich and even Netanyahu before you assume there is no intent. There's a reason why the ICC/ICJ have arrest warrants out for these criminals.

And no, most Israelis support ethnic cleansing/genocide.

I have seen the statements of Ben Gvir and Smotrich and agree that they are disgusting bigots (we have those in the US government too), but nothing they have said establishes intent to commit genocide. Nor does the actual military strategy of the IDF. Indifference to human suffering, perhaps. That’s a feature of every war, though.

Most Israelis DO NOT support ethnic cleansing/genocide, even if you’re defining that as support for the current war in Gaza. Not even most members of Likud (Netanyahu’s party) support it. A poll that came out a few days ago showed that roughly 70% of Israelis support ending the war in Gaza and signing an agreement for the release of hostages. Feel free to continue wildly speculating re: what Jews and Israelis think though. Don’t let facts get in your way.

By contrast, FYI, an overwhelming majority of people in both Gaza and the West Bank support the October 7th attack. There has been extensive polling on this.

Why does that shock you, after the decades of horrific abuse from Israel they’ve endured as homeless refugees in their own land?

Are you really going to pretend that the Israelis wouldn’t poll at near 100% support for outrageous terrorist attacks if they had to endure even 6 months of what Palestinians have dealt with for the past 75 years? Get real.

This is too easy. I don’t even have to push to get you people to say the quiet part out loud. Stop justifying terrorism. You should be on a list. JFC.

Lol … nice try, vile Zionist.

Again, name calling is not an argument. It’s a sign that you don’t have an argument.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Over the decades, Palestinians have repeatedly pursued peaceful and nonviolent paths toward a just resolution with Israel — including diplomacy through the PLO’s recognition of Israel in 1988, participation in peace talks like Oslo and Camp David, grassroots nonviolent protests in places like Bil’in and Sheikh Jarrah, civil society initiatives for coexistence, and appeals to international law and the UN. Despite these efforts, continued occupation, settlement expansion, and lack of political progress have undermined peaceful strategies and fueled cycles of frustration.

Yeah see the thing about nonviolence is it kind of has to be your EXCLUSIVE approach. If “civil society initiatives” and “nonviolent protests” (both of which I wholeheartedly support) happen ALONGSIDE constant terrorism, they’re not going to have an effect. For reference, Oslo was in 1993 and Camp David was in 2000. In 1994 there were 26 terrorist attacks in Israel and in 2001 there were 118: https://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/terrisraelsum.html.

Thank you for dictating “the rules” …

Now, then. Please apply them to the attitudes and actual conduct of Zionists pre-1948 and report back to us.

I’m assuming we will hear from you that non-violence was the exclusive approach toward “getting what the Zionists wanted”, yeah?

That’s what I thought. Hypocrite.

DP. I don’t think anyone would really defend the conduct of the Irgun and other Jewish militias in Mandatory Palestine today, but let’s not pretend that it was only “Zionists” engaging in violence and terrorism then. There was basically a civil war within the territory for years under the British.

Sadly, you’re mistaken. There are PLENTY of people that defend it, excuse it, obfuscate the facts to dismiss criticism of what they did, and worse - I’ve personally observed posters in these threads justifying it.

To be honest, my use of the word “conduct” in lieu of what more appropriately describes what they did (committed heinous acts of terrorism) is a representative example of how badly Zionists has distorted the history.

We don’t talk about Nazi “conduct”. Why TF am I identifying what those groups did (and yes, they did far worse than their Arab contemporaries did) as mere misconduct? Because of the revisionist history that the West has been selling about Israel’s establishment for decades.

Stop comparing Israel to Nazi Germany. Holocaust inversion is antisemitic and beyond that it’s just lazy.

Contrary to what you apparently believe, you are not the authority to dictate what is and what isn’t a suitable comparison.

I know you think you can control what can and what cannot be said by smearing others as anti-semitic, but that ship has sailed, kemosabe.

I mean, I do think Jews get to define what antisemitism is actually. Do you think white people should define anti-black racism? Should men get to define misogyny? People who consider themselves progressive generally hold that those who do not experience racism need to listen, to learn, to accept and not challenge, when others speak about their experiences. Except where Jews are involved. Non-Jews are still very happy to tell Jews whether or not things said about them are antisemitic.

Holocaust inversion is antisemitic, full stop. There is a reason you’re invoking the Nazis and not, say, Stalin or Pol Pot or George W. Bush. And it’s not because the Holocaust is most analogous to the situation in Gaza (it is so, so, so not - as Deborah Lipstadt has said, comparisons to the Nazis “elevate by a factor of a zillion any wrongdoings Israel might have done, and lessen by a factor of a zillion what the Germans did”). It’s because you know invoking Nazis will inflict the greatest amount of psychic harm on Jews. That’s WHY you do it. That’s why use Jews’ own tragic history as a weapon to beat them with.

It’s presumptuous to try to tell someone what they mean and believe. Perhaps allow the person to explain the meaning behind what they are saying before jumping to malicious conclusions.

It’s presumptuous to tell a Jew they can’t recognize antisemitism when it’s plainly staring them in the face. Regardless of this person’s individual intent, I am telling you comparisons to the Nazis are antisemitic.

If you compared Black Lives Matter activists to southern white lynch mobs, I’m pretty sure people would accurately call you out as racist, even if there are very, very broadly speaking similarities between the two (they have both been involved in violence).

Your comparison is repulsive.

BLM protests : lynch mobs against the backdrop of slavery in this country = Israeli atrocities : Nazi atrocities?

Are you f^cking serious?

YOUR comparison is repulsive, my friend. Hamas started a war; Israel is fighting that war to try to defeat them. Have they committed human rights violations? Probably. Every modern military has and does, including the US military. That doesn’t make them equivalent to NAZI GERMANY. Their intention is not to annihilate the Palestinians. If it is, they’re doing a spectacularly bad job of it despite their obvious military superiority. In fact, in EIGHTY YEARS of war, 135,000 Palestinians, roughly nine tenths of one percent of Palestinians have been killed.

You are comparing that conflict to the Holocaust, an intentional genocide which wiped out six million Jews, roughly one third of the global Jewish population. It’s a gross comparison. It’s not accurate, it doesn’t advance the discourse in any way, and it’s intended to minimize Jews’ own tragedy and use it against them. Stop it already.

Are you denying that there is no genocide in Gaza?

No I don’t believe a genocide is occurring in Gaza. The difference between genocide and war is intent, and the requisite intent just isn’t there. I don’t deny that it’s a dire humanitarian crisis, and I (along with most Jews and Israelis) would like to see it end as soon as possible.

Maybe you should go listen to some of the Israeli politicians like Ben Gvir, Smotrich and even Netanyahu before you assume there is no intent. There's a reason why the ICC/ICJ have arrest warrants out for these criminals.

And no, most Israelis support ethnic cleansing/genocide.

I have seen the statements of Ben Gvir and Smotrich and agree that they are disgusting bigots (we have those in the US government too), but nothing they have said establishes intent to commit genocide. Nor does the actual military strategy of the IDF. Indifference to human suffering, perhaps. That’s a feature of every war, though.

Most Israelis DO NOT support ethnic cleansing/genocide, even if you’re defining that as support for the current war in Gaza. Not even most members of Likud (Netanyahu’s party) support it. A poll that came out a few days ago showed that roughly 70% of Israelis support ending the war in Gaza and signing an agreement for the release of hostages. Feel free to continue wildly speculating re: what Jews and Israelis think though. Don’t let facts get in your way.

I get so tired readng the litigation of whether or not what is happening in Gaza is a genocide or not. I really don’t think k the label of the event is the important point. What matters is: it is wrong. It is cruel. It is inhumane.

As someone with Jewish heritage it pains me to think that Israel - a country founded in the premise of “never again” is perpetuating these horrors. As an American I hate that my taxpayer money is going to fund the weapons Israel is using. There are enough first hand accounts and reporting - even without western media being allowed access into Gaza - that it’s clear what is happening is horrible. Did you read or hear from the Us doctors who worked in Gaza who catalogued the head shots of children (some as young as 1 years old). That data alone establishes the death Israel is inflicting is more than just “collateral damage of war”. As for the cries that Hamas uses human shields - what about the NyT reporting of the civilians that IDF routinely uses to go first into building to assess danger (and be shot at if that danger is present).

If you believe that what Israel is doing is right and just (and that criticism of these actions is antisemitism) I challenge you to meet a Palestinian in person. I know several and they are not all the uneducated war-hungry hatred filled people that you think they are.

If you want Palestinians and Muslims to see the humanity in you, maybe try by seeing the humanity in them!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Over the decades, Palestinians have repeatedly pursued peaceful and nonviolent paths toward a just resolution with Israel — including diplomacy through the PLO’s recognition of Israel in 1988, participation in peace talks like Oslo and Camp David, grassroots nonviolent protests in places like Bil’in and Sheikh Jarrah, civil society initiatives for coexistence, and appeals to international law and the UN. Despite these efforts, continued occupation, settlement expansion, and lack of political progress have undermined peaceful strategies and fueled cycles of frustration.

Yeah see the thing about nonviolence is it kind of has to be your EXCLUSIVE approach. If “civil society initiatives” and “nonviolent protests” (both of which I wholeheartedly support) happen ALONGSIDE constant terrorism, they’re not going to have an effect. For reference, Oslo was in 1993 and Camp David was in 2000. In 1994 there were 26 terrorist attacks in Israel and in 2001 there were 118: https://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/terrisraelsum.html.

Thank you for dictating “the rules” …

Now, then. Please apply them to the attitudes and actual conduct of Zionists pre-1948 and report back to us.

I’m assuming we will hear from you that non-violence was the exclusive approach toward “getting what the Zionists wanted”, yeah?

That’s what I thought. Hypocrite.

DP. I don’t think anyone would really defend the conduct of the Irgun and other Jewish militias in Mandatory Palestine today, but let’s not pretend that it was only “Zionists” engaging in violence and terrorism then. There was basically a civil war within the territory for years under the British.

Sadly, you’re mistaken. There are PLENTY of people that defend it, excuse it, obfuscate the facts to dismiss criticism of what they did, and worse - I’ve personally observed posters in these threads justifying it.

To be honest, my use of the word “conduct” in lieu of what more appropriately describes what they did (committed heinous acts of terrorism) is a representative example of how badly Zionists has distorted the history.

We don’t talk about Nazi “conduct”. Why TF am I identifying what those groups did (and yes, they did far worse than their Arab contemporaries did) as mere misconduct? Because of the revisionist history that the West has been selling about Israel’s establishment for decades.

Stop comparing Israel to Nazi Germany. Holocaust inversion is antisemitic and beyond that it’s just lazy.

Contrary to what you apparently believe, you are not the authority to dictate what is and what isn’t a suitable comparison.

I know you think you can control what can and what cannot be said by smearing others as anti-semitic, but that ship has sailed, kemosabe.

I mean, I do think Jews get to define what antisemitism is actually. Do you think white people should define anti-black racism? Should men get to define misogyny? People who consider themselves progressive generally hold that those who do not experience racism need to listen, to learn, to accept and not challenge, when others speak about their experiences. Except where Jews are involved. Non-Jews are still very happy to tell Jews whether or not things said about them are antisemitic.

Holocaust inversion is antisemitic, full stop. There is a reason you’re invoking the Nazis and not, say, Stalin or Pol Pot or George W. Bush. And it’s not because the Holocaust is most analogous to the situation in Gaza (it is so, so, so not - as Deborah Lipstadt has said, comparisons to the Nazis “elevate by a factor of a zillion any wrongdoings Israel might have done, and lessen by a factor of a zillion what the Germans did”). It’s because you know invoking Nazis will inflict the greatest amount of psychic harm on Jews. That’s WHY you do it. That’s why use Jews’ own tragic history as a weapon to beat them with.

It’s presumptuous to try to tell someone what they mean and believe. Perhaps allow the person to explain the meaning behind what they are saying before jumping to malicious conclusions.

It’s presumptuous to tell a Jew they can’t recognize antisemitism when it’s plainly staring them in the face. Regardless of this person’s individual intent, I am telling you comparisons to the Nazis are antisemitic.

If you compared Black Lives Matter activists to southern white lynch mobs, I’m pretty sure people would accurately call you out as racist, even if there are very, very broadly speaking similarities between the two (they have both been involved in violence).

Your comparison is repulsive.

BLM protests : lynch mobs against the backdrop of slavery in this country = Israeli atrocities : Nazi atrocities?

Are you f^cking serious?

YOUR comparison is repulsive, my friend. Hamas started a war; Israel is fighting that war to try to defeat them. Have they committed human rights violations? Probably. Every modern military has and does, including the US military. That doesn’t make them equivalent to NAZI GERMANY. Their intention is not to annihilate the Palestinians. If it is, they’re doing a spectacularly bad job of it despite their obvious military superiority. In fact, in EIGHTY YEARS of war, 135,000 Palestinians, roughly nine tenths of one percent of Palestinians have been killed.

You are comparing that conflict to the Holocaust, an intentional genocide which wiped out six million Jews, roughly one third of the global Jewish population. It’s a gross comparison. It’s not accurate, it doesn’t advance the discourse in any way, and it’s intended to minimize Jews’ own tragedy and use it against them. Stop it already.

Are you denying that there is no genocide in Gaza?

No I don’t believe a genocide is occurring in Gaza. The difference between genocide and war is intent, and the requisite intent just isn’t there. I don’t deny that it’s a dire humanitarian crisis, and I (along with most Jews and Israelis) would like to see it end as soon as possible.

Maybe you should go listen to some of the Israeli politicians like Ben Gvir, Smotrich and even Netanyahu before you assume there is no intent. There's a reason why the ICC/ICJ have arrest warrants out for these criminals.

And no, most Israelis support ethnic cleansing/genocide.

I have seen the statements of Ben Gvir and Smotrich and agree that they are disgusting bigots (we have those in the US government too), but nothing they have said establishes intent to commit genocide. Nor does the actual military strategy of the IDF. Indifference to human suffering, perhaps. That’s a feature of every war, though.

Most Israelis DO NOT support ethnic cleansing/genocide, even if you’re defining that as support for the current war in Gaza. Not even most members of Likud (Netanyahu’s party) support it. A poll that came out a few days ago showed that roughly 70% of Israelis support ending the war in Gaza and signing an agreement for the release of hostages. Feel free to continue wildly speculating re: what Jews and Israelis think though. Don’t let facts get in your way.

By contrast, FYI, an overwhelming majority of people in both Gaza and the West Bank support the October 7th attack. There has been extensive polling on this.

Why does that shock you, after the decades of horrific abuse from Israel they’ve endured as homeless refugees in their own land?

Are you really going to pretend that the Israelis wouldn’t poll at near 100% support for outrageous terrorist attacks if they had to endure even 6 months of what Palestinians have dealt with for the past 75 years? Get real.

This is too easy. I don’t even have to push to get you people to say the quiet part out loud. Stop justifying terrorism. You should be on a list. JFC.

To all you decent, openminded, progressive people out there who support the cause of Palestinian human rights - this was the entire point of my OP.

Criticism of Israel isn’t always antisemitic. But you have to be very careful about what you’re believing and who you’re declaring common cause with. The above poster is claiming that support for October 7th is justified. It is undisputed that October 7th was a terrorist attack specifically targeting civilians. It was captured on video by the perpetrators. They beheaded people with axes (there is video of this). They murdered children in front of their parents (there is video of this too). They kidnapped and murdered babies. This kind of ideology is becoming terrifyingly common. See here for a description of young Americans saying “Bin Laden was right, actually”: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/16/tech/tiktok-osama-bin-laden-letter-to-america

It’s not going to end well for anyone - non-Jewish Americans included.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Over the decades, Palestinians have repeatedly pursued peaceful and nonviolent paths toward a just resolution with Israel — including diplomacy through the PLO’s recognition of Israel in 1988, participation in peace talks like Oslo and Camp David, grassroots nonviolent protests in places like Bil’in and Sheikh Jarrah, civil society initiatives for coexistence, and appeals to international law and the UN. Despite these efforts, continued occupation, settlement expansion, and lack of political progress have undermined peaceful strategies and fueled cycles of frustration.

Yeah see the thing about nonviolence is it kind of has to be your EXCLUSIVE approach. If “civil society initiatives” and “nonviolent protests” (both of which I wholeheartedly support) happen ALONGSIDE constant terrorism, they’re not going to have an effect. For reference, Oslo was in 1993 and Camp David was in 2000. In 1994 there were 26 terrorist attacks in Israel and in 2001 there were 118: https://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/terrisraelsum.html.

Thank you for dictating “the rules” …

Now, then. Please apply them to the attitudes and actual conduct of Zionists pre-1948 and report back to us.

I’m assuming we will hear from you that non-violence was the exclusive approach toward “getting what the Zionists wanted”, yeah?

That’s what I thought. Hypocrite.

DP. I don’t think anyone would really defend the conduct of the Irgun and other Jewish militias in Mandatory Palestine today, but let’s not pretend that it was only “Zionists” engaging in violence and terrorism then. There was basically a civil war within the territory for years under the British.

Sadly, you’re mistaken. There are PLENTY of people that defend it, excuse it, obfuscate the facts to dismiss criticism of what they did, and worse - I’ve personally observed posters in these threads justifying it.

To be honest, my use of the word “conduct” in lieu of what more appropriately describes what they did (committed heinous acts of terrorism) is a representative example of how badly Zionists has distorted the history.

We don’t talk about Nazi “conduct”. Why TF am I identifying what those groups did (and yes, they did far worse than their Arab contemporaries did) as mere misconduct? Because of the revisionist history that the West has been selling about Israel’s establishment for decades.

Stop comparing Israel to Nazi Germany. Holocaust inversion is antisemitic and beyond that it’s just lazy.

Contrary to what you apparently believe, you are not the authority to dictate what is and what isn’t a suitable comparison.

I know you think you can control what can and what cannot be said by smearing others as anti-semitic, but that ship has sailed, kemosabe.

I mean, I do think Jews get to define what antisemitism is actually. Do you think white people should define anti-black racism? Should men get to define misogyny? People who consider themselves progressive generally hold that those who do not experience racism need to listen, to learn, to accept and not challenge, when others speak about their experiences. Except where Jews are involved. Non-Jews are still very happy to tell Jews whether or not things said about them are antisemitic.

Holocaust inversion is antisemitic, full stop. There is a reason you’re invoking the Nazis and not, say, Stalin or Pol Pot or George W. Bush. And it’s not because the Holocaust is most analogous to the situation in Gaza (it is so, so, so not - as Deborah Lipstadt has said, comparisons to the Nazis “elevate by a factor of a zillion any wrongdoings Israel might have done, and lessen by a factor of a zillion what the Germans did”). It’s because you know invoking Nazis will inflict the greatest amount of psychic harm on Jews. That’s WHY you do it. That’s why use Jews’ own tragic history as a weapon to beat them with.

It’s presumptuous to try to tell someone what they mean and believe. Perhaps allow the person to explain the meaning behind what they are saying before jumping to malicious conclusions.

It’s presumptuous to tell a Jew they can’t recognize antisemitism when it’s plainly staring them in the face. Regardless of this person’s individual intent, I am telling you comparisons to the Nazis are antisemitic.

If you compared Black Lives Matter activists to southern white lynch mobs, I’m pretty sure people would accurately call you out as racist, even if there are very, very broadly speaking similarities between the two (they have both been involved in violence).

Your comparison is repulsive.

BLM protests : lynch mobs against the backdrop of slavery in this country = Israeli atrocities : Nazi atrocities?

Are you f^cking serious?

YOUR comparison is repulsive, my friend. Hamas started a war; Israel is fighting that war to try to defeat them. Have they committed human rights violations? Probably. Every modern military has and does, including the US military. That doesn’t make them equivalent to NAZI GERMANY. Their intention is not to annihilate the Palestinians. If it is, they’re doing a spectacularly bad job of it despite their obvious military superiority. In fact, in EIGHTY YEARS of war, 135,000 Palestinians, roughly nine tenths of one percent of Palestinians have been killed.

You are comparing that conflict to the Holocaust, an intentional genocide which wiped out six million Jews, roughly one third of the global Jewish population. It’s a gross comparison. It’s not accurate, it doesn’t advance the discourse in any way, and it’s intended to minimize Jews’ own tragedy and use it against them. Stop it already.

Are you denying that there is no genocide in Gaza?

No I don’t believe a genocide is occurring in Gaza. The difference between genocide and war is intent, and the requisite intent just isn’t there. I don’t deny that it’s a dire humanitarian crisis, and I (along with most Jews and Israelis) would like to see it end as soon as possible.

Maybe you should go listen to some of the Israeli politicians like Ben Gvir, Smotrich and even Netanyahu before you assume there is no intent. There's a reason why the ICC/ICJ have arrest warrants out for these criminals.

And no, most Israelis support ethnic cleansing/genocide.

I have seen the statements of Ben Gvir and Smotrich and agree that they are disgusting bigots (we have those in the US government too), but nothing they have said establishes intent to commit genocide. Nor does the actual military strategy of the IDF. Indifference to human suffering, perhaps. That’s a feature of every war, though.

Most Israelis DO NOT support ethnic cleansing/genocide, even if you’re defining that as support for the current war in Gaza. Not even most members of Likud (Netanyahu’s party) support it. A poll that came out a few days ago showed that roughly 70% of Israelis support ending the war in Gaza and signing an agreement for the release of hostages. Feel free to continue wildly speculating re: what Jews and Israelis think though. Don’t let facts get in your way.

By contrast, FYI, an overwhelming majority of people in both Gaza and the West Bank support the October 7th attack. There has been extensive polling on this.

Why does that shock you, after the decades of horrific abuse from Israel they’ve endured as homeless refugees in their own land?

Are you really going to pretend that the Israelis wouldn’t poll at near 100% support for outrageous terrorist attacks if they had to endure even 6 months of what Palestinians have dealt with for the past 75 years? Get real.

This is too easy. I don’t even have to push to get you people to say the quiet part out loud. Stop justifying terrorism. You should be on a list. JFC.

Lol … nice try, vile Zionist.

Again, name calling is not an argument. It’s a sign that you don’t have an argument.

Again, resorting to Nazi tactics like promoting the idea of creating lists with the names of individuals on them that you would like to marginalize or harm or eliminate altogether, that’s a big ol’ sign that you are enmeshed within a fascist culture hivemind that thinks and acts like the Nazi regime from 80 or whatever years ago. Gross.

Given that, I certainly don’t expect you to recognize any argument other than those that mirror your true believer, fantasyland Zionist propaganda.

Sorry, I’m fresh outta that …